EPTBlizzard Games may be excluded from WCG2011 - Page 15
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Phanekim
United States777 Posts
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StimedPylon
United Kingdom29 Posts
They're trying to take as much of everything they can since they know they can only stall their defeat in the courts. Basically like a BM Terran floating to an island and making 10 turrets. | ||
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zobz
Canada2175 Posts
And all this talk about how Blizzard is making "enough" money already, and how they should just "make us happy" is making me sick. Blizzard has the right to make as much or as little money as they want and the right to please or piss off whoever they want, because it's their game. Having bought a copy of the game from them, you have the right to play it. Not to burn copies of it and sell it on the street. Not the right to run a sponsored tournament they don't approve of. Not to force Blizzard to run such a tournament for your enjoyment. Not to force Blizzard to approve of someone else running such a League that you already enjoy. | ||
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Taku
Canada2036 Posts
On February 26 2011 10:01 StimedPylon wrote: KeSPA killing eSports by proxy via Samsung, good going. Instead of helping eSports, grow let's have a feud. Just Pathetic. They're trying to take as much of everything they can since they know they can only stall their defeat in the courts. Basically like a BM Terran floating to an island and making 10 turrets. For the nth time, Samsung is part of Kespa... | ||
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fxSolo
United States42 Posts
On February 26 2011 10:02 zobz wrote: People keep saying that Blizzard is not gaining anything from this. They are not of course running a BW league of their own that can compete with any of the ones in question. They are however running a huge SC2 league, and probably other leagues which are paying royalties, which are very much in competition with those BW leagues. Just think of all the extra revenue Bliz would be bringing in if SC2 was the only game around anymore, instead of having to compete with this huge mafia organization, KeSPA, that basically highjacked their older game and sells it as their own. Remember that Blizzard tried to run their own competing BW league, the GomTV Invitational, but KeSPA shut them the fuck down by forcing all of the top athletes to boycott the league, specifically and explicitly because it was sponsored by Blizzard. And all this talk about how Blizzard is making "enough" money already, and how they should just "make us happy" is making me sick. Blizzard has the right to make as much or as little money as they want and the right to please or piss off whoever they want, because it's their game. Having bought a copy of the game from them, you have the right to play it. Not to burn copies of it and sell it on the street. Not the right to run a sponsored tournament they don't approve of. Not to force Blizzard to run such a tournament for your enjoyment. Not to force Blizzard to approve of someone else running such a League that you already enjoy. This. Blizzard wants to ensure that there is an incentive to actually be able to make great games and make a profit off of them. It's a company, not a charity. Losing rights to IP is a deterrent to them making games and goes against what I would assume are the company's long term goals. Everyone is worried about BW leagues dying and that's a legitimate concern but shouldn't we also worry about the companies that actually produce the games and push e-sports forward though design? | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50119 Posts
On February 26 2011 09:36 Phanekim wrote: blizzard will win this war and they know it. you have no idea of the ramifications,of their victory. | ||
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Suvorov
294 Posts
In a way, I'm glad SAMSUNG is blocking Blizzard from participating in the WCG, I can only hope that this will somehow lead to a 'loosening' of the obstacles Blizzard has put in place for SC2 events to happen without its knowledge and/or supervision. I hate Vivendi and I hate Activision, they're turning Blizzard into a profits-mongering machine rapidly stripping the company of what made it successful in the first place. | ||
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supernovamaniac
United States3046 Posts
On February 26 2011 10:01 StimedPylon wrote: KeSPA killing eSports by proxy via Samsung, good going. Instead of helping eSports, grow let's have a feud. Just Pathetic. They're trying to take as much of everything they can since they know they can only stall their defeat in the courts. Basically like a BM Terran floating to an island and making 10 turrets. Except Blizzard is killing the BW scene by trying to force BW players into SC2 scene. Good going. | ||
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zobz
Canada2175 Posts
On February 26 2011 11:39 Suvorov wrote: When you create something you own it, and you decide who you give it to and on what terms you give it to them. If someone doesn't like your terms it's also their right not to deal with you. Blizzard gave you their game on the explicit terms that, first, you pay 20 bucks for it, and second you not try and profit from it without consulting them. It's one thing to say that you don't like their terms or that you grudgingly accept them. It's another thing to say that it's not right for them to give away what they own on whichever terms they choose. To say that, because you disagree with their terms, that gives you a right to lie and steal your way into ownership of their property, is utterly retarded.Blizzard's fault for being so anal about how and where people play their games. This all began with the removal of the LAN feature. Blizzard is basically saying, you will only play my games when, where and how I want to. Very nice from a corporate perspective but utter bullshit for us gamers. In a way, I'm glad SAMSUNG is blocking Blizzard from participating in the WCG, I can only hope that this will somehow lead to a 'loosening' of the obstacles Blizzard has put in place for SC2 events to happen without its knowledge and/or supervision. I hate Vivendi and I hate Activision, they're turning Blizzard into a profits-mongering machine rapidly stripping the company of what made it successful in the first place. | ||
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deth
Australia1757 Posts
Ugh. | ||
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
The ownership stuff is so stupid , blizzard didn't create E sports Blizzard didn't do anything with Starcraft except disgard it and try to sell thier new games. Korea created Esports, companies like Sansung created Esports and then Blizzard decided 'wait we want in on this' 10 years latter when it finally looked fincailly lucrative, give us moneys. | ||
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zaii
Guam2611 Posts
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var username
52 Posts
On February 26 2011 13:17 Greg_J wrote: Lets not forget that the Broodwar scene was created by Korea, by OGN by MBC game and by Kespa with no help at all from Blizzard. It grew bigger and bigger with help from huge corporate sponsorship from companies like Samsung. Samsung helped hugely with the formation and funding of WCG and everything was good for what 10 years. Then Blizzard came along. The ownership stuff is so stupid , blizzard didn't create E sports Blizzard didn't do anything with Starcraft except disgard it and try to sell thier new games. Korea created Esports, companies like Sansung created Esports and then Blizzard decided 'wait we want in on this' 10 years latter when it finally looked fincailly lucrative, give us moneys. This. So many people above just don't get it  | ||
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StimedPylon
United Kingdom29 Posts
On February 26 2011 12:04 supernovamaniac wrote: Except Blizzard is killing the BW scene by trying to force BW players into SC2 scene. Good going. [citation required] They'd just pull the BW servers and send C&D letters to all the illegal servers such as ICCup if they wanted to really kill the BW fanbase. Also BW has helped eSports all it could, clinging to it now is just gonna kill other potential new great games besides SC2. KeSPA doesn't even care about other games, they seem them as a threat to to their BW milking via the illegal broadcast fees they get. They know Blizzard will win the within a year, maybe two at the most and they're just gonna suck as much as possible. | ||
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Terrakin
United States1440 Posts
On February 26 2011 13:17 Greg_J wrote: Lets not forget that the Broodwar scene was created by Korea, by OGN by MBC game and by Kespa with no help at all from Blizzard. It grew bigger and bigger with help from huge corporate sponsorship from companies like Samsung. Samsung helped hugely with the formation and funding of WCG and everything was good for what 10 years. Then Blizzard came along. The ownership stuff is so stupid , blizzard didn't create E sports Blizzard didn't do anything with Starcraft except disgard it and try to sell thier new games. Korea created Esports, companies like Sansung created Esports and then Blizzard decided 'wait we want in on this' 10 years latter when it finally looked fincailly lucrative, give us moneys. I thought the BW scene was created because of PC Bang owners who wanted the best players in their netcafes to bring in more excitement/competition which in turns brings more people to the cafe. These PC Bang owners formed the clans, which turned into teams then created Kespa to think about players rights. I mean I wasn't around during those times though so I have no real bearing, this is just what I remember from reading. | ||
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
On February 26 2011 13:38 StimedPylon wrote: [citation required] They'd just pull the BW servers and send C&D letters to all the illegal servers such as ICCup if they wanted to really kill the BW fanbase. Also BW has helped eSports all it could, clinging to it now is just gonna kill other potential new great games besides SC2. KeSPA doesn't even care about other games, they seem them as a threat to to their BW milking via the illegal broadcast fees they get. They know Blizzard will win the within a year, maybe two at the most and they're just gonna suck as much as possible. citation needed?? did you read the demands in court by blizzard?? On January 28 2011 15:26 Milkis wrote: Brief Summary of what happened in the first court session
- MBC also requested that the case be classified a bit more specific than Blizzard's case for simple IP rights violation, and the judges also requested that Blizzard submit any precedent cases regarding IP rights violations in America that is related - MBC and OGN will be defended together in this case - The judge asked "isn't this something that should end via negotiation". Blizzard Lawyer responded "Yes", and the MBC lawyer responded that they would prefer a decision -- because this is the first case regarding game IP rights, they would like to figure out the legal boundaries of how much of the game they an use. - Blizzard is suing MBC for 350,000,000 won. Second session took place today on the 28th. Some notes.
- The key point of the trial was related to who the damages would be paid to, the duration of the damages, and the compensation. This is because even though Gretech only got a license on May, Blizzard and Gretech both requested compensation from damages. In response, the Judges ordered that the damages be split between the prosecuting parties [3], and that they recalculate the amount requested and the duration of the damages and then resubmit the damages. - The judge also ordered the prosecution to prove the fact that defendants had violated IP rights. - The defendants also pointed out that the English contracts between Gretech and Blizzard included an article about a transition from Starcraft to Starcraft 2 [4], and requested that the prosecution explain themselves, as it strange for Blizzard to claim rights to a BW, as Blizzard had no intentions to hold Brood War tournaments. The judges also ordered that this happen, and Blizzard lawyers answered "They cannot address that in the middle of the lawsuit" - Third trial will take place on March 18th. Translation Notes [1] apparently MBC is allowed to request this in the case where the opposing party is foreign -- basically, if MBC wins the case, Blizzard will have to compensate MBC for the law fees [2] Blizzard is implied, not 100% sure [3] I'm thinking there's an error here -- since it refers to prosecution, so it would relate to Gretech/Blizzard, but the article claims MBC/OGN. [4] "Transition to StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty : Organizer will use its best efforts to make smooth transition from Starcraft I to Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and its expansions("Starcraft2") and to make smooth transition of professional players from Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2 from the time Starcraft 2 becoms available for play." was the original English on that article Sources: http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?category=13438&id=581185 http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=546149&category=102 http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=39412 no care for other games?? they have other games beside SC:BW under their wings (SF, Tekken) .. people need to follow what happened at the courts before this WCG fiasco before posting stuff like these .. + Show Spoiler + edit | ||
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onedayclose
United States1145 Posts
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lazyfeet
United States468 Posts
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Suvorov
294 Posts
On February 26 2011 13:17 Greg_J wrote: Lets not forget that the Broodwar scene was created by Korea, by OGN by MBC game and by Kespa with no help at all from Blizzard. It grew bigger and bigger with help from huge corporate sponsorship from companies like Samsung. Samsung helped hugely with the formation and funding of WCG and everything was good for what 10 years. Then Blizzard came along. The ownership stuff is so stupid , blizzard didn't create E sports Blizzard didn't do anything with Starcraft except disgard it and try to sell thier new games. Korea created Esports, companies like Sansung created Esports and then Blizzard decided 'wait we want in on this' 10 years latter when it finally looked fincailly lucrative, give us moneys. Completely agree with you Greg. It's part of the new attitude at blizzard ever since activision/vivendi took over. In the name of profits, they are literally stopping the blizz-related esports community as a whole from thriving and growing to what it should be. Often I hear the question "Why don't e-sports become as big as sports'? Gee let's see what sports have and sc2 doesn't: SPORTS 1.- Can play football, soccer, basketball, volleyball, etc without supervision 2.- Can play the above officially or unoficially 3.- Can start your own tournies without paying any royalties to anyone 4.- Can profit from any business endeavours related to them 5.- Because of all the points above, there's 10000 tournaments, leagues and opportunities for rising players to shine and current starts to keep on shining E-SPORTS (SC2 namely) 1.- CAN ONLY play it ONLINE, ONLY through battle.net supervision 2.- Can only play officially through b.net 3.- Gotta pay license fees (if they even let you run for-profit tournies) to daddy blizzard 4.- Can't seem to profit from anything related to the game unless you pay your dues 5.- Very few quality tournaments with very little access to unheard of players, let alone rising teams, the biggest of which is in Korea and well uhmm, not everybody wants/can/plans to go there Not letting people get involved closer to the game almost certainly guarantees it won't grow big. And yes blizzard, if people invest a good portion of their time into doing so, they expect profits, plain and simple. The soccer hats vendor makes a profit. The guy that sells autographed tshirts makes a profit, the guy that produces footballs makes a profit, etc. etc. How do you pretend e-sports will grow with these retarded limitations? It's a miracle SCBW became what it did despite all odds being against it. And now that Korea and its people finally made it all possible and set all the precedents...you're trying to cut them out of the game or at least steal their hard work and/or profit from it? Where were you when scbw had seemingly died (commercially) and koreans kept playing the game? Did you ever fix the b.net ladder? Did you ever organize a real tournament? Did you ever support the birth of an e-sports movement for scbw? Yeah, that's what I thought. I support Samsung/Kespa. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On February 26 2011 13:48 aimaimaim wrote: + Show Spoiler + On February 26 2011 13:38 StimedPylon wrote: [citation required] They'd just pull the BW servers and send C&D letters to all the illegal servers such as ICCup if they wanted to really kill the BW fanbase. Also BW has helped eSports all it could, clinging to it now is just gonna kill other potential new great games besides SC2. KeSPA doesn't even care about other games, they seem them as a threat to to their BW milking via the illegal broadcast fees they get. They know Blizzard will win the within a year, maybe two at the most and they're just gonna suck as much as possible. citation needed?? did you read the demands in court by blizzard?? On January 28 2011 15:26 Milkis wrote: Brief Summary of what happened in the first court session
- MBC also requested that the case be classified a bit more specific than Blizzard's case for simple IP rights violation, and the judges also requested that Blizzard submit any precedent cases regarding IP rights violations in America that is related - MBC and OGN will be defended together in this case - The judge asked "isn't this something that should end via negotiation". Blizzard Lawyer responded "Yes", and the MBC lawyer responded that they would prefer a decision -- because this is the first case regarding game IP rights, they would like to figure out the legal boundaries of how much of the game they an use. - Blizzard is suing MBC for 350,000,000 won. Second session took place today on the 28th. Some notes.
- The key point of the trial was related to who the damages would be paid to, the duration of the damages, and the compensation. This is because even though Gretech only got a license on May, Blizzard and Gretech both requested compensation from damages. In response, the Judges ordered that the damages be split between the prosecuting parties [3], and that they recalculate the amount requested and the duration of the damages and then resubmit the damages. - The judge also ordered the prosecution to prove the fact that defendants had violated IP rights. - The defendants also pointed out that the English contracts between Gretech and Blizzard included an article about a transition from Starcraft to Starcraft 2 [4], and requested that the prosecution explain themselves, as it strange for Blizzard to claim rights to a BW, as Blizzard had no intentions to hold Brood War tournaments. The judges also ordered that this happen, and Blizzard lawyers answered "They cannot address that in the middle of the lawsuit" - Third trial will take place on March 18th. Translation Notes [1] apparently MBC is allowed to request this in the case where the opposing party is foreign -- basically, if MBC wins the case, Blizzard will have to compensate MBC for the law fees [2] Blizzard is implied, not 100% sure [3] I'm thinking there's an error here -- since it refers to prosecution, so it would relate to Gretech/Blizzard, but the article claims MBC/OGN. [4] "Transition to StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty : Organizer will use its best efforts to make smooth transition from Starcraft I to Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and its expansions("Starcraft2") and to make smooth transition of professional players from Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2 from the time Starcraft 2 becoms available for play." was the original English on that article Sources: http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?category=13438&id=581185 http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=546149&category=102 http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=39412 no care for other games?? they have other games beside SC:BW under their wings (SF, Tekken) .. people need to follow what happened at the courts before this WCG fiasco before posting stuff like these .. + Show Spoiler + edit The problem with the "forced BW to SC2" argument is that it the clause was only from a contract between Gretech and Blizzard, not OGN/MBC and Blizzard. After KeSPA pulled all the players and teams out of the GOM Classic tournaments, GOM had ZERO presence in the BW scene. Unless the same clause is found in proposed contracts between OGN/MBC and Blizzard, I don't think it's correct to assume that Blizzard is forcing a transition. And though KeSPA administers other games, their main focus has always been BW, and their attention on other games is negligible compared to that of BW. Also, I think Blizzard's stance is much deeper than simply greed. They've been trying to negotiate since 2007, and they couldn't really negotiate before due to the lack of the 2007 US-Korea trade agreement that provided a legal groundwork for negotiating foreign IP rights in Korea. Also, Blizzard didn't even merge with Activision until 2008. The current lawsuit is the result of a few key disagreements that were never really addressed since the beginning of the negotiations. Plus, it seems that Blizzard's tournament "fees" are mainly limited to the Korean broadcasting stations. It seems that all other tournaments and organizations never complain about it, probably because most of them almost never have to deal with fees in the first place. Anyways, Samsung is really damaging e-sports with their decision. Without Blizzard games or Samsung's support, WCG is pretty much dead, which is a huge blow to e-sports since it will be detrimental to a lot of other non-Blizzard games. Samsung is making a huge statement at a huge cost. | ||
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