EPTBlizzard Games may be excluded from WCG2011 - Page 19
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Jomer
United States32 Posts
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
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mmdmmd
722 Posts
生母不及養母大. *sigh... | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5785 Posts
On February 28 2011 02:35 hmsrenown wrote: People should look up some copyright laws. Ever wondered where companies pulled those popular music from? Guess what, they paid for it. It's regrettable (read: fucking ridiculous) that Blizzard decided to enforce their copyright in this way, but by law, they were never the ones at fault. Are you implying that just because they have the IP rights to their games, they are by extension entitled to the ownership of the teams, players, broadcasts, VODs, replays, maps and related shows? I don't see how this whole issue has anything to do with enforcing copyright laws anymore. Blizzard is entitled to some compensation (e.g. in form of royalties, even though any sane person will agree that advertising their franchise to millions of people for free should be enough, especially considering sc2 wouldn't be even half as popular if it wasn't for what Korea turned BW into), however, they are not entitled to take over the whole industry other companies are investing millions of dollars into. | ||
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StimedPylon
United Kingdom29 Posts
On February 28 2011 03:58 mmdmmd wrote: Blizzard gave birth to BW 10 years ago. Then gave it up for adoption after it no longer makes a good profit. The Korean adopted BW and with years of hard work, BW grew up to became THE representative of E-Sport. Then 10 years later, the birth father (Blizz) came back and demanded that they want their abandoned child back. But Blizzard is not doing this because they love BW. It's doing it so that BW's younger brother SC2 can have a better future. 生母不及養母大. *sigh... Terrible terrible analogy that does not work for an IP. The judge would LOL all over KeSPA if this was there defense. Times have changed and if you want eSports to evolve and not die with BW then they'll have to go legal and ditch KeSPA if they really think they're above international law. BTW KeSPA started this by killing off the GOMTV Classic, they fired the first shot, now Blizz retaliated and KeSPA starts screaming "STOP KILLING ESPORTS! YOU'RE EVIL!!". They're actually hurting the credibility if eSports as of the last few years and they are clearly stuck in the past where things were more lenient. | ||
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MaYuu
Sweden516 Posts
On February 28 2011 06:25 StimedPylon wrote: Terrible terrible analogy that does not work for an IP. The judge would LOL all over KeSPA if this was there defense. Times have changed and if you want eSports to evolve and not die with BW then they'll have to go legal and ditch KeSPA if they really think they're above international law. BTW KeSPA started this by killing off the GOMTV Classic, they fired the first shot, now Blizz retaliated and KeSPA starts screaming "STOP KILLING ESPORTS! YOU'RE EVIL!!". They're actually hurting the credibility if eSports as of the last few years and they are clearly stuck in the past where things were more lenient. Yeah, KeSPA is clearly stuck in the past with having the most prestigious e-sports tournaments on earth. Sure it's not Blizzard trying to squeeze all the money they can from something they did not participate in creating. I sure miss the old blizzard north days, back when they actually made games for gamers and not for $$$$. | ||
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IronFenix
Canada27 Posts
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Rage178
United States127 Posts
On February 27 2011 12:50 aimaimaim wrote: it started last year .. when SC2 came out .. This is because when for Blizzard's puppet to start earning revenue (GOMtv) popularity for BW needs to decrease, forcing SC2 to increase popularity as the forced alternative. I don't have a problem with this. I have a problem with KeSPA trying to beat more money out of the dead horse they call SC:BW and the fact that they are essentially forcing some players to stay on BW teams, not allowing them to switch to the ever growing SC2. KeSPA is the black dragon here, I follow the blue dragon....Blizz. Expect more to come from Blizzard, Samsung is just throwing a hissy fit. | ||
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StimedPylon
United Kingdom29 Posts
On February 28 2011 06:33 MaYuu wrote: Yeah, KeSPA is clearly stuck in the past with having the most prestigious e-sports tournaments on earth. Sure it's not Blizzard trying to squeeze all the money they can from something they did not participate in creating. I sure miss the old blizzard north days, back when they actually made games for gamers and not for $$$$. What KeSPA done has been great but once they started ignoring Blizzard's plea to acknowledge their IP rights and started trying to kill any competition via aggressive tactics like not allowing the teams to join other tournaments like the GOMTV classic as well as selling broadcast rights to an IP they didn't and still don't own they wen't illegal. It's one thing to do something and not get a C&D letter and another to basically say "FUCK YOU LOL" to the IP holder. They started with very good intentions, but alas they've turned into a very cancerous corporation that is only hurting the future of eSports, for both BW and SC2 simply because they won't be able to use BW to make money for much longer. "I sure miss the old blizzard north days, back when they actually made games for gamers and not for $$$$. " This is the one of the most naive comments I've ever heard. The nostalgia glasses are really foggy these days. Most of the employees that made Blizzard North left to form their own company, Flagship Studios. They made the the disaster that was Hellgate: London before quickly dying off. | ||
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Qzy
Denmark1121 Posts
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Suvorov
294 Posts
On February 27 2011 13:46 mordk wrote: This post is so full of fail: SPORTS 1.- Can play football, soccer, basketball, volleyball, etc without supervision 2.- Can play the above officially or unoficially 3.- Can start your own tournies without paying any royalties to anyone 4.- Can profit from any business endeavours related to them 5.- Because of all the points above, there's 10000 tournaments, leagues and opportunities for rising players to shine and current starts to keep on shining Out of all those points only n°1 can be considered true. Wrong again Mr. Fail #2.- You can play a friendly match of any sport without the need for 'official' supervision, likewise, you can go ahead and play (should you qualify skillwise) an official one as well. #3.- Show me the law that dictates you cannot start a sports tournament in your neighbourhood and not have to pay royalties to any major organization. They don't 'own' the sport, they only own their 'brand' and 'seal' for the sport. #4.- No one stops you from making, say, caps, tshirts or whatever which include a generic football, football player or sport-related imagery (that of course does not include a player's face and what not which are indeed owned by the relevant club) #5.- Not much to say here except maybe open your eyes and let logic and common sense guide you. On February 27 2011 13:46 mordk wrote:As for the other ones: Each and every single country which has a soccer league has a soccer association to which all teams pay "royalties" in order to play. You need to het a license to start a tournament of nearly any sport, unless we're talking about neighborhood tournies. If I am to profit by doing business with sports I must pay advertisers, TV firms, and many many other stuff. Hell, I gotta pay tons of cash to the guys who make the ball my tourny is gonna be using. Despite the points above there's 100000 tourneys, leagues and opportunities for rising players to shine and current stars to keep on shining. You clearly missed the whole point. If you want to make - for example - 'an official' league that falls within the boundaries of FIFA's jurisdiction (and approval), then sure you gotta pay. Otherwise you're in the clear. Last but not least, who ever spoke of what teams have to pay to participate in a league? Why are you bringing up this point which has zero relation to anything discussed above? The debate here was about the ease for league creators to make their own league, not what teams pay to league owners in order to participate in their leagues. OBVIOUSLY you'll pay or give the league creator whatever he demands since it's his league and his rules, but again, that wasn't the point. On February 27 2011 13:46 mordk wrote:You need to understand, sports, like everything else, is one more business, one that moves thousands and thousands of dollars. If e-sports is going to become any biggie, it needs to be a business plain and simple, and as such it needs to be under the rules of business, and right now, those rules state that you must ask the owner of a brand in order to use said brand to earn money. This is nothing out of the ordinary. They all did not start as businesses and it is precisely the jump to business-oriented thinking which has resulted in the corruption of the game and its governing bodies, dilution of quality, rigging of games, etc. In any case, the only thing e-sports needs to grow big is proper support and exposure, not a mimicking of greed-over-logic principles prevailing in sports, which is kind of what blizzard is doing right now. Yes, you must ask the owner of a brand to use their brand. However, note that the discussion (from my part at least) was never about legal strength in the argument. YES, BLIZZARD CAN DO WHATEVER IT WANTS WITH SC2. Yes, that's very clear. The whole purpose of the discussion however is that by acting like that, selfishly, they threaten the future of e-sports which, as pointed by many before me, was not even birthed, nurtured and developed by blizzard. It was the job of korean gamers and organizers. In other words, Blizzard has the legal right to whack the future of esports and sc2 even though its a very stupid, stupid idea. On February 27 2011 13:46 mordk wrote:I understand that kespa does a big thing for BW and e-sports in general in korea, but what they do can be considered illegal, and it doesn't matter who it benefits, it's still illegal. To get to the point, if "football" "baseball" or "basketball" were registered trademarks, then their owner would receive money from anyone using them to win money, sadly for you, "starcraft" IS a trademark. Once again you miss the point Mr. Fail. The discussion was spinning around the concept of 'we want e-sports to grow as big as sports' or even better 'why doesn't e-sports grow like sports'. That's why I made the clear comparison between one and the other. If blizzard fights for its intellectual property in every god damn legally possible way, then they block out the participation of other people (like it happened in sports) and thus, they make sure that it stays as a niche kind of thing rather than a broad, mass-appeal counterpart. Had football or any other currently truly popular sport today been trademarked from the very beginning, I assure you not a singe one would be where they are today. Picture NBA reps going to every local/public basketball court or hoop in the US to stop african americans from playing without paying their due fees. Right. | ||
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sqrt
1210 Posts
On February 28 2011 08:52 Qzy wrote: I'm the only one hoping they wont include the games? Just to give blizz a "GTFO" with their law suits, etc.? Give blizz something to think about! Me too, I don't want to see a world where Blizzard's demands are met and it becomes a precedent for eSports. | ||
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SicKShoT
United States4 Posts
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uSnAmplified
United States1029 Posts
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Manifesto7
Osaka27172 Posts
On February 28 2011 09:08 Suvorov wrote: Picture NBA reps going to every local/public basketball court or hoop in the US to stop african americans from playing without paying their due fees. Right. Pretty sure some white people play basketball too yo. And don't call people "Mr. Fail". It makes me not care about your post. | ||
Spica
United States5582 Posts
 Reach approves of settling the IP case issue as soon as possible. I am not confident enough to translate the whole article word by word since that kind of information is sort of dangerous for me to handle if I mistranslate anything with my rusty Korean, so I'll just throw it out here. It's basically an article of how Reach was a panelist at a meeting held about the IP case issue, and how he shared his opinions as a progamer about the whole thing. The article also provides a little summary of the history of the case. I do have to admit that I clicked on the article because of the Mantoss, but it might be interesting to some others out there.Link: http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=40329 | ||
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
it started last year .. when SC2 came out .. This is because when for Blizzard's puppet to start earning revenue (GOMtv) popularity for BW needs to decrease, forcing SC2 to increase popularity as the forced alternative. I don't have a problem with this. I have a problem with KeSPA trying to beat more money out of the dead horse they call SC:BW and the fact that they are essentially forcing some players to stay on BW teams, not allowing them to switch to the ever growing SC2. KeSPA is the black dragon here, I follow the blue dragon....Blizz. Expect more to come from Blizzard, Samsung is just throwing a hissy fit. this is an outrageous troll of uninformed hate filled opinion with no fact or substance, this is not useful to any kind of disucusion. Somone mentioned Kespa charging OGN and MBC game for the right to boradcast thier leagues and that is a very interesting point and the first thing that has sounded like it might constitute deifnate breach of IP rights (not that I'm a lawyer or anything). We need more information about the orginal situation when the leagues where started was it legal? Why where Blizzard fine with that then. (I'm aware that this is also just my opinion but its at least not hate filled): Ultimatley I think this has to go to court because MBC and OGN don't know where they stand. They have been told to pay money for broadcasting thier leagues and thier reply is that they want a court ruleing, not because they know thier gonna win but because they don't know. I think thats the problem here we are all talking about hypothetical scenarios and trying to constructing similies with other industries, but the fact is this hasn't happened before and the only way people are gonna find out what will happen is in court. | ||
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udgnim
United States8024 Posts
I don't have a problem with this. I have a problem with KeSPA trying to beat more money out of the dead horse they call SC:BW and the fact that they are essentially forcing some players to stay on BW teams, not allowing them to switch to the ever growing SC2. mindless drivel when there are a ton of former B team BW players and retired BW players making up the Korean SC2 player base and Guemchi directly contradicts your statement going from BW to SC2 and back to BW also the BW hate is so idiotic. calling BW a dead horse when BW is bigger than SC2 in Korea. | ||
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MaYuu
Sweden516 Posts
On February 28 2011 08:35 StimedPylon wrote: What KeSPA done has been great but once they started ignoring Blizzard's plea to acknowledge their IP rights and started trying to kill any competition via aggressive tactics like not allowing the teams to join other tournaments like the GOMTV classic as well as selling broadcast rights to an IP they didn't and still don't own they wen't illegal. It's one thing to do something and not get a C&D letter and another to basically say "FUCK YOU LOL" to the IP holder. They started with very good intentions, but alas they've turned into a very cancerous corporation that is only hurting the future of eSports, for both BW and SC2 simply because they won't be able to use BW to make money for much longer. "I sure miss the old blizzard north days, back when they actually made games for gamers and not for $$$$. " This is the one of the most naive comments I've ever heard. The nostalgia glasses are really foggy these days. Most of the employees that made Blizzard North left to form their own company, Flagship Studios. They made the the disaster that was Hellgate: London before quickly dying off. KeSPA has had some made some bad decisions but trying to stick with BW sure isn't one of them. Making teams focus on OSL/MSL and ProLeague sure isn't one of them either since it's a rather logical decision, Sure I love to have English commentary but you should always put the players first. If the players do think it's to much to play in 4 leagues then why not skip the one which feels most amateur'ish? There's also the incident with referees but hey at least they improved. As for Blizzard they have not been producing as good games as before. After Vanilla WoW you could clearly see production value go down. Easy patches was made instead of fixing the wrong problem. Even in some diablo 3 producer video some guy said "We want cool spells before balance spells such as spells that purely give stats such as critical rate of attack speed" The three years blizzard has spent with Activision has really took it's toll. The first major think you can see is the no LAN feature. Activision is known for wrecking all their games, just look at the cod series who became shit after modern warfare 1. Blizzard is saying they are promoting e-sports but I have yet to see a LAN feature which is needed for top-notch competitive play. Blizzard may have many reasons for not including LAN, but supporting e-sports sure as hell ain't one of them. BW still generate a much larger audience then any SC2 game yet. Stop spewing the bullshit about BW is dying and they are trying to make the last buck out of it. Get your facts straight. The ones trying to make a buck out of it is Blizzard since they was dumb enough not to jump on the e-sports train when e-sports needed it at the most. They clearly didn't see e-sports surviving in SK but now 10 years later they go around waving their little e-sports flag and want all the credit. KeSPA and BW still has the biggest leagues with teams that actually function as a proper team. Salary and pro gaming licenses is a step that Blizzard is never willing to take. The BW world is so much more professional then the current SC2 one. What Blizzard needs to do to make this a good e-sports game is to put in LAN feature and let the community do it's magic. The way they are clawing on to it right now will get it no where. | ||
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haruk
216 Posts
Everybody understands the difference between what is Lawful and what is Right, yeah? | ||
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