EPT[Spoiler] Next Bonjwa? - Page 16
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wwooaa
Croatia179 Posts
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Guss
Sweden712 Posts
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QuoC
United States724 Posts
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
No wonder this discussion is going nowhere... | ||
Atrioc
United States1865 Posts
On March 03 2009 10:31 Cambium wrote: sixteen pages in, still not a concrete definition of "bonjwa" No wonder this discussion is going nowhere... the discussion is going nowhere because its a stupid discussion bisu is not a bonjwa by any definition other than "highest rated player right now" (which is not an accepted definition) he doenst have an osl title, a commanding lead in ELO or Kespa points, a winning record vs his rivals, a better winner's league/proleague performance than his rivals, a long stretch at kespa #1, and most importantly + Show Spoiler + he just lost to the #2 in a best of 5, despite promising to win the series if he won the first game. bonjwas dont do that | ||
disciple
9070 Posts
On March 03 2009 10:44 Atrioc wrote: the discussion is going nowhere because its a stupid discussion bisu is not a bonjwa by any definition other than "highest rated player right now" (which is not an accepted definition) he doenst have an osl title, a commanding lead in ELO or Kespa points, a winning record vs his rivals, a better winner's league/proleague performance than his rivals, a long stretch at kespa #1, and most importantly + Show Spoiler + he just lost to the #2 in a best of 5, despite promising to win the series if he won the first game. bonjwas dont do that and just when the winning record against the rivals became a bonjwa factor, statistically all the previous kings were getting owned by someone in particular , boxer- garimto, oov- july, savior-bisu. By pure winning percentage Bisu is performing not worse than the so called bonjwas during their primes, but the thing is that KTY can not make a considerable gap between JD,Flash and himself. They are just playing so very good as well. For one to shine,another need to suck at the same time, you know... | ||
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Atrioc
United States1865 Posts
On March 03 2009 10:54 disciple wrote: and just when the winning record against the rivals became a bonjwa factor, statistically all the previous kings were getting owned by someone in particular , boxer- garimto, oov- july, savior-bisu. By pure winning percentage Bisu is performing not worse than the so called bonjwas during their primes, but the thing is that KTY can not make a considerable gap between JD,Flash and himself. They are just playing so very good as well. For one to shine,another need to suck at the same time, you know... Your examples are suspect since: #1 - Boxer has a winning record over Garimto, 6-3, and Garimto could hardly be considered a rival. #2 - Oov has a winning record over July, 13-12, and the only time he met up with July in a finals situation (with money on the line) he won 3-0 e-z. That is what a bonjwa does to their rivals. #3 - Bisu was never savior's rival. They didnt meet at all until Gom TV MSL S1 finals, and Bisu's victory simply ended sAviOr's reign. And lastly, saying that the other good players need to start sucking in order for Bisu to shine is the wrong way of looking at it. Bisu needs to play better. Right now he isnt dominant, just consistently good. | ||
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Kyo Yuy
United States1286 Posts
And in fact, I would rather that he never become a bonjwa. For it seems that, when people become so impeccably dominant that they don't think they can lose, they gain (at least internally) a huge ego that causes them to be unable to accept defeat when someone finally stops their domination streak. As Bisu says, all the bonjwas of the past have ended up falling into a deep abyss and never attaining the same high caliber of skill that they were known for having. I'd rather Bisu be a really consistent player that just manages to keep winning as time passes, as opposed to a completely dominant, overpowering player that ends up falling into the abyss after THAT ONE PLAYER manages to completely topple him. Even if Jaedong is better than Bisu, I think only blind fanboys and hardcore anti fanboys can say that Jaedong is VASTLY SUPERIOR to Bisu. In my opinion, sometimes Jaedong plays better and sometimes Bisu plays better, similar to the Lee-Ssang rivalry between Jaedong and Flash. But why does it matter if Bisu is bonjwa or not? He's a good player who revolutionized the essence of PvZ. That's good enough for me.  | ||
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Atrioc
United States1865 Posts
On March 03 2009 11:31 Kyo Yuy wrote: As a Bisu fan, I will say that Bisu is not a bonjwa. And in fact, I would rather that he never become a bonjwa. For it seems that, when people become so impeccably dominant that they don't think they can lose, they gain (at least internally) a huge ego that causes them to be unable to accept defeat when someone finally stops their domination streak. As Bisu says, all the bonjwas of the past have ended up falling into a deep abyss and never attaining the same high caliber of skill that they were known for having. I'd rather Bisu be a really consistent player that just manages to keep winning as time passes, as opposed to a completely dominant, overpowering player that ends up falling into the abyss after THAT ONE PLAYER manages to completely topple him. Even if Jaedong is better than Bisu, I think only blind fanboys and hardcore anti fanboys can say that Jaedong is VASTLY SUPERIOR to Bisu. In my opinion, sometimes Jaedong plays better and sometimes Bisu plays better, similar to the Lee-Ssang rivalry between Jaedong and Flash. But why does it matter if Bisu is bonjwa or not? He's a good player who revolutionized the essence of PvZ. That's good enough for me. this is a good post you are a good bisu fan and any jaedong fan that thinks he is vastly superior to bisu is dumb as hell after those games (+ their proleague games + that game they had on blue storm a year ago) bisu/jaedong/flash are all so fucking close it can go either way almost every time | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On March 03 2009 11:08 Atrioc wrote: #2 - Oov has a winning record over July, 13-12, and the only time he met up with July in a finals situation (with money on the line) he won 3-0 e-z. That is what a bonjwa does to their rivals. Oov lost 1-3 in the ITV finals. | ||
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Atrioc
United States1865 Posts
Sorry I didnt know that was for money. Still with iTV going out of business and all + Oov having a winning record overall vs July, I think the point still stands. Oov fought a tough opponent but he came out ahead overall. | ||
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Flamboyant
United States57 Posts
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On March 03 2009 11:49 Atrioc wrote: Sorry I didnt know that was for money. Still with iTV going out of business and all + Oov having a winning record overall vs July, I think the point still stands. Oov fought a tough opponent but he came out ahead overall. eh, Oov's reign was over before he took the lead in the head to head and plus... xellos | ||
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MutaDoom
Canada1163 Posts
On March 03 2009 12:05 Mindcrime wrote: eh, Oov's reign was over before he took the lead in the head to head and plus... xellos That name brings only one thought... pain. Seo Ji Hoon was a fucking monster. | ||
Last Romantic
United States20661 Posts
A bonjwa is granted the title [insofar as the title is a bestowed honor] by popular acclaim and general consent. Since there is obviously no consent on Bisu being a bonjwa, he cannot therefore be one. It is only logical. | ||
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Guybrush
Spain4744 Posts
NaDa 3 OSLs Oov 2 OSLs Savior 1 OSL Bisu 0 OSL(?) Maybe Savior will be the last one of the 3-MSLers to win an OSL. Enjoy the Flash/Jaedong/Bisu rivalry as long as you can, because JD and Bisu will most likely slow down(not be the #1s of their race) in 2-3 years since they're already 19 years old. NaDa is the rare exception as he was the best Terran in during Shinhan2/3/masters back in 2006/2007 at the age of 23. | ||
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Atrioc
United States1865 Posts
On March 03 2009 12:37 Guybrush wrote: The Bonjwa pattern has holes as well NaDa 3 OSLs Oov 2 OSLs Savior 1 OSL Bisu 0 OSL(?) No, because its still only the 1st OSL that takes place during the "Bonjwa reign" NaDa has 3 OSL's, but two are from radically different time periods. To say the OSL he got over anytime in 2006 is from the same "bonjwa" period as the OSL he won over Chojja in 2003 is ludicrious. Same with Oov's 2nd OSL title, which only came after he was raped 5-0 by sAviOr in CYON (and by Xellos) and was clearly no longer the Monster/Bonjwa. For all we know sAviOr could win an OSL next season - but the 3msl1osl pattern wouldnt change. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On March 03 2009 14:07 Atrioc wrote: No, because its still only the 1st OSL that takes place during the "Bonjwa reign" NaDa has 3 OSL's, but two are from radically different time periods. To say the OSL he got over anytime in 2006 is from the same "bonjwa" period as the OSL he won over Chojja in 2003 is ludicrious. Same with Oov's 2nd OSL title, which only came after he was raped 5-0 by sAviOr in CYON (and by Xellos) and was clearly no longer the Monster/Bonjwa. For all we know sAviOr could win an OSL next season - but the 3msl1osl pattern wouldnt change. which is kinda funny. If you want to say Bisu is bonjwa, either his bonjwa period was 2 years ago when he won the MSLs, or its now when he has a chance to win an OSL winning the two with a two year gap inbetween doesnt really count. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On March 03 2009 10:31 Cambium wrote: sixteen pages in, still not a concrete definition of "bonjwa" No wonder this discussion is going nowhere... bonjwa (n): 1  sAviOr CJ Entus 2107 2  NaDa Pantech Ex 1662 3 Iris CJ Entus 1096.3 quite simply, bonjwa is being dominant. So dominant that only four players in the entire history of starcraft can lay claim to it despite all the big names. | ||
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TicTacToe
China21 Posts
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