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On January 22 2014 23:01 Cheerio wrote:Two bodies near Kyiv were found with the signs of torture. On a related event Igor Lutsenko (Maidan activist and journalist) was found after he had been kidnapped one day ago from the hospital where he had brought an injured man from Hrushevskogo street. He claimed he had been kidnapped along with the man he had brought to the hospital by a group of around 10 men who were presumably from the Eastern Ukraine. They were using "mild" tortures against him, but the other man had less luck since he was actually from the Western Ukraine (he is still missing). The kidnappers wanted to find out who was financing the Maidan forces and what their plans had been. After they had failed to find the answers and had confirmed Igor Lutsenko's identity they let him go. He is still in the hospital. http://news.liga.net/news/politics/964659-za_kievom_nashli_dva_trupa_so_sledami_pytok_smi.htm
update: the missing person from the post above, Yuriy Verbytskyy, has been found dead. His tortured body was found in the woods of Boryspil' Region (near Kyiv). Yuriy Verbytskyy was a seismologist, Phd. He came to Kyiv from Lviv and was a EuroMaidan activist.
![[image loading]](http://news.liga.net/upload/resize_cache/iblock/350/380_230_2/350b972f2e05efbf013733121d8be2ed.jpg)
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According to 1+1 news, 5 people have been killed today in the clashes at Hrushevs'kogo Street, 4 had gunshots.
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its simply amazing to me how you can watch a revolution on ustream nowadays.
When i come home i tune in here and it gets worse every day. Now all the barricades are on fire.
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Yanukovich dreams of being the next Batko, but if he was something more than just a braindead hand puppet of Russia he would have called the elections -- and probably won too -- on the EU/Russia deal issue and have avoided this. But he still probably wants revenge for 05.
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Canada5565 Posts
things are aflame
are they trying to reach a certain building or public centre?
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On January 23 2014 04:18 SpikeStarcraft wrote:its simply amazing to me how you can watch a revolution on ustream nowadays. When i come home i tune in here and it gets worse every day. Now all the barricades are on fire.
Those 'the barricedes are on fire' were not Maidan's main barricades. Protesters now are firing tiers to make 'Fog of war' in order not to be shoot by 'police'. The paving setts has still being dismounted, since the ministery gave more power to the cutthroats that called the police and the people can щnly use what they find to protect their lives (not just health but lives).
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On January 23 2014 06:12 Xxio wrote:
things are aflame
are they trying to reach a certain building or public centre?
Yep, 'The police' tried to force back the protesters to The Maidan. Their main goal was to cut The Building of Labour Union off Maidan. Cuz a lot of Maidan organizations, such as kitchen, medical and much more services are placed there. But that building is 10 meters from Maidan.
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Russian Federation4050 Posts
On January 23 2014 06:18 Vo-one wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 04:18 SpikeStarcraft wrote:its simply amazing to me how you can watch a revolution on ustream nowadays. When i come home i tune in here and it gets worse every day. Now all the barricades are on fire. Those 'the barricedes are on fire' were not Maidan's main barricades. Protesters now are firing tiers to make 'Fog of war' in order not to be shoot by 'police'. The paving setts has still being dismounted, since the ministery gave more power to the cutthroats that called the police and the people can щnly use what they find to protect their lives (not just health but lives).
I really didn't want to meddle into this discussion for obvious reasons, but I though that if you want to protect your health and lives you surrender or just leave instead of fighting back and have more chances to get shot, besides giving more excuse to use force. Normal people usualy don't go into harms way if they can help themselves.
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If the guys your pissed off about enough too basically camp outside, in winter, are starting to fire at you chances are you get even more pissed....
+mob mentality.
+feeling to fight for the right cause.
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Well all you guys arguing that the EU hasn't been good for Eastern Europe I think you're going to get what you want, the EU is not going to touch the Ukraine with a ten-foot pole while Yanukovych is still in charge after the new laws he got passed and the violence yesterday and today. Unless he backs down very quickly which he can't do really...
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Russian Federation4050 Posts
On January 23 2014 06:43 Velr wrote:
If the guys your pissed off about enough too basically camp outside, in winter, are starting to fire at you chances are you get even more pissed....
+mob mentality.
+feeling to fight for the right cause.
Doesn't make it less stupid and counter-effective, in my opinion. But I see your point, mobs aren't exacly the most intellegent units by definition.
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Canada5565 Posts
On January 23 2014 06:36 dfs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 06:18 Vo-one wrote:On January 23 2014 04:18 SpikeStarcraft wrote:its simply amazing to me how you can watch a revolution on ustream nowadays. When i come home i tune in here and it gets worse every day. Now all the barricades are on fire. Those 'the barricedes are on fire' were not Maidan's main barricades. Protesters now are firing tiers to make 'Fog of war' in order not to be shoot by 'police'. The paving setts has still being dismounted, since the ministery gave more power to the cutthroats that called the police and the people can щnly use what they find to protect their lives (not just health but lives). I really didn't want to meddle into this discussion for obvious reasons, but I though that if you want to protect your health and lives you surrender or just leave instead of fighting back and have more chances to get shot, besides giving more excuse to use force. Normal people usualy don't go into harms way if they can help themselves.
A functioning democracy requires normal people to be able to violently protest. Some things are simply worth risking your life for. It's not nice and no one wants it to happen, yet it does, and it's ugly. History is full of examples. Magna Carta rebellion is probably the best.
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United States5162 Posts
I saw some pictures on Reddit of Orthodox Priests standing between police and protestors trying to keep the peace and they felt really powerful to me. Just wanted to share them here if anyone hadn't seen.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ad07AA6.jpg)
+ Show Spoiler +
Good luck to Ukrainians fighting to keep their civil liberties. Violence sucks, but is the only answer when protests and other civil liberties are revoked.
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Russian Federation4050 Posts
On January 23 2014 06:55 Xxio wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 06:36 dfs wrote:On January 23 2014 06:18 Vo-one wrote:On January 23 2014 04:18 SpikeStarcraft wrote:its simply amazing to me how you can watch a revolution on ustream nowadays. When i come home i tune in here and it gets worse every day. Now all the barricades are on fire. Those 'the barricedes are on fire' were not Maidan's main barricades. Protesters now are firing tiers to make 'Fog of war' in order not to be shoot by 'police'. The paving setts has still being dismounted, since the ministery gave more power to the cutthroats that called the police and the people can щnly use what they find to protect their lives (not just health but lives). I really didn't want to meddle into this discussion for obvious reasons, but I though that if you want to protect your health and lives you surrender or just leave instead of fighting back and have more chances to get shot, besides giving more excuse to use force. Normal people usualy don't go into harms way if they can help themselves. A functioning democracy requires normal people to be able to violently protest. Some things are simply worth risking your life for. It's not nice and no one wants it to happen, yet it does, and it's ugly. History is full of examples. Magna Carta rebellion is probably the best.
I'd argue that normal people are currently sitting at home and waiting for someone to win already. But I don't want to get into this discussion, that's just my opinion.
Anyway, I am sad about what is happening and I want this to end, for everybody's sake
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Canada5565 Posts
Good photos. Not sure how representative these few are but I hope they stand facing toward the men with guns and riot gear from time to time.
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On January 23 2014 06:36 dfs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 06:18 Vo-one wrote:On January 23 2014 04:18 SpikeStarcraft wrote:its simply amazing to me how you can watch a revolution on ustream nowadays. When i come home i tune in here and it gets worse every day. Now all the barricades are on fire. Those 'the barricedes are on fire' were not Maidan's main barricades. Protesters now are firing tiers to make 'Fog of war' in order not to be shoot by 'police'. The paving setts has still being dismounted, since the ministery gave more power to the cutthroats that called the police and the people can щnly use what they find to protect their lives (not just health but lives). I really didn't want to meddle into this discussion for obvious reasons, but I though that if you want to protect your health and lives you surrender or just leave instead of fighting back and have more chances to get shot, besides giving more excuse to use force. Normal people usualy don't go into harms way if they can help themselves.
If you didn't want so why you did? Surrender, leave... It's not Bolotna sqr, for a moment. Don't compare it to your experiense.
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On January 23 2014 07:12 Xxio wrote:
Good photos. Not sure how representative these few are but I hope they stand facing toward the men with guns and riot gear from time to time.
To be fair the riot police are often not the once who start the fights unless there ordered to clear the protests.
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United States5162 Posts
From December before the recent upturn in violence.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/O6I8dQ0.jpg)
But honestly, from clashes with police I've seen in the past, it's often the protestors who are lobbing things at them while the police just stand there. Not saying it's unjustified, just that deescalating the situation after it turns violent is usually harder for the protestors than the police.
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Canada5565 Posts
On January 23 2014 07:18 Myles wrote:From December before the recent upturn in violence. + Show Spoiler +But honestly, from clashes with police I've seen in the past, it's often the protestors who are lobbing things at them while the police just stand there. Not saying it's unjustified, just that deescalating the situation after it turns violent is usually harder for the protestors than the police.
Ah, good point.
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Russian Federation4050 Posts
On January 23 2014 07:15 Vo-one wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 06:36 dfs wrote:On January 23 2014 06:18 Vo-one wrote:On January 23 2014 04:18 SpikeStarcraft wrote:its simply amazing to me how you can watch a revolution on ustream nowadays. When i come home i tune in here and it gets worse every day. Now all the barricades are on fire. Those 'the barricedes are on fire' were not Maidan's main barricades. Protesters now are firing tiers to make 'Fog of war' in order not to be shoot by 'police'. The paving setts has still being dismounted, since the ministery gave more power to the cutthroats that called the police and the people can щnly use what they find to protect their lives (not just health but lives). I really didn't want to meddle into this discussion for obvious reasons, but I though that if you want to protect your health and lives you surrender or just leave instead of fighting back and have more chances to get shot, besides giving more excuse to use force. Normal people usualy don't go into harms way if they can help themselves. If you didn't want so why you did? Surrender, leave... It's not Bolotna sqr, for a moment. Don't compare it to your experiense.
I'm comparing it to common sense, the lack of which I noticed was the reason I replied. Besides, I can compare anything to anything, that's the freedom of speech you're fighting for.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fcIzXxQ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lucSxLx.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mtvwzKx.jpg)
