EPTThe most likely scenario to me is that EG places in the top3 and continues with the same lineup until TI.
Evil Geniuses Discussion - Page 73
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spudde123
4814 Posts
The most likely scenario to me is that EG places in the top3 and continues with the same lineup until TI. | ||
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scorpkx
Australia19 Posts
On February 20 2016 18:44 Danzo wrote: So anyone's thoughts on EG having a roster change after Shanghai? I feel like something just seems off with this team right now. I can possibly see a Sumail kick coming soon if he starts under performing some more. you know i thought about that as well. sumail hasn't been as high impact as he once was but i think that's more so to do with the fact that EG's playstyle has changed with rtz on carry and fear on position 4. i think your judging sumail on some pretty high standards here which i don't think qualify for a kick (he is arguably still one of the top 3 mid players in the world right now). Overall i think the teams coordination in teamfights is what is hindering them at the moment (if your brave enough go back and watch the two groupstage matches of MDL against OG, it literally made me nauseous). but again EG still haven't reached the potential we know they are capable of and they are still placing top 3 at tournaments. You also have to consider that of all the teams going to a tournament EG is the single least (if at all) underestimated team at the event. NO ONE underestimates EG, teams could underestimate Alliance or Ehome or OG or Secret but no one is stupid enough to go up against EG without thoroughly studying them beforehand (fly said this on his stream after OG won the frankfurt major and someone asked him about EG's performance). that is a lot of pressure and i think EG have handled it well for a really long time. it is also why i don't think they will win shanghai but still get top 3. I don't think we will see a kick after shanghai even if EG get bottom 8. the team is just too stable to let a single bad placement determine their future especially after looking so strong for so long. I think a disappointing performance at shanghai will only drive EG to work harder for the spring major and TI rather than change their roster. | ||
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Gaial
United States313 Posts
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lolnoty
United States7166 Posts
If anything, I see him getting better as he gets older and gets better at evaluating risk. EG is only likely to want a kick if someone's attitude/mood is consistently a detriment to them at tournaments. That's all we have to go on because EG has only really kicked 1 player in the last 2+ years (if we consider Mason a standin). Both aui/mason reasons were team chemistry oriented. Ignoring that sumail owns and I don't agree that he's underperforming at all: what NA mids are they going to get? RTZ is a carry mid and I'm not sure that works in this meta. He hasn't played tempo mids since before SADBOYS. When they needed a tempo mid in EG with him mid, it went to Fear, Mason, or Universe. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
But yeah i can't see them kicking suma1l at all cuz he is still very good and young, tough few months bit of an issue. | ||
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yookstah
Australia655 Posts
On February 21 2016 11:53 lolnoty wrote: Sumail owns. He suffers from meme'rs that focus on when he dies from taking a risk so they can spam SUFAIL LOL, when other mids die or get fucked up in lane just as much if not more but they don't have sick meme's for people to focus on. If anything, I see him getting better as he gets older and gets better at evaluating risk. EG is only likely to want a kick if someone's attitude/mood is consistently a detriment to them at tournaments. That's all we have to go on because EG has only really kicked 1 player in the last 2+ years (if we consider Mason a standin). Both aui/mason reasons were team chemistry oriented. Ignoring that sumail owns and I don't agree that he's underperforming at all: what NA mids are they going to get? RTZ is a carry mid and I'm not sure that works in this meta. He hasn't played tempo mids since before SADBOYS. When they needed a tempo mid in EG with him mid, it went to Fear, Mason, or Universe. Artour could probably easily and quickly adapt to playing different ('tempo') mids, so I don't think that'd be a problem. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
And a massive part of EG's standard strategy involves saccing Sumail and Universe and trusting them to do well enough anyway. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
he is just as often placed in the top-priority for farm for various parts of the game in order to hit item timings. it all depends on what their plan is and what hero they give him. if the tournament meta favors getting an enchantress over a beastmaster, void, or anyone else, he'll get farm. else if he's sandking for instance, or even bat, he'll get the time to farm anyway. | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
On February 21 2016 16:15 nanaoei wrote: where does saccing universe come into this? he is just as often placed in the top-priority for farm for various parts of the game in order to hit item timings. it all depends on what their plan is and what hero they give him. if the tournament meta favors getting an enchantress over a beastmaster, void, or anyone else, he'll get farm. else if he's sandking for instance, or even bat, he'll get the time to farm anyway. Probably he means saccing them in the laning stage, not later on | ||
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scorpkx
Australia19 Posts
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bluzi
4703 Posts
They are doing as best as can be expected from a tier 1 team with the talent pool they have , if anything i would say they are over achieving due to hard work and team spirit , they are no way near to the individual skill cap the Secert dream team had and they out do them (you can all go back to the days before they came to EG and realise that each of them is a good player but aside from Fear no one was a Star). | ||
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scorpkx
Australia19 Posts
On February 21 2016 16:33 bluzi wrote: I don't mind the Sumail bashing (he does not deserve it but whatever) , but ppl here are delusional if they think EG are so ahead of the game that replacing Sumail is a insta TI win , doing a b2b TI`s is REALLY hard and they are not that much better then the rest of the field , in any given day they can lose a BO3 or 2 and be out of a big tourney , would i put them as #1 contenders , sure without a doubt , but do i think they are coming in as Alliance did in 2013 NO WAY. They are doing as best as can be expected from a tier 1 team with the talent pool they have , if anything i would say they are over achieving due to hard work and team spirit , they are no way near to the individual skill cap the Secert dream team had and they out do them (you can all go back to the days before they came to EG and realise that each of them is a good player but aside from Fear no one was a Star). Lol how does one respond to this... the logic is so overwhelming... "but ppl here are delusional if they think EG are so ahead of the game that replacing Sumail is a insta TI win" - i don't think anyone has said that, were all discussing whether kicking sumail would help or hinder EG's chances of repeating their TI win and many of us think the latter is more likely, say what you will about the kid but he definitely has skill and can definitely play at the top tier. "in any given day they can lose a BO3 or 2 and be out of a big tourney" - if that day is the last day of a tourney then yes i would agree because so far that seems to be the only day EG loose any given bo3 or bo5 to be a out of tourney. "they are not that much better then the rest of the field" - i think its pretty safe to say EG is top 3 and has been for a very long time. Even on an off day EG is still better than most T1 teams. "but do i think they are coming in as Alliance did in 2013 NO WAY" - fucking sensitive alliance fans...all i will say is WHO CARES if they aren't "coming in" like 2013 alliance, for almost 2 years EG has been a top 3 team and even got 3rd at TI4 with a fucking STAND-IN. if alliance can manage to get into the playoffs of at least one other TI outside of TI3 then we can start comparing the two. "They are doing as best as can be expected from a tier 1 team with the talent pool they have" - EVERYONE even EG's players admit they are playing like shit despite their good results, they all say they haven't reached their full potential yet so i doubt some internet random is going to reveal to all of us what EG's potential truly is. "if anything i would say they are over achieving due to hard work and team spirit" - at this point i think your just trolling if you really think EG is overachieving. " they are no way near to the individual skill cap the Secert dream team had and they out do them (you can all go back to the days before they came to EG and realise that each of them is a good player but aside from Fear no one was a Star)" All i can say at this point is who cares about individual skilled team or all-star teams. if anything DK and Secret 2.0 proved that all-star teams are just teams with ego's and big targets on their backs full of players that are all individually skilled but don't necessarily mesh well together and fall apart during big moments. As an dota fan i want a team that consistently stays relevant and provides me with some of the best and highest standard of dota to watch as well as likeable and skilled players. and this roster of EG provides me with that. EG proves to me that you don't have to be the "crowd favourite" or an "all-star" team to win TI. you just need to be dedicated, hard-working and prepared to deliver when it matters most. | ||
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Gaial
United States313 Posts
On February 21 2016 16:29 scorpkx wrote: lol why is everyone talking about EG's early game, that isn't their problem, they are stable enough to not tilt after a bad early game and salvage the mid-late game. EG's problem is their team-fight coordination, their fights are often scrappy and clumsy and everyone seems to just want to put their abilities on cooldown. they often overlap disables and take fights in unfavorable positions and generally feel like they aren't on the same page in large scale fights. In their previous 2 grand finals appearances, [A] and Ehome have demolished EG in the early game to a point where EG, the comeback kings, could not recover. Looking at MDL, EG's weakest part is the laning stage. Fear's strength is not in his 5-10 minute rotations. Neither is PPD. | ||
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bluzi
4703 Posts
On February 21 2016 19:04 scorpkx wrote: Lol how does one respond to this... the logic is so overwhelming... "but ppl here are delusional if they think EG are so ahead of the game that replacing Sumail is a insta TI win" - i don't think anyone has said that, were all discussing whether kicking sumail would help or hinder EG's chances of repeating their TI win and many of us think the latter is more likely, say what you will about the kid but he definitely has skill and can definitely play at the top tier. "in any given day they can lose a BO3 or 2 and be out of a big tourney" - if that day is the last day of a tourney then yes i would agree because so far that seems to be the only day EG loose any given bo3 or bo5 to be a out of tourney. "they are not that much better then the rest of the field" - i think its pretty safe to say EG is top 3 and has been for a very long time. Even on an off day EG is still better than most T1 teams. "but do i think they are coming in as Alliance did in 2013 NO WAY" - fucking sensitive alliance fans...all i will say is WHO CARES if they aren't "coming in" like 2013 alliance, for almost 2 years EG has been a top 3 team and even got 3rd at TI4 with a fucking STAND-IN. if alliance can manage to get into the playoffs of at least one other TI outside of TI3 then we can start comparing the two. "They are doing as best as can be expected from a tier 1 team with the talent pool they have" - EVERYONE even EG's players admit they are playing like shit despite their good results, they all say they haven't reached their full potential yet so i doubt some internet random is going to reveal to all of us what EG's potential truly is. "if anything i would say they are over achieving due to hard work and team spirit" - at this point i think your just trolling if you really think EG is overachieving. " they are no way near to the individual skill cap the Secert dream team had and they out do them (you can all go back to the days before they came to EG and realise that each of them is a good player but aside from Fear no one was a Star)" All i can say at this point is who cares about individual skilled team or all-star teams. if anything DK and Secret 2.0 proved that all-star teams are just teams with ego's and big targets on their backs full of players that are all individually skilled but don't necessarily mesh well together and fall apart during big moments. As an dota fan i want a team that consistently stays relevant and provides me with some of the best and highest standard of dota to watch as well as likeable and skilled players. and this roster of EG provides me with that. EG proves to me that you don't have to be the "crowd favourite" or an "all-star" team to win TI. you just need to be dedicated, hard-working and prepared to deliver when it matters most. What are you doing ? quoting a sentence out of context and then analysing it? please read and try to understand the point i was making , if its not clear i will try and explain again , but dont take a sentence and just take it out of context.... you went beserk mate , really beserk. where did i wrote you need an all star team to win a TI ? did you miss the part i wrote they are hard working team ? did you miss the part when i wrote they should KEEP SUMAIL?! and the part they are better then the "all star" secret ?? man if you werent quoting me i would think you responded to someone else....... | ||
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Voronoff
United States302 Posts
Now, I think that's both extremely unlikely and would be stupid, but that's the set of positions that make sense. | ||
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the bear jew
United States3674 Posts
On February 22 2016 05:29 Voronoff wrote: If they were to kick Sumail it would be to put Fear mid/carry depending on meta and Zai 4. Now, I think that's both extremely unlikely and would be stupid, but that's the set of positions that make sense. I've seen Fear play a mean puck, and he did win a 1 v 1 mid tournament back in the day. Still way too soon to be talking about kicks. | ||
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ChickenDieAlive
699 Posts
I don't see EG kicking Sumail just because of recent performance. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
If they do kick someone it would be for closed-door chemistry issues, and in that case you might as well roll a dice as predict who it will be. I do wonder if an rtz-less team with fear back on carry and Zai on 4 wouldn't give them more options, but the current lineup is probably still stronger. | ||
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goody153
44309 Posts
On February 22 2016 09:31 Belisarius wrote: I do wonder if an rtz-less team with fear back on carry and Zai on 4 wouldn't give them more options, but the current lineup is probably still stronger. I think that would have a stronger support duo but weaker cores.( it's zai on 4 pos. dude knows how to play 4 pos really well ) | ||
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Gaial
United States313 Posts
Maybe Sumail isn't beyond godlike dominating every game, but he's still making incredibly smart plays. Also, more often than not, Sumail gets shut down hard because of his ability to snowball. Yet he still finds ways to recover and be more than relevant in the mid game. Every team makes mistakes and needs to work on things to get better. EG is no exception, yet they can adapt well enough on the fly to still get great results. | ||
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