EPTit's been a year, and you're invoking the cheap nostalgia card. brilliant.
1 year since Life has been arrested - Page 6
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necrosexy
451 Posts
it's been a year, and you're invoking the cheap nostalgia card. brilliant. | ||
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todespolka
221 Posts
On January 30 2017 06:56 JackONeill wrote: Not matter his age, this guy has been part of the bunch of [insert bill burr's favorite curse word] who made SC2's pro scene very unstable. If you take money to drop games, even if you're 19yo, you can't make excuses for it. And since "everyone has a right to have a second chance" how about letting Manson out of prison? Everyone deserves a second chance right? It is not the same. What you did and how old you were matters. If both were equal, every gambler, no matter how old he is, had to face 25 years in prison. You are not grown up with 19 years as a pro player, because you miss the real life experience. Also manson had probably many chances. | ||
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supernovamaniac
United States3047 Posts
What in the. SBENU scandal did kill off the team and did kill off the OGN's BW league due to SBENU sponsoring both. It may have hurt individual league's image due to them sponsoring, but it was brushed off. Proleague received no impact other than the team in need for new home. Meanwhile, matchfixing, both in BW and SC2, have killed off at least one league and multiple teams each time it happened. If SBENU scandal was really that huge in Korea (in terms of hurting eSports because they heavily reached out for eSports), why is LoL still going strong without any repercussions from the SBENU scandal? Back in 2013 while I was still working in the scene, my co-worker told me that if matchfixing were to happen again, Proleague was finished. Guess what happened in 2016. Yes, it wasn't the only contributing factor. But to brush it off as something that didn't have as much impact, then trying to bring someone back that helped destroy a scene. That's a no-no. EDIT: And to those who were saying he probably didn't know because he was young: Consider this. KeSPA had regular seminars and meetings to discuss how the players should behave as a progamer (i.e. things to do, things not to do, etc.), and matchfixing and its repercussions on the entire scene was one of the lectures (source: http://www.hankookilbo.com/v/7f55132ae44ba21448a1a87050ac8f55 ). To say that he was completely blind to the situation doesn't seem right here. EDIT 2: to my EDIT above, I need to double check if this person did attend the seminars or not; I forget when he became a member of KeSPA team. If someone could fact check this, I would be appreciated. | ||
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ilikeredheads
Canada1995 Posts
I'll use an example of competitive sports. Pete Rose is still banned from baseball and the baseball hall of fame despite admitting that he had gambled on the game. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
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seopthi
393 Posts
But to many others -- the point is I still do not understand, is that I watch many games and sports, and as mentioned, see players do much worse things, but being redeemed. What makes the difference? What allows cheaters (who actually won a games due to it) to come back in CS or Overwatch? Or how it is possible that Sorel Mizzi or Justin Bonomo (who won/stole money from others) can make a comeback, too? If it is that he was a prominent figure endangering the fragile scene, does it then mean that a B-tier player in a more robust scene is more allowed to cheat? Is this why the omnipresent cheating in OW on korean server is not a big deal? To me that sounds absurd, but if the consensus is that it is the case, I'd have to reconsider and this thread would be enlighting to me. | ||
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Dungeontay
126 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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ParkB0m
12 Posts
On January 30 2017 06:57 DieuCure wrote: and with matchfixing scandal you havent got kr games, sc1 has fallen because of that, sc2 kr too upwards of 300k watched the ASL semi-finals, jaedong vs flash. sc1 did NOT fall in korea because of match fixing, it fell because Blizzard pushed SC2 over SC:BW. On January 30 2017 07:24 pvsnp wrote: I wonder how good Life would be now if he had not matchfixed. As good as Dark? Better? Sadly, we will never know. He would thrive in the fast paced games of LOTV. That was his playstyle. I'd wager he'd be as good, if not better, than dark. On January 30 2017 08:18 xTJx wrote: Btw, matchfixing scandals happend in several popular games, including BW. Blaming Life for SC2's unpopularity is the cheapest excuse ever. Literally this. It's inane. On January 30 2017 08:21 Solar424 wrote: Yeah and after the BW matchfixing scandal one of the leagues stopped and a bunch of teams disbanded. Sound familiar? Yeah bro, not like SC2 dying contributed to that whatsoever. Teams are realizing LoL is where a TON of the money is, NOT SC2, so why bother supporting it? If you think Proleague and the majority of the teams disbanded based on match fixing, you're just plain ignorant. On January 30 2017 08:34 [Erasmus] wrote: And he got a suspended sentence, so literally pretty much a good behavior bond. This is the biggest point. He's LITERALLY, BY LAW, one strike away from a year and a half in prison. On January 30 2017 11:47 Bill Murray wrote: I got to "gambling addiction" and "treatment" and just stopped reading because even though there is evidence around the claim that Life had a gambling problem, who cares, right? fuck our players, get KESPA the ratings. On January 30 2017 15:09 PolarKnight wrote: He is still rumored to earn money through Overwatch auto-aim program sales. Source? On January 30 2017 16:40 ilikeredheads wrote: I disagree that Life should be allowed back. If he is allowed back, then what about people like Savior who matchfixed in BW? You are opening a can of worms. Savior played BW in China after his KeSPA ban. Not a relevant point you're trying to make. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
He should not be allowed back to play in competitive SC2 he is a cheat and did a lot of damage to the scene. He can get his 2nd chance or redemption from some other activity. | ||
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SkrollK
France580 Posts
On January 30 2017 08:53 xtorn wrote: You must be out of your fucking mind. Does your brain even compute the atrocity, primitiveness and narrow-mindedness of what you posted there? Put aside the html gavel and sit down. Christ. ---- Agree with op. I would be extremely happy to see Life give a public apology and resume his career. Despite all the hate, no one that talented should ever give the tiniest fuck about anyone who points fingers , and should just follow their dreams. If Life, the Champion, wants to play again he should do that if his heart tells him to - not because anyone else tells him to; he has nothing to prove. Life will always be in my heart as the best zerg in the world, consumed by a haunting mistake but with an undeniable talent that will live forever. We all make mistakes but the thought of huge talents such as Life stepping wrongly gives hypocrites tremendous ego boners. That is so incredibly stupid I am just speechless. Man, you like him, we got that. You like talented people, thats your right. But give them law leniency under the pretext they are talented ? How dumb is that ?! | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On January 30 2017 06:58 The_Red_Viper wrote: Look i think people in general are too harsh when it comes to the matchfixers tbh. Nobody ever tries to understand the situation these guys were in, there is only judgement based on own feelings for the game/scene/whatever it may be. So i agree to that extent. At the same time he did something illegal, directly hurting the starcraft scene and yes i think being 19 years old is old enough to be responsible for what you do. Do i absolutely "hate" Life? No, i think that's too close minded, lacking any empathy. But i think he deserves the ban, it is arguable if it should be forever or if he really should be also banned to stream, etc, but there needs to be something like that to scare potential other fixers. I don't think there will be any reasonable discussion about this though, i once tried to argue a similar point in a savior topic and people only use their own feelings as argument tbh. No these guys aren't monsters who should be removed from history, i think that stance is absurd. Thank you. The amount of people who go acting like they're pure people who never ever had the very thought of cheating while Life is an immoral monster who should be erased from history is mindblowingly sad. | ||
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phyren
United States1067 Posts
Banning a player is already a tricky thing, since different tournaments and leagues are not required to follow the same rules. In principle Kespa banning someone only bans them from Korean leagues and whichever leagues decide to show good faith towards Kespa. That's going to be most of them but not all. What about the opponents though? Do Kespa players then refuse to play against him thus forcing tournaments to choose which pool of players to go after? Banning as is rests on general agreement between tournament organizers. Temp banning has its own host of issues. What team is going to hire a player that cannot play in most leagues and just keep them on salary for year(s)? How motivated is a player going to be to continue practicing while banned, and how likely is it that they will return straight to the top of a continually evolving scene after years of absence? Maybe a guy like Life could have managed. Maybe he could have found sponsors despite his problems and made a comeback. If so, a temp ban would effectively be a perma ban for 99% of players while allowing the most popular leniency. | ||
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schaf
Germany1326 Posts
Would you give a diner a second chance after eating rotten meat? Would you go to the same pharmacist again that sold you sugar pills instead of painkillers? No. Because the next time you give them a chance, there is utter distrust. You cannot trust Life to ever seriously compete again, It's just that simple. So there is absolutely no reason to invite him to competitions. He can do showmatches, stream or prove his skill otherwise. Judicial systems usually are all about second chances (except for the death penalty and full life sentences) - he has his now. Just not in Starcraft. He closed that door himself | ||
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Kong95
17 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18129 Posts
On January 30 2017 19:38 Zaros wrote: There is more to life than SC2 :r He should not be allowed back to play in competitive SC2 he is a cheat and did a lot of damage to the scene. He can get his 2nd chance or redemption from some other activity. There is also more to SC2 than Life! Other than that silly wordplay, I have nothing to add. Life did real damage to the scene, and is probably partially to blame for the collapse of the KR SC2 scene. Letting him back into a pro team would harm the scene even further. Matchfixing is a very serious issue for SC2, and being banned from the game is not the end of Life's life. I loved him and his playstyle, but I lost every bit of respect I had for him when he was found to have matchfixed, and I never want to see him play again. | ||
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Ppjack
Belgium489 Posts
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JackONeill
861 Posts
And of course, in any western civilisation, the answer should be yes (should be in theory, isn't the case in reality). No one care that Life was gifted at the game. No one cares about the feelings you have about the guy. He committed a crime, he got punished, KESPA banned him, end of story. If you want to treat criminals differently because some amount of people like them, or that they are famous in some way, go in the street and protest for Bill Cosby to be released. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
His time in the public is over. He will try to stay out of the limelight for sure. | ||
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evolsiefil
143 Posts
the reality however is this. it was his first offense for all we know and the kid paid for it. he spend 2 month in jail, has a few additonal years on probation, had to pay a signifacant amount of money AND was banned from competitive play for over a year now. with all due respect to those who believe otherwise, i strongly believe he should be allowed to redeem himself. publicly apologize and be allowed to compete again on probation. everyone deserves a second chance, especially after they took their punishment like a man. and just for the record, if he wanted to, i think he could. kespa is gone from sc2, and i highly doubt blizzard would insist on a perma ban like kespa did. if he formally apologized and asked for a second chance, im 100% positive they would allow it. | ||
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quirinus
Croatia2489 Posts
Then they would have to let SaviOr and others off too. Don't get me wrong, SaviOr was my favorite player, and I'd love to watch him again, but the damage can't be undone. While I agree that maybe they shouldn't have banned them forever, banning pro-gamers for a few years is almost the same as that, so there's not much choice. He knew what he was getting into, SaviOr's matchfixed while Life was a kid, so Life knows what damage it can do, he's seen it. Yes, he's young and foolish, but doing it again after SaviOr is plain stupid. He should face worse consequences than SaviOr, and as far as I can tell, he is. He did it for the money, plain and simple, while disregarding everything else, intentionally. If a lawyer does something illegal, he can never be a lawyer again, and he'll be tried. Why should it be different for gamers? | ||
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