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On April 25 2012 01:34 Kenpark wrote:
I seriously have to laugh when people compare WoW and Diablo 3. You dont have to learn bosses in Diablo 3 like you did in WoW.
How do you know that? Imagine if each of Leorics skeletons had 4k health instead, then you would be forced to make Leoric kill them himself or you would quickly get swamped in skeletons and thus killed. You wouldn't know that the first time and it would take a while to perfect, especially since the strikes he uses to kill his skeleton buddies would one shot you, so you would have to lure all the skeletons close to him, then quickly run away. I'd wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly how he plays on harder difficulties and that this is the reason why they give you an achievement for doing it.
On April 25 2012 01:34 Kenpark wrote:Any half competent group will breeze through inferno, if its also solo-able. And they said coop is optional so yeah my estimate for inferno last boss kill is maybe 1 week. Prob even faster.
When you play solo you have a companion and everything have less health. I'd say that the hardest way to play is 2 man, but if it is easier to play 4 or 1 isn't as easy to say, probably depends on the boss.
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It baffles me how ignorant some of you are. I guess this isn't worth discussing anymore and we'll just find out in four weeks whether Blizzard is the dumbass or you're the dumbass.
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Look likes this Kenpack guy play too much WoW and give WoW boss too much credit. As a person who play WoW from the beta day, got (2nd kill of Nefarion in BWL on my server) till the end of fireland heroic. I can assure you that WoW is a casual game except for top guilds
Also, I don't know if you aware of this but when a person join a diablo game, all monster health is increased by 75%. So a group of 4 people will not fight the same monster that the one that solo does.
One week for inferno last boss, lol. You need level 60 with hell gear in order to even do act 1 in inferno..I doubt there is any person on earth that can do that in one week.
I don't know why people compare WoW with Diablo. WoW is more about getting a group of 10/25 man together than anything else. Just give me random 25 people that will play consistanly 5 hours a day I will give you every heroic there are in WoW.
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On April 25 2012 00:33 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 23:52 NotSorry wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 16:27 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 14:55 NotSorry wrote:
The devs keep dropping little hints that it might be months til someone beats inferno, I would honestly be surprised if it lasts 2 weeks, to the point of taking it as a challenge to myself of doing it before then, while still maintaining my busy life style. Now sure the vast majority of players will quit the game long before even seeing the end of the 2nd or 3rd difficulty but don't underestimate gamers as a whole just because of a casual majority. If the game is beaten in under two weeks, you're basically saying that normal is about 24 hours long and the other three difficulties won't be that much longer so gear is basically useless and there is no complexity in the bosses (tank & spank). Let's not mention that the person doing this would have to be on a polyphasic sleep cycle. Sure it won't be as hard as SSC, TK, firefighter, or yogg but it's not going to be as easy as you make it out to be lol... In other words, the game is shit if it's beaten in under two weeks. You're comparing the a game where the difficulty comes from you having to rely on 24 other people to one that is only your self, you're setting yourself up for a big disappointment. On April 24 2012 19:15 MaReK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 14:55 NotSorry wrote:
The devs keep dropping little hints that it might be months til someone beats inferno, I would honestly be surprised if it lasts 2 weeks. I made a bet with a friend that inferno will be beaten in the first 48 hours after release. I plan to play A LOT during the first few days and I don't think I'll take any more than a day per difficulty - so 4 days. I used to do a few speedruns for certain games and managed a fairly close time for the D2 record (0:58m to beat normal) so for some of the extreme players, inferno won't last long. Yea I probably overestimate it a good bit but I was thinking more for myself as at the time I'll be starting a new fight camp and have a bunch of other stuff going on so I'll probably be very limited on game time, so overshot to 2weeks just to be safe. If you think that WoW is difficult solely due to the coordination of twenty five players than you're simply ignorant. Even though the game is majority of the time overtuned or overnerfed, the game still requires you to be somewhat competent, unfortunately that's not the case for a lot of people. There are dozens of elements that exist in WoW, D3, and every other RPG. It's just part of the game. If there is gear progression than obviously certain encounters will be dependent on gear level which will require farming. It doesn't matter if the encounter is solo or in a group of 25, you're going to have to learn the encounter first. If there are multiple phases than you must be a fucking genius if you one shot it on the hardest difficulty or it could be that the game is just terrible. Are Diablo III encounters going to be as complex as Yogg+0? Probably not but you're kidding yourself if you think you can walk into Inferno and expect to kill it in one or two attempts. Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 00:13 NotSorry wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 25 2012 00:04 bLah. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 23:52 NotSorry wrote:
You're comparing the a game where the difficulty comes from you having to rely on 24 other people to one that is only your self, you're setting yourself up for a big disappointment. Thing is that both games rely heavily on gear, you can be the most skilled player in the world if the boss 2 shots you -> you're dead. thing with diablo is that you will be able to buy top items so it's gonna be faster for those people while in wow items are bind on pickup. But i seriously doubt that blizz will make a game where you'll be able to beat inferno without buying gear in under 100h of gameplay on your first run. 50h like some suggest would be silly, that would mean 100-150h for casuals which is like 3 months. So 3 months to finish everything and then more than a year of whining when's expansion gonna come out? I seriously doubt it Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 23:42 skyR wrote:
Ulduar was insanely overtuned, I don't know what you're talking about. well ok, couple of bosses in ulduar and lich king hc were hard, rest wasn't as hard as other expos, but that's not a point. wow progression isn't as fast as people would like to believe and it takes weeks to clear a tier. Gear is important and that system allows developers to make nice progression system. There's no way that someone will just get normal magic items and run through inferno You realize in wow all world firsts came from people using "shit" gear on their first clears compared to people in 1st tier guilds that had to farm gear off the few bosses they could kill for a few weeks before getting to the end progress. So there is a lot more leeway than you give credit to for player skill. Boss 2 shots you there were plenty that did, just meant bring more healers or more tanks to rotate with to keep the damage spread while trading cooldowns or kite him. You clearly never played WoW based on this dumbass reply. You realize that all the world firsts came from people with amazing gear? 4H only took so long because of gear... Saph only took so long because of gear... Patchwerk was always done last because of gear... and there are plenty of other encounters with absurd DPS or tank requirements. You can't simply bring more tanks and healers because there wouldn't be enough DPS. Let's not forget that guilds that are attempting for world firsts actually have to think and solve the encounter... lolol think, a concept too hard for most people. Googling a strategy is not available to you.
If we're gonna compare to Wow, there are 2 big differences we should remember.
1. Wow is actually pretty quick to gear up in. Bosses are guaranteed to drop items appropriate to the content, and usually the drop rate of each specific item is around 1/6 or 1/7.
2. Wow gear had a very hard upper cap for each class, and once you reached best in slot you basically hit a ceiling for damage/survivability
Now look at D3.
1. D3 drops are never guaranteed to even happen, when they drop they will usually be crap. You need to get a base item that's useful, then the quality has to be good, and then you have to roll decent affixes, and get decent rolls on the numbers. Look at how rare good crafted items were in D2 - you could literally count them on one hand (and admittedly they got duped massively, but at least you know they were duped because they had the same well known name).
It will take a massive amount of drops to get even "decent" gear where you could reach the minimum threshold for a new difficulty - far harder than the day or 2 of farming guaranteed drops you needed in WoW to gear up for a new tier.
2. D3 has such a high (pretty much unreachable) gear ceiling compared to WoW's. They don't need to balance the next act of content against the gear you just did the current act in, because you can always get better gear in the current act.
Similarly, this is why they never need to nerf the content. In Wow, you'd hit your gear ceiling and if you weren't good enough, you'd never beat a fight and then you'd go on the forums and bitch at Blizzard til they nerfed int. In D3, you suck it up and either farm more gear or get better.
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Agreed with dmfg. Both WoW and D3 are brilliant games, why are we having this silly discussion?
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On April 25 2012 01:51 Caphe wrote:
Look likes this Kenpack guy play too much WoW and give WoW boss too much credit. As a person who play WoW from the beta day, got (2nd kill of Nefarion in BWL on my server) till the end of fireland heroic. I can assure you that WoW is a casual game(save the vanilla and early TBC).
Also, I don't know if you aware of this but when a person join a diablo game, all monster health is increased by 75%. So a group of 4 people will not fight the same monster that the one that solo does.
One week for inferno last boss, lol. You need level 99 with hell gear in order to even do act 1 in inferno..I doubt there is any person on earth that can do that in one week.
I don't know why people compare WoW with Diablo. WoW is more about getting a group of 10/25 man together than anything else. Just give me random 25 people that will play consistanly 5 hours a day I will give you every heroic there are in WoW.
It will be pretty hard to get 39 levels above the maximum regardless of time limit.
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On April 25 2012 01:59 HaXXspetten wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 01:51 Caphe wrote:
Look likes this Kenpack guy play too much WoW and give WoW boss too much credit. As a person who play WoW from the beta day, got (2nd kill of Nefarion in BWL on my server) till the end of fireland heroic. I can assure you that WoW is a casual game(save the vanilla and early TBC).
Also, I don't know if you aware of this but when a person join a diablo game, all monster health is increased by 75%. So a group of 4 people will not fight the same monster that the one that solo does.
One week for inferno last boss, lol. You need level 99 with hell gear in order to even do act 1 in inferno..I doubt there is any person on earth that can do that in one week.
I don't know why people compare WoW with Diablo. WoW is more about getting a group of 10/25 man together than anything else. Just give me random 25 people that will play consistanly 5 hours a day I will give you every heroic there are in WoW. It will be pretty hard to get 39 levels above the maximum regardless of time limit.
Ooops. whatever I meant max level.
Will edit my post accordingly.
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On April 25 2012 01:31 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 00:38 NotSorry wrote:
Feel free to google Blood Legion if you doubt my wow credits. Who cares about a newly formed guild when he talks about raids many years old? The four horsemen in vanilla was the toughest raidboss ever made in WoW history. It took 7 weeks until that boss was defeated by Death and Taxes. Death and Taxes were an insane guild by the way, they had so many members that they could run concurrent raidgroups and thus gear up the large amount of tanks needed much faster than anyone else. New formed guild? You do realize we got the 9th world kill on KT in Naxx40 and only a day or so behind D&T on 4H which was a gimmick fight with terrible RNG rather than the ultimate challenge you seem to think it was.
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On April 25 2012 03:03 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 01:31 Klockan3 wrote:On April 25 2012 00:38 NotSorry wrote:
Feel free to google Blood Legion if you doubt my wow credits. Who cares about a newly formed guild when he talks about raids many years old? The four horsemen in vanilla was the toughest raidboss ever made in WoW history. It took 7 weeks until that boss was defeated by Death and Taxes. Death and Taxes were an insane guild by the way, they had so many members that they could run concurrent raidgroups and thus gear up the large amount of tanks needed much faster than anyone else. New formed guild? You do realize we got the 9th world kill on KT in Naxx40 and only a day or so behind D&T on 4H which was a gimmick fight with terrible RNG rather than the ultimate challenge you seem to think it was.
4h killed our guild, US horde first thaddius to dead guild.
fuck pre-nerf 4H. 
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4h killed many guilds it was fucking hell til the gimmick became obvious then it was just smashing your face into a brickwall of RNG and invisible void zones....
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If you can beat the first 4-5 worlds in Super Mario Bros 3 (without the flute) then you have shown to have enough awareness, hand to eye ordination to beat any boss in WoW. As long as the other 24 people also posses the ability to get at least half way through a NES game. There is nothing in WoW that will require you to pull of some insane moves, like Akira in Virtua Fighter 4/5 and his insane 15 hit combos that pros can barely pull off.
I imagine Diablo 3 will be similar like that. Blizzard isent trying to make a ultra hard game like Battletoads or Ghosts n Goblins here. My hope is that they will overtune the hell out of inferno, and gradually balances it out while more and more people hit it. In Diablo 1 a common strat in the harder levels was to slowly pull fewest mobs possible, stand in the door way so that you are fighting only 1 mob at a time.
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On April 25 2012 03:03 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 01:31 Klockan3 wrote:On April 25 2012 00:38 NotSorry wrote:
Feel free to google Blood Legion if you doubt my wow credits. Who cares about a newly formed guild when he talks about raids many years old? The four horsemen in vanilla was the toughest raidboss ever made in WoW history. It took 7 weeks until that boss was defeated by Death and Taxes. Death and Taxes were an insane guild by the way, they had so many members that they could run concurrent raidgroups and thus gear up the large amount of tanks needed much faster than anyone else. New formed guild? You do realize we got the 9th world kill on KT in Naxx40 and only a day or so behind D&T on 4H which was a gimmick fight with terrible RNG rather than the ultimate challenge you seem to think it was.
But 4h obviously contradicts your statement that Diablo 3 will get beaten in a week since pro players are pro. No matter how good you are they can always throw in stuff that you need a lot of grinding to beat, 7 weeks is a lot longer than some thinks it will take for people to beat inferno and that was only a raid with a few bosses. Blizzard could easily put in bosses harder than 4h in inferno.
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No, no they couldn't because it's single player, they can't possibly add a boss that requires 8 to 12 tanks to do.What do you not understand here.
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It seems to me the point is, everything is tuned to be solable, the only difference is, is as you have 2-3 more people with you they scale the bosses hit points and maybe damage. It will not be as hard as co-ordinating 10-40 people to do their tasks correctly, it will come down to your individual skill and maybe a gear check. That is why Diablo 3 can never be harder than WoW(In the boss fight sense), the only hard part would be lucking out and getting all your drops you need to gear you for the hardest mode. It isn't a bad thing, it will make the game enjoyable still.
edit: It might not take longer because you don't have to wait on other people to be ready, run back, and make a mistake that costs you the fight.
In D3 you can die, run back and get ready much faster, Kill the boss as many times as you want after you figure it out. RNG will be a bitch but hey, that is a dungeon slasher for you. ^^
Hardcore is going to be the tricky part, but that is just another difficulty that would make the game much harder than WoW and I will leave that alone.
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On April 25 2012 04:18 NotSorry wrote:
No, no they couldn't because it's single player, they can't possibly add a boss that requires 8 to 12 tanks to do.What do you not understand here.
They can however add bosses that requires similar amounts of gear farming. Also since it isn't 40 man they can add much more technical stuff and just like wow you are limited in your retries by the amount of gold you got. Most likely inferno will be a drain on your gold reserves forcing you to go back and farm hell.
On April 25 2012 04:23 Kralic wrote:
It will not be as hard as co-ordinating 10-40 people to do their tasks correctly, it will come down to your individual skill and maybe a gear check.
But the things each one of those 40 persons did was trivial just because you needed to coordinate 40 persons. Smaller scale encounters can be tuned to have much more technical things.
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The only reason 4h took any gear farming at all was because no guild had 8 to 12 tanks, at the very most a guild at 4, so they had to completely gear up new tanks from dps players or recruit cross server. It wasn't like 4h was a gear check like say Patchwerk was.
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On April 25 2012 04:26 NotSorry wrote:
The only reason 4h took any gear farming at all was because no guild had 8 to 12 tanks, at the very most a guild at 4, so they had to completely gear up new tanks from dps players or recruit cross server. It wasn't like 4h was a gear check like say Patchwerk was.
And you know what? None have any gear at all when D3 is released! If it took entire guilds several weeks to farm up a few tanks, why is it so hard for you to understand that farming items in D3 can take a while? The gear is capped in wow due to weekly lockouts. The gear is capped in diablo due to most dropped gear sucking so you have to do it over and over and over most times finding nothing.
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D3 doesn't have loot only on bosses that are on 1 week timers....it's obvious you're just trolling now
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On April 25 2012 04:29 NotSorry wrote:
D3 doesn't have loot only on bosses that are on 1 week timers....it's obvious you're just trolling now
D3 don't have any mobs with guaranteed loot either. In wow there are mobs with the best loot just sitting there, you kill it you get the best loot. Not so in D3. At least in D2 you needed thousands of runs to get good gear. However good gear weren't needed anywhere so it didn't matter progression wise.
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On April 25 2012 01:51 Caphe wrote:
Look likes this Kenpack guy play too much WoW and give WoW boss too much credit. As a person who play WoW from the beta day, got (2nd kill of Nefarion in BWL on my server) till the end of fireland heroic. I can assure you that WoW is a casual game except for top guilds
Also, I don't know if you aware of this but when a person join a diablo game, all monster health is increased by 75%. So a group of 4 people will not fight the same monster that the one that solo does.
One week for inferno last boss, lol. You need level 60 with hell gear in order to even do act 1 in inferno..I doubt there is any person on earth that can do that in one week.
I don't know why people compare WoW with Diablo. WoW is more about getting a group of 10/25 man together than anything else. Just give me random 25 people that will play consistanly 5 hours a day I will give you every heroic there are in WoW.
Same as the BL guy i've also been around top 3-25 guilds in the world from vanilla up to cata.
I will bet my life that if i give u 25(40) random people ( and i mean completely random ) even if they have knowledge of gaming you will never be able to beat.
Vanilla:
Loatheb
Viscidus
Thaddius
Gothik
4HM
Ouro-Cthun prenerf
TBC
You would never even get pass the trash in SSC , not to mention the version of morogrim tidewalker with the reflecting water elementals ( very few guilds saw that )
Lady vashj
prenerf
Al'ar
Solarian
KT ( before healing aggro fix ) even after it...
Not even gonna go into KJ and muru even after the interruption nerf.
WoTLK
OS 10man 3 drakes up
Freya after she got buffed after IS killed her HM 1st week
2min hodir
Firefigther prenerf phase 1-2
Yogg 0 lights
But gratz on your server 2nd BWL kill , it seems you have alot of clue about diablo and wow. We can speculate alot about the true natue of how "hard" diablo 3 will be on inferno. But if its not massively overtuned like some bosses in WoW , i asure you it will be defeated under a week.
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EPT
