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On August 17 2011 01:41 Yurie wrote:
It is very simple to make a MM system for a team game where you have a random team each time. You have an equal chance to get good or bad team members. You then arriving at ~50% win ratio (point adjusted) at that rating means you are stable with people of similar rating. If you keep winning 55% or more of the games (adjusted for rating) then you climb. If you lose 45% or more you drop.
What I mean by point adjusted is that if one team is 10% better then that team gets 10% less rating if winning while the other team gets 10% more than normal if they win. To keep it at what a 50% win ratio of similar skill should show.
Over time you will stabilise, it takes more games than in a 1v1 game, yet it still works the same way. There is no need to consider things like creep kills or K/D/A (though 0 denies in several games is a good indicator of low skill).
For IHLs, there are. Provided the people looking at the stuff aren't complete retards (which none of the good leagues should be), then it's not a problem and it's not like game-breaking-ly hard to implement.
And you're giving players far too much credit.
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Some players flat out suck at the game. Others are much better than me. I will arrive in the top 10% of players pretty quickly. Yet I will not be likely to climb into the top 1% of any MM system. That is where I think my skill level is at. I will be able to keep an above 50% win ration in the bottom 10% of the ladder. Which means I will climb.
How is that in any way related to giving players credit?
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Any good player will keep a 50%+ win ratio in the lower tiers by carrying their team through strategy and play itself. Things like saying b bot makes a world of difference if the person there couldn't tell he was about to get ganked.
This is overestimating the intelligence of most pub DotA players.
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On August 17 2011 01:55 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +Any good player will keep a 50%+ win ratio in the lower tiers by carrying their team through strategy and play itself. Things like saying b bot makes a world of difference if the person there couldn't tell he was about to get ganked. This is overestimating the intelligence of most pub DotA players.
QFT
I hope it won't be like this in dota 2, but it in the other games, you get bitched for telling someone what to do. And for stuff like that, even if you call it, you get bitched at for not calling it.
Playing with Friends is great though.
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On August 17 2011 01:55 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +Any good player will keep a 50%+ win ratio in the lower tiers by carrying their team through strategy and play itself. Things like saying b bot makes a world of difference if the person there couldn't tell he was about to get ganked. This is overestimating the intelligence of most pub DotA players.
DotA is a game where the presence of a really good player can easily shift the game in a teams favor.
This even was true even in the high ranked DotA leagues, when ever someone like Vigoss !signed in a game you would always get that feeling of dread of whether he would be in your team or the other, you had those players that were really freaking amazing at the game that could easily carry a team of mediocre players to a win just due to their presence alone
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On August 17 2011 01:55 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +Any good player will keep a 50%+ win ratio in the lower tiers by carrying their team through strategy and play itself. Things like saying b bot makes a world of difference if the person there couldn't tell he was about to get ganked. This is overestimating the intelligence of most pub DotA players.
I think you have a strange opinion of the majority and minority of players. The majority actually cares and want to win (excluding occasional games for lols [I dislike these more than the ones that never bother, if you are going to do this, do it with a stacked team]). In any MM system the ones that actually don't care and ignore chat even after you are correct one or two times will be at the bottom. Then there are some strange people that don't care about chat, ignores advice and so on but are simply good enough to climb anyhow.
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MM does not affect clan wars because they are arranged privately. Normally Player A challenges Player B's team.
I have 2 main concerns : a) The pub concern. With a MM system, there will be less custom games. There is nothing I enjoy more (sex does not count) than ariving @ home after a hard day of work and playing 2 or 3 custom games of dota. I just log in, signal my friends and play for fun. A ladder system kills the whole concept of play for fun.
b)There are 10 or 12 heroes that I'm best with. I am good with these heroes because I have played them intensively and extensively.. I have played them so much it is as fun as they used to be. I am now playing heroes I suck with. Heroes like visage or Urza. With a ladder system, you are forcing me to always play what I play best, instead of what gives me more fun.
My 2 cents about ladder.
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On August 17 2011 02:13 ilovelings wrote:
MM does not affect clan wars because they are arranged privately. Normally Player A challenges Player B's team.
I have 2 main concerns : a) The pub concern. With a MM system, there will be less custom games. There is nothing I enjoy more (sex does not count) than ariving @ home after a hard day of work and playing 2 or 3 custom games of dota. I just log in, signal my friends and play for fun. A ladder system kills the whole concept of play for fun.
b)There are 10 or 12 heroes that I'm best with. I am good with these heroes because I have played them intensively and extensively.. I have played them so much it is as fun as they used to be. I am now playing heroes I suck with. Heroes like visage or Urza. With a ladder system, you are forcing me to always play what I play best, instead of what gives me more fun.
My 2 cents about ladder.
Im sure there will be non ladder, or no stats if you wanna play other things. And since it will be f2p nothing is to stop you from having a non serious smurf account for playing other champs.
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Holy shit, iG vs EHOME is the first match! I am so hyped.
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On August 17 2011 01:32 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 00:54 Yurie wrote:On August 17 2011 00:49 ilovelings wrote:
I would love dota being pay2play. A 10 dollar pricetag would be awesome. Not exactly f2p but affordable to everyone.
Is the guy fighting razor the nightstalker?
On the MM issue, I hate ANY matchmaking system. I've been playing dota for 4 years now, and I will be 'matchmaked' with dem noobs. MM in a team game is stupid. I will stack my team anyways. Depends on how they make the MM system work. You can have tiered MM, where rating category 1 (beginners) get MM together, then have other categories up to maybe category 5. At no time does 5 play with anything lower than 4, if enough players 5 only plays with 5, 4 with 4 and so on. Any good player will break out of 1 quickly, most likely having a 70% or so win rate (assuming solo play without friends) at the start (consistent with my experience from DotA). It really should be tiered like the leagues in SC2. Honestly, it would be best if they made a customizable groups system which shouldn't be all that hard to implement given the nature of Steam groups. And when I said the community will step in to fix the potential MM problems, I meant IHLs, not the community fixing itself. I am halfway waiting to see how Steam/Valve handles the influx of DotA players on their forums, that should be a treat. And to the people bringing up metrics to judge skill, put them in context like you would any other statistic.
Steam dota2 forum redirects directly to playdota forums at the moment. :D Dunno if it will change though.
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I think the already existing "LR" thread is fitting
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wow, is the tournament bo1? Because there's only 75 minutes between game in schedules, and in no way that's bo3.
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The first matches are group matches. since when are group eliminations more than Bo1
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wtf... stream is at 1am PDT
i hope they get VODS up AAAASSSSSSAAAAAPPPPPPP!
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Can someone tell me the time in KST? im really confused by all this timezone shit
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kst is 7 hours after cmt - so the first game is at 17:00 kst today.
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EPT
