EPTThat being said, that 12 min GG Broodmother game was glorious.
OG Discussion - Page 51
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nothingmuch
448 Posts
That being said, that 12 min GG Broodmother game was glorious. | ||
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MonkeyLarry
United States60 Posts
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spudde123
4814 Posts
On April 22 2018 14:06 Taf the Ghost wrote: In the first official matches since DAC, it appears Seb is playing pos 3. We'll see if that stays there, but they looked a whole lot better that way. They did this whenever they picked Leshrac also before this. s4 really likes that hero for whatever reason and is the one playing it for them no matter the lane it seems. On April 22 2018 23:14 MonkeyLarry wrote: It's hard to determine what will happen. I was thinking about who they could possibly pick up for their 5th and someone else brought it up before in the forum, but who would want to hop on the sinking ship? Who knows. To me it seems they will continue playing with 7mad and I don't expect them to pick up anyone before TI. If they were picking someone up, they would have already done it I think. They will probably qualify to pretty much all events because of how well they match up against all the EU teams, but hard to see them get super deep at TI. But we'll see I suppose | ||
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Kelefei2016
Papua New Guinea504 Posts
Take ahjit from Clutch Gaming, he is good. | ||
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arghyad1
India243 Posts
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spacecoke
Sweden112 Posts
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sCuMBaG
United Kingdom1144 Posts
Both wins against Secret were quite nice - a Visage getting out of control, and then a good old S4 Leshrac taking over the game. | ||
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nothingmuch
448 Posts
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
does he even remember how to squeeze farm out of the heroes played core that he plays. all it takes is one little slip and the entire momentum is gone and his heroes go to shit, no longer able to farm for the rest of the game. notail had a free game as morph this tournament, and he goes off and runs at people requiring him to strength morph or one of his supports sacrifice themselves to save him, ending in his team doing well but his hero being nothing like a morph who got a free lane. farm is cumulatively stacking. i really wonder what is so wrong with taking care of his heroes items/buildup earlier on so he can do much more later on. his team has more options, and they don't pick purely tempo heroes. | ||
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jack_knife
Germany343 Posts
notail can't go coach, because they have 7mad. notail can't go 3,4,5 because s4, jerax, fly. so OG has to play 4 protect 1 till end, unless notail or fly retires. they really shouldn't let ana go, looks like he was the best choice for OG. | ||
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nothingmuch
448 Posts
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
On May 08 2018 12:39 nothingmuch wrote: I realize that this is just hearsay and probably a crazy story perpetuated by Notail apologists but I've heard rumors that OG won 4 majors with Notail on position 1. Can anyone confirm this ? different Meta N0tail's just a bad fit as 1/2 in this patch era | ||
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nothingmuch
448 Posts
On May 08 2018 16:44 LemOn wrote: different Meta N0tail's just a bad fit as 1/2 in this patch era I think that's nonsense. I don't see anything that sets Notail when he's playing well apart from Matumbaman. Maybe Notail suffers more from a "need to help mah team" syndrome while Matu can be more selfish- but that could just as well be a team decision where to put the (farm)priorities. Even the hero pools are very similar. The main difference is that OG as a whole and Notail in particular isn't playing well consistently. And just like Matu when they fail, often times Notail looks the worst. The whole "OG plays 4protect1" thing is a pretty stupid myth because even in their Alch days Notail was on a hard carry most of the time- it wasn't Miracle that was playing the oh so notorious illusion heroes (unless you count alch). On top of that Ana and Miracle in particular were able to carry the team when Notail wasn't having a good game and while Seb is really surprising me with the quality of his play- he's not that playmaker carry. For the sake of argument- let's just say Notail and Matu are equal and compare the rest of OG and Liquid: Miracle is obviously a no contest against pretty much anyone besides Noone. Seb isn't really playing the role, and Reso failed hard at trying to. When you have someone that can just pull mind boggling (non meta-) Invoker performances out of the hat like that- it changes the entire team. His hero pool and playmaking capabilities are just out of this world. S4 and MC- I'd have to give this to MC too- wider hero pool and makes more happen on the map too. Hero pools also are quite different, since S4 seems to switch between 2 and 3- but other than Puck I don't see him on the big play/initiator heroes really. Jerax and GH- Jerax is still a god on Tusk and ES- but the rest of his hero pool doesn't look nearly as dangerous- granted the OMAGAD GH magic has receded a bit too, but I feel his pool is still bigger. It's a wash at best. Fly and Kuroky are hard to judge, but Flys drafting certainly seems weaker at the moment- maybe in part to his teams smaller hero pools? Fly is actually the one where I see the most meta game problems. He used to completely dominate with his defensive supports, but that is something that's really doesn't consistently fly (sorry) in the current meta. My point is that it is completely ridiculous to pinpoint a single player when the entire team isn't playing at the level required to be at the top (which, let's be honest is the only acceptable place for those 5). | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
On May 08 2018 18:16 nothingmuch wrote: I think that's nonsense. I don't see anything that sets Notail when he's playing well apart from Matumbaman. Maybe Notail suffers more from a "need to help mah team" syndrome while Matu can be more selfish- but that could just as well be a team decision where to put the (farm)priorities. Even the hero pools are very similar. The main difference is that OG as a whole and Notail in particular isn't playing well consistently. And just like Matu when they fail, often times Notail looks the worst. The whole "OG plays 4protect1" thing is a pretty stupid myth because even in their Alch days Notail was on a hard carry most of the time- it wasn't Miracle that was playing the oh so notorious illusion heroes (unless you count alch). On top of that Ana and Miracle in particular were able to carry the team when Notail wasn't having a good game and while Seb is really surprising me with the quality of his play- he's not that playmaker carry. For the sake of argument- let's just say Notail and Matu are equal and compare the rest of OG and Liquid: Miracle is obviously a no contest against pretty much anyone besides Noone. Seb isn't really playing the role, and Reso failed hard at trying to. When you have someone that can just pull mind boggling (non meta-) Invoker performances out of the hat like that- it changes the entire team. His hero pool and playmaking capabilities are just out of this world. S4 and MC- I'd have to give this to MC too- wider hero pool and makes more happen on the map too. Hero pools also are quite different, since S4 seems to switch between 2 and 3- but other than Puck I don't see him on the big play/initiator heroes really. Jerax and GH- Jerax is still a god on Tusk and ES- but the rest of his hero pool doesn't look nearly as dangerous- granted the OMAGAD GH magic has receded a bit too, but I feel his pool is still bigger. It's a wash at best. Fly and Kuroky are hard to judge, but Flys drafting certainly seems weaker at the moment- maybe in part to his teams smaller hero pools? Fly is actually the one where I see the most meta game problems. He used to completely dominate with his defensive supports, but that is something that's really doesn't consistently fly (sorry) in the current meta. My point is that it is completely ridiculous to pinpoint a single player when the entire team isn't playing at the level required to be at the top (which, let's be honest is the only acceptable place for those 5). I really like N0tail and think he is a good player, that has some strong areas as a player like excellent at micromanagement heroes and will items differently according to what game he plays. As you said it's a team game and the other members also have had difficulties. But after a good start of tournament he just looked tilted. Seems like after the laining phase, he just totally ignored farming trying to join every team fight, and even if it turns out succesfull at first he just contiuned to chase giving away so many kills out of position of the rest of the team to help. It looked to me like OG at the beginning of tournament had a plan to have N0tail more as 1 and seb 2. And has pretty good that way, then they changed plan with an Alch game for seb, and then it was downhill for that game onwards. Think its possible to have a bad tournament and even a year and comeback and play good again. So hope to see N0tail return to greatness again. Also noticed that OG looks better with Fly on heroes that can impact fight and have global presents like NP and AA. S4 and Jerax stepped up and played better then i seen in long time. | ||
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nothingmuch
448 Posts
On May 08 2018 18:58 Sapaio wrote: I really like N0tail and think he is a good player, that has some strong areas as a player like excellent at micromanagement heroes and will items differently according to what game he plays. As you said it's a team game and the other members also have had difficulties. But after a good start of tournament he just looked tilted. Seems like after the laining phase, he just totally ignored farming trying to join every team fight, and even if it turns out succesfull at first he just contiuned to chase giving away so many kills out of position of the rest of the team to help. It looked to me like OG at the beginning of tournament had a plan to have N0tail more as 1 and seb 2. And has pretty good that way, then they changed plan with an Alch game for seb, and then it was downhill for that game onwards. Think its possible to have a bad tournament and even a year and comeback and play good again. So hope to see N0tail return to greatness again. Also noticed that OG looks better with Fly on heroes that can impact fight and have global presents like NP and AA. S4 and Jerax stepped up and played better then i seen in long time. Yes, my point is that Notail wasn't playing well as opposed to him not working on position 1/patch related issues. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11446 Posts
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
they have alternative angles. they can master 5 on more conventional pos. 5 heroes, they can play even more conventional offlaners and "give" notail more priority. they could try and find a steady midlaner and develop new strategies according to their opponents, rather than having OG-meta drafts. or he can play his heroes better. i can almost certainly say that in similar situations in all games he plays, top carries squeeze more gold and XP out of their heroes than notail does. it's one thing to fight and do stuff, and it's another to start feeding and pushing back your entire team's timing and ability to take easy fights. there is a certain level of pride to having a good lane and delivering as though it were the case. rather than that, he plays midgame and in the now more than any other player. he will not look at 2 large items down the line, he will buy BKB or something similar, and go fight. if it works, they keep fighting when they can. recently at epicenter, teams buy back against them and they lose. or there's that will to play a game so well and crush your opponents so hard that they're forced to concede to a perfectly played game. outplaying in other words. i don't feel this drive while watching notail at all. you are the carry, the pos.1, and invariably a huge center of attention for the other team, not your offlaner who often is outscaling you. you're saying they won 4 majors with him playing 1? how many of those games were as an illusion hero when they were still particularly strong? he did not play 1 even in a majority of those games. he played 2, sometimes 3, and in bad games a 4 which worked well enough for certain wins on vengeful for instance. OG almost always loses with their offensive trilanes. notail plays his heroes like PL, LD rather goofy compared to many of the top pros and there are only very few cases where he is outplaying anymore. can you remember such a case with recent games? because i only remember back in boston and other majors playing lifestealer and armlet toggling. players are better now. you're right, the entire team needs to raise their level, but i think it starts with notail especially. even his onesided pubs do not look onesided. | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
Maybe they can find some young players to carry them and use the rest of this year to train. Keeping this roster is pointless. | ||
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Minishield
Italy145 Posts
On May 14 2018 21:46 NInoff wrote: We can discuss whatever we want, but the thing is OG need a good carry and they don't have one. Notail and Mad are mediocore at best. Sorry but those are the facts. They just can't do their job - can't kill anything. Not to mention the weird I run in to 5 heroes mode Mad does often. Notail always gets caught by the enemy ganks, and he often chooses bad positions during fights so he dies. Maybe they can find some young players to carry them and use the rest of this year to train. Keeping this roster is pointless. Yea their movements around the map and their decision making is really bad right now. In the Troll game vs Secret Mad just run alone into 5 ppl doing nothing, waisting bkb and dying. Notail always get caught in weird positions. It's months i'm saying this team doesnt work and they have to change something big, not just their position 2. They are not even trying it feels like, as i said Notail is already playing kind of the position 3 so why not try him there, movin Mad to 1 and S4 back to 2. | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On May 14 2018 23:31 Minishield wrote: Yea their movements around the map and their decision making is really bad right now. In the Troll game vs Secret Mad just run alone into 5 ppl doing nothing, waisting bkb and dying. Notail always get caught in weird positions. It's months i'm saying this team doesnt work and they have to change something big, not just their position 2. They are not even trying it feels like, as i said Notail is already playing kind of the position 3 so why not try him there, movin Mad to 1 and S4 back to 2. Mad can not carry. This wont work. To be honest they really had potential with resolution in the team ( The guy just won a minor, they also won .MDL Macau with him.). They had other issues. But they could beat anyone. Now they downgraded themselves, lost the chance ffor TI invite. and became a tier two team. Notail and Mad are better at support / offlane position - make space / save your carry and die kind of a hero. Unfortunateley they already have awesome people there. The N0tail, Fly Bromance is coming to an end, maybe it is for the best - look what happened after Puppey Kuro era ended - they founded two very very strong teams. | ||
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