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On February 27 2011 01:55 StimedPylon wrote:
Self-brainwashing can really be a powerful thing. Wow, just wow with some of the KeSPA supporters in this thread.
It's ok guys, KeSPA painted themselves in a corner and I'll enjoy watching them crash and burn epically because they were even too stubborn to even consider trying to actually negotiate.
Self-brainwashing as KeSPA supporter is also a powerful thing.
I COULD point out where you're wrong here and there, but that will just paint me as another KeSPA supporter according to your standards. So I'll say this once: Go back, read all the court sessions, as well as backgrounds of the cases. You're either missing a lot here, or ignoring a lot of facts.
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This is Samsung man !!! Samsung is showing them how this is done. It would be even better if BW is included and everything else from blizz is not. Still, it's quite good news for me.
On February 25 2011 19:56 yammeR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 19:20 Milkyst wrote:On February 25 2011 16:56 TheOnly92 wrote:
This is just ridiculous, the corporate world is trying to destroy everything! Simply quite speechless about all of their actions, afterall what ogn does is promoting BW, why is Blizzard suing anyway? ogn promotes BW, but is also making money off Blizzard's game. Blizzard wants money. I thought Blizzard was only asking for 1 dollar a year or something ridiculous like that? But that might just be hear say. Anyways I thought it wasn't about money but that Blizzard wanted OGN to recognize that everything they're making money off of is technically intellectual property of Blizzard.
They want 1 dollar for hosting ~700 tournaments and ~70.000 dollars for broadcasting a single tournament on TV from OGN and MBC. Hosting tournaments don't create problems, broadcasting on TV creates problems. At least for Blizz. I'm happy with KeSPA/OGN/MBC. Gom's service just sucks and their premium service is worse than OGN's free counterpart.
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On February 26 2011 20:52 MaYuu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 18:15 Suvorov wrote:On February 26 2011 13:17 Greg_J wrote:
Lets not forget that the Broodwar scene was created by Korea, by OGN by MBC game and by Kespa with no help at all from Blizzard. It grew bigger and bigger with help from huge corporate sponsorship from companies like Samsung. Samsung helped hugely with the formation and funding of WCG and everything was good for what 10 years. Then Blizzard came along.
The ownership stuff is so stupid , blizzard didn't create E sports Blizzard didn't do anything with Starcraft except disgard it and try to sell thier new games. Korea created Esports, companies like Sansung created Esports and then Blizzard decided 'wait we want in on this' 10 years latter when it finally looked fincailly lucrative, give us moneys. Completely agree with you Greg. It's part of the new attitude at blizzard ever since activision/vivendi took over. In the name of profits, they are literally stopping the blizz-related esports community as a whole from thriving and growing to what it should be. Often I hear the question "Why don't e-sports become as big as sports'? Gee let's see what sports have and sc2 doesn't: SPORTS 1.- Can play football, soccer, basketball, volleyball, etc without supervision 2.- Can play the above officially or unoficially 3.- Can start your own tournies without paying any royalties to anyone 4.- Can profit from any business endeavours related to them 5.- Because of all the points above, there's 10000 tournaments, leagues and opportunities for rising players to shine and current starts to keep on shining E-SPORTS (SC2 namely) 1.- CAN ONLY play it ONLINE, ONLY through battle.net supervision 2.- Can only play officially through b.net 3.- Gotta pay license fees (if they even let you run for-profit tournies) to daddy blizzard 4.- Can't seem to profit from anything related to the game unless you pay your dues 5.- Very few quality tournaments with very little access to unheard of players, let alone rising teams, the biggest of which is in Korea and well uhmm, not everybody wants/can/plans to go there Not letting people get involved closer to the game almost certainly guarantees it won't grow big. And yes blizzard, if people invest a good portion of their time into doing so, they expect profits, plain and simple. The soccer hats vendor makes a profit. The guy that sells autographed tshirts makes a profit, the guy that produces footballs makes a profit, etc. etc. How do you pretend e-sports will grow with these retarded limitations? It's a miracle SCBW became what it did despite all odds being against it. And now that Korea and its people finally made it all possible and set all the precedents...you're trying to cut them out of the game or at least steal their hard work and/or profit from it? Where were you when scbw had seemingly died (commercially) and koreans kept playing the game? Did you ever fix the b.net ladder? Did you ever organize a real tournament? Did you ever support the birth of an e-sports movement for scbw? Yeah, that's what I thought. I support Samsung/Kespa. This post is pure gold. I love you man.
wow I love all of you so much, that is so true. And ppl like Iamanton (or whatever) and Whitewing.... TL member since last october....? Please just - dont participate when you clearly dont know what you are talking about.
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If by hugely inferior you mean "focuses more on actual strategy and not as much on mechanical speed/reflexes" then yea, sure.
yeah I see mr:
User name StimedPylon
Photo None uploaded.
Joined TL.net Saturday, 29th of January 2011
You REALLY know what you are talking about after all that time on TL. You are super dedicated I see, you must be right.
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Way to kill the wave Samsung.
No offence to all pro cs/halo/shooter lovers, I love fps's myself and am one of Europas best TF2 players. But man I can't stand their constant shouting and general jocky attitude. You don't have to mimic a shy korean in style, but constantly shouting, roaring and generally overreaction to every moment of the game pisses me off: Especially because shooters are mostly more luck than RTS; You can almost always scout in a RTS, you can't ever be 100% prepared for a player to suddenly hjump out from a crate behind you.
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I forgot to add some interesting points:
If Blizzard is so in favour of promoting e-sports as a whole, explain to me why they were oblivious to the following:
1.- CHAT CHANNELS. Hello Blizzard, how did you forget the single most powerful community building tool the old b.net has? Where did people gather up to talk? Where did people gather up to get games hosted? Where did clans and teams meet? - Yes, not everybody uses IRC, Skype, private channels and 3rd party servers. In any case, 3rd party clients were made due to Blizzard's incapacity to control hackers.
2.- CLAN FUNCTIONALITY. A good step forward, missing in BW and very important for WC3. Why oh why is B.NET 2.0 devoid of this?
3.- WATCHING REPLAYS ONLINE WITH OTHER PEOPLE. Correct me if I'm wrong but, weren't replays the reason the overall level of the (dedicated) BW community went up? Being able to review your mistakes, being able to watch the pro's closely and so forth. Not to mention, being able to watch them WITH YOUR FRIENDS (or even a coach) to get even more value out of them.
No, let's not build on top of our great successful features, No, let's not stay still and just keep them, No, hell no. Let's go further back, way before the year 1998. Let's go back to a primitive set-up completely ignoring the very basics and musts learned through the last decade.
So please, don't talk about 'CARING' or 'LISTENING' to your customer base. Don't say things like 'WE'RE WORKING DILIGENTLY TO ADDRESS YOUR CONCERNS...' because quite frankly, it's all a load of crap. We'd have to be retarded to overlook the massive streak of failures you've got under your belt. Having said that, I'm sure you're well aware of what you're doing - why though, I have no idea. What is evident is that your goals are in an opposite direction to the wishes of your fans.
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On February 27 2011 05:40 Krehlmar wrote:
Especially because shooters are mostly more luck than RTS
I am going to take a long walk, followed by a hot shower.
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Sweden33723 Posts
On February 27 2011 01:55 StimedPylon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 22:32 Elroi wrote:On February 26 2011 18:15 Suvorov wrote:On February 26 2011 13:17 Greg_J wrote:
Lets not forget that the Broodwar scene was created by Korea, by OGN by MBC game and by Kespa with no help at all from Blizzard. It grew bigger and bigger with help from huge corporate sponsorship from companies like Samsung. Samsung helped hugely with the formation and funding of WCG and everything was good for what 10 years. Then Blizzard came along.
The ownership stuff is so stupid , blizzard didn't create E sports Blizzard didn't do anything with Starcraft except disgard it and try to sell thier new games. Korea created Esports, companies like Sansung created Esports and then Blizzard decided 'wait we want in on this' 10 years latter when it finally looked fincailly lucrative, give us moneys. Completely agree with you Greg. It's part of the new attitude at blizzard ever since activision/vivendi took over. In the name of profits, they are literally stopping the blizz-related esports community as a whole from thriving and growing to what it should be. Often I hear the question "Why don't e-sports become as big as sports'? Gee let's see what sports have and sc2 doesn't: SPORTS 1.- Can play football, soccer, basketball, volleyball, etc without supervision 2.- Can play the above officially or unoficially 3.- Can start your own tournies without paying any royalties to anyone 4.- Can profit from any business endeavours related to them 5.- Because of all the points above, there's 10000 tournaments, leagues and opportunities for rising players to shine and current starts to keep on shining E-SPORTS (SC2 namely) 1.- CAN ONLY play it ONLINE, ONLY through battle.net supervision 2.- Can only play officially through b.net 3.- Gotta pay license fees (if they even let you run for-profit tournies) to daddy blizzard 4.- Can't seem to profit from anything related to the game unless you pay your dues 5.- Very few quality tournaments with very little access to unheard of players, let alone rising teams, the biggest of which is in Korea and well uhmm, not everybody wants/can/plans to go there Not letting people get involved closer to the game almost certainly guarantees it won't grow big. And yes blizzard, if people invest a good portion of their time into doing so, they expect profits, plain and simple. The soccer hats vendor makes a profit. The guy that sells autographed tshirts makes a profit, the guy that produces footballs makes a profit, etc. etc. How do you pretend e-sports will grow with these retarded limitations? It's a miracle SCBW became what it did despite all odds being against it. And now that Korea and its people finally made it all possible and set all the precedents...you're trying to cut them out of the game or at least steal their hard work and/or profit from it? Where were you when scbw had seemingly died (commercially) and koreans kept playing the game? Did you ever fix the b.net ladder? Did you ever organize a real tournament? Did you ever support the birth of an e-sports movement for scbw? Yeah, that's what I thought. I support Samsung/Kespa. I would add under the reasons why e-sports can't grow like other sports that the gaming company can just shut down their current game whenever they make a new game, even if that game is hugely inferior to the previous one. I would just love I if they pulled the plug on BN2.0 when they release their next title. If by hugely inferior you mean "focuses more on actual strategy and not as much on mechanical speed/reflexes" then yea, sure. Show nested quote +Stop making shit up. KeSPA never pulled all the players. Most teams had valid reason to pull out of that shitty tournament (sure it had English caster, but overall the production level was very low, I'd say garbage compared to KeSPA leagues).
Gretech staff have made it clear they want ProLeague out of the equation since it's damaging their own league (because they can't make it good enough to appeal to their own audience). Self-brainwashing can really be a powerful thing. Wow, just wow with some of the KeSPA supporters in this thread. It's ok guys, KeSPA painted themselves in a corner and I'll enjoy watching them crash and burn epically because they were even too stubborn to even consider trying to actually negotiate.
Im pretty sure that he was speaking in hypotheticals when he said hugely inferior.
Although, as someone who is currently playing SC2 professionally, I would have to say that yes, SC2 is inferior to SC1.
However, SC1 has had way over a decade of refinements to get to this point, including an expansion - I think SC2 has a fantastic future ahead of itself.
That is, as long as Blizzard does not let politics/greed get in the way of letting the esports community develop into something healthy on its own. Im sorry Blizz, you made a great game now PLEASE let the community nurture the esports side without your meddling.
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It's kind of annoying to think that the fans are being punished because 2 companies can't seem to get along. It behooves Samsung, Blizzard, and OGN to publish and display the tournament's games on tv and online, It provides a massive amount of ratings both in korea and around the rest of the world, Not even mentioning that the SC1 players in korea that kespa holds near and dear won't be able to participate, giving less of an opportunity for players to make money and might be another incentive for them to switch to sc2 sooner rather than later, amateur or otherwise.
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Btw, this is something I've been wondering about for a while; do you SC2 guys (over there in the TL/OGS-house) follow the BW-progaming? Did you like watch the OSL-finals?
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On February 27 2011 06:09 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 01:55 StimedPylon wrote:On February 26 2011 22:32 Elroi wrote:On February 26 2011 18:15 Suvorov wrote:On February 26 2011 13:17 Greg_J wrote:
Lets not forget that the Broodwar scene was created by Korea, by OGN by MBC game and by Kespa with no help at all from Blizzard. It grew bigger and bigger with help from huge corporate sponsorship from companies like Samsung. Samsung helped hugely with the formation and funding of WCG and everything was good for what 10 years. Then Blizzard came along.
The ownership stuff is so stupid , blizzard didn't create E sports Blizzard didn't do anything with Starcraft except disgard it and try to sell thier new games. Korea created Esports, companies like Sansung created Esports and then Blizzard decided 'wait we want in on this' 10 years latter when it finally looked fincailly lucrative, give us moneys. Completely agree with you Greg. It's part of the new attitude at blizzard ever since activision/vivendi took over. In the name of profits, they are literally stopping the blizz-related esports community as a whole from thriving and growing to what it should be. Often I hear the question "Why don't e-sports become as big as sports'? Gee let's see what sports have and sc2 doesn't: SPORTS 1.- Can play football, soccer, basketball, volleyball, etc without supervision 2.- Can play the above officially or unoficially 3.- Can start your own tournies without paying any royalties to anyone 4.- Can profit from any business endeavours related to them 5.- Because of all the points above, there's 10000 tournaments, leagues and opportunities for rising players to shine and current starts to keep on shining E-SPORTS (SC2 namely) 1.- CAN ONLY play it ONLINE, ONLY through battle.net supervision 2.- Can only play officially through b.net 3.- Gotta pay license fees (if they even let you run for-profit tournies) to daddy blizzard 4.- Can't seem to profit from anything related to the game unless you pay your dues 5.- Very few quality tournaments with very little access to unheard of players, let alone rising teams, the biggest of which is in Korea and well uhmm, not everybody wants/can/plans to go there Not letting people get involved closer to the game almost certainly guarantees it won't grow big. And yes blizzard, if people invest a good portion of their time into doing so, they expect profits, plain and simple. The soccer hats vendor makes a profit. The guy that sells autographed tshirts makes a profit, the guy that produces footballs makes a profit, etc. etc. How do you pretend e-sports will grow with these retarded limitations? It's a miracle SCBW became what it did despite all odds being against it. And now that Korea and its people finally made it all possible and set all the precedents...you're trying to cut them out of the game or at least steal their hard work and/or profit from it? Where were you when scbw had seemingly died (commercially) and koreans kept playing the game? Did you ever fix the b.net ladder? Did you ever organize a real tournament? Did you ever support the birth of an e-sports movement for scbw? Yeah, that's what I thought. I support Samsung/Kespa. I would add under the reasons why e-sports can't grow like other sports that the gaming company can just shut down their current game whenever they make a new game, even if that game is hugely inferior to the previous one. I would just love I if they pulled the plug on BN2.0 when they release their next title. If by hugely inferior you mean "focuses more on actual strategy and not as much on mechanical speed/reflexes" then yea, sure. Stop making shit up. KeSPA never pulled all the players. Most teams had valid reason to pull out of that shitty tournament (sure it had English caster, but overall the production level was very low, I'd say garbage compared to KeSPA leagues).
Gretech staff have made it clear they want ProLeague out of the equation since it's damaging their own league (because they can't make it good enough to appeal to their own audience). Self-brainwashing can really be a powerful thing. Wow, just wow with some of the KeSPA supporters in this thread. It's ok guys, KeSPA painted themselves in a corner and I'll enjoy watching them crash and burn epically because they were even too stubborn to even consider trying to actually negotiate. Im pretty sure that he was speaking in hypotheticals when he said hugely inferior. Although, as someone who is currently playing SC2 professionally, I would have to say that yes, SC2 is inferior to SC1.However, SC1 has had way over a decade of refinements to get to this point, including an expansion - I think SC2 has a fantastic future ahead of itself. That is, as long as Blizzard does not let politics/greed get in the way of letting the esports community develop into something healthy on its own. Im sorry Blizz, you made a great game now PLEASE let the community nurture the esports side without your meddling.
Pure pwnage, I'm tired of reading comments about SC1 being inferior to SC2 and talking crap about SC1 is just speed and reflexes. Because u suck at SC1 doesn't mean SC2>SC1.
To keep on topic, I'm with Samsung on this one, why would they risk a lawsuit or accept ridiculous terms like not broadcasting the games (no returns on your investment) because of Blizzard greedy nature? Yeah, is bad for e-sports, WCG is the only thing known in my country but good to show Blizzard they can't go fucking everyone up with their terms, even if they give a shit on WCG.
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On February 26 2011 19:45 Zerokaiser wrote:
When everybody wants everything nobody gets anything.
So true, so true.
Allthough I think Kotick is too overambitious in getting money out of esports, they have a valid point when they want a piece of the cake. It's easier to replace a sponsor than a game. I really don't see a game company being able to offer such entertaining and esports fitting rts games. Because of that, they are in a very good position, and they know that. Maybe that will change, but not in a short period of time.
And: You cannot compare esports to football or any other sport. The circumstances are completely different.
I just hope the struggle for money doesn't hinder the growth for esports that much, but it surely does.
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On February 27 2011 06:06 Pippah wrote:![[image loading]](http://www.the-ghetto.org/content/pictures/battlenet5.jpg)
LOL, so do you mean that blizz could make very little improvement in the last 42010 years? Actually you're right in that. Except, blizz made BW.
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On February 26 2011 18:15 Suvorov wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 13:17 Greg_J wrote:
Lets not forget that the Broodwar scene was created by Korea, by OGN by MBC game and by Kespa with no help at all from Blizzard. It grew bigger and bigger with help from huge corporate sponsorship from companies like Samsung. Samsung helped hugely with the formation and funding of WCG and everything was good for what 10 years. Then Blizzard came along.
The ownership stuff is so stupid , blizzard didn't create E sports Blizzard didn't do anything with Starcraft except disgard it and try to sell thier new games. Korea created Esports, companies like Sansung created Esports and then Blizzard decided 'wait we want in on this' 10 years latter when it finally looked fincailly lucrative, give us moneys. Completely agree with you Greg. It's part of the new attitude at blizzard ever since activision/vivendi took over. In the name of profits, they are literally stopping the blizz-related esports community as a whole from thriving and growing to what it should be. Often I hear the question "Why don't e-sports become as big as sports'? Gee let's see what sports have and sc2 doesn't: SPORTS 1.- Can play football, soccer, basketball, volleyball, etc without supervision 2.- Can play the above officially or unoficially 3.- Can start your own tournies without paying any royalties to anyone 4.- Can profit from any business endeavours related to them 5.- Because of all the points above, there's 10000 tournaments, leagues and opportunities for rising players to shine and current starts to keep on shining E-SPORTS (SC2 namely) 1.- CAN ONLY play it ONLINE, ONLY through battle.net supervision 2.- Can only play officially through b.net 3.- Gotta pay license fees (if they even let you run for-profit tournies) to daddy blizzard 4.- Can't seem to profit from anything related to the game unless you pay your dues 5.- Very few quality tournaments with very little access to unheard of players, let alone rising teams, the biggest of which is in Korea and well uhmm, not everybody wants/can/plans to go there Not letting people get involved closer to the game almost certainly guarantees it won't grow big. And yes blizzard, if people invest a good portion of their time into doing so, they expect profits, plain and simple. The soccer hats vendor makes a profit. The guy that sells autographed tshirts makes a profit, the guy that produces footballs makes a profit, etc. etc. How do you pretend e-sports will grow with these retarded limitations? It's a miracle SCBW became what it did despite all odds being against it. And now that Korea and its people finally made it all possible and set all the precedents...you're trying to cut them out of the game or at least steal their hard work and/or profit from it? Where were you when scbw had seemingly died (commercially) and koreans kept playing the game? Did you ever fix the b.net ladder? Did you ever organize a real tournament? Did you ever support the birth of an e-sports movement for scbw? Yeah, that's what I thought. I support Samsung/Kespa.
You should read the contract FIFA force to the World Cup organizer country.
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On February 27 2011 08:57 Wazabo wrote:
You should read the contract FIFA force to the World Cup organizer country.
Yes, organizing 'the official world cup' in your home country does entail a huge load of requirements. Why? because it gives the home nation MILLIONS IN PROFITS. Why else do you think they all fight like dogs for the bone to host the bloody world cup every single time?
FIFA is a very corrupt organization (worth a thread of its own) but even then, they do not 'own' football, they just own the 'official' events that bear their 'seal'. You can go ahead and make a world cup yourself, if you have the time, the money and the resources to do so. Whether it succeeds or not is another story, but the thing is, you can. No one 'owns' football per se.
Because of that reason, there's plenty of football leagues and tournaments all over the planet that have helped spread, popularize and strengthen the sport.
What would be of football if FIFA banned every football event not strictly supervised by it? It would be something as poorly followed as e-sports, limited to a few, known by a few, cared for by a few.
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On February 27 2011 06:06 Pippah wrote:
I had seen that image before in the old sc2 beta b.net forums, but I must admit, I LOVE IT. It's so...simple yet straight to the point. It does make you wonder what the hell is going on with blizzard.
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I really want this IP issue to get settled definitely, surely and quickly so that everything can be clear and decided at the end. I hate those prolonged "intermediate state" where nothing is solved and more complicated problems keep happening.
Why can't they just finish everything in like 1 month ?
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So the easy answer is to just get WCG to drop samsung as a sponsor and get a new one....
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EPT
