EPTNa`Vi Discussion - Page 54
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Tyrrhus
Netherlands52 Posts
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
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EnumaAvalon
Philippines3613 Posts
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On January 12 2015 00:27 FHDH wrote: That's really all he needs to do for his part as well. There are better carries out there but he is fine at his position if he stops doing XBOCT things. His farming is, as it pretty much always been, on par with world's bests and it really showed in the DAC qualifiers. Even in games where Na'Vi had been losing early game hard (which is like most of them, lol) he's been sitting at the top of networth 15-20 mins in, and just kept grinding away a bigger and bigger lead over the oppositions' cores despite having much less vision and space to do so. I kind of feel like Na'Vi would do well to draft stuff like Spectre or AM more often for him really, since his ability to find farm is pretty much unmatched amongst Western teams. | ||
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goody153
44237 Posts
On January 12 2015 07:02 Salazarz wrote: His farming is, as it pretty much always been, on par with world's bests and it really showed in the DAC qualifiers. Even in games where Na'Vi had been losing early game hard (which is like most of them, lol) he's been sitting at the top of networth 15-20 mins in, and just kept grinding away a bigger and bigger lead over the oppositions' cores despite having much less vision and space to do so. I kind of feel like Na'Vi would do well to draft stuff like Spectre or AM more often for him really, since his ability to find farm is pretty much unmatched amongst Western teams. tbh farming isn't a problem when you are getting all the space in the world which happened on the series na'vi played on DAC also especially when you get heroes that the only job is to farm stacks like medusa | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
Not going to be satisfied until Dendi is playing for a world-class team again though. So it's possible temporary reprieve from awfulness is counterproductive to that end. We'll see. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
On January 12 2015 08:28 FHDH wrote: Pointless to try and take XBOCT's skill at farming from him, even Na'Vi haters know it is one of his strengths. Definitely need to draft around it though. 4P1 has been working for VPp, maybe it can work for Na'Vi. I don't like it, but I can live with it if they stop being so fucking embarrassing. Not going to be satisfied until Dendi is playing for a world-class team again though. So it's possible temporary reprieve from awfulness is counterproductive to that end. We'll see. Is that just because you like Dendi or because you think he's better than his teammates? Dendi was once arguably the best player in the world and he's still good, but by pro standards he's nothing incredible currently. In my view, in the European scene Resolution and s4 are better, but whatever exact ranking you go by there are a bunch of mids around his level. Na'Vi are almost certainly worse than two European teams right now (C9 and Secret) and in the mix with VPP, VP, Empire, HR, Alliance and PR. In the past 6 months, I don't think Dendi has shown himself to be far above the average for mids on those teams - I mean, if I had to pick Fata or Dendi, I'd pick Dendi, but it's not like I'd expect much difference. Or maybe you think Dendi is just playing acceptably rather than brilliantly at the moment because his team is bad and he's unmotivated and with better teammates he'd excel, which (though I disagree) I guess is a reasonable position. | ||
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Alcor
Italy137 Posts
On January 12 2015 22:53 FuzzyJAM wrote: Is that just because you like Dendi or because you think he's better than his teammates? Dendi was once arguably the best player in the world and he's still good, but by pro standards he's nothing incredible currently. In my view, in the European scene Resolution and s4 are better, but whatever exact ranking you go by there are a bunch of mids around his level. Na'Vi are almost certainly worse than two European teams right now (C9 and Secret) and in the mix with VPP, VP, Empire, HR, Alliance and PR. In the past 6 months, I don't think Dendi has shown himself to be far above the average for mids on those teams - I mean, if I had to pick Fata or Dendi, I'd pick Dendi, but it's not like I'd expect much difference. Or maybe you think Dendi is just playing acceptably rather than brilliantly at the moment because his team is bad and he's unmotivated and with better teammates he'd excel, which (though I disagree) I guess is a reasonable position. Can you tell us the last time you saw dendi lose mid lane against one of the "tier 2" european teams? i don't remember a single episode in the past few months to be honest... Dendi won't be the player he was some time ago, but to say that there are a bunch of players like him it's an objective understatement. Imho, atm you can't estimate Dendi's ability based on what happens after the laning stage, because the team has serious coordination issues. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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bagels21
United States4357 Posts
On January 13 2015 00:21 Alcor wrote: Can you tell us the last time you saw dendi lose mid lane against one of the "tier 2" european teams? i don't remember a single episode in the past few months to be honest... Dendi won't be the player he was some time ago, but to say that there are a bunch of players like him it's an objective understatement. Imho, atm you can't estimate Dendi's ability based on what happens after the laning stage, because the team has serious coordination issues. Well if you count HR and Empire, he's lost mid before to them, but on topic, Dendi is still probably at top 5 mid in the west, but as many have stated, the skill gap has closed and Na'Vi defining advantages (drafting, flexibility, and teamfighting) either don't exist, or have shrank dramatically. Na'Vi still wins games with the huge teamfight ults, but often times you see them do that shit they did against PR yesterday lol | ||
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Alcor
Italy137 Posts
On January 13 2015 03:10 bagels21 wrote: Well if you count HR and Empire, he's lost mid before to them, but on topic, Dendi is still probably at top 5 mid in the west, but as many have stated, the skill gap has closed and Na'Vi defining advantages (drafting, flexibility, and teamfighting) either don't exist, or have shrank dramatically. Na'Vi still wins games with the huge teamfight ults, but often times you see them do that shit they did against PR yesterday lol yesterday wasn't a day to judge na'vi with... they came from a day ended at 5 in the morning, with the stress of gaining a place for china. and they played the last series against Alliance with that 70 min game 1... the day after to get a better result of what they had in hands already, they had to win 2 series to get first place in their physical conditions... nonetheless they were good enough to take 1 game from pr anyway, and for me this is already a great success, given na'vi latest performances... | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
As a fan of Dendi's I kinda feel like I'm in a Suck for Luck kind of mode. I just want things to be bad enough some real change is motivated. If it has been already, great. | ||
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Bisu-Fan
Russian Federation3336 Posts
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goody153
44237 Posts
Phobos(arguably), rtz( he doesn't play mid a lot aside from occasional aggressive carry like morph/pa or dual lanes) Yah dendi still pretty good if we are talking about the west | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
Also as far as winning his lane goes, Dendi tends to do more with less than just about anybody. Even in TI4 if he was getting any help at all it was failing, meanwhile the other team would get rotations in all the time. He gets even less help now and even when ganks work he keeps the farm in his advantage pretty regularly. I frequently think people who doubt Dendi at mid don't actually watch him play. They just see the splices of his games that the caster will give them and apply no critical thought to his performance in context. That's not even to go into his playmaking ability, which is still top-tier. | ||
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Racket
3023 Posts
Its like in football, you see Messi in Barcelona and in Argentine and he does not play at the same level. Same goes for him, that is my guess. | ||
Tephus
Cascadia1753 Posts
Also of note: Currently not in Dotapit 3 (one TBA slot still available for europe) and not in the Weplay season 3 retry. | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
On January 14 2015 04:54 Tephus wrote: I feel like DAC (and I guess Starladder now) is now or never for the current Navi squad. They seem to be playing with a bit more fire than usual, and there was that ZeroGrav statement about the team needing to perform by around now. Also of note: Currently not in Dotapit 3 (one TBA slot still available for europe) and not in the Weplay season 3 retry. I thought the TBA slot was already announced for Empire. I did notice their conspicuous absence. Not sure if by choice or not. | ||
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Murkinlol
United States366 Posts
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
Of course, beating T2 teams at a LAN used to be a no-brainer for Na'Vi. How sad. | ||
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