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On November 07 2013 06:48 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2013 06:46 Mothra wrote:On November 07 2013 06:41 ComaDose wrote:
"Wearing provocative clothing ... just as valid to label contributing causes of rape"
seeee there is rape culture everywhere you just need to know how to spot it. Are you going to share the reason it is not valid, or is your reason just rape culture full stop? If you can explain in plain English I'll be happy to listen. Because wearing provocative clothing is not at all a contributing factor to rape and to suggest so shifts the blame from the rapist to the victim. almost as obvious of a case i can think of. i.e. telling women they can't dress a certain way or they risk getting raped is not okay.
Wearing provocative clothing makes you look prettier. Looking prettier makes you more likely to get raped. Basic logic.
The point of contention isn't whether or not provocative clothing makes you more likely to be raped, that isn't even slightly contestable, the point of contention here is how much should we blame women for getting raped for doing things that increase their likelihood of getting raped and how much should we let that affect our sympathy for the victim.
Just to let my opinion be known on this one, I don't believe clothes choice should affect how we allocate blame. It doesn't make any particular sense to do that, it's mainly just vindictiveness, envy and this other emotion that is equally inane but I don't know the word for.
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On November 07 2013 08:23 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2013 06:48 ComaDose wrote:On November 07 2013 06:46 Mothra wrote:On November 07 2013 06:41 ComaDose wrote:
"Wearing provocative clothing ... just as valid to label contributing causes of rape"
seeee there is rape culture everywhere you just need to know how to spot it. Are you going to share the reason it is not valid, or is your reason just rape culture full stop? If you can explain in plain English I'll be happy to listen. Because wearing provocative clothing is not at all a contributing factor to rape and to suggest so shifts the blame from the rapist to the victim. almost as obvious of a case i can think of. i.e. telling women they can't dress a certain way or they risk getting raped is not okay. Wearing provocative clothing makes you look prettier. Looking prettier makes you more likely to get raped. Basic logic. The point of contention isn't whether or not provocative clothing makes you more likely to be raped, that isn't even slightly contestable, the point of contention here is whether or not one should blame women for getting raped for doing things that increase their likelihood of getting raped, which as a corollary effect makes people sympathize less with the woman who just got raped.
And people shouldn't blame women. But they do. hence, problem.
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On November 07 2013 08:28 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2013 08:23 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:On November 07 2013 06:48 ComaDose wrote:On November 07 2013 06:46 Mothra wrote:On November 07 2013 06:41 ComaDose wrote:
"Wearing provocative clothing ... just as valid to label contributing causes of rape"
seeee there is rape culture everywhere you just need to know how to spot it. Are you going to share the reason it is not valid, or is your reason just rape culture full stop? If you can explain in plain English I'll be happy to listen. Because wearing provocative clothing is not at all a contributing factor to rape and to suggest so shifts the blame from the rapist to the victim. almost as obvious of a case i can think of. i.e. telling women they can't dress a certain way or they risk getting raped is not okay. Wearing provocative clothing makes you look prettier. Looking prettier makes you more likely to get raped. Basic logic. The point of contention isn't whether or not provocative clothing makes you more likely to be raped, that isn't even slightly contestable, the point of contention here is whether or not one should blame women for getting raped for doing things that increase their likelihood of getting raped, which as a corollary effect makes people sympathize less with the woman who just got raped. And people shouldn't blame women. But they do. hence, problem.
You probably didn't read my post thoroughly. I absolutely despise the notion of blaming women for getting raped outside of particularly bizarre circumstances and I hate the notion of not sympathizing with the rape victim even more.
I was attacking a different point, the notion that provocative clothing is not at all a contributing factor to rape. It is a contributing factor, albeit pretty minor, but blaming women for getting raped because they were wearing a certain kind of clothing is inane in the extreme.
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On November 07 2013 08:34 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2013 08:28 Zealos wrote:On November 07 2013 08:23 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:On November 07 2013 06:48 ComaDose wrote:On November 07 2013 06:46 Mothra wrote:On November 07 2013 06:41 ComaDose wrote:
"Wearing provocative clothing ... just as valid to label contributing causes of rape"
seeee there is rape culture everywhere you just need to know how to spot it. Are you going to share the reason it is not valid, or is your reason just rape culture full stop? If you can explain in plain English I'll be happy to listen. Because wearing provocative clothing is not at all a contributing factor to rape and to suggest so shifts the blame from the rapist to the victim. almost as obvious of a case i can think of. i.e. telling women they can't dress a certain way or they risk getting raped is not okay. Wearing provocative clothing makes you look prettier. Looking prettier makes you more likely to get raped. Basic logic. The point of contention isn't whether or not provocative clothing makes you more likely to be raped, that isn't even slightly contestable, the point of contention here is whether or not one should blame women for getting raped for doing things that increase their likelihood of getting raped, which as a corollary effect makes people sympathize less with the woman who just got raped. And people shouldn't blame women. But they do. hence, problem. You probably didn't read my post thoroughly. I absolutely despise the notion of blaming women for getting raped outside of particularly bizarre circumstances and I hate the notion of not sympathizing with the rape victim even more. I was attacking a different point, the notion that provocative clothing is not at all a contributing factor to rape. It is a contributing factor, albeit pretty minor, but blaming women for getting raped because they were wearing a certain kind of clothing is inane in the extreme.
I guess I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you.
I would caution people that almost use that factor of clothing ect as an "excuse" of sorts. The problem is the people that rape, not the girls that go out in nice clothes.
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But most of rape cases happen in situations where you wouldn't prepare for it, e.g. in relationships
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it would turn it into a more violent assault.
Also they already sell anti-rape underwear. It's called chastity belts
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On November 07 2013 08:55 neptunusfisk wrote:
But most of rape cases happen in situations where you wouldn't prepare for it, e.g. in relationships
Didn't the World Health Organization figure out that its about 70%-80% a spouse or significant other that does the rape and not a stranger?
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On November 07 2013 09:04 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2013 08:55 neptunusfisk wrote:
But most of rape cases happen in situations where you wouldn't prepare for it, e.g. in relationships Didn't the World Health Organization figure out that its about 70%-80% a spouse or significant other that does the rape and not a stranger?
So? That can mean all sort of things...
Maybe women spend significantly more time with their spouse or significant other than with strangers.
Maybe women are more cautious around strangers and have gotten rather good at circumventing dangerous situations.
Maybe women are more likely to be raped when they let their guard down.
Maybe rapists are more eager to target victims they know.
Maybe rapists are more eager to target victims with whom they have an intimate relationship.
Maybe rapists are acting upon opportunities.
...
It's one thing to collect some numbers, but unless you control for a whole lot of different factors that might or might not play into this, I find it awfully hard to take anything away from this that could be considered even remotely insightful.
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man i watched that video.. and not to be weird or anything but i feel like any grown man could just pull those things down.. did you see how lightly she was tugging on them?
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On November 07 2013 09:12 Poffel wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2013 09:04 Thieving Magpie wrote:On November 07 2013 08:55 neptunusfisk wrote:
But most of rape cases happen in situations where you wouldn't prepare for it, e.g. in relationships Didn't the World Health Organization figure out that its about 70%-80% a spouse or significant other that does the rape and not a stranger? So? That can mean all sort of things... Maybe women spend significantly more time with their spouse or significant other than with strangers. Maybe women are more cautious around strangers and have gotten rather good at circumventing dangerous situations. Maybe women are more likely to be raped when they let their guard down. Maybe rapists are more eager to target victims they know. Maybe rapists are more eager to target victims with whom they have an intimate relationship. Maybe rapists are acting upon opportunities. ... It's one thing to collect some numbers, but unless you control for a whole lot of different factors that might or might not play into this, I find it awfully hard to take anything away from this that could be considered even remotely insightful.
I'm sure the World Health Organization are a bunch of lazy fucks who don't care about their findings.
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On November 07 2013 09:30 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2013 09:12 Poffel wrote:On November 07 2013 09:04 Thieving Magpie wrote:On November 07 2013 08:55 neptunusfisk wrote:
But most of rape cases happen in situations where you wouldn't prepare for it, e.g. in relationships Didn't the World Health Organization figure out that its about 70%-80% a spouse or significant other that does the rape and not a stranger? So? That can mean all sort of things... Maybe women spend significantly more time with their spouse or significant other than with strangers. Maybe women are more cautious around strangers and have gotten rather good at circumventing dangerous situations. Maybe women are more likely to be raped when they let their guard down. Maybe rapists are more eager to target victims they know. Maybe rapists are more eager to target victims with whom they have an intimate relationship. Maybe rapists are acting upon opportunities. ... It's one thing to collect some numbers, but unless you control for a whole lot of different factors that might or might not play into this, I find it awfully hard to take anything away from this that could be considered even remotely insightful. I'm sure the World Health Organization are a bunch of lazy fucks who don't care about their findings.
Glad we agree on that. 
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On November 07 2013 08:23 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2013 06:48 ComaDose wrote:On November 07 2013 06:46 Mothra wrote:On November 07 2013 06:41 ComaDose wrote:
"Wearing provocative clothing ... just as valid to label contributing causes of rape"
seeee there is rape culture everywhere you just need to know how to spot it. Are you going to share the reason it is not valid, or is your reason just rape culture full stop? If you can explain in plain English I'll be happy to listen. Because wearing provocative clothing is not at all a contributing factor to rape and to suggest so shifts the blame from the rapist to the victim. almost as obvious of a case i can think of. i.e. telling women they can't dress a certain way or they risk getting raped is not okay. Wearing provocative clothing makes you look prettier. Looking prettier makes you more likely to get raped. Basic logic. The point of contention isn't whether or not provocative clothing makes you more likely to be raped, that isn't even slightly contestable, the point of contention here is how much should we blame women for getting raped for doing things that increase their likelihood of getting raped and how much should we let that affect our sympathy for the victim. Just to let my opinion be known on this one, I don't believe clothes choice should affect how we allocate blame. It doesn't make any particular sense to do that, it's mainly just vindictiveness, envy and this other emotion that is equally inane but I don't know the word for.
What I had in mind was more that the prevalence of people objectifying themselves as sexual objects leads to increased animosity, frustration and lust, and decreased respect for others and self. Those lead to more rapes. Not so much that looking pretty on a particular night increases chances of being raped.
I think we have to all have to take responsibility for it as a society instead of just blaming either victim or rapist and then washing our hands of it. Rape culture is a vague and meaningless phrase to me, whereas the violence and hypersexualization of society I can understand and believe perpetuates rape. I do believe that dressing in a sexually provocative manner is a part of the problem, but it doesn't mean I blame people for being raped or feel anyone deserves to be.
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On November 07 2013 08:23 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2013 06:48 ComaDose wrote:On November 07 2013 06:46 Mothra wrote:On November 07 2013 06:41 ComaDose wrote:
"Wearing provocative clothing ... just as valid to label contributing causes of rape"
seeee there is rape culture everywhere you just need to know how to spot it. Are you going to share the reason it is not valid, or is your reason just rape culture full stop? If you can explain in plain English I'll be happy to listen. Because wearing provocative clothing is not at all a contributing factor to rape and to suggest so shifts the blame from the rapist to the victim. almost as obvious of a case i can think of. i.e. telling women they can't dress a certain way or they risk getting raped is not okay. Wearing provocative clothing makes you look prettier. Looking prettier makes you more likely to get raped. Basic logic. The point of contention isn't whether or not provocative clothing makes you more likely to be raped, that isn't even slightly contestable, the point of contention here is how much should we blame women for getting raped for doing things that increase their likelihood of getting raped and how much should we let that affect our sympathy for the victim. Just to let my opinion be known on this one, I don't believe clothes choice should affect how we allocate blame. It doesn't make any particular sense to do that, it's mainly just vindictiveness, envy and this other emotion that is equally inane but I don't know the word for.
Are there any stats anywhere that supports this notion of prettier looking girls being more likely to get raped?
If I had to make an hypothesis it would be that there is no correlation but I don't know.
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On November 07 2013 06:48 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2013 06:46 Mothra wrote:On November 07 2013 06:41 ComaDose wrote:
"Wearing provocative clothing ... just as valid to label contributing causes of rape"
seeee there is rape culture everywhere you just need to know how to spot it. Are you going to share the reason it is not valid, or is your reason just rape culture full stop? If you can explain in plain English I'll be happy to listen. Because wearing provocative clothing is not at all a contributing factor to rape and to suggest so shifts the blame from the rapist to the victim. almost as obvious of a case i can think of. i.e. telling women they can't dress a certain way or they risk getting raped is not okay.
You haven't said why you think wearing provocative clothing doesn't contribute to increased rape (on a society wide level). You just say that it is so and that it's not okay to question that. I'm not interested in blame, just causes. You can't prevent something without knowing its causes.
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This isn't going to stop a guy from fucking her between the thighs or just humping her butt even with those pants on.
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On November 07 2013 11:13 Xahhk wrote:
This isn't going to stop a guy from fucking her between the thighs or just humping her butt even with those pants on.
Need to make it abrasive so it hurts if the guy tries to do some between the thighs kinky shit.
Also, notice how all the models are hot? What about the less than flattering females? How will this underwear work for those who are quite flabby?
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On November 07 2013 10:55 Mothra wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2013 06:48 ComaDose wrote:On November 07 2013 06:46 Mothra wrote:On November 07 2013 06:41 ComaDose wrote:
"Wearing provocative clothing ... just as valid to label contributing causes of rape"
seeee there is rape culture everywhere you just need to know how to spot it. Are you going to share the reason it is not valid, or is your reason just rape culture full stop? If you can explain in plain English I'll be happy to listen. Because wearing provocative clothing is not at all a contributing factor to rape and to suggest so shifts the blame from the rapist to the victim. almost as obvious of a case i can think of. i.e. telling women they can't dress a certain way or they risk getting raped is not okay. You haven't said why you think wearing provocative clothing doesn't contribute to increased rape (on a society wide level). You just say that it is so and that it's not okay to question that. I'm not interested in blame, just causes. You can't prevent something without knowing its causes.
Because clothing can't make people do things... committing rape is an action taken by a person. There is no justifiable provocation for murder or rape among other things.
Some other key points would be that (on a society wide level) many countries where women are socially forced to completely cover themselves experience a lot of sex crime. mind you they still manage to blame it on them for showing off their ankles etc. that lying slut. Additionally the kind of rapist that rapes a stranger is not a significant percentage, and if that person is looking/hunting for some cue then someone better warn women not to smile at strangers.
I picked up the vibe your putting down of the guy who totally hates rape but isn't it possible we can blame the victim just a little? but I have to ask; why?? You say we can't just blame the victim or the rapist (lol like that was a hard choice) and wash our hands clean but I don't think we are washing our hands after we blame the rapist. we would just work harder to make less rapists in the future. Most men manage to control themselves all the time. Many men enjoy looking at sexily dressed sexy ladies. You ask for sources but you provide no evidence that scantily clad women contribute to an increase in rape. You are making the positive assertion. And you are mistaken.
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So this is a modern day chastity belt that can only be removed by the wearer?
Interesting concept lol.
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On November 07 2013 11:58 ComaDose wrote:
There is no justifiable provocation for murder or rape among other things.
sometimes killing a person is ethical.
although the circumstances are rare, the situations arise on occasion.
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On November 07 2013 12:34 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2013 11:58 ComaDose wrote:
There is no justifiable provocation for murder or rape among other things.
sometimes killing a person is ethical. although the circumstances are rare, the situations arise on occasion.
I said murder
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EPT
