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Maskedsatyr
Singapore1245 Posts
On August 16 2011 11:57 Judicator wrote: MM won't fix it. The community should step in and fix it though. Its not the community its how the game works. When I play with sc2 with my friends I would never rage at them but when we are playing dota/hon I become a rage monster. | ||
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StateSC2
Korea (South)621 Posts
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Names
Canada328 Posts
On August 17 2011 00:19 zalz wrote: Because if they don't then they have lost the fight for the MOBA genre right then and there. If people are gonna have to fork over 30 or 50 euro to play Dota 2 then it's not gonna be able to put a scratch on LoL. Valve has been experimenting with free to play models. This can be most clearly found in how they made Team Fortress 2 free to play. A lot of people expect it to be a f2p game wich will make it's money off extras. Whilst TF2 has it's hats, DOTA2 might have skins for champions. I doubt it will sell champions like LoL did, but that could also happen, albeit less likely. All of that said i am not sure if they are gonna go F2P but they should if they want to stand a chance. Self reflection is a rare trait in any gamer so don't expect many DOTA fans to be able to stomach this, but if DOTA2 is not free to play it will lose out to LoL in player numbers by a massive margin. I thought we were not going to make this a war between a game and another. Also you are using forbidden words in your post. Enough of this. Please read the rules before posting next time. There have been numerous conversations about it being free or not and no answer has been given yet it seems. End of discussion. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
count down timer (from playdota) http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/fullscreen.html?mode=a&year=2011&month=08&day=17&hour=10&min=00&sec=00&p0=1015 | ||
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sopas
509 Posts
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ilovelings
Argentina776 Posts
Is the guy fighting razor the nightstalker? On the MM issue, I hate ANY matchmaking system. I've been playing dota for 4 years now, and I will be 'matchmaked' with dem noobs. MM in a team game is stupid. I will stack my team anyways. | ||
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tyCe
Australia2542 Posts
On August 17 2011 00:40 Names wrote: I thought we were not going to make this a war between a game and another. Also you are using forbidden words in your post. Enough of this. Please read the rules before posting next time. There have been numerous conversations about it being free or not and no answer has been given yet it seems. End of discussion. It doesn't make sense for there to be arbitrary rules on discussion though. It's not within a normal member's power to make a thread and dictate what and what cannot be discussed in it. | ||
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itachisan
Canada109 Posts
On August 17 2011 00:19 zalz wrote: Because if they don't then they have lost the fight for the MOBA genre right then and there. If people are gonna have to fork over 30 or 50 euro to play Dota 2 then it's not gonna be able to put a scratch on LoL. Valve has been experimenting with free to play models. This can be most clearly found in how they made Team Fortress 2 free to play. A lot of people expect it to be a f2p game wich will make it's money off extras. Whilst TF2 has it's hats, DOTA2 might have skins for champions. I doubt it will sell champions like LoL did, but that could also happen, albeit less likely. All of that said i am not sure if they are gonna go F2P but they should if they want to stand a chance. Self reflection is a rare trait in any gamer so don't expect many DOTA fans to be able to stomach this, but if DOTA2 is not free to play it will lose out to LoL in player numbers by a massive margin. You think Dota2 is gonna lose out to LoL if it's not F2P? LOL are you srs Dota2 is completely separate from WC3 now, and one of the many reasons why Dota1 was F2P was because it was based on the WC engine. Besides, you think hardcore Dota fans who are playing Dota or even transitioned to HoN are gonna give a shit if Dota2 is not F2P? Of course not, Dota2 already established a strong fanbase merely based on the fact that Icefrog leads in its development and ppl who have played Dota would want to play Dota2. You do understand that some of the LoL player population are ppl who might have never played dota before right? sure Dota2 MIGHT not get a huge amount of players than LoL if it's not F2P (which i highly doubt, but for your argument's sake let's assume that), but it will not be as serious and exaggerated as you made it out to be. "....not put a scratch on LoL" and "...massive margin" to me just sound plainly ridiculous and untrue. | ||
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
On August 17 2011 00:45 sopas wrote: they shouldve timed the beta after this tournament. gonna be shitty waiting for the beta for months most likely after seeing the tournament Icefrog said that there will be a beta in Fall. which is like next month. | ||
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Glull
Germany404 Posts
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Yurie
11822 Posts
On August 17 2011 00:49 ilovelings wrote: I would love dota being pay2play. A 10 dollar pricetag would be awesome. Not exactly f2p but affordable to everyone. Is the guy fighting razor the nightstalker? On the MM issue, I hate ANY matchmaking system. I've been playing dota for 4 years now, and I will be 'matchmaked' with dem noobs. MM in a team game is stupid. I will stack my team anyways. Depends on how they make the MM system work. You can have tiered MM, where rating category 1 (beginners) get MM together, then have other categories up to maybe category 5. At no time does 5 play with anything lower than 4, if enough players 5 only plays with 5, 4 with 4 and so on. Any good player will break out of 1 quickly, most likely having a 70% or so win rate (assuming solo play without friends) at the start (consistent with my experience from DotA). | ||
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fifasnipe2224
United States243 Posts
On August 16 2011 23:04 rotegirte wrote: 10 a.m. (CEST / GMT+2) on Wednesday 17th of August 4 a.m. (EDT / GMT-4) on Wednesday 17th of August 1 a.m. (PDT / GMT-7) on Wednesday 17th of August 1:30 p.m. (IST / GMT+5:30) on Wednesday 17th of August 6 p.m. (EST / GMT+10) on Wednesday 17th of August So if I live in New York (GMT -5 Eastern time) does that mean the stream starts for me at 3am or 4 am? and at about what time is the stream scheduled to end?? | ||
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Suffo
United States936 Posts
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ilovelings
Argentina776 Posts
On August 17 2011 00:54 Yurie wrote: Depends on how they make the MM system work. You can have tiered MM, where rating category 1 (beginners) get MM together, then have other categories up to maybe category 5. At no time does 5 play with anything lower than 4, if enough players 5 only plays with 5, 4 with 4 and so on. Any good player will break out of 1 quickly, most likely having a 70% or so win rate (assuming solo play without friends) at the start (consistent with my experience from DotA). The problem is that in dota TEAMPLAY > Individual skills. That distorts any individual based MM system. You cannot base the MM in individual skill either, because there is no way to appropiately mesure it. K/D/A is an indicative to some extent but Creep kills influence the K/D/A too. A friend of mine, who is a dedicated support (perma crystal maiden player) usually ends with 0/5/20 with 60 cs. Is he bad? . I don't think so. I'm a farmer who loves playing Spectre. I usually end up 15/2/10 with 300 cs. Am I bad? . The truth is that I've carried and been carried to victory hundreds of times. I have lost hundreds of times with a 15/0/15 score too. I believe that there are to many variables to have a MM system in a game like dota, and that they should keep the W3 aspect of it. You see a game hosted on bnet and you join in. What we used to do locally, was that you sent your individual/team replays for evaluation, and if you were good enough you were promoted to a restricted channel where players (not pro, but the ones with a decent level) hosted games for the people allowed in that channel. | ||
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jfourz
Ireland421 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On August 17 2011 00:54 Yurie wrote: Depends on how they make the MM system work. You can have tiered MM, where rating category 1 (beginners) get MM together, then have other categories up to maybe category 5. At no time does 5 play with anything lower than 4, if enough players 5 only plays with 5, 4 with 4 and so on. Any good player will break out of 1 quickly, most likely having a 70% or so win rate (assuming solo play without friends) at the start (consistent with my experience from DotA). It really should be tiered like the leagues in SC2. Honestly, it would be best if they made a customizable groups system which shouldn't be all that hard to implement given the nature of Steam groups. And when I said the community will step in to fix the potential MM problems, I meant IHLs, not the community fixing itself. I am halfway waiting to see how Steam/Valve handles the influx of DotA players on their forums, that should be a treat. And to the people bringing up metrics to judge skill, put them in context like you would any other statistic. | ||
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ilovelings
Argentina776 Posts
On August 17 2011 01:32 Judicator wrote: It really should be tiered like the leagues in SC2. Honestly, it would be best if they made a customizable groups system which shouldn't be all that hard to implement given the nature of Steam groups. And when I said the community will step in to fix the potential MM problems, I meant IHLs, not the community fixing itself. I am halfway waiting to see how Steam/Valve handles the influx of DotA players on their forums, that should be a treat. read my previous post please. | ||
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
On August 17 2011 01:29 ilovelings wrote: The problem is that in dota TEAMPLAY > Individual skills. That distorts any individual based MM system. You cannot base the MM in individual skill either, because there is no way to appropiately mesure it. K/D/A is an indicative to some extent but Creep kills influence the K/D/A too. A friend of mine, who is a dedicated support (perma crystal maiden player) usually ends with 0/5/20 with 60 cs. Is he bad? . I don't think so. I'm a farmer who loves playing Spectre. I usually end up 15/2/10 with 300 cs. Am I bad? . The truth is that I've carried and been carried to victory hundreds of times. I have lost hundreds of times with a 15/0/15 score too. I believe that there are to many variables to have a MM system in a game like dota, and that they should keep the W3 aspect of it. You see a game hosted on bnet and you join in. What we used to do locally, was that you sent your individual/team replays for evaluation, and if you were good enough you were promoted to a restricted channel where players (not pro, but the ones with a decent level) hosted games for the people allowed in that channel. Isnt it confirmed there will be a MM sistem ? Anyway I think they'll make it more complex than just K/D/A, so it evaluates players based on all the avalible information from games, at least they should | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
I did, I am not against stats in the game, I am against the blind use of stats which the community does. Too many variables is different how? If you're good, you're going to be high on the ladder, that's undeniable. As long as the ladder is relevant in the player's mind and they're skilled, then they'll be up there. All Yurie proposed was a cut-off at certain ratings to improve the overall quality of the game since newbs don't want to play with competitive and vice versa, which is totally fine. If you have a team, there's nothing stopping you from going out and finding people. The only real problem I see are the formation of good IHLs depending on how they do it. Edit: You are under the impression that individual stats is what goes into the deciding your rating when more likely it's going to be your win-loss much like an ELO system. I would be surprised if they didn't just use this system to determine your rating and just provide the other statistics. | ||
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Yurie
11822 Posts
What I mean by point adjusted is that if one team is 10% better then that team gets 10% less rating if winning while the other team gets 10% more than normal if they win. To keep it at what a 50% win ratio of similar skill should show. Over time you will stabilise, it takes more games than in a 1v1 game, yet it still works the same way. There is no need to consider things like creep kills or K/D/A (though 0 denies in several games is a good indicator of low skill). Any good player will keep a 50%+ win ratio in the lower tiers by carrying their team through strategy and play itself. Things like saying b bot makes a world of difference if the person there couldn't tell he was about to get ganked. | ||
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