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Active: 2315 users

1 year since Life has been arrested

Forum Index > Closed
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1 2 3 4 5 22 23 24 Next All
seopthi
Profile Blog Joined December 2014
395 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-30 22:24:57
January 29 2017 21:32 GMT
#1
A year ago, Life has been arrested for match fixing. In his memory, let me add a comment in his defense.

Starcraft is such a hard game that more than other esports, many watch it rather than play. And for observer (e)sports like this, the most enjoyable part are seeing the most talented players. It is about seeing the genius of Michael Jordan, Magnus Carlsen, Tiger Woods, Phil Ivey, or in extreme AlphaGo. — and in my view, Life belonged among them.

However, my main argument is that Life should be allowed to come back, and it is not an utilitarian argument. As much as I would love to watch his games, that would be an invalid reason why. Ends do not justify the means.

My argument is that if done correctly, it would not be a wrong thing to do. Consider following points:

When the match fixing scandal happened, he was 19 and like most teenagers, he was probably stupid and unwise.
The circumstances are unknown, i.e it is possible that the betting ring is organized by some sort of mafia and that he might have been threatened if he did not comply.

Even if he has done it for the money, it is rumored that he had a gambling addiction; for which he probably should have gotten treatment (which is harder than to simply discredit him)

As far as I know, the games he intentionally lost did not change any outcome — meaning that for example he’d win bo3 2:1 instead of 2:0

Also, it is for example possible that he may be autistic and he might have not understood fully what has been happening. But generally, a teenager like this without school, with loads of money and spending, probably without much help (esp. KeSPA’s treatment) lacking this sort of moral compass is bound to happen.

Many sportsmen/players have been banned for much worse actions — doping, cheating, violence, etc. while then given second chance. For example David Millar or Dwain Chambers. In poker, people like Justin Bonomo or Sorel Mizzi won money from other people by cheating, which is probably even worse, and even they have redeemed themselves. In the Overwatch Winter Premier plays babybay, a pro from Ghost gaming who is a former cheater from Counter-Strike.

All these terrible things, like doping, cheating, or matchfixing, should be talked about, investigated, and properly known. It’s a right thing that someone like Lance Armstrong had the stage to explain what happened, apologized himself, and acted as an ambassador against it. And when he cheated, he was fully conscious of his actions while Life a teenager addicted to gambling.

However, compared to someone like Lance Armstrong, the details about Life’s scandal are completely unknown. Everyone acts like nothing has happened and he has never existed. I’m pretty sure that since the incident he has never been mentioned in GSL/SSL/ProLeague. I think that only once Rotterdam mentioned him last Blizzcon. Of course while watching ESPN or whatever sports broadcasts, there is no shame of discussing something like this.

Let me add my anecdotical experience, which may not necessarily reflect the whole picture properly, but still I think it’s worth mentioning. I am an international student in the US and have a Korean friend here. He used to play SC a lot until few years ago, and watches it only sporadically. Recently, I mentioned Life, and he did not know about the match-fixing scandal.
However, he brought up and talked in length, that the big problem that truly hurt the Korean scene, was the SBENU scandal. While perhaps for a lot of westerners (at least myself) it might have been downplayed.

My friend did not know of the match fixing scandal, likely because everyone acts like it has not happened. But I think that to prevent things like this, it should not be shoved under a rug, it should be talked about, investigated, and explained.

Life should have been given a stage to explain himself and apologize (if he wanted). Perhaps, if he has done gambling addiction treatment, if he has grown up a little bit and if he truly regrets what happened, he should be given a second chance.

It is easy to be judgmental and to have a strong negative stance to signal virtue to others - but it may not be the right thing to do.

Tl;dr: At least in Western culture, everyone should get a second chance. He did a wrong thing as a teenager under unknown circumstances and should be allowed to come out, explain what happened, apologize for it, and be an ambassador against shadiness that will still exist in any sport — as many players, previously banned for much worse things, have done in other sports.
[N3O]r3d33m3r
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany673 Posts
January 29 2017 21:43 GMT
#2
How about no ?
fluidrone
Profile Blog Joined January 2015
France1478 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-29 21:45:47
January 29 2017 21:44 GMT
#3
If i may say so, your post is missing its "goal".. maybe your goal is to get discussion / debate going about this eventuality.. but you should say so clearly, because otherwise your post will / might be "kicked" into the Blog section.

i agree with second chances provided to people who show investment / efforts to deserve those. If he was coerced or a scapegoat that would allow a space / platform for him to prove it for one thing...
Then again, simply returning to play in Kr with the same shady business available is not "making efforts" if you ask me
"not enough rights"
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
January 29 2017 21:47 GMT
#4
No forgiveness.
Chris_Havoc
Profile Joined August 2016
United States600 Posts
January 29 2017 21:48 GMT
#5
Life will never be allowed back. NEVER

Kespa is vindictive as hell when it comes to matchfixing and they have no qualms about destroying the lives & careers of any matchfixers, whether they are 19 or 90 it makes no difference to Kespa. Do it once and you are history.

The best thing for any Life fans to do is to just let it go.
Owner of the SC2 Esports Anthology channel on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SC2EsportsAnthology
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
January 29 2017 21:52 GMT
#6
at 19y o you know what you do.

He was good at this game, but 100% venal.

He deserves his ban.

The disband of kespas teams is partly due to him
TL+ Member
Ziggy
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
South Korea2106 Posts
January 29 2017 21:53 GMT
#7
I'd only be willing to revisit the subject in order to ridicule how lenient the sentence is, more time in prison would do him good.
WriterDefeating a sandwich only makes it tastier. @imjustziggy
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
January 29 2017 21:53 GMT
#8
You might forgive but the Korean sponsors and viewers may not. In a scene that is already teetering on the edge of survival, welcoming back a matchfixer could do more harm than good. The same applied to Savior, and Life should be no exception no matter how amazing he was at playing the game.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
InfCereal
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada1759 Posts
January 29 2017 21:55 GMT
#9
I'm with OP. I'm just here for sick games.
Cereal
JackONeill
Profile Joined September 2013
861 Posts
January 29 2017 21:56 GMT
#10
Not matter his age, this guy has been part of the bunch of [insert bill burr's favorite curse word] who made SC2's pro scene very unstable.

If you take money to drop games, even if you're 19yo, you can't make excuses for it. And since "everyone has a right to have a second chance" how about letting Manson out of prison? Everyone deserves a second chance right?
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
January 29 2017 21:57 GMT
#11
On January 30 2017 06:55 InfCereal wrote:
I'm with OP. I'm just here for sick games.



and with matchfixing scandal you havent got kr games, sc1 has fallen because of that, sc2 kr too
TL+ Member
Clonester
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany2808 Posts
January 29 2017 21:57 GMT
#12
He has all the second chances, just not in korean esport. There are plenty of other things he can start shining, his life (...) is not fucked over, his sentence was under probation, so he was only the 2 month of the prosecution in prison, he can go an redo his education, enlist into the army, furthermore strenghten his education and just have a good life.

But he has no place in esport.
Bomber, Attacker, DD, SOMEBODY, NiKo, Nex, Spidii
Justinian
Profile Joined August 2012
United Kingdom158 Posts
January 29 2017 21:58 GMT
#13
Personally, I agree. Tons of the Korean pros were at it anyway, it was just Life and Bbyong that got caught.

It will never happen though, and he might not want to come back anyway. He's a year into doing whatever else he wants to do with his life.
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-29 22:01:02
January 29 2017 21:58 GMT
#14
No forgiveness. Especially since he was good enough to be the GOAT. There are so many other players out there that will only ever dream of his success, who didn't matchfix (at least as far as we know..), who continue to grind it out and improve. Life was the best and he threw it all away.

Someone of his esteem throwing games does great damage to an already declining scene. If anything, I think the sentence should have been harsher.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
January 29 2017 21:58 GMT
#15
Look i think people in general are too harsh when it comes to the matchfixers tbh. Nobody ever tries to understand the situation these guys were in, there is only judgement based on own feelings for the game/scene/whatever it may be.
So i agree to that extent. At the same time he did something illegal, directly hurting the starcraft scene and yes i think being 19 years old is old enough to be responsible for what you do.
Do i absolutely "hate" Life? No, i think that's too close minded, lacking any empathy. But i think he deserves the ban, it is arguable if it should be forever or if he really should be also banned to stream, etc, but there needs to be something like that to scare potential other fixers.
I don't think there will be any reasonable discussion about this though, i once tried to argue a similar point in a savior topic and people only use their own feelings as argument tbh. No these guys aren't monsters who should be removed from history, i think that stance is absurd.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Solar424
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
United States4001 Posts
January 29 2017 21:59 GMT
#16
As much as I loved life, matchfixing should have a zero-tolerance policy. The damage he and the others did to the Korean scene is incalculable and they should be banned from anything related to eSports for life.
fishjie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1519 Posts
January 29 2017 22:01 GMT
#17
still dont see the big deal is, who cares if he match fixed? thats not a crime deserving of jail. its just a video game at the end of the day. so his life is ruined because he didnt win some games that he could have, and a bunch of self righteous people in korea think gambling is bad. its not.
CrayonSc2
Profile Joined August 2011
United States267 Posts
January 29 2017 22:21 GMT
#18
In pennsylvania you get a misdemeanor for possession of 1 gram of heroin. The kid played a video game.
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-29 22:24:26
January 29 2017 22:24 GMT
#19
I wonder how good Life would be now if he had not matchfixed. As good as Dark? Better?

Sadly, we will never know.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-29 22:26:59
January 29 2017 22:25 GMT
#20
On January 30 2017 07:21 CrayonSc2 wrote:
In pennsylvania you get a misdemeanor for possession of 1 gram of heroin. The kid played a video game.

Ok while overly harsh judgement mainly based on the own disappointment is bad, your "the kid played a video game" is just as absurd. No playing a videogame wasn't the problem and being 19 years old is hardly "being a kid". Unless you know of any psychological tests they did with him which prove that his mind indeed is on the lvl of a kid.
Why is it so hard to have reasonable discussions :/


On January 30 2017 07:24 pvsnp wrote:
I wonder how good Life would be now if he had not matchfixed. As good as Dark? Better?

Sadly, we will never know.


I mean he was a genius in his field, Flash lists him as one of the most gifted players ever iirc.
So assuming he would be motivated it seems likely that he would be a top contender for any tournament he enters. Because he proved he can deliver in any tournament format.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
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