EPTNa`Vi Discussion - Page 55
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Faruko
Chile34172 Posts
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Pomza
45 Posts
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
On January 16 2015 05:15 FHDH wrote: Team looked pretty good vs. the favorites (for whatever reason?) HellRaisers. . I believe Hellraisers were the favorites cause they won the European DAC qualifier. I think they had an easier bracket but not positive from memory about that. | ||
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Faruko
Chile34172 Posts
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goody153
44237 Posts
On January 16 2015 05:15 FHDH wrote: Team looked pretty good vs. the favorites (for whatever reason?) HellRaisers. Dendi's Magnus continues to be pretty dangerous (career stats: http://www.dotabuff.com/esports/players/70388657 ). Pairing it with XBOCT's beloved manfighting right-clickers is working pretty well. It's narrow but if they can get one thing working for them they can maybe stop being so bad at competitive Dota. Of course, beating T2 teams at a LAN used to be a no-brainer for Na'Vi. How sad. tbh we can't even credit that as a credible win since HR didn't have the whole roster and Solo who stood didn't play that well. a win is a win though dendi mag looks like how good s4 and ar1se is on magnus right now .. also xboct troll man EDIT: it's much worse it's their captain/drafter who they have a stand.in for On January 16 2015 08:46 the bear jew wrote: I believe Hellraisers were the favorites cause they won the European DAC qualifier. I think they had an easier bracket but not positive from memory about that. empire were the favorites i think .. they are looking the best in CIS before DAC qualifiers VPP/HR were along the ones that everyone thought would win | ||
Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 16 2015 08:46 the bear jew wrote: I believe Hellraisers were the favorites cause they won the European DAC qualifier. I think they had an easier bracket but not positive from memory about that. HR were in the hard bracket. | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
I don't know why I ever believe this team might be turning a corner. | ||
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MyrMindservant
695 Posts
On January 17 2015 03:34 FHDH wrote: Yeah so just got done watching the Empire games and lol. I don't know why I ever believe this team might be turning a corner. Losing one series, no matter how badly, does not mean anything. VP.P lost just as badly to NiP today, every player/team can have a bad day or a bad streak. Yes, I know that this is not the only series Na'Vi lost lately, but they have also started to look better in some of their recent games and even eliminated Empire in the DAC Qualifier. Personally, I'm going to hold my judgement until the DAC lan. | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
On January 17 2015 08:04 MyrMindservant wrote: Losing one series, no matter how badly, does not mean anything. VP.P lost just as badly to NiP today, every player/team can have a bad day or a bad streak. Yes, I know that this is not the only series Na'Vi lost lately, but they have also started to look better in some of their recent games and even eliminated Empire in the DAC Qualifier. Personally, I'm going to hold my judgement until the DAC lan. Yeahhhhhhhhhh How many times are we going to "withhold our judgment" in this thread. Sorry. They are terrible now and show no signs of getting better than that random CIS team that takes series off of top tier teams. It happens. It doesn't make them good. Right now, they are bad. Some magic might happen that could change that. But that is a fair assessment of their current state. Just flat out bad. | ||
Tephus
Cascadia1753 Posts
Navi not competing in 3/4 tournaments announced for 2015 (baring dac), and MLG looks shaky. Bad signs... (Alienware Cup, Dotapit, Weplay, and maybe mlg) | ||
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deadmau
960 Posts
On January 17 2015 03:34 FHDH wrote: Yeah so just got done watching the Empire games and lol. I don't know why I ever believe this team might be turning a corner. the funny thing is you were the one who originally who held out hope that things were trending up for Na'Vi, and wanted to withhold judgement, when most people know they are clearly shit and have been for awhile. honestly i dunno how i can cheer for them without Puppey in there. He wasn't the star or anything, nothing crazy, but I felt like he embodied that team somewhat maybe due to him being the drafter/captain a lot. He was sort of their compass? Without someone to fill his shoes, and point them in a direction, just not fun to watch. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On January 17 2015 03:34 FHDH wrote: Yeah so just got done watching the Empire games and lol. I don't know why I ever believe this team might be turning a corner. Don't be mad, we all want to see some of them succeed but not all you want will happen. Well, I guess we can say the same for every CIS team at this point. Empire losing to NaVi at DAC, HR and PR getting eliminated right off the bat in SL11 (being them in the finals for DAC qualifier). Right now I feel like VP.P, Empire, HR and PR are all at the same level. Showing some badass performances here and sucking so bad there. Soo.... I don't know guys, if I were you I would not hop on the CIS rollercoaster this year and just enjoy Dota2 as much as you can without actually caring so much about who you cheer for. In my honest opinion, I didn't like EG because they were so emo and sad, NaVi is playing so bad with some sparks here and there, Fnatic is no more, C9 I don't know, I don't feel them so much, the other CIS teams I never cared a lot about. I began to enjoy TS because of Kuro and N0tail but after the rooster change I don't really appreciate them so much. So, I guess as much as I said, I will just enjoy N0tail's plays at C9, some chinese badass moves, and hope for Dendi and Funnik to get some love and find either better teammates or team. On January 17 2015 08:44 deadmau wrote: the funny thing is you were the one who originally who held out hope that things were trending up for Na'Vi, and wanted to withhold judgement, when most people know they are clearly shit and have been for awhile. honestly i dunno how i can cheer for them without Puppey in there. He wasn't the star or anything, nothing crazy, but I felt like he embodied that team somewhat maybe due to him being the drafter/captain a lot. He was sort of their compass? Without someone to fill his shoes, and point them in a direction, just not fun to watch. Man, I don't know, Puppey was the face of NaVi for the successful period of time, as much as he was the face of failure, but not everyone wants to realize it. When you find your "favourite player" it is so hard to accept when he make mistakes and it is easier to blame other. When the meta changed and Ppy began to draft shit plus Xboct's feeding tendencies it is far easier to flame him instead of Ppy. But remember that even Ppy recognized his so called movements were off, so he is at least as guilty as the other 4 if not more (the weight of carrying his team to victory through draft is heavier than making magic happens by perfect execution with a losing composition). Xboct is the target for flame because he is the thrower and not Dendi the playmaker. Xboct is just polemic, think of it this way: As far as Dota's meta fit Xboct's playstyle he rocks and when not then he feeds, it is his playstyle, it is like expecting RTZ not to go emo after any stupid minimal thing, no sir that will never be so. After so much time we see Troll once again as a good carry and Xboct getting the best of him (just an exaggeration) and Dendi doing really good stuff on Magnus. Two games where they don't get any of those heroes and they play shit. | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
puppey was one fng or goblak are not. | ||
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NInoff
Bulgaria1105 Posts
On January 17 2015 19:38 Racket wrote: Don't be mad, we all want to see some of them succeed but not all you want will happen. Well, I guess we can say the same for every CIS team at this point. Empire losing to NaVi at DAC, HR and PR getting eliminated right off the bat in SL11 (being them in the finals for DAC qualifier). Right now I feel like VP.P, Empire, HR and PR are all at the same level. Showing some badass performances here and sucking so bad there. Soo.... I don't know guys, if I were you I would not hop on the CIS rollercoaster this year and just enjoy Dota2 as much as you can without actually caring so much about who you cheer for. In my honest opinion, I didn't like EG because they were so emo and sad, NaVi is playing so bad with some sparks here and there, Fnatic is no more, C9 I don't know, I don't feel them so much, the other CIS teams I never cared a lot about. I began to enjoy TS because of Kuro and N0tail but after the rooster change I don't really appreciate them so much. So, I guess as much as I said, I will just enjoy N0tail's plays at C9, some chinese badass moves, and hope for Dendi and Funnik to get some love and find either better teammates or team. Man, I don't know, Puppey was the face of NaVi for the successful period of time, as much as he was the face of failure, but not everyone wants to realize it. When you find your "favourite player" it is so hard to accept when he make mistakes and it is easier to blame other. When the meta changed and Ppy began to draft shit plus Xboct's feeding tendencies it is far easier to flame him instead of Ppy. But remember that even Ppy recognized his so called movements were off, so he is at least as guilty as the other 4 if not more (the weight of carrying his team to victory through draft is heavier than making magic happens by perfect execution with a losing composition). Xboct is the target for flame because he is the thrower and not Dendi the playmaker. Xboct is just polemic, think of it this way: As far as Dota's meta fit Xboct's playstyle he rocks and when not then he feeds, it is his playstyle, it is like expecting RTZ not to go emo after any stupid minimal thing, no sir that will never be so. After so much time we see Troll once again as a good carry and Xboct getting the best of him (just an exaggeration) and Dendi doing really good stuff on Magnus. Two games where they don't get any of those heroes and they play shit. Sometimes Puppey failed the team, but NaVi NEVER got humiliated. Now they feel the humiliation very very often. I mean Lets be honest, can you imagine NaVi getting stomped by MVP last year? Not to mention that this is going to be the first time for NaVi not getting the invite for TI, and it is not looking good for the qualifiers, i hope that they can get their things together. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On January 17 2015 22:00 NInoff wrote: Sometimes Puppey failed the team, but NaVi NEVER got humiliated. Now they feel the humiliation very very often. I mean Lets be honest, can you imagine NaVi getting stomped by MVP last year? Not to mention that this is going to be the first time for NaVi not getting the invite for TI, and it is not looking good for the qualifiers, i hope that they can get their things together. Yea, I agree, leaving players (former and current) aside. NaVi has never faced such position, and now they are always going further down, with some games/series showing a good overall performance. I am not defending anyone. I just wanted to state that people tends to strengthen their opinion (usually off the mark in my eyes) based on two separated events, even if those events are related to the topic. Making statements of the caliber "Xboct sucks and always sucked" is the same as "Ppy never sucked he is not to blame". Both made mistakes, same with Dendi and Kuro and Funnik. Time has passed, NaVi is not Ppy+Kuro+Funnik+Xboct+Dendi, we just need to stop comparing any rooster to its best rooster, its not the smartest thing to do. After this loss I guess ZG should make his move even if it means losing a TI5 invite. I find better for NaVi not to go to TI that getting rekt and humiliated. But "Sponsors" you know? It is always about that, so.... | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On January 17 2015 21:59 LemOn wrote: sit seems obvious that it's about a good captain that can handle these guys puppey was one fng or goblak are not. How many captains will it take for you to realise that it isnt the captains fault or drafts they have played so far. 2 out of the 3 current cores need a new challenge so all three will get hungry for succes again. Just build a new team around 1 coreplayer and atleast vanskor and navi will be topnotch once more. | ||
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Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On January 17 2015 22:33 Racket wrote: Yea, I agree, leaving players (former and current) aside. NaVi has never faced such position, and now they are always going further down, with some games/series showing a good overall performance. I am not defending anyone. I just wanted to state that people tends to strengthen their opinion (usually off the mark in my eyes) based on two separated events, even if those events are related to the topic. Making statements of the caliber "Xboct sucks and always sucked" is the same as "Ppy never sucked he is not to blame". Both made mistakes, same with Dendi and Kuro and Funnik. Time has passed, NaVi is not Ppy+Kuro+Funnik+Xboct+Dendi, we just need to stop comparing any rooster to its best rooster, its not the smartest thing to do. After this loss I guess ZG should make his move even if it means losing a TI5 invite. I find better for NaVi not to go to TI that getting rekt and humiliated. But "Sponsors" you know? It is always about that, so.... From the organization's and the player's perspective, it's certainly better to go to TI, even if your results aren't good. Also as for roster changes, who do you want to poach? With TI invites coming and Valve's absurdly vague standards for inviting, I suspect players don't want to risk losing an invite by leaving their teams, especially since it's not as if Navi's a lock for the invite, so you're left with attempting to recruit free agents or players on teams who aren't in the running for a slot(so no VPP, Empire, or HR players). | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
On January 17 2015 22:51 Elyvilon wrote: From the organization's and the player's perspective, it's certainly better to go to TI, even if your results aren't good. Also as for roster changes, who do you want to poach? With TI invites coming and Valve's absurdly vague standards for inviting, I suspect players don't want to risk losing an invite by leaving their teams, especially since it's not as if Navi's a lock for the invite, so you're left with attempting to recruit free agents or players on teams who aren't in the running for a slot(so no VPP, Empire, or HR players). Well, I think it will only get better for teams in general when Dota reaches a the state of: . Every team has a coach . Every team has more than one player for each role . The coaches have the ability to sit some and call some depending on their performances and playstyle/hero pool With this Dota's teams will expand their reach to a gross spectrum of possibilities, be it strategy, execution or even level of performance. Until then we are bound to cheer for players instead of teams and flame whoever seems guilty at the time. Given this, if I were ZG, I would hire hungry players and a coach, no one tied to NaVi in any way. Give him free pass to whatever he wants to try and if that turns into Xboct and Dendi leaving, so be it. Of course, given ZG's relation with Xboct and the risk of losing TI invite, that won't happen. I am speaking my mind, I don't have any connections to any player nor do I run a team, so I don't think ZG will think even 5% alike. | ||
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gulati
United States2241 Posts
this is tier 3 behavior to be quite frank; not acceptable. fuck the nostalgia of dendi/xboct, just cut it all and rebuild. you have nothing to lose if you're getting knocked out from this SL this early | ||
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zdfgucker
China594 Posts
On January 17 2015 22:33 Racket wrote: I am not defending anyone. I just wanted to state that people tends to strengthen their opinion (usually off the mark in my eyes) based on two separated events, even if those events are related to the topic. Making statements of the caliber "Xboct sucks and always sucked" is the same as "Ppy never sucked he is not to blame". Both made mistakes, same with Dendi and Kuro and Funnik. Time has passed, NaVi is not Ppy+Kuro+Funnik+Xboct+Dendi, we just need to stop comparing any rooster to its best rooster, its not the smartest thing to do. ZG would have been wise to boost Xboct a long time ago. That dude either does not practice much or simply is too far behind for other reasons. Puppy was unfortunately hit by the change of meta which is why his drafts sometimes were poor. But it's not like Dendi and others liked a meta of <20 minute games. Xboct has been feeding, throwing and making dubious plays for a really long time. Honestly, had Navi kept Kuro and Puppy and just booted Xboct (plus maybe Dendi if he really can't play without Xboct) and replaced him, the team would be in such a good position. Instead, ehh, everyone (Navi fans and probably officials, too) was like "yeah, just give them time". They're not at EG (when has EG thrown last) level but they will get there eventually. Glad Puppy and Kuro got out. Feel bad for Dendi and funn1k, the others I barely feel attached to. | ||
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