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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
On March 03 2014 07:58 Gorsameth wrote: Ofc Russia isn't scared. The one threat that the US was using (cutting Russia out of the g8) just got bombed by Germany. G8 is just western circlejerk without Russia = has no value | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On March 03 2014 07:58 Gorsameth wrote: Ofc Russia isn't scared. The one threat that the US was using (cutting Russia out of the g8) just got bombed by Germany. They weren't giving a shit beforehand. And i'm pretty sure the US knew merkels stance long before we did, if they decide to go through with it, not her fault. She has a lot more at stake with russia than the US does. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On March 03 2014 07:59 Nyxisto wrote: Yes this gives Russia what it wants and that sucks. But at this point there's nothing the West can do about it. Or what are you proposing instead? We should better learn a lesson from it, get Russias neighbour states into the NATO and settle the borders so Russia doesn't get the opportunity to pull such a move next time. Like I said, I think Merkel is thinking the really long game. Putin 'wins' makes it hard for any pro-Russian politician in Kiev to block any kind of pro-EU reform now. Pro-EU reform shows that democracy can exist in a state Putin declares 'sister nation'. And if there ever is a period when oil prices drop below 50 dollars a barrel in the medium term the Russian State as its currently built -- on oil exports and corruption -- will be finished. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
Otherwise, Merkel seems to have kept to the general message saying that Putin has broken international law. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On March 03 2014 08:00 m4ini wrote: They weren't giving a shit beforehand. And i'm pretty sure the US knew merkels stance long before we did, if they decide to go through with it, not her fault. She has a lot more at stake with russia than the US does. I guess Germany may wait until the Nabucco pipeline is ready (possibly in 2018) before they get a hit at Russia then. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On March 03 2014 08:02 Ghanburighan wrote: Otherwise, Merkel seems to have kept to the general message saying that Putin has broken international law. But she didn't put on a cowboyhat, lost half the ability to speak her own language and shot furiously with two revolvers in the air shouting "yeehaw". Guess we're not that americanized yet. Good. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22676 Posts
On March 03 2014 07:59 Nyxisto wrote: Yes this gives Russia what it wants and that sucks. But at this point there's nothing the West can do about it. Or what are you proposing instead? We should better learn a lesson from it, get Russias neighbour states into the NATO and settle the borders so Russia doesn't get the opportunity to pull such a move next time. How can they do nothing about it? Ukraine asked the US/UK to uphold its sovereignty. You mobile and move in some troops with there support to "observe". They dont even need to leave military bases. You now show Russia you will uphold your promises and that they should back off. Let the Ukraine people decided how to handle Crimea. Russia took half a dozen small steps before they crossed the border to see how far they could push it. The west did not react at all. Ofc they just roll in at that point. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
You now show Russia you will uphold your promises and that they should back off. Now russia ships more stuff to the borders. What is our reaction? | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On March 03 2014 08:06 Gorsameth wrote: How can they do nothing about it? Ukraine asked the US/UK to uphold its sovereignty. You mobile and move in some troops with there support to "observe". They dont even need to leave military bases. You now show Russia you will uphold your promises and that they should back off. Let the Ukraine people decided how to handle Crimea. Russia took half a dozen small steps before they crossed the border to see how far they could push it. The west did not react at all. Ofc they just roll in at that point. And what if someone shoots? The NATO troops or whoever you want to sent in there shoot back? It sucks for the Ukraine that Russia gets away with taking control over Crimea, but no one wants to risk starting a WW III. Russia knows that. They'd just call every bluff. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On March 03 2014 08:10 Nyxisto wrote: And what if someone shoots? The NATO troops or whoever you want to sent in there shoot back? It sucks for the Ukraine that Russia gets away with taking control over Crimea, but no one wants to risk starting a WW III. Russia knows that. They'd just call every bluff. you dont have to start shooting, just do more target visa bans and asset seizures. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22676 Posts
On March 03 2014 08:10 Nyxisto wrote: And what if someone shoots? The NATO troops or whoever you want to sent in there shoot back? It sucks for the Ukraine that Russia gets away with taking control over Crimea, but no one wants to risk starting a WW III. So Russia gets to randomly invade any country it wants meanwhile? Putin is not stupid. He's anything but. He is going this far because no one is offering resistance. If Europe moved even a token force to the Ukraine in response to there request they wont invade as they have done now. I hate to draw the parallels but god this shouting of "we cant have a war. peace at any cost" reminds me of pre ww2. | ||
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Saryph
United States1955 Posts
On March 03 2014 08:10 Nyxisto wrote: And what if someone shoots? The NATO troops or whoever you want to sent in there shoot back? It sucks for the Ukraine that Russia gets away with taking control over Crimea, but no one wants to risk starting a WW III. Russia knows that. They'd just call every bluff. The part I made bold sounds awfully familiar. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
Российские военные, используя светошумовые гранаты, захватили почти все здания украинской воинской части 4515 в Бельбеке, рассказал "Украинской правде" солдат роты охраны части Роман Береговой. "Русские приехали сюда трое суток назад. Сначала они заняли дом, где зал обслуживания делегаций, куда прилетали там Янукович и другие. На следующий день заняли помещение, где наши самолеты стояли, потом окружили караул", - рассказал он. 21 минута назад | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On March 03 2014 08:13 Saryph wrote: The part I made bold sounds awfully familiar. Yes, it does. I'm aware Russia pulls that move every ten years. But that only happens because in the meantime everyone acts like nothing happened. After this situation is over just get Russia's neighbours into the NATO, buy them off if that's necessary. People have acted for 20 years as if the cold war was over, that's why Putin can do what he wants. The solution is not to escalate into a military disaster right now. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On March 03 2014 08:02 darkness wrote: I guess Germany may wait until the Nabucco pipeline is ready (possibly in 2018) before they get a hit at Russia then. I don't know man. Russia isn't Saudi Arabia which has literally nothing else besides oil and hajis to Mecca to bank on. Russia is pretty advanced and diversified and a switch of economic priorities can be a lot more seamless than for other countries. Yes the NG/oil and refined chemicals helped when Russia was recovering from what if I recall was the greatest economic collapse in modern history (which closely followed the Soviet collapse at that). But the thing is, more and more the gas is becoming something Russia can use to its advantage and to meet necessary demand elsewhere rather than the funny suggestions that Russia is 100% oil-producing, extremely underdeveloped state like Yemen. I don't know what role Nabucco will play, but I doubt it'll be serious in regards to Russia. If anything, all it will do is raise Mideastern influence in Europe LOL. Actually, it's hilarious to think that if Iraq hadn't been sent from good developing country to stone-age status over the past 20 years, Nabucco could make it a recognized player in European affairs haha. | ||
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snailz
Croatia900 Posts
On March 03 2014 07:57 Sub40APM wrote: Well you know how that works, its just like 'Republic of Krajina' have the crimean russians started to chop down trees to block the roads yet, or killed any of the ukranian police forces? (link) cause yeah, everything else is going basically the same route, and that would suck for people of Ukraine. i hope they find enough international support to avoid mentioned outcome... | ||
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
On March 03 2014 07:41 xDaunt wrote: Nice job, Germany. Way to sanction bad behavior. we are like china, we dont care as long as we get the monies. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
they would've had balls (borrowed, but still balls), energy assured and the ex-soviet states as market for its goods. now they're just having bitchy hissy fits 'cause their allies/EU have no real balls. historically/territorially, EU is so messed up that if a war were to begin, you'll have like 20 states claiming territories from other 30. | ||
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Eisregen
Germany967 Posts
On March 03 2014 08:20 LaNague wrote: we are like china, we dont care as long as we get the monies. Well, we do care, but we don't do anything else than talking, because u know 70 years ago we were bad bad boys and girls. On March 03 2014 08:23 xM(Z wrote: Germany should've sided with Russia from the beginning and ditch France and the whole EU mess. they would've had balls (borrowed, but still balls), energy assured and the ex-soviet states as market for its goods. now they're just having bitchy hissy fits 'cause their allies/EU have no real balls. historically/territorially, EU is so messed up that if a war were to begin, you'll have like 20 states claiming territories from other 30. ex soviet states as a market? ah well...doubt that would be any good for us... | ||
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Zandar
Netherlands1541 Posts
Everyone is interested in Ukraine at the moment. It's quite significant world news that deserves all the discussion it can get. But not everyone knows about Euromaidan, and many people not familiar with all the history and facts won't know this thread is about the Ukraine situation | ||
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