Evil Geniuses Discussion - Page 71

On February 04 2016 14:15 Bigtony wrote:


Well they werent actually at MDL so they are not fresh in our minds.

On February 04 2016 20:48 wims80 wrote:
Why are we having a discussion about Alliance in the EG thread tho

On February 04 2016 20:48 wims80 wrote:
Why are we having a discussion about Alliance in the EG thread tho

On February 04 2016 18:09 spudde123 wrote:
Secret 2.0 didn't dominate dota for 3-4 months. They won 4 LANs in the span of less than 1.5 months, which was the length of their domination. Of course they had the incredible group stage run at DAC before they crumbled in the playoffs, but then they struggled a bit online and eventually had a very poor showing at SL. And after their winning run there only was TI really.

Concerning Bulldog I think the issue is more in how the team needs to work leadership wise. When s4 plays a tempo controller, he can lead the team. When he is forced to play a carry and Bulldog plays a tempo hero, it's far more difficult for s4 to make the calls because he isn't the one moving around all the time. It isn't so much about whether someone can play a hero mechanically but more about can you consistently be in the right place at the right time and also make your teammates be there to support you. And when the offlane heroes start to prioritize passive farming, it plays into Alliance's hands role wise. Their own safelane often isn't getting contested so they can get levels on supports and the carry and then fight together with s4. Who knows exactly how well they would do if the patch was a bit different. Not that some heroes they like are in general overpowered or something but anyway buffs to the heroes you specifically want to use help of course, especially when it's combined with nerfs to some heroes / styles you didn't do so well with.

Concerning EG, at this point it would be a bit foolish I guess to suspect EG wouldn't do well at Shanghai considering they've made it deep in all events they've played recently. But one thing I find interesting is that in pretty much every tournament EG has a bunch of close calls. For example after the major at Summit they won all their series 2-1 or 3-2, at SL they were extremely close to not making it out of groups, at MDL too they were 1 game away from starting from lower bracket. Sort of similar story at Frankfurt major (2-1 wins in 3 first series) and at MLG too (losing 2 series, all series they won were 2-1) . It's not just "day 1 EG" but more so that they consistently play close series and have eventually come out on top. When you consistently end up making it through anyway one can't really call it luck, but anyway going into Frankfurt I think there are a lot of teams where I wouldn't even go "what a shock!" if they happened to beat EG in one series. Though of course the opposite can be true as well and EG just becomes even stronger and instead just walks through their opponents until the later stages.

On February 05 2016 01:23 lolnoty wrote:

Almost exactly 3 months is where I'd say secret dominated, end of May->fall off in august. I checked ELO history just to be sure, and they definitely did 3 months on top under S4.

I agree that it's easier for the team to play with bulldog on those heroes, but that's because the rest of the team isn't as good as TS for S4 to work off of. S4 is the heart of the team and is making his idea of gameplay (TS version, not TI3 Alliance) work with Alliance comfortable heroes, which is going back to my original point. Alliance's success needs to survive a balance patch for people to be confident. If the game shifts again and Akke/EGM need to play uncomfortable support heroes, or Loda needs to actually carry the team which Bulldog plays the spacemaker core, then cool.

I think by people giving Bulldog so much credit they're actually insulting him. The idea spead in this thread that he can literally only function with 3-4 heroes is silly. The guy is definitely good enough to play traditional offlaners in a pro team, and has.

I guess I'll stop talking about S4 and Alliance, but EG thread barely moves.

On February 04 2016 23:21 Gaial wrote:


Digression from a video of Nahaz stating that EG is a tier above Alliance, even though Alliance soundly beat EG 2-0 at Starladder.


EG is much stronger than they showed during their MDL and SL runs. In 3 or so games, EG got caught sneaking Roshan that undoubtedly cost them their entire lead, and the victory in each game it happened. For all of their 2-1 series victories, 2 or more could've easily been 2-0 EG.

I'm more curious as to why EG stopped picking Enigma and Lycan though, I felt they were strong with those heroes at SL, but I don't remember seeing them at MDL.

On February 16 2016 09:30 Faruko wrote:
I think theres a decent chance that fear might end up retiring and works as a coach for EG, Zai could easily take the role there (he played support back in ti4 with eg)

On February 16 2016 09:30 Faruko wrote:
I think theres a decent chance that fear might end up retiring and works as a coach for EG, Zai could easily take the role there (he played support back in ti4 with eg)