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On April 25 2012 08:10 Mastermyth wrote:
Regarding the time spent clearing Inferno: Just like in WoW there is a huge difference between the extremely hardcore and the "regular" hardcore. If it takes skilled gamers who play 16h per day more than 1 week, it will take the rest most likely 6 months, if they ever kill it at all. Unless Blizzard has really designed Inferno to be for the top 1% only, expect it to be cleared in days. And there's nothing wrong with that really, the most hardcore players know that content doesn't last as long for them as it does for others.
Is the top 1% really that hard? Comparing it to Sc2 would be like mid masters since masters is the top 2% and look at how easy that is. In wow less than 0.1% saw the later stages of Naxx40, or the Sun Well.
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On April 25 2012 08:30 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 08:10 Mastermyth wrote:
Regarding the time spent clearing Inferno: Just like in WoW there is a huge difference between the extremely hardcore and the "regular" hardcore. If it takes skilled gamers who play 16h per day more than 1 week, it will take the rest most likely 6 months, if they ever kill it at all. Unless Blizzard has really designed Inferno to be for the top 1% only, expect it to be cleared in days. And there's nothing wrong with that really, the most hardcore players know that content doesn't last as long for them as it does for others. Is the top 1% really that hard? Comparing it to Sc2 would be like mid masters since masters is the top 2% and look at how easy that is. In wow less than 0.1% saw the later stages of Naxx40, or the Sun Well.
Of players that were actually interested in seing the Sun Well the number was A LOT higher. Naxx40 was a different story though. No guild on my server got past the 4H.
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On April 25 2012 08:36 DaCruise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 08:30 NotSorry wrote:On April 25 2012 08:10 Mastermyth wrote:
Regarding the time spent clearing Inferno: Just like in WoW there is a huge difference between the extremely hardcore and the "regular" hardcore. If it takes skilled gamers who play 16h per day more than 1 week, it will take the rest most likely 6 months, if they ever kill it at all. Unless Blizzard has really designed Inferno to be for the top 1% only, expect it to be cleared in days. And there's nothing wrong with that really, the most hardcore players know that content doesn't last as long for them as it does for others. Is the top 1% really that hard? Comparing it to Sc2 would be like mid masters since masters is the top 2% and look at how easy that is. In wow less than 0.1% saw the later stages of Naxx40, or the Sun Well. Of players that were actually interested in seing the Sun Well the number was A LOT higher. Naxx40 was a different story though. No guild on my server got past the 4H.
I'm sure a lot more people saw Sun Well. But it boils down to people who were interested in the content. When BWL and ZG first came out a really small percentage of people saw the content. As time went by, more and more people cleared BWL and ZG. Now the content thats released right now, an expansion comes out within a year and thats not enough time for casual players to clear the high end stuff in WoW so it comes down to who is hardcore enough to finish the content when it actually matters (before the level cap goes up and the gear you once had is useless).
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I honestly am more interested in how the RMAH and gold AH works out than the actual amount of time it takes to clear Inferno.
I agree that Inferno may be cleared in 2 weeks tops by someone with a bunch of money to blow, but for someone who decides not to invest any real money into the AH I think the few months benchmark is pretty reliable.
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On April 25 2012 04:39 TheBJ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 01:51 Caphe wrote:
Look likes this Kenpack guy play too much WoW and give WoW boss too much credit. As a person who play WoW from the beta day, got (2nd kill of Nefarion in BWL on my server) till the end of fireland heroic. I can assure you that WoW is a casual game except for top guilds
Also, I don't know if you aware of this but when a person join a diablo game, all monster health is increased by 75%. So a group of 4 people will not fight the same monster that the one that solo does.
One week for inferno last boss, lol. You need level 60 with hell gear in order to even do act 1 in inferno..I doubt there is any person on earth that can do that in one week.
I don't know why people compare WoW with Diablo. WoW is more about getting a group of 10/25 man together than anything else. Just give me random 25 people that will play consistanly 5 hours a day I will give you every heroic there are in WoW. + Show Spoiler +
Same as the BL guy i've also been around top 3-25 guilds in the world from vanilla up to cata.
I will bet my life that if i give u 25(40) random people ( and i mean completely random ) even if they have knowledge of gaming you will never be able to beat.
Vanilla:
Loatheb
Viscidus
Thaddius
Gothik
4HM
Ouro-Cthun prenerf
TBC
You would never even get pass the trash in SSC , not to mention the version of morogrim tidewalker with the reflecting water elementals ( very few guilds saw that )
Lady vashj
prenerf
Al'ar
Solarian
KT ( before healing aggro fix ) even after it...
Not even gonna go into KJ and muru even after the interruption nerf.
WoTLK
OS 10man 3 drakes up
Freya after she got buffed after IS killed her HM 1st week
2min hodir
Firefigther prenerf phase 1-2
Yogg 0 lights
But gratz on your server 2nd BWL kill , it seems you have alot of clue about diablo and wow. We can speculate alot about the true natue of how "hard" diablo 3 will be on inferno. But if its not massively overtuned like some bosses in WoW , i asure you it will be defeated under a week.
I am not arguing that D3 is more difficult than WoW, cos that pointless since they are two difference games in 2 difference genre.
I myself admire people in top guilds in WoW and follow their progress very closely, so I may be a bit over my head with 25/40 random people. How about 25/40 people that in diamond/Master in SC2? Just people good at gaming in general.
My point being, you cant compare the 2 games. D3 was design to end for people that only want to finish the story line, or it could be endless if you are hardcore and want to PvP, if so even running inferno hundreds of time is not gonna satisfied.
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On April 25 2012 08:41 zJayy962 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 08:36 DaCruise wrote:On April 25 2012 08:30 NotSorry wrote:On April 25 2012 08:10 Mastermyth wrote:
Regarding the time spent clearing Inferno: Just like in WoW there is a huge difference between the extremely hardcore and the "regular" hardcore. If it takes skilled gamers who play 16h per day more than 1 week, it will take the rest most likely 6 months, if they ever kill it at all. Unless Blizzard has really designed Inferno to be for the top 1% only, expect it to be cleared in days. And there's nothing wrong with that really, the most hardcore players know that content doesn't last as long for them as it does for others. Is the top 1% really that hard? Comparing it to Sc2 would be like mid masters since masters is the top 2% and look at how easy that is. In wow less than 0.1% saw the later stages of Naxx40, or the Sun Well. Of players that were actually interested in seing the Sun Well the number was A LOT higher. Naxx40 was a different story though. No guild on my server got past the 4H. I'm sure a lot more people saw Sun Well. But it boils down to people who were interested in the content. When BWL and ZG first came out a really small percentage of people saw the content. As time went by, more and more people cleared BWL and ZG. Now the content thats released right now, an expansion comes out within a year and thats not enough time for casual players to clear the high end stuff in WoW so it comes down to who is hardcore enough to finish the content when it actually matters (before the level cap goes up and the gear you once had is useless).
Everyone saw Sunwell because they did that bullshit nerf that reduced every boss/unit's health in the raid dungeons by 30% and took away a lot of their abilities and the like a couple months before the release of WoTLK.
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On April 25 2012 09:22 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 08:41 zJayy962 wrote:On April 25 2012 08:36 DaCruise wrote:On April 25 2012 08:30 NotSorry wrote:On April 25 2012 08:10 Mastermyth wrote:
Regarding the time spent clearing Inferno: Just like in WoW there is a huge difference between the extremely hardcore and the "regular" hardcore. If it takes skilled gamers who play 16h per day more than 1 week, it will take the rest most likely 6 months, if they ever kill it at all. Unless Blizzard has really designed Inferno to be for the top 1% only, expect it to be cleared in days. And there's nothing wrong with that really, the most hardcore players know that content doesn't last as long for them as it does for others. Is the top 1% really that hard? Comparing it to Sc2 would be like mid masters since masters is the top 2% and look at how easy that is. In wow less than 0.1% saw the later stages of Naxx40, or the Sun Well. Of players that were actually interested in seing the Sun Well the number was A LOT higher. Naxx40 was a different story though. No guild on my server got past the 4H. I'm sure a lot more people saw Sun Well. But it boils down to people who were interested in the content. When BWL and ZG first came out a really small percentage of people saw the content. As time went by, more and more people cleared BWL and ZG. Now the content thats released right now, an expansion comes out within a year and thats not enough time for casual players to clear the high end stuff in WoW so it comes down to who is hardcore enough to finish the content when it actually matters (before the level cap goes up and the gear you once had is useless). Everyone saw Sunwell because they did that bullshit nerf that reduced every boss/unit's health in the raid dungeons by 30% and took away a lot of their abilities and the like a couple months before the release of WoTLK.
Oh yea the patch that made Ret pallies the highest dps in the game by some ungodly amount.
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On April 24 2012 09:08 skyR wrote:
It's going to be less than 5% like every other game. The majority of players will finish the game and than not even touch the higher difficulties or quit somewhere inbetween. I think you're overestimating the skill level or dedication for the general gaming population...
i think u dont realize how much blizzard has sold out.. the game will be pretty easy. i think 6-20%
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United States5162 Posts
Did D2 become a lot harder with the expansion? Because I played for a while around 2001-2002 and had very little problem doing anything with unoptimized builds and very little planning. I don't remember much trouble going through hell and I certainly wasn't hardcore.
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I played though Hell twice in solo (non-hardcore) mode, but I wouldn't call myself good at it at all. The game certainly wasn't very hard, you just needed to spend some time in it. So yes, that meant doing some leveling before the final boss. Big deal.
I'll do the same with D3, I think. Or maybe skip insane if it's really that hard. But I'll take my time reaching it, i'm in no hurry at all...
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On April 25 2012 09:42 PhiliBiRD wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 09:08 skyR wrote:
It's going to be less than 5% like every other game. The majority of players will finish the game and than not even touch the higher difficulties or quit somewhere inbetween. I think you're overestimating the skill level or dedication for the general gaming population... i think u dont realize how much blizzard has sold out.. the game will be pretty easy. i think 6-20%
And I think your response might be part of an agenda that's blinding you from this aspect (where in others, I may agree).
That is, by a Diablo 2 standard and based on what was delivered in the OP's speech, Inferno as a whole appears more difficult than the average Hell run in LoD. However, I'm interested in why you may disagree if it's not a remote summary of all the ways in which Blizzard has let us down over the past few years, because I could discuss that at length to a different conclusion.
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On April 24 2012 20:45 ffreakk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 20:28 bLah. wrote:On April 24 2012 20:12 MaReK wrote:On April 24 2012 20:08 bLah. wrote:
lol, it doesn't matter how "extreme" you are, if some difficulty setting is a gear check, you'll need to farm and not just run through it. And it's pretty obvious how they want casuals to finish game on normal, and everyone else to play further. My guess would be a month to beat inferno although that's totally dependant on that if someone is going to buy gear or just farm everything on it's own I bet the average quality drops will be more than enough for inferno for some players. I'll eventually try record some inferno runs with less than optimal items (maybe whites only) and one day try armor-less too. I suspect that will be close to impossible, but you never know. If you've seen any of the videos where they showcase higher difficulties you'd see that if you have bad armor you get 1 shotted. Not sure what kind of skill you think you have, but nothing can save you if you just get 1-2 shotted He also mentioned 1 day per difficulty, which to me sounds really foolish. Unless im misreading his post, of course. Normal would be real fast, i am extremely doubtful that i would spend a full day there. But im expecting this amount of time to increase drastically with the increasing difficulty. Unless Blizz screws up hardcore (which is unlikely, from what we've seen), Inferno won't be beaten solo by some guy playing by himself in 4 days. Organized groups of rotation playing (8 hours/day/person to ensure top quality performance), and gear pooling (~20 chars pooling gears into 4 chars), i can reasonably expect them to finish Inferno in 4 days. Of course, if they are the internal testers and have finished the game before, knowing perfectly what to do, this amount of time will decrease a little, but not by much. All in all, im looking at MaReK's posts as pretty much idle boasts in order to try to look cool/ lengthen e-peen. Seeing as we do not have much information on the game and it's difficulty at all, these kind of statement is mostly junk. Regarding the other guy who posted about "finishing" the game, i believe that a Diablo game is considered "finished" once you have beaten the highest difficulty (personally, i would say to beat it solo, but im sure some will disagree). As we already know, Normal is pretty much something you and your baby little sister is s'posed to be able to beat. The meat of the game (items, higher levels, more challenging monsters, gameplay) is in the later difficulties, so finishing normal is far from finishing the game, as far as i am concerned. @Condor I disagree with the Achievement part. Some people just don't care about frivolous things like getting achievements, and rather prefer just playing the game, beating up monsters to doing mundane tasks in order to complete pre-set objectives. I would say finishing Inferno would qualify as "beating the game". Cos again, Achievements most often are just mundane tasks rather than challenging ones (though im sure there are/will be exceptions)
I somewhat disagree with your disagreement. My fiance who is also a bit of a gamer does not consider a game beaten until she has all the achievements. She's currently trying to get the rest of Dragon Age's achievements including the never die one. Beating a game without dying is a very legit achievement. I found Most of the SC2 single player achievements to be worth it. I still haven't beaten it on Brutal...but I am content with beating the game up through all the achievements on the hard playthrough. Truly beating a game is 100% clearing it, achieving max level, best gear and beating all bosses even the optional ones. Whether you think achievements are a part of that or not is ultimately up to you.
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On April 25 2012 04:39 TheBJ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 01:51 Caphe wrote:
Look likes this Kenpack guy play too much WoW and give WoW boss too much credit. As a person who play WoW from the beta day, got (2nd kill of Nefarion in BWL on my server) till the end of fireland heroic. I can assure you that WoW is a casual game except for top guilds
Also, I don't know if you aware of this but when a person join a diablo game, all monster health is increased by 75%. So a group of 4 people will not fight the same monster that the one that solo does.
One week for inferno last boss, lol. You need level 60 with hell gear in order to even do act 1 in inferno..I doubt there is any person on earth that can do that in one week.
I don't know why people compare WoW with Diablo. WoW is more about getting a group of 10/25 man together than anything else. Just give me random 25 people that will play consistanly 5 hours a day I will give you every heroic there are in WoW. Same as the BL guy i've also been around top 3-25 guilds in the world from vanilla up to cata. I will bet my life that if i give u 25(40) random people ( and i mean completely random ) even if they have knowledge of gaming you will never be able to beat. Vanilla: Loatheb Viscidus Thaddius Gothik 4HM Ouro-Cthun prenerf TBC You would never even get pass the trash in SSC , not to mention the version of morogrim tidewalker with the reflecting water elementals ( very few guilds saw that ) Lady vashj prenerf Al'ar Solarian KT ( before healing aggro fix ) even after it... Not even gonna go into KJ and muru even after the interruption nerf. WoTLK OS 10man 3 drakes up Freya after she got buffed after IS killed her HM 1st week 2min hodir Firefigther prenerf phase 1-2 Yogg 0 lights But gratz on your server 2nd BWL kill , it seems you have alot of clue about diablo and wow. We can speculate alot about the true natue of how "hard" diablo 3 will be on inferno. But if its not massively overtuned like some bosses in WoW , i asure you it will be defeated under a week.
Depends on the game. Take 25 random FFXI players and they'll more than likely clear it no problem. WoW was never that difficult, at least compared to FFXI. I'd like to see WoW players try and take down Pandemonium Warden pre-nerf, Absolute Virtue pre-nerf, most of the Chains of Promethia missions pre-nerfs, Kirin, etc. all during the expansions they were set in. I doubt even a tenth of WoW players would even reach level 60, let alone 75/37 with merits pre-experience buffs.
WoW was a completely casual game. I played it for a few months and it was mind-numbingly easy and boring. Let's hope D3 is a bit more challenging.
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On April 24 2012 23:42 skyR wrote:
Ulduar was insanely overtuned, I don't know what you're talking about.
I thought it was perfectly tuned for all skill levels and ambitions. Ulduar is still considered to be the most balanced dungeon in WoW, and one the highest experiences in MMO history. But I am probably flavoring it with my own experiences.
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34863088/records%201.JPG) ![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34863088/records2.JPG) ![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34863088/records3.JPG) I have like 7 more. Too bad wowmeter kept overwriting my world records instead of storing them because on Freya I beat my own world record like 7 times and Thorim like 3 times and no one beat my original record for like 8 weeks. i think at one time they did but no one wants to see my name 6 times on every list. So you could say I had a blast.
Blizzard obviously has the potential to make games difficult and balanced but wrangling it out of them takes time and effort and the stars only align once every 5 years or so.
On April 25 2012 14:48 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 04:39 TheBJ wrote:On April 25 2012 01:51 Caphe wrote:
Look likes this Kenpack guy play too much WoW and give WoW boss too much credit. As a person who play WoW from the beta day, got (2nd kill of Nefarion in BWL on my server) till the end of fireland heroic. I can assure you that WoW is a casual game except for top guilds
Also, I don't know if you aware of this but when a person join a diablo game, all monster health is increased by 75%. So a group of 4 people will not fight the same monster that the one that solo does.
One week for inferno last boss, lol. You need level 60 with hell gear in order to even do act 1 in inferno..I doubt there is any person on earth that can do that in one week.
I don't know why people compare WoW with Diablo. WoW is more about getting a group of 10/25 man together than anything else. Just give me random 25 people that will play consistanly 5 hours a day I will give you every heroic there are in WoW. Same as the BL guy i've also been around top 3-25 guilds in the world from vanilla up to cata. I will bet my life that if i give u 25(40) random people ( and i mean completely random ) even if they have knowledge of gaming you will never be able to beat. Vanilla: Loatheb Viscidus Thaddius Gothik 4HM Ouro-Cthun prenerf TBC You would never even get pass the trash in SSC , not to mention the version of morogrim tidewalker with the reflecting water elementals ( very few guilds saw that ) Lady vashj prenerf Al'ar Solarian KT ( before healing aggro fix ) even after it... Not even gonna go into KJ and muru even after the interruption nerf. WoTLK OS 10man 3 drakes up Freya after she got buffed after IS killed her HM 1st week 2min hodir Firefigther prenerf phase 1-2 Yogg 0 lights But gratz on your server 2nd BWL kill , it seems you have alot of clue about diablo and wow. We can speculate alot about the true natue of how "hard" diablo 3 will be on inferno. But if its not massively overtuned like some bosses in WoW , i asure you it will be defeated under a week. Depends on the game. Take 25 random FFXI players and they'll more than likely clear it no problem. WoW was never that difficult, at least compared to FFXI. I'd like to see WoW players try and take down Pandemonium Warden pre-nerf, Absolute Virtue pre-nerf, most of the Chains of Promethia missions pre-nerfs, Kirin, etc. all during the expansions they were set in. I doubt even a tenth of WoW players would even reach level 60, let alone 75/37 with merits pre-experience buffs. WoW was a completely casual game. I played it for a few months and it was mind-numbingly easy and boring. Let's hope D3 is a bit more challenging.
You are entitled to your opinion but I find it based on flawed evidence. If WoW was mind numbingly easy then you would not see only the top .2% of guilds completing content for months and months (in Ulduar top .02%). Instead you would see what happens with the games opening and introductory content (normal modes) which is that everybody clears everything all at once. But no we have a clear cut gradient at the highest levels.
If you played with a guild that never attempted anything hard then.... yes?
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Why exactly are you people discussing the finer points of WoW raid tuning? Many of us have been there, some of us have played hardcore, and I think we all know that a) Blizzard is capable of designing challenging encounters and b) you can't compare a (single-player) action-RPG and a MMORPG. So please stop boasting with your intricate raid knowledge and your past accomplishment because frankly, they contribute little to nothing to the Diablo 3 difficulty discussion.
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On April 24 2012 16:27 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 14:55 NotSorry wrote:
The devs keep dropping little hints that it might be months til someone beats inferno, I would honestly be surprised if it lasts 2 weeks, to the point of taking it as a challenge to myself of doing it before then, while still maintaining my busy life style. Now sure the vast majority of players will quit the game long before even seeing the end of the 2nd or 3rd difficulty but don't underestimate gamers as a whole just because of a casual majority. firefighter
What's that again? Mimiron Hardmode? God I loved that fight!
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On April 25 2012 17:43 Shockk wrote:
Why exactly are you people discussing the finer points of WoW raid tuning? Many of us have been there, some of us have played hardcore, and I think we all know that a) Blizzard is capable of designing challenging encounters and b) you can't compare a (single-player) action-RPG and a MMORPG. So please stop boasting with your intricate raid knowledge and your past accomplishment because frankly, they contribute little to nothing to the Diablo 3 difficulty discussion.
Its talking about the developing companies ability to make difficult content to begin with. By analyzing the past we find the cycle of the future.
On April 25 2012 17:48 kafkaesque wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 16:27 skyR wrote:On April 24 2012 14:55 NotSorry wrote:
The devs keep dropping little hints that it might be months til someone beats inferno, I would honestly be surprised if it lasts 2 weeks, to the point of taking it as a challenge to myself of doing it before then, while still maintaining my busy life style. Now sure the vast majority of players will quit the game long before even seeing the end of the 2nd or 3rd difficulty but don't underestimate gamers as a whole just because of a casual majority. firefighter What's that again? Mimiron Hardmode? God I loved that fight!
That encounter was great. You can clearly see that some guy went "HOLY SHIT guys I got a great idea, fire on the floor......THAT MOVES!?" Was a perfectly tuned encounter, you didnt need to stack a certain class.
Heat seaking......heat. Too bad they added this mechanic to so many encounters as a fucking crutch.
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On April 25 2012 17:49 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 17:43 Shockk wrote:
Why exactly are you people discussing the finer points of WoW raid tuning? Many of us have been there, some of us have played hardcore, and I think we all know that a) Blizzard is capable of designing challenging encounters and b) you can't compare a (single-player) action-RPG and a MMORPG. So please stop boasting with your intricate raid knowledge and your past accomplishment because frankly, they contribute little to nothing to the Diablo 3 difficulty discussion. Its talking about the developing companies ability to make difficult content to begin with. By analyzing the past we find the cycle of the future.
Except that every time WoW comes up in a D3 thread, there's no actual discussion. Just endless repetitions of
- "WoW is casual crap"
- "Anyone could beat WoW with 25 random people"
- "You have no clue, XYZ pre-nerf was super-hardcore"
- "Actually it was well done because ..."
And after two or three pages have passed where everyone regurgitates statistics and numbers most people either already know or don't care about, people agree that both games can't really be compared or the discussion dies down ... only to be revived shortly after.
Everyone who has ever played a Blizzard game knows that they can design challenging content. Everyone who played WoW knows that there were things for everyone, from Hogger to Muru.
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Yeah but getting people to that nugget of truth is difficult but important.
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thing with diablo is that it has pretty low skill cap. of course best players will be better than casuals etc, but there really isn't all that much you can do. Only important thing is that you use right strategy for every encounter.
Because of that reason, once someone manages to beat a boss and record that so everyone can see his strategy, other people will easily do it. That's why they will put some serious gear checks so that you can't just walk into inferno with blue magic gear and destroy everything, because that would mean that bunch of other people can do it and in that scenario everyone would clear a game in under a month and then start whining about new content. They don't want that. I'd say its surely gonna take 100+ hours of gameplay for people who don't just buy all their gear through rmah
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EPT
