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On March 03 2014 08:23 xM(Z wrote:
Germany should've sided with Russia from the beginning and ditch France and the whole EU mess.
they would've had balls (borrowed, but still balls), energy assured and the ex-soviet states as market for its goods.
now they're just having bitchy hissy fits 'cause their allies/EU have no real balls.
historically/territorially, EU is so messed up that if a war were to begin, you'll have like 20 states claiming territories from other 30.
They can't. US is dominant in influence over Germany. They cannot do anything that will oppose the US. In addition, something as severe as siding with Russia would be political suicide for Germany.
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Well you're trying your best to lose that influence, so i would not speak on behalf of the future, even the near one.
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It's ridiculous to assume Germany should side with either of them. We're in a good position to mediate, that's something that this conflict desperately needs. I know it challenges the binary world view of some people,but sanctioning Russia right now is not going to help.
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Signs that Russia is considering a deescalation:
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On March 03 2014 08:25 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 08:23 xM(Z wrote:
Germany should've sided with Russia from the beginning and ditch France and the whole EU mess.
they would've had balls (borrowed, but still balls), energy assured and the ex-soviet states as market for its goods.
now they're just having bitchy hissy fits 'cause their allies/EU have no real balls.
historically/territorially, EU is so messed up that if a war were to begin, you'll have like 20 states claiming territories from other 30. They can't. US is dominant in influence over Germany. They cannot do anything that will oppose the US. In addition, something as severe as siding with Russia would be political suicide for Germany.
Naaahhhh. More treaties and contracts than sucking up to the US (though I admit that Merkel was always pretty good in doing that). Guess there were enough events in the ast 10 years were germany opposed the US. Despite it is beneficial for both countries to have a positive political relationship
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On March 03 2014 08:29 Nyxisto wrote:
It's ridiculous to assume Germany should side with either of them. We're in a good position to mediate, that's something that this conflict desperately needs. I know it challenges the binary world view of some people,but sanctioning Russia right now is not going to help.
i agree, and it's still the first country that actually did something, if i think correctly all other countries are just sitting around and threatening each other. not to speak of nato which will only speak anyway until the conflict is solved
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Just crush the russian military, it's easy with the combined NATO & EU forces
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On March 03 2014 08:24 Eisregen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 08:20 LaNague wrote:On March 03 2014 07:41 xDaunt wrote:
Nice job, Germany. Way to sanction bad behavior. we are like china, we dont care as long as we get the monies. Well, we do care, but we don't do anything else than talking, because u know 70 years ago we were bad bad boys and girls. Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 08:23 xM(Z wrote:
Germany should've sided with Russia from the beginning and ditch France and the whole EU mess.
they would've had balls (borrowed, but still balls), energy assured and the ex-soviet states as market for its goods.
now they're just having bitchy hissy fits 'cause their allies/EU have no real balls.
historically/territorially, EU is so messed up that if a war were to begin, you'll have like 20 states claiming territories from other 30. ex soviet states as a market? ah well...doubt that would be any good for us...
you expanded EU towards the east; that means you went for the ex-communist block.
at the moment, a lot of those states are your market. you just miss the balls
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Not in my book. A council of human rights in russia is like a drop of water in hell. It even says so in the article, sadly. (not literally, but you get the picture)
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On March 03 2014 08:32 m4ini wrote:Not in my book. A council of human rights in russia is like a drop of water in hell. It even says so in the article, sadly.
Kremlinology is a murky subject indeed, but I actually mostly meant the fact that this statement is allowed to be published. And so are the following from the same article:
"I am certain that nobody in Russia wants war," Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin said on a popular late-night talk show on state television. "We are against such terminology being used to discuss relations with Ukraine, which is close to us."
However, he repeated Putin's warning that Russia would protect its citizens and Russian-speakers in Ukraine.
Pro-Kremlin lawmaker Leonid Slutsky, also in televised comments, said he wanted to "explain to everyone ... that there will not be a war as such. ... We do not intend to fight against our brother nation Ukraine."
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On March 03 2014 08:35 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 08:32 m4ini wrote:Not in my book. A council of human rights in russia is like a drop of water in hell. It even says so in the article, sadly. Kremlinology is a murky subject indeed, but I actually mostly meant the fact that this statement is allowed to be published. And so are the following from the same article: Show nested quote +
"I am certain that nobody in Russia wants war," Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin said on a popular late-night talk show on state television. "We are against such terminology being used to discuss relations with Ukraine, which is close to us."
However, he repeated Putin's warning that Russia would protect its citizens and Russian-speakers in Ukraine.
Pro-Kremlin lawmaker Leonid Slutsky, also in televised comments, said he wanted to "explain to everyone ... that there will not be a war as such. ... We do not intend to fight against our brother nation Ukraine."
That is true, in that case you're right, mea culpa.
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On March 03 2014 08:32 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 08:24 Eisregen wrote:On March 03 2014 08:20 LaNague wrote:On March 03 2014 07:41 xDaunt wrote:
Nice job, Germany. Way to sanction bad behavior. we are like china, we dont care as long as we get the monies. Well, we do care, but we don't do anything else than talking, because u know 70 years ago we were bad bad boys and girls. On March 03 2014 08:23 xM(Z wrote:
Germany should've sided with Russia from the beginning and ditch France and the whole EU mess.
they would've had balls (borrowed, but still balls), energy assured and the ex-soviet states as market for its goods.
now they're just having bitchy hissy fits 'cause their allies/EU have no real balls.
historically/territorially, EU is so messed up that if a war were to begin, you'll have like 20 states claiming territories from other 30. ex soviet states as a market? ah well...doubt that would be any good for us... you expanded EU towards the east; that means you went for the ex-communist block. at the moment, a lot of those states are your market. you just miss the balls
You are missing the point. Poland, Russia, Chzech rep. are markets for german goods. Thats pretty much it. Slovakia may be there as well on a way lower rank as well etc. The german export is not that dependant on ex-sovjet states as you might want to believe, especially hitech products are NOT needed in many ex sovjet states yet.
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On March 03 2014 08:17 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 08:02 darkness wrote:On March 03 2014 08:00 m4ini wrote:On March 03 2014 07:58 Gorsameth wrote:On March 03 2014 07:57 darkness wrote:On March 03 2014 07:47 Nyxisto wrote:On March 03 2014 07:41 xDaunt wrote:
Nice job, Germany. Way to sanction bad behavior. I suggest you take off your Reagan fanshirt and be happy that some people on this planet actually try to talk before they further escalate the situation. If Germany has prevented further invasion and escalation, then I think they've done more job than Kerry/Obama who have appeared weak. If Russia isn't scared of USA, then USA needs to reconsider their image in my opinion. Ofc Russia isn't scared. The one threat that the US was using (cutting Russia out of the g8) just got bombed by Germany. They weren't giving a shit beforehand. And i'm pretty sure the US knew merkels stance long before we did, if they decide to go through with it, not her fault. She has a lot more at stake with russia than the US does. I guess Germany may wait until the Nabucco pipeline is ready (possibly in 2018) before they get a hit at Russia then. I don't know man. Russia isn't Saudi Arabia which has literally nothing else besides oil and hajis to Mecca to bank on. Russia is pretty advanced and diversified and a switch of economic priorities can be a lot more seamless than for other countries
Well, the situation isn't as bad as in Saudi Arabia, but it's not that good as you make it seem to be... besides oil Russia has pretty bad infrastrucure and industry, and low investments make it hard for those to get competitive. Last year 50$ billion worth of capital left Russia, and the political atmosphere isn't one where they would reverse the trend, public sector is rather inefficient, policies of central bank aren't supporting businesses etc. Russia has many structural issues that are pretty hard to fix.
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Readout of the President's Calls with Prime Minister Cameron, President Komorowski, and Chancellor Merkel President Obama spoke separately this afternoon with Prime Minister Cameron of the United Kingdom, President Komorowski of Poland, and Chancellor Merkel of Germany. The leaders expressed their grave concern over Russia’s clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity, which is a breach of international law and a threat to international peace and security. The leaders stressed that dialogue between Ukraine and Russia should start immediately, with international facilitation as appropriate. The leaders affirmed the importance of unity within the international community in support of international law and their support for the Government of Ukraine, including its territorial integrity and its efforts to move forward with elections in May so that the Ukrainian people can continue to determine their own future in this historic hour. The leaders also pledged to work together on a package of multilateral and bilateral financial assistance to help Ukraine as it pursues urgently needed reforms to stabilize its economy. The leaders agreed to continue to coordinate closely, including bilaterally, and through appropriate international organizations. The President reaffirmed the United States’ longstanding and continuing commitment to security and democracy in Eastern Europe. Source.
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On March 03 2014 08:37 Eisregen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 08:32 xM(Z wrote:On March 03 2014 08:24 Eisregen wrote:On March 03 2014 08:20 LaNague wrote:On March 03 2014 07:41 xDaunt wrote:
Nice job, Germany. Way to sanction bad behavior. we are like china, we dont care as long as we get the monies. Well, we do care, but we don't do anything else than talking, because u know 70 years ago we were bad bad boys and girls. On March 03 2014 08:23 xM(Z wrote:
Germany should've sided with Russia from the beginning and ditch France and the whole EU mess.
they would've had balls (borrowed, but still balls), energy assured and the ex-soviet states as market for its goods.
now they're just having bitchy hissy fits 'cause their allies/EU have no real balls.
historically/territorially, EU is so messed up that if a war were to begin, you'll have like 20 states claiming territories from other 30. ex soviet states as a market? ah well...doubt that would be any good for us... you expanded EU towards the east; that means you went for the ex-communist block. at the moment, a lot of those states are your market. you just miss the balls You are missing the point. Poland, Russia, Chzech rep. are markets for german goods. Thats pretty much it. Slovakia may be there as well on a way lower rank as well etc. The german export is not that dependant on ex-sovjet states as you might want to believe, especially hitech products are NOT needed in many ex sovjet states yet.
you can nitpick all you want.
subjective evidence: before (Romania) entering the EU, i was seeing around me, wherever i went, french, italian, czech, spanish, english language adds; adds advertising firms from those countries.
after that, >75% (made up percent but the base idea is = a lot of) of what i see around me, is made in germany. from second hand busses and trains we use for public transportation to pretty much every construction material there is; everything related to interior design, pharmaceuticals, cars and so on and so forth
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On March 03 2014 08:32 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 08:24 Eisregen wrote:On March 03 2014 08:20 LaNague wrote:On March 03 2014 07:41 xDaunt wrote:
Nice job, Germany. Way to sanction bad behavior. we are like china, we dont care as long as we get the monies. Well, we do care, but we don't do anything else than talking, because u know 70 years ago we were bad bad boys and girls. On March 03 2014 08:23 xM(Z wrote:
Germany should've sided with Russia from the beginning and ditch France and the whole EU mess.
they would've had balls (borrowed, but still balls), energy assured and the ex-soviet states as market for its goods.
now they're just having bitchy hissy fits 'cause their allies/EU have no real balls.
historically/territorially, EU is so messed up that if a war were to begin, you'll have like 20 states claiming territories from other 30. ex soviet states as a market? ah well...doubt that would be any good for us... you expanded EU towards the east; that means you went for the ex-communist block. at the moment, a lot of those states are your market. you just miss the balls
You forget that the vast majority of the ex-communist bloc are not aligned with Russia.
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I'm curious about a few things regarding the current situation. How is the current "government" in Kiev legitimate when it violently overthrew a democratically elected leadership? Doesn't this set up a bad precedent where the opposition party can just resort to riling up a mob whenever they lose an election?
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On March 03 2014 08:25 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 08:23 xM(Z wrote:
Germany should've sided with Russia from the beginning and ditch France and the whole EU mess.
they would've had balls (borrowed, but still balls), energy assured and the ex-soviet states as market for its goods.
now they're just having bitchy hissy fits 'cause their allies/EU have no real balls.
historically/territorially, EU is so messed up that if a war were to begin, you'll have like 20 states claiming territories from other 30. They can't. US is dominant in influence over Germany. They cannot do anything that will oppose the US. In addition, something as severe as siding with Russia would be political suicide for Germany.
Your view on the world seems a bit too simplistic here, according to it Schröder couldn't have declined bush's request to go to war for america, however, he did.
We have similar interests in a lot of things and the US isn't without power, but you're not that powerful, the fact that you can't even threaten Russia when they invade another country kinda proves that (yeah, you talked about excluding them from the g-8, but that would have only made Putin angry, he wouldn't have actually cared beyond the point where his ego reaches).
On March 03 2014 09:10 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 08:37 Eisregen wrote:On March 03 2014 08:32 xM(Z wrote:On March 03 2014 08:24 Eisregen wrote:On March 03 2014 08:20 LaNague wrote:On March 03 2014 07:41 xDaunt wrote:
Nice job, Germany. Way to sanction bad behavior. we are like china, we dont care as long as we get the monies. Well, we do care, but we don't do anything else than talking, because u know 70 years ago we were bad bad boys and girls. On March 03 2014 08:23 xM(Z wrote:
Germany should've sided with Russia from the beginning and ditch France and the whole EU mess.
they would've had balls (borrowed, but still balls), energy assured and the ex-soviet states as market for its goods.
now they're just having bitchy hissy fits 'cause their allies/EU have no real balls.
historically/territorially, EU is so messed up that if a war were to begin, you'll have like 20 states claiming territories from other 30. ex soviet states as a market? ah well...doubt that would be any good for us... you expanded EU towards the east; that means you went for the ex-communist block. at the moment, a lot of those states are your market. you just miss the balls You are missing the point. Poland, Russia, Chzech rep. are markets for german goods. Thats pretty much it. Slovakia may be there as well on a way lower rank as well etc. The german export is not that dependant on ex-sovjet states as you might want to believe, especially hitech products are NOT needed in many ex sovjet states yet. you can nitpick all you want. subjective evidence: before (Romania) entering the EU, i was seeing around me, wherever i went, french, italian, czech, spanish, english language adds; adds advertising firms from those countries. after that, >75% (made up percent but the base idea is = a lot of) of what i see around me, is made in germany. from second hand busses and trains we use for public transportation to pretty much every construction material there is; everything related to interior design, pharmaceuticals, cars and so on and so forth
It's nice that we make a profit there, but what he was actually saying (even though he was too nice to spell it out) was that the nations he didn't mention in his post are too poor and small to make a big difference.
We probably sell more stuff to Great Britain or France right now than we could sell to all of those countries combined, you also lack the industry to even use many of our products.
See the big picture here, not just your personal experiences with ads.
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On March 03 2014 09:14 caelym wrote:
I'm curious about a few things regarding the current situation. How is the current "government" in Kiev legitimate when it violently overthrew a democratically elected leadership? Doesn't this set up a bad precedent where the opposition party can just resort to riling up a mob whenever they lose an election?
As has been discussed in this thread a large number of times, that's not an accurate description of the events. There was no coup d'etat.
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On March 03 2014 09:10 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2014 08:37 Eisregen wrote:On March 03 2014 08:32 xM(Z wrote:On March 03 2014 08:24 Eisregen wrote:On March 03 2014 08:20 LaNague wrote:On March 03 2014 07:41 xDaunt wrote:
Nice job, Germany. Way to sanction bad behavior. we are like china, we dont care as long as we get the monies. Well, we do care, but we don't do anything else than talking, because u know 70 years ago we were bad bad boys and girls. On March 03 2014 08:23 xM(Z wrote:
Germany should've sided with Russia from the beginning and ditch France and the whole EU mess.
they would've had balls (borrowed, but still balls), energy assured and the ex-soviet states as market for its goods.
now they're just having bitchy hissy fits 'cause their allies/EU have no real balls.
historically/territorially, EU is so messed up that if a war were to begin, you'll have like 20 states claiming territories from other 30. ex soviet states as a market? ah well...doubt that would be any good for us... you expanded EU towards the east; that means you went for the ex-communist block. at the moment, a lot of those states are your market. you just miss the balls You are missing the point. Poland, Russia, Chzech rep. are markets for german goods. Thats pretty much it. Slovakia may be there as well on a way lower rank as well etc. The german export is not that dependant on ex-sovjet states as you might want to believe, especially hitech products are NOT needed in many ex sovjet states yet. you can nitpick all you want. subjective evidence: before (Romania) entering the EU, i was seeing around me, wherever i went, french, italian, czech, spanish, english language adds; adds advertising firms from those countries. after that, >75% (made up percent but the base idea is = a lot of) of what i see around me, is made in germany. from second hand busses and trains we use for public transportation to pretty much every construction material there is; everything related to interior design, pharmaceuticals, cars and so on and so forth
And we've been in the EU since 2004 and there's very little German stuff being sold here, way more Swedish, Finnish, and Polish goods. Pharmaceuticals, yes, but that's just because Germany is the largest producer of pharmaceuticals in the EU.
It's natural that you're seeing more German goods considering the entire point of the EU is primarily trade. There are no tariffs on EU goods, so you're going to be importing EU goods.
As to your "German" cars, I'm relatively sure they're not actually produced in Germany.
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EPT
