On January 23 2014 07:22 dfs wrote: I'm comparing it to common sense, the lack of which I noticed was the reason I replied. Besides, I can compare anything to anything, that's the freedom of speech you're fighting for.
To make anything from anything and make it huge - it's Kiseliov's job.
Would you please to explain here the commonness of what you're talking about?
On January 23 2014 07:22 dfs wrote: I'm comparing it to common sense, the lack of which I noticed was the reason I replied. Besides, I can compare anything to anything, that's the freedom of speech you're fighting for.
Would you please to explain here the commonness of what you're talking about?
Don't get shot if you can help it, don't provoke or attack people that can shoot you if you can help it.
On January 23 2014 04:18 SpikeStarcraft wrote: its simply amazing to me how you can watch a revolution on ustream nowadays. When i come home i tune in here and it gets worse every day. Now all the barricades are on fire.
Those 'the barricedes are on fire' were not Maidan's main barricades. Protesters now are firing tiers to make 'Fog of war' in order not to be shoot by 'police'. The paving setts has still being dismounted, since the ministery gave more power to the cutthroats that called the police and the people can щnly use what they find to protect their lives (not just health but lives).
I really didn't want to meddle into this discussion for obvious reasons, but I though that if you want to protect your health and lives you surrender or just leave instead of fighting back and have more chances to get shot, besides giving more excuse to use force. Normal people usualy don't go into harms way if they can help themselves.
If you didn't want so why you did? Surrender, leave... It's not Bolotna sqr, for a moment. Don't compare it to your experiense.
I'm comparing it to common sense, the lack of which I noticed was the reason I replied. Besides, I can compare anything to anything, that's the freedom of speech you're fighting for.
Common sense is much more than simple self-defense reactions. Every animal can run away at the sight of danger. What is the difference between the human and the animal in such a case is a good question.
On January 23 2014 04:18 SpikeStarcraft wrote: its simply amazing to me how you can watch a revolution on ustream nowadays. When i come home i tune in here and it gets worse every day. Now all the barricades are on fire.
Those 'the barricedes are on fire' were not Maidan's main barricades. Protesters now are firing tiers to make 'Fog of war' in order not to be shoot by 'police'. The paving setts has still being dismounted, since the ministery gave more power to the cutthroats that called the police and the people can щnly use what they find to protect their lives (not just health but lives).
I really didn't want to meddle into this discussion for obvious reasons, but I though that if you want to protect your health and lives you surrender or just leave instead of fighting back and have more chances to get shot, besides giving more excuse to use force. Normal people usualy don't go into harms way if they can help themselves.
A functioning democracy requires normal people to be able to violently protest. Some things are simply worth risking your life for. It's not nice and no one wants it to happen, yet it does, and it's ugly. History is full of examples. Magna Carta rebellion is probably the best.
The devil is in the details here. IF the democracy were functioning, there would hardly be a reason to protest - especially not in a violent fashion.
People are protesting because it's not working. And I hope that protesting violently is not the norm in a functioning democracy... rather a last resort.
All the best for the protestors, let's hope there won't be any more human casualties. Though that tank video is not very encouraging -_-
On January 23 2014 07:22 dfs wrote: I'm comparing it to common sense, the lack of which I noticed was the reason I replied. Besides, I can compare anything to anything, that's the freedom of speech you're fighting for.
Would you please to explain here the commonness of what you're talking about?
Don't get shot if you can help it, don't provoke or attack people that can shoot you if you can help it.
Yeah, we had that mentality here for 50 years so we dont make USSR soldiers shoot at us and now we are the poorest country in Europe. Unfortunately communist regimes go down only with blood and bullets.
I wonder how the government decide their decision making and actions, is it basically the president alone who orders the actions based on their own best interests?
On January 17 2014 04:52 Cheerio wrote: Ok, this is important. ... 2) ... Setting up a tent, carrying a mask or a hard hat at the wrong time and place is punishable by up to 15 days in prison. ...
No, it's punishable by up to 15 YEARS in prison.
Edit: These draconian laws are really what's set off the latest riots. The government has basically outlawed any form of dissent.
On January 23 2014 07:22 dfs wrote: I'm comparing it to common sense, the lack of which I noticed was the reason I replied. Besides, I can compare anything to anything, that's the freedom of speech you're fighting for.
Would you please to explain here the commonness of what you're talking about?
Don't get shot if you can help it, don't provoke or attack people that can shoot you if you can help it.
Yeah, we had that mentality here for 50 years so we dont make USSR soldiers shoot at us and now we are the poorest country in Europe. Unfortunately communist regimes go down only with blood and bullets.
In Poland there were no violent protests in 1989-91, however we had bullets and deaths in years before, so partially you are right. But ultimately what caused the People's Republic of Poland to collapse was its hopeless economical condition. (which is also the issue in Ukraine).
I have no idea what will be the outcome of current situation in Ukraine, but it already got bloody and if one side won't back down it will continue in its whole tragedy. However I would not compare it to protests in Soviet Bloc, where there was no mass media, everything was filtered out by government and protesters were denounced on TV as mentally ill people. Though current prime minister of Ukraine is trying to denounce the protesters as violent fascists and nazis, gay supporters and mentally ill, it will not be so easily swallowed as it was in years before. People nowadays have more sources of common knowledge and are able to separate wheat from chaff.
On January 23 2014 04:18 SpikeStarcraft wrote: its simply amazing to me how you can watch a revolution on ustream nowadays. When i come home i tune in here and it gets worse every day. Now all the barricades are on fire.
Those 'the barricedes are on fire' were not Maidan's main barricades. Protesters now are firing tiers to make 'Fog of war' in order not to be shoot by 'police'. The paving setts has still being dismounted, since the ministery gave more power to the cutthroats that called the police and the people can щnly use what they find to protect their lives (not just health but lives).
I really didn't want to meddle into this discussion for obvious reasons, but I though that if you want to protect your health and lives you surrender or just leave instead of fighting back and have more chances to get shot, besides giving more excuse to use force. Normal people usualy don't go into harms way if they can help themselves.
A functioning democracy requires normal people to be able to violently protest. Some things are simply worth risking your life for. It's not nice and no one wants it to happen, yet it does, and it's ugly. History is full of examples. Magna Carta rebellion is probably the best.
I don't think you have any clue what the Magna Carta is. The Magna Carta was the result of Richard the Lionheart being so shockingly incompetent that he forced the nobility to buy back their titles in order to pay for him to be ransomed, just one incident in a lifetime of fuckups. In the weakness after his death they collectively decided that the power of the king was to be great, but not limitless, because they wanted to have some insurance in case we ever had a king that utterly useless again. They didn't care about the common people, freedom, justice or anything else, they just didn't want to be extorted and threatened to ally with the King of France if he tried to.
On January 23 2014 04:18 SpikeStarcraft wrote: its simply amazing to me how you can watch a revolution on ustream nowadays. When i come home i tune in here and it gets worse every day. Now all the barricades are on fire.
Those 'the barricedes are on fire' were not Maidan's main barricades. Protesters now are firing tiers to make 'Fog of war' in order not to be shoot by 'police'. The paving setts has still being dismounted, since the ministery gave more power to the cutthroats that called the police and the people can щnly use what they find to protect their lives (not just health but lives).
I really didn't want to meddle into this discussion for obvious reasons, but I though that if you want to protect your health and lives you surrender or just leave instead of fighting back and have more chances to get shot, besides giving more excuse to use force. Normal people usualy don't go into harms way if they can help themselves.
A functioning democracy requires normal people to be able to violently protest. Some things are simply worth risking your life for. It's not nice and no one wants it to happen, yet it does, and it's ugly. History is full of examples. Magna Carta rebellion is probably the best.
I don't think you have any clue what the Magna Carta is. The Magna Carta was the result of Richard the Lionheart being so shockingly incompetent that he forced the nobility to buy back their titles in order to pay for him to be ransomed, just one incident in a lifetime of fuckups. In the weakness after his death they collectively decided that the power of the king was to be great, but not limitless, because they wanted to have some insurance in case we ever had a king that utterly useless again. They didn't care about the common people, freedom, justice or anything else, they just didn't want to be extorted and threatened to ally with the King of France if he tried to.
Sorry.
I'm glad you read the wiki page, Kwark. However, the Magna Carta was far more significant than your analysis makes it out to be. But thank you for reminding me in your typical passive aggressive way that broaching historical or political discussions in TL is asinine.
On January 23 2014 04:18 SpikeStarcraft wrote: its simply amazing to me how you can watch a revolution on ustream nowadays. When i come home i tune in here and it gets worse every day. Now all the barricades are on fire.
Those 'the barricedes are on fire' were not Maidan's main barricades. Protesters now are firing tiers to make 'Fog of war' in order not to be shoot by 'police'. The paving setts has still being dismounted, since the ministery gave more power to the cutthroats that called the police and the people can щnly use what they find to protect their lives (not just health but lives).
I really didn't want to meddle into this discussion for obvious reasons, but I though that if you want to protect your health and lives you surrender or just leave instead of fighting back and have more chances to get shot, besides giving more excuse to use force. Normal people usualy don't go into harms way if they can help themselves.
A functioning democracy requires normal people to be able to violently protest. Some things are simply worth risking your life for. It's not nice and no one wants it to happen, yet it does, and it's ugly. History is full of examples. Magna Carta rebellion is probably the best.
I don't think you have any clue what the Magna Carta is. The Magna Carta was the result of Richard the Lionheart being so shockingly incompetent that he forced the nobility to buy back their titles in order to pay for him to be ransomed, just one incident in a lifetime of fuckups. In the weakness after his death they collectively decided that the power of the king was to be great, but not limitless, because they wanted to have some insurance in case we ever had a king that utterly useless again. They didn't care about the common people, freedom, justice or anything else, they just didn't want to be extorted and threatened to ally with the King of France if he tried to.
Sorry.
I'm glad you read the wiki page, Kwark. However, the Magna Carta was far more significant than your shallow analysis makes it out to be. But thank you for reminding me in your typical passive aggressive way that broaching historical or political discussions in TL is asinine.
I didn't read the wiki page, I just know my English history. It was used retrospectively as an example of a social pact but it was never intended to have anything to do with the rights of the common man, democracy or anything of the sort and people who use it as such are guilty of reading history backwards. We have a democracy and we have rights of common men but that doesn't mean that it was inevitable and that everything that happened must be viewed through that filter, the Magna Carta was a response to a specific series of events.
Damn it's freezing out there: -15C, but "feels like" -21C. Ok, some news.
1) There is a temporary truce while negotiations are in progress. Negotiations will continue tomorrow.
2) Regional State Administrations controlled by pro-Presidential forces were assaulted in Ukraine today. 3 of them had been taken: in Lviv, Rivne, Ternopil'. The RSA in Cherkasy is being assaulted right now. Objects were being thrown out of the windows at the heads of protesting people. One of those, a flower pot, hit a protesting girl, 21, on the head. She was hospitalized. There are reports that police are firing in the air.
What is happening in Cherkasy is important because many people in Ukraine believe that only people from the Western Ukraine are protesting, while all others are being paid. Cherkasy is in the central part of Ukraine. And because it's my hometown. Go Cherkasy!
3) The tanks are yesterday's news. Since nothing came up today I expect they are not moving towards Kyiv right now.
4) An outrage was caused by the video of a naked man being ridiculed and videotaped by Berkut officers in freezing weather (-10 C at that time). In case you are wondering, no, he wasn't protesting naked, he was stripped naked by the police. Police has already apologized for the event and the man was set free but he received many injuries. You can find the video on youtube by tags naked man Berkut. As I said, in the video he is naked, like really naked.
5) No people died today, but one was shot in early hours.
6) A video of a brave Polish reporter had a highlight when he confronted Berkut with questions in the midst of the violent events: "What are you doing? You are Ukrainians. Do you want to hit people in the eyes?" The incident starts at the end of the video, at around 7:00.
As it was reported earlier, Berkut had been targeting protesting people in the head with rubber bullets (which is totally against internal regulations). As a result at least 3 people had one eye surgically removed. People with cameras had also been targeted, including journalists.
7) A leading Ukrainian TV channel 1+1 after it's news launched a video cut from the Braveheart Freedom speech
The cut was shorter and contained only the important parts. At the end it was revealed to be an ad for the movie since they would be broadcasting it in the future. But the motivational and inspirational effect of it was pretty huge given it's similarity with the current situation. Hell, I felt like crying. update: it's on youtube now + Show Spoiler +
About the negotiations. There are reports they have concluded but opposition has not gained much. They were promised that the issues of "draconic laws" and Prime Minister resignation would be discussed at the next session of the Parliament which would start next Tuesday. And that the prisoners after recent riots would be pardoned. The protesting people didn't accept those terms. They still remember previous negotiations when Yanukovich promised not use force and the next day police did exactly the contrary. It is likely that the riots would resume tomorrow.
EPT
