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On January 30 2017 21:52 evolsiefil wrote:
i find it weird how so many in this thread are thinking in black and white only. there is those who are like whatever he just cheated in a videogame let him play again and those who are like lol what he did was so severe he shouldve gotten 50 years of hard labor.
the reality however is this. it was his first offense for all we know and the kid paid for it. he spend 2 month in jail, has a few additonal years on probation, had to pay a signifacant amount of money AND was banned from competitive play for over a year now. with all due respect to those who believe otherwise, i strongly believe he should be allowed to redeem himself. publicly apologize and be allowed to compete again on probation.
everyone deserves a second chance, especially after they took their punishment like a man.
and just for the record, if he wanted to, i think he could. kespa is gone from sc2, and i highly doubt blizzard would insist on a perma ban like kespa did. if he formally apologized and asked for a second chance, im 100% positive they would allow it.
I'm sure Blizzard removed Life's name from the Blizzcon trophy and GSL removed him from their wall of champions to signify that they'd be willing to give him a second chance.
The reality is this - as much as some people might want him to return, you have to realize, even if he were allowed to, it wouldn't be a good idea for him to actually do it. Return to the stage of the greatest failure in his life? Constantly confronted with the venom of the Korean fans who will never forgive him for the damage he did to their scene? Maybe run into match-fixers once more and run into the same trouble all over again? Why would he want any of this?
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On January 30 2017 22:03 quirinus wrote:
If a lawyer does something illegal, he can never be a lawyer again, and he'll be tried. Why should it be different for gamers?
if a football player, a baseball player, a nba player etc does something illegal, most of the time they can come back after they served their sentence. why should it be different for gamers?
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China6330 Posts
On January 30 2017 22:08 evolsiefil wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2017 22:03 quirinus wrote:
If a lawyer does something illegal, he can never be a lawyer again, and he'll be tried. Why should it be different for gamers? if a football player, a baseball player, a nba player etc does something illegal, most of the time they can come back after they served their sentence. why should it be different for gamers?
Matchfixing in traditional sports mostly result in long bans as well.
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On January 30 2017 06:32 seopthi wrote:
Tl;dr: At least in Western culture, everyone should get a second chance. He did a wrong thing as a teenager under unknown circumstances and should be allowed to come out, explain what happened, apologize for it, and be an ambassador against shadiness that will still exist in any sport — as many players, previously banned for much worse things, have done in other sports.
A match fixer an ambassador against shadiness? I would find that shady in itself.
Fixing matches undermines the validity of a tournament. We don't want to see scripted entertainment, we want to see competition. The competition must not be tainted. If you fix a match, you deserve no second chance in this profession, nor an ambassadorial role. If you allow second chances, it would speak to all "Hey, just try and fix a match. If you don't get caught, good. If you get caught, take your second chance." I think that would be unfair to all who are playing by the rules.
Yes, the Life story is tragic. Showing any mercy to match fixing however could result in more fixed matches. I am not against special leagues in which fixing is allowed. But if you play a normal tournament, you cannot allow a player being bought off to lose a match.
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On January 30 2017 22:08 evolsiefil wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2017 22:03 quirinus wrote:
If a lawyer does something illegal, he can never be a lawyer again, and he'll be tried. Why should it be different for gamers? if a football player, a baseball player, a nba player etc does something illegal, most of the time they can come back after they served their sentence. why should it be different for gamers?
I do think the penalty is a bit too harsh, but they can't change the precedent now. It should also depend on the case.
Banning a player for a few years is not that much different from banning them forever.
I'm not sure how they handle things like that in Korea, it might be different to other parts of the world.
The lawyer thing is forever/harsher probably because they can ruin people's lives.
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United States23455 Posts
On January 30 2017 22:10 digmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2017 22:08 evolsiefil wrote:On January 30 2017 22:03 quirinus wrote:
If a lawyer does something illegal, he can never be a lawyer again, and he'll be tried. Why should it be different for gamers? if a football player, a baseball player, a nba player etc does something illegal, most of the time they can come back after they served their sentence. why should it be different for gamers? Matchfixing in traditional sports mostly result in long bans as well.
Yeah Pete Rose was banned from baseball for life for betting as an owner and he didn't even bet on his own games.
Odd though how when you're found guilty of assault or domestic abuse you get suspended for two games lol
Anyways, I was a huuuuuuuuuuuge fan of Life but I don't really want people adding to his "defense". Just let it go and forget about him. It's healthier for everyone. What he did was pretty terrible and SC2 has to completely move on from him. That includes the people I saw saying "His punishment should've been even more severe!" My strategy for not getting mad/sad about this is to just not think about him at all anymore.
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Bisutopia19299 Posts
OP certainly can have his own opinion. The opinions I want to hear though are from the sponsors and organizers. In SC1 there was so much pressure put on sponsors who were now stuck in a position where there money means sponsoring illegal betting or even worse the people behind the illegal betting. That bad image can't happen. Meanwhile the organizers are having to convince sponsors that this isn't a systematic problem and that they can overcome it. This happening again in SC2 means that it is systematic and that KESPA/organizers failed a second time to circumvent the problem. They are the ones that suffered and no amount of money paid back from Life could ever recover the damages match fixing caused.
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Lol pls don't compare Life to Lance Armstrong.
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It's simple. Have all the dumb people who bet not bet and there would be no matchfixing. Stop blaming champions like Life for other's shortcomings.
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On January 30 2017 22:49 Skynx wrote:
Lol pls don't compare Life to Lance Armstrong.
Might have missed it but none but you did that for the moment :p
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If all you get for matchfixing is a year or two ban from sc2, there is very little incentive not to matchfix to for a player a bit past his prime.
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On January 30 2017 22:30 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2017 22:10 digmouse wrote:On January 30 2017 22:08 evolsiefil wrote:On January 30 2017 22:03 quirinus wrote:
If a lawyer does something illegal, he can never be a lawyer again, and he'll be tried. Why should it be different for gamers? if a football player, a baseball player, a nba player etc does something illegal, most of the time they can come back after they served their sentence. why should it be different for gamers? Matchfixing in traditional sports mostly result in long bans as well. Yeah Pete Rose was banned from baseball for life for betting as an owner and he didn't even bet on his own games. Odd though how when you're found guilty of assault or domestic abuse you get suspended for two games lol Anyways, I was a huuuuuuuuuuuge fan of Life but I don't really want people adding to his "defense". Just let it go and forget about him. It's healthier for everyone. What he did was pretty terrible and SC2 has to completely move on from him. That includes the people I saw saying "His punishment should've been even more severe!" My strategy for not getting mad/sad about this is to just not think about him at all anymore.
with new evidence coming to light in the Pete Rose betting scandal the facts have changed several times. Your current version of the facts is outdated.
Rose bet ON THE REDS AS A PLAYER. An important factor is that he never bet AGAINST his own team. He did not actually throw games away and lose intentionally. Still , he has inside info no one else has about both teams giving him a huge advantage as a bettor and making him vulnerable to influence from the CRIMINAL SYNDICATE he placed bets with. He placed bets with ORGANIZED CRIMINALS not in a Las Vegas legal casino.
http://www.sbnation.com/2015/6/22/8825465/pete-rose-gambling-reinstatement-outside-the-lines
Now if Pete Rose were very poorly paid and a criminal gambling syndicate paid him millions to throw games i would not blame him one bit. But, that is not the case here. Rose was very well paid throughout his playing and management career. People moralizing about people who throw games must keep in mind the context. If the player is being paid almost nothing to play a game where large bets are made we're setting up an environment for match fixing.
PAY THE PLAYERS a decent minimum salary to mitigate the urge to take a pay-off for match fixing
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United States23455 Posts
On January 30 2017 23:54 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2017 22:30 Darkhorse wrote:On January 30 2017 22:10 digmouse wrote:On January 30 2017 22:08 evolsiefil wrote:On January 30 2017 22:03 quirinus wrote:
If a lawyer does something illegal, he can never be a lawyer again, and he'll be tried. Why should it be different for gamers? if a football player, a baseball player, a nba player etc does something illegal, most of the time they can come back after they served their sentence. why should it be different for gamers? Matchfixing in traditional sports mostly result in long bans as well. Yeah Pete Rose was banned from baseball for life for betting as an owner and he didn't even bet on his own games. Odd though how when you're found guilty of assault or domestic abuse you get suspended for two games lol Anyways, I was a huuuuuuuuuuuge fan of Life but I don't really want people adding to his "defense". Just let it go and forget about him. It's healthier for everyone. What he did was pretty terrible and SC2 has to completely move on from him. That includes the people I saw saying "His punishment should've been even more severe!" My strategy for not getting mad/sad about this is to just not think about him at all anymore. with new evidence coming to light in the Pete Rose betting scandal the facts have changed several times. Your current version of the facts is outdated. Rose bet ON THE REDS AS A PLAYER. An important factor is that he never bet AGAINST his own team. He did not actually throw games away and lose intentionally. Still , he has inside info no one else has about both teams giving him a huge advantage as a bettor and making him vulnerable to influence from the CRIMINAL SYNDICATE he placed bets with. He placed bets with ORGANIZED CRIMINALS not in a Las Vegas legal casino. http://www.sbnation.com/2015/6/22/8825465/pete-rose-gambling-reinstatement-outside-the-linesNow if Pete Rose were very poorly paid and a criminal gambling syndicate paid him millions to throw games i would not blame him one bit. But, that is not the case here. Rose was very well paid throughout his playing and management career. People moralizing about people who throw games must keep in mind the context. If the player is being paid almost nothing to play a game where large bets are made we're setting up an environment for match fixing. PAY THE PLAYERS a decent minimum salary to mitigate the urge to take a pay-off for match fixing
My lack of actual baseball knowledge has been exposed. There was a drunk guy at the sports bar last week ranting to me about how it is a crime against humanity that Pete Rose isn't in the HoF
But my point was really just that the guy saying that professional sports players can come back after doing something illegal was wrong e.g. Pete Rose
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On January 30 2017 22:05 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2017 21:52 evolsiefil wrote:
i find it weird how so many in this thread are thinking in black and white only. there is those who are like whatever he just cheated in a videogame let him play again and those who are like lol what he did was so severe he shouldve gotten 50 years of hard labor.
the reality however is this. it was his first offense for all we know and the kid paid for it. he spend 2 month in jail, has a few additonal years on probation, had to pay a signifacant amount of money AND was banned from competitive play for over a year now. with all due respect to those who believe otherwise, i strongly believe he should be allowed to redeem himself. publicly apologize and be allowed to compete again on probation.
everyone deserves a second chance, especially after they took their punishment like a man.
and just for the record, if he wanted to, i think he could. kespa is gone from sc2, and i highly doubt blizzard would insist on a perma ban like kespa did. if he formally apologized and asked for a second chance, im 100% positive they would allow it. I'm sure Blizzard removed Life's name from the Blizzcon trophy and GSL removed him from their wall of champions to signify that they'd be willing to give him a second chance. The reality is this - as much as some people might want him to return, you have to realize, even if he were allowed to, it wouldn't be a good idea for him to actually do it. Return to the stage of the greatest failure in his life? Constantly confronted with the venom of the Korean fans who will never forgive him for the damage he did to their scene? Maybe run into match-fixers once more and run into the same trouble all over again? Why would he want any of this?
He might become the ultimate supervillian of SC2 if he returns. Innovation vs Life in 2017 could become the SC2 equivalent of Usain Bolt vs Justin Gatlin, and it might just be epic... just sayin' 
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United States23455 Posts
On January 31 2017 00:33 Clazziquai10 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2017 22:05 Elentos wrote:On January 30 2017 21:52 evolsiefil wrote:
i find it weird how so many in this thread are thinking in black and white only. there is those who are like whatever he just cheated in a videogame let him play again and those who are like lol what he did was so severe he shouldve gotten 50 years of hard labor.
the reality however is this. it was his first offense for all we know and the kid paid for it. he spend 2 month in jail, has a few additonal years on probation, had to pay a signifacant amount of money AND was banned from competitive play for over a year now. with all due respect to those who believe otherwise, i strongly believe he should be allowed to redeem himself. publicly apologize and be allowed to compete again on probation.
everyone deserves a second chance, especially after they took their punishment like a man.
and just for the record, if he wanted to, i think he could. kespa is gone from sc2, and i highly doubt blizzard would insist on a perma ban like kespa did. if he formally apologized and asked for a second chance, im 100% positive they would allow it. I'm sure Blizzard removed Life's name from the Blizzcon trophy and GSL removed him from their wall of champions to signify that they'd be willing to give him a second chance. The reality is this - as much as some people might want him to return, you have to realize, even if he were allowed to, it wouldn't be a good idea for him to actually do it. Return to the stage of the greatest failure in his life? Constantly confronted with the venom of the Korean fans who will never forgive him for the damage he did to their scene? Maybe run into match-fixers once more and run into the same trouble all over again? Why would he want any of this? He might become the ultimate supervillian of SC2 if he returns. Innovation vs Life in 2017 could become the SC2 equivalent of Usain Bolt vs Justin Gatlin, and it might just be epic... just sayin'
Except pretty much everyone knew that Bolt would beat Gatlin. Hasn't Gatlin never beaten him? Whereas Inno vs Life has always been back and forth 
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On January 31 2017 00:14 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2017 23:54 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 30 2017 22:30 Darkhorse wrote:On January 30 2017 22:10 digmouse wrote:On January 30 2017 22:08 evolsiefil wrote:On January 30 2017 22:03 quirinus wrote:
If a lawyer does something illegal, he can never be a lawyer again, and he'll be tried. Why should it be different for gamers? if a football player, a baseball player, a nba player etc does something illegal, most of the time they can come back after they served their sentence. why should it be different for gamers? Matchfixing in traditional sports mostly result in long bans as well. Yeah Pete Rose was banned from baseball for life for betting as an owner and he didn't even bet on his own games. Odd though how when you're found guilty of assault or domestic abuse you get suspended for two games lol Anyways, I was a huuuuuuuuuuuge fan of Life but I don't really want people adding to his "defense". Just let it go and forget about him. It's healthier for everyone. What he did was pretty terrible and SC2 has to completely move on from him. That includes the people I saw saying "His punishment should've been even more severe!" My strategy for not getting mad/sad about this is to just not think about him at all anymore. with new evidence coming to light in the Pete Rose betting scandal the facts have changed several times. Your current version of the facts is outdated. Rose bet ON THE REDS AS A PLAYER. An important factor is that he never bet AGAINST his own team. He did not actually throw games away and lose intentionally. Still , he has inside info no one else has about both teams giving him a huge advantage as a bettor and making him vulnerable to influence from the CRIMINAL SYNDICATE he placed bets with. He placed bets with ORGANIZED CRIMINALS not in a Las Vegas legal casino. http://www.sbnation.com/2015/6/22/8825465/pete-rose-gambling-reinstatement-outside-the-linesNow if Pete Rose were very poorly paid and a criminal gambling syndicate paid him millions to throw games i would not blame him one bit. But, that is not the case here. Rose was very well paid throughout his playing and management career. People moralizing about people who throw games must keep in mind the context. If the player is being paid almost nothing to play a game where large bets are made we're setting up an environment for match fixing. PAY THE PLAYERS a decent minimum salary to mitigate the urge to take a pay-off for match fixing My lack of actual baseball knowledge has been exposed. There was a drunk guy at the sports bar last week ranting to me about how it is a crime against humanity that Pete Rose isn't in the HoF But my point was really just that the guy saying that professional sports players can come back after doing something illegal was wrong e.g. Pete Rose
imo, Rose is receiving the correct punishment.
+ Show Spoiler +betting on your own team using a CRIME SYNDICATE to take your bets compromises your position as a player; IF you lose the bet the crime syndicate wants you to do them a favour.
the rules about stiff punishment were clear before Rose bet. these rules were put in place due to a World Series being fixed early in the 20th century. Rose knew the punishment ahead of time.
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On January 31 2017 00:39 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2017 00:33 Clazziquai10 wrote:On January 30 2017 22:05 Elentos wrote:On January 30 2017 21:52 evolsiefil wrote:
i find it weird how so many in this thread are thinking in black and white only. there is those who are like whatever he just cheated in a videogame let him play again and those who are like lol what he did was so severe he shouldve gotten 50 years of hard labor.
the reality however is this. it was his first offense for all we know and the kid paid for it. he spend 2 month in jail, has a few additonal years on probation, had to pay a signifacant amount of money AND was banned from competitive play for over a year now. with all due respect to those who believe otherwise, i strongly believe he should be allowed to redeem himself. publicly apologize and be allowed to compete again on probation.
everyone deserves a second chance, especially after they took their punishment like a man.
and just for the record, if he wanted to, i think he could. kespa is gone from sc2, and i highly doubt blizzard would insist on a perma ban like kespa did. if he formally apologized and asked for a second chance, im 100% positive they would allow it. I'm sure Blizzard removed Life's name from the Blizzcon trophy and GSL removed him from their wall of champions to signify that they'd be willing to give him a second chance. The reality is this - as much as some people might want him to return, you have to realize, even if he were allowed to, it wouldn't be a good idea for him to actually do it. Return to the stage of the greatest failure in his life? Constantly confronted with the venom of the Korean fans who will never forgive him for the damage he did to their scene? Maybe run into match-fixers once more and run into the same trouble all over again? Why would he want any of this? He might become the ultimate supervillian of SC2 if he returns. Innovation vs Life in 2017 could become the SC2 equivalent of Usain Bolt vs Justin Gatlin, and it might just be epic... just sayin' Except pretty much everyone knew that Bolt would beat Gatlin. Hasn't Gatlin never beaten him? Whereas Inno vs Life has always been back and forth
Exactly. If the supervillian isn't be a mere walkover it would be so much more interesting to watch
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On January 31 2017 00:33 Clazziquai10 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2017 22:05 Elentos wrote:On January 30 2017 21:52 evolsiefil wrote:
i find it weird how so many in this thread are thinking in black and white only. there is those who are like whatever he just cheated in a videogame let him play again and those who are like lol what he did was so severe he shouldve gotten 50 years of hard labor.
the reality however is this. it was his first offense for all we know and the kid paid for it. he spend 2 month in jail, has a few additonal years on probation, had to pay a signifacant amount of money AND was banned from competitive play for over a year now. with all due respect to those who believe otherwise, i strongly believe he should be allowed to redeem himself. publicly apologize and be allowed to compete again on probation.
everyone deserves a second chance, especially after they took their punishment like a man.
and just for the record, if he wanted to, i think he could. kespa is gone from sc2, and i highly doubt blizzard would insist on a perma ban like kespa did. if he formally apologized and asked for a second chance, im 100% positive they would allow it. I'm sure Blizzard removed Life's name from the Blizzcon trophy and GSL removed him from their wall of champions to signify that they'd be willing to give him a second chance. The reality is this - as much as some people might want him to return, you have to realize, even if he were allowed to, it wouldn't be a good idea for him to actually do it. Return to the stage of the greatest failure in his life? Constantly confronted with the venom of the Korean fans who will never forgive him for the damage he did to their scene? Maybe run into match-fixers once more and run into the same trouble all over again? Why would he want any of this? He might become the ultimate supervillian of SC2 if he returns. Innovation vs Life in 2017 could become the SC2 equivalent of Usain Bolt vs Justin Gatlin, and it might just be epic... just sayin'
And yet... It wasnt epic to me. Knowing an exposed fraud would meet a proper athlete (yet) was not in the slighest bit appealing to me.
Cause you see the (yet) ? Thats what people like Life and Gatlin do. They instill doubt in my (and some others too) mind. But if he did that and didnt get caught ? What about others ?
And then you cant appreciate anything cause your wondering if it was "fair", if it was played by the rules.
Im not in the white side nor in the black one. Life does not deserve death or w/e, yet he did deserve the sanctions he got. Kespa banned him from their midst, and justice punished him. He has served his sentence, now he can carry on.
But he wont in sc2. He can mb carry on in another esport Game, even tho i highly doubt he will. Anyway, like former prisoners are discarded from society Just for being ex prisoners, i think his punishment plus the fact that this will follow him (at least in Korea) is vastly a good enough one.
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I really wish we could just let it go. Not like constantly tearing up old wounds will make Kespa suddenly change their decision.
He is gone for good, lets hope he has learned from his mistakes and finds his way in life.
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Life, Savior, Hwasin, all of them, are now non-marketable characters. I mean, I have no trouble with them playing again, like streamers, the way BW is now. But no team/clan/org would consider paying them to advertise the brand.
Imagine "Here's life, the cheating player that is also a degenerate gambler, playing for our brand. Now, go and buy shirts with our logo, he's such an amazing role model. He even apologized and said he'd never do it again.".
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EPT
