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Why can't everyone stop being so biased. Kespa nuturing the esports community, yeah right. Like kespa would have grown to what it is if there wasn't alot of cash involved. Same with Blizzard, sure they have IP rights but they themselves haven't gotten SC/SC2 to where it's at today.
Both are big companies that, in the end, want control over potential revenue. People defending either one should really think about that.
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I think its perfectly fair to expect that if a company is using your product as a means to making money, that you should be entitled to some of that money. If your product is the sole reason for a company making money, then you have every right to expect some amount of compensation, why should they be allowed to mooch off your success?
What happens when everyone and their mother owns a copy of StarCraft 2, yet the tournaments are still going? If Blizzard are only making money from initial purchases (as it was), then these tournament companies would be collectively making more money than blizzard at the time from the advertisement and publication of the tournaments.
And really, whether the tournament company advertises the game or not is almost beside the point, it could also be seen as a subtle bribe by the tourney companies, a way of saying "don't sue us for using your game, look we advertise for you!". Perhaps it could be considered as a factor, and make the fees for using the game less, but to suggest that Blizzard aren't entitled to reap what they sow - gain any profit from tournaments using Blizzard's product to better themselves (make money), is just ludicrious. Its not how any other industry works (musicians demand royalities, as do directors/movie producers) and nor should it be.
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On March 04 2011 18:36 Rashid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2011 10:14 Asparagus wrote:On March 03 2011 22:24 Rashid wrote:On March 03 2011 21:19 pikey26 wrote:On March 03 2011 14:09 Rashid wrote:On March 03 2011 13:30 mprs wrote:On March 03 2011 13:03 Rashid wrote:On March 03 2011 10:18 ImBakedBro wrote:
this whole situation is bit dumb honestly, i understand that in korea BW had become a big part of the culture but what they have 2 understand is it is Blizzard's game, now matter how they twist or turn it and right now it just sounds like SE has a bitter taste in their mouth from feeling "fucked over" by blizzard, however complete negligence to take into consideration the way BW had been part of the culture and how these companies turned a great RTS into YEARS of entertainment blizzard is also at fault, so in short i feel as if blizzard is a candy company, these korean companies r employs who have been stealing candy from them for years, and now blizzard finally cracked down on them while they had their mouths stuffed and little did the store owner know its employees had gained a candy addiction, so basically i feel like blizzard is still in the process of getting its employees out of its store, and with WCG on the line any result here is going to be felt through out the E-sport community, its kinda sad that these big corps play such a crucial role in our entertainment.... so? it's not like kespa pirated the games. they bought the copies legit like everybody else. Kespa merely uses the game as a means to conduct sporting events, just like you buy golf clubs and balls and a country club membership card to play golf, or buy a ball and book a field to play soccer. let me put it this way, imagine your favorite sport. Lets say it's soccer. Soccer is a public sport right? Nobody owns soccer. But soccer didn't just exist out of nowhere; somebody had to invent it sometime in the past. Imagine the inventor of soccer suddenly rises from the dead one day, and not only that, he also shows undeniable proof that he created the the sport in the first place, and that he has rights to royalties paid to him for every soccer tournament ever held. Which means everyone, from you all the way to FIFA will have to pay him money every time anybody so much wants to arrange a broadcasted tounrmanent. Sounds incredibly stupid right? I understand that IP rights are meant to protect developers, but that right has been abused for far too long and far too much by greedy corporations. Except if someone was allowed to patent Soccer, they would have monopoly and could do what Blizzard is doing. I believe you are not allowed to register sports. Who says i cant? Sure i cant patent sports like soccer or football or basketball, because they've existed for so long and is considered public domain, but I could invent a new sport called Extreme Nude Footbasketball, patent it, and from now on anybody who wants to play it or makes tournaments from my game, they'll have to follow my rules and pay me royalties. Imagine if instead of SC, Blizzard instead has a patent for Soccer. Imagine that you can only play on Blizzard-certified fields with Blizzard-certified balls with Blizzard-certified rules, or else you get banned from ever playing Soccer unless you pay $60 to get your ban lifted. Imagine that every time anybody ever wants to set up a tournament, they'd have to pay Blizzard royalty fees. Imagine that in every tournament, you'll need to invite a Blizzard employee over so that they can unlock the ball so that it wont lag so much. Except Blizzard made 'Soccer' in this case. Unlike Soccer, Starcraft is NOT of the public domain. And unlike Soccer, Starcraft is NOT a real sport, it's a game, that also belongs to an intellectual property, CREATED by a currently existing and functioning company. If there was any way to prove that soccer as it exists was created by a single man or entity, and if it was actually true, then that entity or man would most certainly be all over that shit. Speaking of Soccer, FIFA? gets to act like they made soccer and they own it as the 'official' governing body, simply because there isn't exactly a real definite group that 'created' soccer to put FIFA in their place (imo the people of the world, Some South American Tribe that invented it, England, and the rest of the world, in that order). And you know what? That organization is a money grubbing, greedy, and one of the world most corrupt disaster of an institution, probably something everything that KeSPA aspires to be. There's more than just evidence that Blizzard CREATED, PUBLISHED, and OWNS the intellectual property of Starcraft. They fucking made it, they're entitled to do whatever they want with the intellectual property and the product lines from the said property. They let KeSPA do their thing for a while, and then they decided they'd rather they didn't anymore, because they want to advance their vision of where they want the intellectual property to be headed towards. Why is this so complicated? There are no good analogies for this that remotely qualify your stance.
Sadly, international laws in general are just a fucking pain in the ass, and the greedy Korean organizations are allowed to continue acting like a petulant child about being 'robbed of' something that wasn't really theirs in the first place. ps. I know as someone who doesn't post here often, that I may be out of place. If I get temp-banned for this, I understand. I just felt it had to be said. This IS a forum after all. The complicated thing is just because Blizzard CREATED, PUBLISHED and OWN the intellectual property of Starcraft, that doesn't mean they own THE PROFESSIONAL GAMING SCENE that was grown and cultured largely by Kespa. Tell me, how many other Blizzard games that have survived for so long in competitive gaming with so many players like Starcraft? The answer is ZERO. I assure you, without Kespa actually making a commitment in growing the profesional gaming scene, Starcraft would have died 6-7 years ago or even sooner, regardless of how 'balanced' or 'great' 'or unique' the game was. Even the success of SCII was largely riding on the popularity of Starcraft 1 profesional scene, you know, the same exact professional scene that Kespa has spent years nurturing? It's like i rented a a rickety apartment from you, and then i furnished that apartment with all the cool furniture and wallpaper and carpeting and cool entertainment system and airconditioning and and fixed the plumbing and lighting and shit, and then 5 months later suddenly you decided you want your apartment back along with all the improvements i've made to the apartment including all the furniture and stuff, and when i told you that i made all those improvements, you tell me that i can stay but my rent is gonna be raised because the place looks soooo much nicer now. But hey that's greedy corporations for you. blizzard owes kespa or any other esport company absolutely nothing. at the end of the day unless you want to buy blizzard out you'll do what they say if it means paying royalties towards their game used in tourneys/live streams/etc, just stfu and do it or don't play the game. it's that simple. I wish they'd lessen their hold on the product but that's not the case anymore. you think they care about a small community like esports? they got enough money to pump out wow expansions till it dies like guitar hero. blizzard owes kespa and the professional scene in general EVERYTHING. It's the reason why their games are selling like hotcakes. Do you honestly think that games like Starcraft will have anybody playing for +10 years if it werent for kespa promoting or organizing tournamants? you want to know what Starcraft 2 would have been like if the professional scene for the first Starcraft 1 never existed? Look for games like CnC3 and Red Alert 3. Both of those games are leagues above Starcraft 2 in terms of gameplay, innovation, and fun, and they were both made specifically for online competitive gaming in mind, but hoho both games collapsed and forgotten because nobody cares about them anymore. And then EA no longer gives a damn and churn out a shitty CnC4 before promptly firing the whole CnC team so they can relocate their budget to make more war shooters lol. look at it this way, there is a reason why Starcraft and Broodwar are still selling at a reasonable price after more than 10 years while games like CnC Red Alert and Tiberium Sun are now free for download at EA's official site, and it sure as hell isn't because of nostalgia.
You make this sound like a backyard debate.
KeSPA wound up finding a way for them to prosper using Blizzards' PROPERTY that also happens help Blizzard.
It doesn't change the fact that it's still Blizzard's property.
Unless KeSPA can prove on legal grounds that official terms were set between Blizzard and KeSPA previously (there hasn't been any) for KeSPA uninterrupted and continued use of Blizzard's IP for doing what they do, KeSPA can't say jack. They don't have the right to. And you've got to stop making analogies that turn Blizzard's PRODUCT into a tangible object. Intellectual Properties are not just tangible objects, it is all things that are tied into the tangible objects in question.
On a side note, who's to say the 4.2 million copies sold in Korea were all thanks to KESPA? Maybe they only helped to sell an additional million at most, or maybe even less, and well after the price cuts. Unless someone has a history of Starcraft sales over the 10 years, their arguement that Blizzard owes everything to KeSPA is also moot. Most of Blizzard's games (not including WoW) sell bulk of their shares in the first 2 years at most (most games don't sell beyond a year), at least that is what I recall based on the PRs I do remember for Diablo 2, Warcraft 3, and etc.
And even if KeSPA has benefited Blizzard before, KeSPA clearly hasn't considered whose IP they've been working this whole time with before they started get petulant about what THEY did for Blizzard. If Gom.tv can afford to make arrangements with Blizzard, I am inclined to think the breakdown probably had more to do with just how much Blizzard wanted KeSPA to pay them, if any at all. This whole deal jsut looks more like the negotiations and talks broke down, and whoever was holding the sword (Blizzard) got aggravated enough by a certain someone else.
And ignoring the actual owner and creator of the IP and saying KeSPA made Blizzard what it is is ridiculous. Without Blizzard, KeSPA would have never seen the light of day. While without KeSPA, Blizzard would have just lost some tail-end sales that most companies aren't as worried about anyway.
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On March 04 2011 19:10 XenoX101 wrote:
I think its perfectly fair to expect that if a company is using your product as a means to making money, that you should be entitled to some of that money. If your product is the sole reason for a company making money, then you have every right to expect some amount of compensation, why should they be allowed to mooch off your success?
What happens when everyone and their mother owns a copy of StarCraft 2, yet the tournaments are still going? If Blizzard are only making money from initial purchases (as it was), then these tournament companies would be collectively making more money than blizzard at the time from the advertisement and publication of the tournaments.
And really, whether the tournament company advertises the game or not is almost beside the point, it could also be seen as a subtle bribe by the tourney companies, a way of saying "don't sue us for using your game, look we advertise for you!". Perhaps it could be considered as a factor, and make the fees for using the game less, but to suggest that Blizzard aren't entitled to reap what they sow - gain any profit from tournaments using Blizzard's product to better themselves (make money), is just ludicrious. Its not how any other industry works (musicians demand royalities, as do directors/movie producers) and nor should it be.
Yea interesting point. A lot of musicians today (mainstream ones), make a bulk of their money that they don't make working their ass off for on tours from licensing. Any time a TV show, a movie, an ad, or another artist uses their songs.
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On March 04 2011 20:25 pikey26 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2011 18:36 Rashid wrote:On March 04 2011 10:14 Asparagus wrote:On March 03 2011 22:24 Rashid wrote:On March 03 2011 21:19 pikey26 wrote:On March 03 2011 14:09 Rashid wrote:On March 03 2011 13:30 mprs wrote:On March 03 2011 13:03 Rashid wrote:On March 03 2011 10:18 ImBakedBro wrote:
this whole situation is bit dumb honestly, i understand that in korea BW had become a big part of the culture but what they have 2 understand is it is Blizzard's game, now matter how they twist or turn it and right now it just sounds like SE has a bitter taste in their mouth from feeling "fucked over" by blizzard, however complete negligence to take into consideration the way BW had been part of the culture and how these companies turned a great RTS into YEARS of entertainment blizzard is also at fault, so in short i feel as if blizzard is a candy company, these korean companies r employs who have been stealing candy from them for years, and now blizzard finally cracked down on them while they had their mouths stuffed and little did the store owner know its employees had gained a candy addiction, so basically i feel like blizzard is still in the process of getting its employees out of its store, and with WCG on the line any result here is going to be felt through out the E-sport community, its kinda sad that these big corps play such a crucial role in our entertainment.... so? it's not like kespa pirated the games. they bought the copies legit like everybody else. Kespa merely uses the game as a means to conduct sporting events, just like you buy golf clubs and balls and a country club membership card to play golf, or buy a ball and book a field to play soccer. let me put it this way, imagine your favorite sport. Lets say it's soccer. Soccer is a public sport right? Nobody owns soccer. But soccer didn't just exist out of nowhere; somebody had to invent it sometime in the past. Imagine the inventor of soccer suddenly rises from the dead one day, and not only that, he also shows undeniable proof that he created the the sport in the first place, and that he has rights to royalties paid to him for every soccer tournament ever held. Which means everyone, from you all the way to FIFA will have to pay him money every time anybody so much wants to arrange a broadcasted tounrmanent. Sounds incredibly stupid right? I understand that IP rights are meant to protect developers, but that right has been abused for far too long and far too much by greedy corporations. Except if someone was allowed to patent Soccer, they would have monopoly and could do what Blizzard is doing. I believe you are not allowed to register sports. Who says i cant? Sure i cant patent sports like soccer or football or basketball, because they've existed for so long and is considered public domain, but I could invent a new sport called Extreme Nude Footbasketball, patent it, and from now on anybody who wants to play it or makes tournaments from my game, they'll have to follow my rules and pay me royalties. Imagine if instead of SC, Blizzard instead has a patent for Soccer. Imagine that you can only play on Blizzard-certified fields with Blizzard-certified balls with Blizzard-certified rules, or else you get banned from ever playing Soccer unless you pay $60 to get your ban lifted. Imagine that every time anybody ever wants to set up a tournament, they'd have to pay Blizzard royalty fees. Imagine that in every tournament, you'll need to invite a Blizzard employee over so that they can unlock the ball so that it wont lag so much. Except Blizzard made 'Soccer' in this case. Unlike Soccer, Starcraft is NOT of the public domain. And unlike Soccer, Starcraft is NOT a real sport, it's a game, that also belongs to an intellectual property, CREATED by a currently existing and functioning company. If there was any way to prove that soccer as it exists was created by a single man or entity, and if it was actually true, then that entity or man would most certainly be all over that shit. Speaking of Soccer, FIFA? gets to act like they made soccer and they own it as the 'official' governing body, simply because there isn't exactly a real definite group that 'created' soccer to put FIFA in their place (imo the people of the world, Some South American Tribe that invented it, England, and the rest of the world, in that order). And you know what? That organization is a money grubbing, greedy, and one of the world most corrupt disaster of an institution, probably something everything that KeSPA aspires to be. There's more than just evidence that Blizzard CREATED, PUBLISHED, and OWNS the intellectual property of Starcraft. They fucking made it, they're entitled to do whatever they want with the intellectual property and the product lines from the said property. They let KeSPA do their thing for a while, and then they decided they'd rather they didn't anymore, because they want to advance their vision of where they want the intellectual property to be headed towards. Why is this so complicated? There are no good analogies for this that remotely qualify your stance.
Sadly, international laws in general are just a fucking pain in the ass, and the greedy Korean organizations are allowed to continue acting like a petulant child about being 'robbed of' something that wasn't really theirs in the first place. ps. I know as someone who doesn't post here often, that I may be out of place. If I get temp-banned for this, I understand. I just felt it had to be said. This IS a forum after all. The complicated thing is just because Blizzard CREATED, PUBLISHED and OWN the intellectual property of Starcraft, that doesn't mean they own THE PROFESSIONAL GAMING SCENE that was grown and cultured largely by Kespa. Tell me, how many other Blizzard games that have survived for so long in competitive gaming with so many players like Starcraft? The answer is ZERO. I assure you, without Kespa actually making a commitment in growing the profesional gaming scene, Starcraft would have died 6-7 years ago or even sooner, regardless of how 'balanced' or 'great' 'or unique' the game was. Even the success of SCII was largely riding on the popularity of Starcraft 1 profesional scene, you know, the same exact professional scene that Kespa has spent years nurturing? It's like i rented a a rickety apartment from you, and then i furnished that apartment with all the cool furniture and wallpaper and carpeting and cool entertainment system and airconditioning and and fixed the plumbing and lighting and shit, and then 5 months later suddenly you decided you want your apartment back along with all the improvements i've made to the apartment including all the furniture and stuff, and when i told you that i made all those improvements, you tell me that i can stay but my rent is gonna be raised because the place looks soooo much nicer now. But hey that's greedy corporations for you. blizzard owes kespa or any other esport company absolutely nothing. at the end of the day unless you want to buy blizzard out you'll do what they say if it means paying royalties towards their game used in tourneys/live streams/etc, just stfu and do it or don't play the game. it's that simple. I wish they'd lessen their hold on the product but that's not the case anymore. you think they care about a small community like esports? they got enough money to pump out wow expansions till it dies like guitar hero. blizzard owes kespa and the professional scene in general EVERYTHING. It's the reason why their games are selling like hotcakes. Do you honestly think that games like Starcraft will have anybody playing for +10 years if it werent for kespa promoting or organizing tournamants? you want to know what Starcraft 2 would have been like if the professional scene for the first Starcraft 1 never existed? Look for games like CnC3 and Red Alert 3. Both of those games are leagues above Starcraft 2 in terms of gameplay, innovation, and fun, and they were both made specifically for online competitive gaming in mind, but hoho both games collapsed and forgotten because nobody cares about them anymore. And then EA no longer gives a damn and churn out a shitty CnC4 before promptly firing the whole CnC team so they can relocate their budget to make more war shooters lol. look at it this way, there is a reason why Starcraft and Broodwar are still selling at a reasonable price after more than 10 years while games like CnC Red Alert and Tiberium Sun are now free for download at EA's official site, and it sure as hell isn't because of nostalgia. You make this sound like a backyard debate. KeSPA wound up finding a way for them to prosper using Blizzards' PROPERTY that also happens help Blizzard. It doesn't change the fact that it's still Blizzard's property. Unless KeSPA can prove on legal grounds that official terms were set between Blizzard and KeSPA previously (there hasn't been any) for KeSPA uninterrupted and continued use of Blizzard's IP for doing what they do, KeSPA can't say jack. They don't have the right to. And you've got to stop making analogies that turn Blizzard's PRODUCT into a tangible object. Intellectual Properties are not just tangible objects, it is all things that are tied into the tangible objects in question. On a side note, who's to say the 4.2 million copies sold in Korea were all thanks to KESPA? Maybe they only helped to sell an additional million at most, or maybe even less, and well after the price cuts. Unless someone has a history of Starcraft sales over the 10 years, their arguement that Blizzard owes everything to KeSPA is also moot. Most of Blizzard's games (not including WoW) sell bulk of their shares in the first 2 years at most (most games don't sell beyond a year), at least that is what I recall based on the PRs I do remember for Diablo 2, Warcraft 3, and etc. And even if KeSPA has benefited Blizzard before, KeSPA clearly hasn't considered whose IP they've been working this whole time with before they started get petulant about what THEY did for Blizzard. If Gom.tv can afford to make arrangements with Blizzard, I am inclined to think the breakdown probably had more to do with just how much Blizzard wanted KeSPA to pay them, if any at all. This whole deal jsut looks more like the negotiations and talks broke down, and whoever was holding the sword (Blizzard) got aggravated enough by a certain someone else. And ignoring the actual owner and creator of the IP and saying KeSPA made Blizzard what it is is ridiculous. Without Blizzard, KeSPA would have never seen the light of day. While without KeSPA, Blizzard would have just lost some tail-end sales that most companies aren't as worried about anyway.
Based on this post, it's clear you haven't followed the whole issue before. Gretech basically got the broadcasting rights for free because they agreed to being blizzard's puppet and represent them in the court.
The reason why they agreed to those terms is because they're some insignificant utility software developer and do not have even a fraction of what KeSPA has to offer. Blizzard demanded the rights to the players, teams, broadcasting materials and so on. The only thing gretech had at that time was a crappy BW league, pretty much. The deal was jackpot for them, whereas from KeSPA's perspective it looked like blizzard telling them "keep investing millions of dollars into the scene/business while we take the ownership of everything".
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On March 04 2011 10:14 Asparagus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2011 22:24 Rashid wrote:On March 03 2011 21:19 pikey26 wrote:On March 03 2011 14:09 Rashid wrote:On March 03 2011 13:30 mprs wrote:On March 03 2011 13:03 Rashid wrote:On March 03 2011 10:18 ImBakedBro wrote:
this whole situation is bit dumb honestly, i understand that in korea BW had become a big part of the culture but what they have 2 understand is it is Blizzard's game, now matter how they twist or turn it and right now it just sounds like SE has a bitter taste in their mouth from feeling "fucked over" by blizzard, however complete negligence to take into consideration the way BW had been part of the culture and how these companies turned a great RTS into YEARS of entertainment blizzard is also at fault, so in short i feel as if blizzard is a candy company, these korean companies r employs who have been stealing candy from them for years, and now blizzard finally cracked down on them while they had their mouths stuffed and little did the store owner know its employees had gained a candy addiction, so basically i feel like blizzard is still in the process of getting its employees out of its store, and with WCG on the line any result here is going to be felt through out the E-sport community, its kinda sad that these big corps play such a crucial role in our entertainment.... so? it's not like kespa pirated the games. they bought the copies legit like everybody else. Kespa merely uses the game as a means to conduct sporting events, just like you buy golf clubs and balls and a country club membership card to play golf, or buy a ball and book a field to play soccer. let me put it this way, imagine your favorite sport. Lets say it's soccer. Soccer is a public sport right? Nobody owns soccer. But soccer didn't just exist out of nowhere; somebody had to invent it sometime in the past. Imagine the inventor of soccer suddenly rises from the dead one day, and not only that, he also shows undeniable proof that he created the the sport in the first place, and that he has rights to royalties paid to him for every soccer tournament ever held. Which means everyone, from you all the way to FIFA will have to pay him money every time anybody so much wants to arrange a broadcasted tounrmanent. Sounds incredibly stupid right? I understand that IP rights are meant to protect developers, but that right has been abused for far too long and far too much by greedy corporations. Except if someone was allowed to patent Soccer, they would have monopoly and could do what Blizzard is doing. I believe you are not allowed to register sports. Who says i cant? Sure i cant patent sports like soccer or football or basketball, because they've existed for so long and is considered public domain, but I could invent a new sport called Extreme Nude Footbasketball, patent it, and from now on anybody who wants to play it or makes tournaments from my game, they'll have to follow my rules and pay me royalties. Imagine if instead of SC, Blizzard instead has a patent for Soccer. Imagine that you can only play on Blizzard-certified fields with Blizzard-certified balls with Blizzard-certified rules, or else you get banned from ever playing Soccer unless you pay $60 to get your ban lifted. Imagine that every time anybody ever wants to set up a tournament, they'd have to pay Blizzard royalty fees. Imagine that in every tournament, you'll need to invite a Blizzard employee over so that they can unlock the ball so that it wont lag so much. Except Blizzard made 'Soccer' in this case. Unlike Soccer, Starcraft is NOT of the public domain. And unlike Soccer, Starcraft is NOT a real sport, it's a game, that also belongs to an intellectual property, CREATED by a currently existing and functioning company. If there was any way to prove that soccer as it exists was created by a single man or entity, and if it was actually true, then that entity or man would most certainly be all over that shit. Speaking of Soccer, FIFA? gets to act like they made soccer and they own it as the 'official' governing body, simply because there isn't exactly a real definite group that 'created' soccer to put FIFA in their place (imo the people of the world, Some South American Tribe that invented it, England, and the rest of the world, in that order). And you know what? That organization is a money grubbing, greedy, and one of the world most corrupt disaster of an institution, probably something everything that KeSPA aspires to be. There's more than just evidence that Blizzard CREATED, PUBLISHED, and OWNS the intellectual property of Starcraft. They fucking made it, they're entitled to do whatever they want with the intellectual property and the product lines from the said property. They let KeSPA do their thing for a while, and then they decided they'd rather they didn't anymore, because they want to advance their vision of where they want the intellectual property to be headed towards. Why is this so complicated? There are no good analogies for this that remotely qualify your stance.
Sadly, international laws in general are just a fucking pain in the ass, and the greedy Korean organizations are allowed to continue acting like a petulant child about being 'robbed of' something that wasn't really theirs in the first place. ps. I know as someone who doesn't post here often, that I may be out of place. If I get temp-banned for this, I understand. I just felt it had to be said. This IS a forum after all. The complicated thing is just because Blizzard CREATED, PUBLISHED and OWN the intellectual property of Starcraft, that doesn't mean they own THE PROFESSIONAL GAMING SCENE that was grown and cultured largely by Kespa. Tell me, how many other Blizzard games that have survived for so long in competitive gaming with so many players like Starcraft? The answer is ZERO. I assure you, without Kespa actually making a commitment in growing the profesional gaming scene, Starcraft would have died 6-7 years ago or even sooner, regardless of how 'balanced' or 'great' 'or unique' the game was. Even the success of SCII was largely riding on the popularity of Starcraft 1 profesional scene, you know, the same exact professional scene that Kespa has spent years nurturing? It's like i rented a a rickety apartment from you, and then i furnished that apartment with all the cool furniture and wallpaper and carpeting and cool entertainment system and airconditioning and and fixed the plumbing and lighting and shit, and then 5 months later suddenly you decided you want your apartment back along with all the improvements i've made to the apartment including all the furniture and stuff, and when i told you that i made all those improvements, you tell me that i can stay but my rent is gonna be raised because the place looks soooo much nicer now. But hey that's greedy corporations for you. blizzard owes kespa or any other esport company absolutely nothing. at the end of the day unless you want to buy blizzard out you'll do what they say if it means paying royalties towards their game used in tourneys/live streams/etc, just stfu and do it or don't play the game. it's that simple. I wish they'd lessen their hold on the product but that's not the case anymore. you think they care about a small community like esports? they got enough money to pump out wow expansions till it dies like guitar hero.
Yes... lets do that... lets all do that...
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sigh... noobs be qq'ing....
im sure it will blow over, starcraft is one of WGC biggest attractions.
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On February 26 2011 04:59 shabbit wrote:
Why are people saying Blizzard screwed themselves? Granted, this may lock them out of more future tournaments later on, but the professional scene to play Blizzard games is already there and Blizzard's ultimate control of their IP rights ensures that they get more net profit from that than from any unascertainable growth from advertising that WCG and the like gives them.
Now if they were struggling to get advertisers and professionals invested in their games, then the battle over IP rights may have screwed Blizzard. I haven't seen any evidence of that though so Blizzard looks to have made the right business decision by going to war for the IP rights.
No offence but the words right and wrong dont belong in a sentance with business unless you are talking about making and losing money.
There is no doubt it was a profitable decision, but it was not the right decision
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Yeah I'm beginning to see that side of the issue. Though I still believe Blizzard's IP rights are ultimately theirs, it's hard to get behind their brute force tactics to wrest away total control of the competitive gaming scene away from KeSPA although the latter company didn't have any rights to the game. This was a scene where a symbiotic relationship could have formed - but Blizzard wanted full control and ultimately screwed the admittedly for-profit organization that did so much for the SC pro scene.
Though I agree that Blizzard's tactics here are not endearing, I likely would have done the same as they did. If I let things stay in KeSPA's hands and later disagreed with the way they were doing things, it would be much more difficult to pursue legal action after they had established themselves in SC2.
An alternative hypothetical, such as free-market competition (i.e. Blizzard-Gom vs. KeSPA both competing within the SC2 pro scene economically rather than legally) might be pretty entertaining, but would ultimately be less profitable. Plus, if the two sides didn't allow their players to play each other in tourneys (And that would be likely considering how hostile they've been in this argument), it would have been bad for the sport as a whole. Loosely using another sport metaphor, it'd be akin to the ABA-NBA competition in the 70's, which wasn't good for pro basketball until they merged.
I still believe in the necessity of IP rights to reward ingenuity and design, but Blizzard wielded that right like a sledgehammer.
PS - Does anybody else see the Blizzard-Apple parallels?
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Any new information on this topic? sorry for the bump.
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On March 10 2011 01:13 shabbit wrote:
Yeah I'm beginning to see that side of the issue. Though I still believe Blizzard's IP rights are ultimately theirs, it's hard to get behind their brute force tactics to wrest away total control of the competitive gaming scene away from KeSPA although the latter company didn't have any rights to the game. This was a scene where a symbiotic relationship could have formed - but Blizzard wanted full control and ultimately screwed the admittedly for-profit organization that did so much for the SC pro scene.
Though I agree that Blizzard's tactics here are not endearing, I likely would have done the same as they did. If I let things stay in KeSPA's hands and later disagreed with the way they were doing things, it would be much more difficult to pursue legal action after they had established themselves in SC2.
An alternative hypothetical, such as free-market competition (i.e. Blizzard-Gom vs. KeSPA both competing within the SC2 pro scene economically rather than legally) might be pretty entertaining, but would ultimately be less profitable. Plus, if the two sides didn't allow their players to play each other in tourneys (And that would be likely considering how hostile they've been in this argument), it would have been bad for the sport as a whole. Loosely using another sport metaphor, it'd be akin to the ABA-NBA competition in the 70's, which wasn't good for pro basketball until they merged.
I still believe in the necessity of IP rights to reward ingenuity and design, but Blizzard wielded that right like a sledgehammer.
PS - Does anybody else see the Blizzard-Apple parallels?
Blizzard owns the IP to the actual game, not the broadcasting of the gameplay which includes the player's competitions, the commentaries, the LAN network, the editing and many other things. Sure, they are entitled to some of the revenue generated by the broadcasts but they have no right to the players, the teams or anything else.
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does that mean dota is not gonna be there too, wow....
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EPT
