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Their logic is flawed as hell.
The more players you throw into action, the less impact class balance has on the game. In 1v1s, the class balance factors will be huge and deciding. In a theoretical 4v4 - 6v6, teamwork and composition makes a much larger impact and reduces the burden on balance. In playing starcraft, we all know that the best.
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On December 29 2012 04:44 XerrolAvengerII wrote: Their logic is flawed as hell.
The more players you throw into action, the less impact class balance has on the game. In 1v1s, the class balance factors will be huge and deciding. In a theoretical 4v4 - 6v6, teamwork and composition makes a much larger impact and reduces the burden on balance. In playing starcraft, we all know that the best.
They could even make 5v5 and force 1 of each class via matchmaking.
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It's just a complete show of incompetence to state lack of balance as a reason to delay this. It's just an excuse for this not being a priority and them probably working on the expansion instead.
There are a lot of 'ugly' fixes already to balance spells between the different levels for example freezes and stuns are not as effective in higher difficulties. Why don't they simple apply these same principles to PvP.. Just create a unique class for players somewhat similar to elites (+ dmg vs elite affix working too) and give them more resistance to stuns, lower damage etc. You can easily modify spells or groups of spells to be better or worse then like making summons better vs this class or reduce ranged damage a bit whatever. Even the community can balance a bit themselves if blizzard doesn't have the time for it by not allowing some builds or forcing teams to have 1 of each character..
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On December 28 2012 07:06 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 06:22 reki- wrote: What they don't want is a forum full of 14yo whiners that complain that pvp is imbalanced because they would have to balance pvp and that's not what they are intending to do. No they dont. Did you ever pvp in d2? Shit was inbalanced as hell, and yet it still happened. They don't HAVE to do shit about the crybabies. Those will always exist, no matter what. There's no point in even trying to please them. You might as well please the rest of the playerbase by letting us whack the crap out of each other. Of course it's "mindless" it's fucking diablo. So is farming. I just want to go in 5v5 and spam buttons and die or get kills. Why is that so difficult to understand? It's ok if I go into mp10 and just spam buttons, but not against other players? What a backward ass thought process.
Internet these days cannot be compared to internet when D2 was new, the onslaught of "imba pvp" cryers would be substantially greater and probably cause alot of bad publicity if blizz really isn't going to patch/balance pvp. They would have to set up a balance team and don't want to do that most likely.
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On December 29 2012 05:29 Markwerf wrote: It's just a complete show of incompetence to state lack of balance as a reason to delay this. It's just an excuse for this not being a priority and them probably working on the expansion instead.
There are a lot of 'ugly' fixes already to balance spells between the different levels for example freezes and stuns are not as effective in higher difficulties. Why don't they simple apply these same principles to PvP.. Just create a unique class for players somewhat similar to elites (+ dmg vs elite affix working too) and give them more resistance to stuns, lower damage etc. You can easily modify spells or groups of spells to be better or worse then like making summons better vs this class or reduce ranged damage a bit whatever. Even the community can balance a bit themselves if blizzard doesn't have the time for it by not allowing some builds or forcing teams to have 1 of each character..
this is a good point. Its not like blizzard has managed to avoid ugly fixes so far with the extreme nerfs to cc in higher difficulty levels, theres no reason they couldnt similarly scale dmg or cc for pvp.
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Changing abilities to work different in PvP is a cheap way out, really. Then again doesn't seem they're too capable of coming up with something better either.
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Wow I can't believe they still haven't added PvP yet. Dunno what blizzard is thinking ><.
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On December 28 2012 03:16 Kickboxer wrote: In the list of top 10 most botched things of all time this game is somewhere between Napoleon's invasion of Russia and the Pepsi commercial that vaporized MJ's hair.
LMFAO
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On December 28 2012 06:08 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 06:02 Bosu wrote:On December 28 2012 05:54 Andr3 wrote: I don't know why people are mad about TDM, at least we get dueling. If TDM really has no objective and no ranking-system, then it's just temporary mindless fun.
I'm more interested in how the dueling system will work. Would be great to have some kind of a tournament-like structure in game and custom arenas to battle it out with others. Community made tournaments with certain item/spell restrictions could make up for some fun PvP play. I bought diablo 3 because PvP was promised. I don't have any desire to farm loot only to be able to farm for loot faster. I don't.... They promised a game that would have PvP without a concern for balance, no ladder, and under the assumption that gear was likely to play a deciding factor in who wins or loses. Why would this be desirable at all to you?
Because diablo is about being overpowered as fuck and blowing shit up. I didn't expect I would be playing d3 competitively.
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On December 29 2012 06:16 Bosu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 06:08 Logo wrote:On December 28 2012 06:02 Bosu wrote:On December 28 2012 05:54 Andr3 wrote: I don't know why people are mad about TDM, at least we get dueling. If TDM really has no objective and no ranking-system, then it's just temporary mindless fun.
I'm more interested in how the dueling system will work. Would be great to have some kind of a tournament-like structure in game and custom arenas to battle it out with others. Community made tournaments with certain item/spell restrictions could make up for some fun PvP play. I bought diablo 3 because PvP was promised. I don't have any desire to farm loot only to be able to farm for loot faster. I don't.... They promised a game that would have PvP without a concern for balance, no ladder, and under the assumption that gear was likely to play a deciding factor in who wins or loses. Why would this be desirable at all to you? Because diablo is about being overpowered as fuck and blowing shit up. I didn't expect I would be playing d3 competitively. Yeah, it's about the same simple appeal as what PvE Diablo has.
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Diablo 3 sold millions of copies and many players played for hundreds of hours. Diablo 3 scored 88 on metacritics. (The Diablo got 94 (topping the original Starcraft, which scored 88), Diablo 2 got just 88 too, Lord of Destruction only 87.)
It was of course a comercial success. The fact that you used the commercial metascore rating for the game just shows you're not really up on how opinions run. Every commercial game metascore is vastly overadjusted, the best way of determining whether a game is actually good is if the user and reviewer reviews are on roughly the same level. A game where the user score is a little under the reviewer score is probably a touch overhyped. A game where the user score is a little better than the reviewer score is probably a niche jewel.
Diablo II's reviewer/user score was 88/87 Starcraft II's reviewer/user score was 91/81 Diablo III's reviewer/user score was 88/38
That puts it in the same league as ME3 (89/45) and CoDMW3 (78/28), both also commercial successes but massive critical failures. The fact that a game sold a lot of copies clearly no longer is indicative that it is a good game.
Success does not equal quality.
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The force of idiots is strong within this thread.
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Don't play D3 anymore, bit funny to see how there's still no PvP and then this. It's like Blizzard is intentionally trying to tarnish their own image. O well, at least it's money saved on D3 expansions.
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how many ppl still play d3 anyways? most of the people that bought the game quit soon after just because the game is such a massive failure, the fact that there isnt pvp in this game months after release is such a joke.
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I wonder how much time they wasted working on team deathmatch. They decided to remove it because their internal dev's found it boring within the first few hours... I guess they didn't find farming/key runs boring. Anyway, what worries me is they say they're gonna replace it with something better.. sound familiar?
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On December 29 2012 10:55 Thereisnosaurus wrote:Show nested quote +Diablo 3 sold millions of copies and many players played for hundreds of hours. Diablo 3 scored 88 on metacritics. (The Diablo got 94 (topping the original Starcraft, which scored 88), Diablo 2 got just 88 too, Lord of Destruction only 87.) It was of course a comercial success. The fact that you used the commercial metascore rating for the game just shows you're not really up on how opinions run. Every commercial game metascore is vastly overadjusted, the best way of determining whether a game is actually good is if the user and reviewer reviews are on roughly the same level. A game where the user score is a little under the reviewer score is probably a touch overhyped. A game where the user score is a little better than the reviewer score is probably a niche jewel. Diablo II's reviewer/user score was 88/87 Starcraft II's reviewer/user score was 91/81 Diablo III's reviewer/user score was 88/38That puts it in the same league as ME3 (89/45) and CoDMW3 (78/28), both also commercial successes but massive critical failures. The fact that a game sold a lot of copies clearly no longer is indicative that it is a good game. Success does not equal quality.
Metacritic user scores are even less reliable then normal reviews when it comes down to big game releases. Just because the ending in ME3 wasn't as good as they hoped people bombed Metacritic with poor 0 score reviews. ME3 was a fine game up until the lame ending. Does that deserve a 45? No, not at all.
Same for Diablo 3 really. "I played 200 hours and the game is shit" I really scratch my head with those statements....why did you play 200 hours you didn't enjoy? Are you okay? It boggles my mind.
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Diablo 2 ability comparison:
Level 40 Poison Creeper (has no synergies): 312 dmg over 12 seconds. (26 damage instantly?)
Level 40 Lightning (fully synergized): 89.000 damage instantly.
Lightning does 3432x more damage than Poison Creeper does. Did anyone care? No, there were alternatives but most importantly - building a character to kill other characters was fun.
In 2001, diablo pvp (im)balance wasn't a problem, why should it be a problem now?
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oh making pvp fun with classes that barely have anything to offer as supportive spells or spells to block things. The only way to make this really entertaining would be objective based pvp. And add equip that only works on pvp maps and is better then most stuff. Deathmatch is fine though, there are people who like to show off their superior equipment always, but yeah those modes die out pretty quickly and only a few remain. Would be interesting if they would bring out 2 support classes with the expansion that basically just have one skill tree to level solo.
In 2001 people that disliked it simply didn't do it. Now they would write a copy paste email with their 1000 mail accounts to complain and try to tell the world. It works to good nowadays, just on this page someone showed us how much reviewers disliked diablo3 and gave it a bad rating, as if this wouldn't be mostly hurt fanboys.
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"Add equip that only works on pvp maps and better then most of stuff" Hell no! Thats not Diablo! We always farm for faster farm and killing our friends with our stuff.
"Would be interesting if they would bring out 2 support classes with the expansion" There is NO support classes in Diablo. Everybody is Tank, everybody is DPS, everybody supoorts HIMSELF!
Mate... I'm sory but this is Diablo. Not a MMO game. Not MobA game.
We enter arena like gladiators, we break bones, we crush skulls, we kill others and we don't want a "supporter" for help us. Diablo is an ego game. With "support" classes that feeling will gone.
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so blizz can balance the world's most popular and complex RTS games but cant balance a battle arena?
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