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On May 14 2018 23:55 NInoff wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2018 23:31 Minishield wrote:On May 14 2018 21:46 NInoff wrote:
We can discuss whatever we want, but the thing is OG need a good carry and they don't have one. Notail and Mad are mediocore at best. Sorry but those are the facts. They just can't do their job - can't kill anything. Not to mention the weird I run in to 5 heroes mode Mad does often. Notail always gets caught by the enemy ganks, and he often chooses bad positions during fights so he dies.
Maybe they can find some young players to carry them and use the rest of this year to train. Keeping this roster is pointless. Yea their movements around the map and their decision making is really bad right now. In the Troll game vs Secret Mad just run alone into 5 ppl doing nothing, waisting bkb and dying. Notail always get caught in weird positions. It's months i'm saying this team doesnt work and they have to change something big, not just their position 2. They are not even trying it feels like, as i said Notail is already playing kind of the position 3 so why not try him there, movin Mad to 1 and S4 back to 2. Mad can not carry. This wont work. To be honest they really had potential with resolution in the team ( The guy just won a minor, they also won .MDL Macau with him.). They had other issues. But they could beat anyone. Now they downgraded themselves, lost the chance ffor TI invite. and became a tier two team. Notail and Mad are better at support / offlane position - make space / save your carry and die kind of a hero. Unfortunateley they already have awesome people there. The N0tail, Fly Bromance is coming to an end, maybe it is for the best - look what happened after Puppey Kuro era ended - they founded two very very strong teams.
Kuro and Puppey have nowhere near the friendship that Fly and Notail have. These two have been playing together for most of their Moba careers going back to HoN in 2010 iirc. Kuro and Puppey have played with other people way more than with each other. Also they already founded two very strong teams with each other- Secret 1.0 and Monkey business.
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Watched the vods of the games against Secret. Think N0tail laning has improved alot. But he just drops off so much in mid too late game, as he dies to much. Think some of it has to do with his play, but think the team should have a strategy to protect him more during farm with wards and safe place or a support nearby. If he is there main carry they should as a team do more for him to successful.
The teamfights often looks unorganized and separated.
I think OG really need a coach after Seb is playing with them.
Does anybody find it strange to watch Reso play mid VGJ.Storm so good. Seem like they could have tried that. Or moved S4 mid and Notail offlane.
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The problem lies in the team movements and coordination, when others team carries get ganked most of the times defensive teleports came from their teammates and a counter initiation - gank happens (and maybe it fails, but at least there is response). Yesterday in OG vs Secret games N0tail was repetetly ganked without getting help, it was like they let him die again and again, they could have tried to protect him. Imho this shows that they aren't on the same page, they had some games where they show great performance but most of the time it's painful to watch them.
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Games vs Mineski were good, Mad can carry if given enough space and Notail played pretty good on Kunkka. I feel like this style suit them more, Notail on a less farm intensive hero that can still scale pretty good in late game and has the potential to flash farm.
But i still think that a lot of their games revolve around Jerax and S4 having a good game, in game 1 the created so much space early game that Mineski never caught up to Slark farm.
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On May 15 2018 19:44 Minishield wrote:
Games vs Mineski were good, Mad can carry if given enough space and Notail played pretty good on Kunkka. I feel like this style suit them more, Notail on a less farm intensive hero that can still scale pretty good in late game and has the potential to flash farm.
But i still think that a lot of their games revolve around Jerax and S4 having a good game, in game 1 the created so much space early game that Mineski never caught up to Slark farm.
Playing couple of decent games is not something to be proud of. They are proffesional players, they will win occasionaly. This is not the OG we all love, and it will not be with this roster.
They had a lot of bad plays vs Infamous, especially game two, but couldn't lose the game, because opponents played worse. and they had a good draft.
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On May 15 2018 20:02 NInoff wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2018 19:44 Minishield wrote:
Games vs Mineski were good, Mad can carry if given enough space and Notail played pretty good on Kunkka. I feel like this style suit them more, Notail on a less farm intensive hero that can still scale pretty good in late game and has the potential to flash farm.
But i still think that a lot of their games revolve around Jerax and S4 having a good game, in game 1 the created so much space early game that Mineski never caught up to Slark farm. Playing couple of decent games is not something to be proud of. They are proffesional players, they will win occasionaly. This is not the OG we all love, and it will not be with this roster. They had a lot of bad plays vs Infamous, especially game two, but couldn't lose the game, because opponents played worse. and they had a good draft.
I didnt say im proud of those games, but they played well. I'm not sold on this team and i will not be if they don't change something big. Still if they do something good i have to aknowledge it.
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They obviously arent going to change the team before TI so I don't really get the anger
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0/7/5
0/8/1
Roflmao
Yall wont win anything with this clown
Unless yall get a top 5 core players to carry this clown like miracle and ana
User was warned for this post
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On May 16 2018 16:05 CavalierDota wrote:
0/7/5
0/8/1
Roflmao
Yall wont win anything with this clown
Unless yall get a top 5 core players to carry this clown like miracle and ana
This "clown" is one of the highest winning players in all of Dota and got voted "Best carry of the year" on this very site not that long ago. Who are you again, other than on your way out ?
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N0tail made Miracle and Ana
but just got nerfed into oblivion with the much faster tempo patch
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I don't buy the patch excuse. Notail has been able to perform at the highest level over countless patches, multiple roles and 2 different mobas. There is something else going on. Maybe he is/they are just not as motivated/ burned out or there are some internal issues beyond Reso.
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OG's play style that won them those majors is obsolete. It doesn't help that 7mad is their mid player.
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Resolution must be so happy today.
I only watched the first game. In that 1 Notail's DR was at 6th position on networth list right from end of laning stage, and I think in the end he fell below some supports as well. I honestly don't think a team with Notail on pos 1 can win anything anymore. He just looks to be in a much lower tier compared to the other carries that notable teams have. Actually, Ce6 has looked better to me as a core than Notail since he started playing.
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This seems like an Alliance issue - you got a playstyle that won you many games. But it doesn't work anymore as now there are many teams with very good understanding of the game, and they just find solution to your similar drafts. So you have to rely on individual performance - and that lacks especially in the core department.
There are no Suma1ls. NoOnes, Miracles that can win you the game just by a couple of plays, seems the meta is changing and the #1 sacrificing for your mid doesn't work that well either. Even Matumbaman played a lot of farm heavy carries.
Also im starting to think that there are internal issues as well, as their shot calling in game got way worse, and sometimes they seem lost, and that was not the case at all.
Even Jerax haven't carried a game in a while, his rotations don't work as well as before. Hell i remember being so frustrated when he left Liquid. I was so scared that it will be very hard to find a replacement. Turns out GH outperformed him, but still - Jerax is a world class #4, and he is underperforming. Something is seriously wrong here...
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I think they just don't know what to do, as NInoff said there's some problem in their shot calling. Almost everygame they smoke without a clear objective, don't hit their timings, play too slow when they can set the tempo, give away too much to the enemy and end up getting behind. Not to mention their team fight is just average.
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Meh, I've been a fan of Notail and Fly since I first saw them in HoN. It's been up and down all the time. They completely dominated HoN for a fair while, sure, but in Dota 2 they were downright mediocre. At least in terms of results.
Notail and Fly, to me, ARE the team. Doesn't really matter if they're flying the banner of Fnatic, Secret, Monkey Business or OG.
People seem to often forget how even a top 8 finish at TI3 was impressive for Fnatic. Then they didn't even make it out of groups in TI 4. Notail was laughed out of TI5 under Cloud9 with people saying he was washed up and wouldn't achieve much ever again. Fly, that same year, had to prove his captain abilities by getting Complexity to a respectable showing.
Secret 1.0 was quite probably my favorite team ever. Kuroky on pos1, Notail on some dopeass Elder Titan and Fly putting in an impressively solid performance on the offlane.
The OG that won 4 majors were a fucking joy to watch, don't get me wrong, but I never fully expected it to last. They had a solid understanding of how they wanted to play, how to execute that style of play and performed. Before that they were mediocre and they're mediocre now.
They have the potential to return to form, I'm sure, and I'll keep rooting for those two until then, no matter how long that takes.
And honestly? I actually somewhat enjoy watching them struggle. My only real fear is that, just like Dota 2 fans, Dota 2 players* are so focused on results that they won't be able to find solid players to build a team around again. Or maybe this time the Notail/Fly partnership is finally going to crack.
But that's not today, and won't be before TI. Until then, I'm all in on these boys.
*Side note: unlike fans, at least it makes sense for players to be focused on the short term. What with the money being so top-heavy, the longevity of the game in a financially viable sense being so uncertain.
Fans' tendency to be so flip-floppy, bandwagony, and so quick to turn and bash the players they claim to like without even a hint at understanding is... well, just tedious at this point.
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Yeah, they're great people, and i like every single one of those personalities, damn, notail is one of the greatest dota players ever. But that's not the point, the point is: they're awful and obviously need to fix something, so we are discussing this something
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On May 18 2018 02:49 Pontual wrote:
Yeah, they're great people, and i like every single one of those personalities, damn, notail is one of the greatest dota players ever. But that's not the point, the point is: they're awful and obviously need to fix something, so we are discussing this something
Define awful.
This tendency to see every team outside of the top4 as the worst teams ever is just deplorable.
They're frustrating to watch, that's for sure. They're a few seconds off-sync and it makes them look really fucking stupid a lot of the time. Notail goes off and dies alone in corners of the map you didn't even think possible but that's sort of always been a "quirk" of his.
I just don't see how they're "awful". In the games I watch they're RIGHT THERE. Just on the cusp of breaking through into greatness. And then they wait a few seconds too long, are just a bit too dis-organized and it all falls apart.
When this happens as much as it does it's a problem, for sure.
I'm not saying they don't need to fix anything but all this hyperbole and constant desire for kicking players is just not very interesting to read.
This very page someone types out Notail's KDA stats and uses that as basis for getting rid of him. He was warned, sure, but it's not too far off from how I perceive a lot of people's criticisms.
KDA can be useful but not as the basis of analysis, rather a prompt of said analysis.
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They're obviously not awful, just not great atm. Isn't it more that it´s looking like this OG won't reach top 4 again?
Many teams shake things up after a while, with teams like LGD or VG.j storm (but not this good,lol) you could kinda see they were getting better and better. I just don't see them being at the top with this iteration, which to some extent seems to be the case with EG and Navi as well, but I don't really know anything, just hunches
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I think these rapid patches are hurting OG more than the top teams. They dont seem quite as flexible as some of the other teams like Liquid, Secret, VP etc
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EPT
