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AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
On November 07 2013 06:01 xM(Z wrote: that was just an example of what happens in the animal world. you know, where alphas still exist... So that was sarcasm? If it was, I'm sorry. I've read too much depressing crap on the internet over the past few weeks. One man's joke seems to be another man's sincere (and sincerely stupid) belief. | ||
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
On November 07 2013 06:10 Zealos wrote: Lovely. It's ok, because it's what animals do. Mind boggling. Are you for real? Lol | ||
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Mothra
United States1448 Posts
This may sound backward to many, but I think the dissolution of the family and the loss of marriage as a means to unite families and raise children makes rape increase. People don't know what footing they stand on with each other, and sex is a commodity, so an unscrupulous person can look at someone they don't care about and think "why not take it by force?" It's ironic how tough we are on prostitution and yet make sex more of a commodity than it ever was. But it's hard to grasp such a global issue and pinpoint its causes and solutions. Anti-rape underwear seems to me like treatment of a symptom rather than the disease. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
seeee there is rape culture everywhere you just need to know how to spot it. | ||
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Mothra
United States1448 Posts
On November 07 2013 06:41 ComaDose wrote: "Wearing provocative clothing ... just as valid to label contributing causes of rape" seeee there is rape culture everywhere you just need to know how to spot it. Are you going to share the reason it is not valid, or is your reason just rape culture full stop? If you can explain in plain English I'll be happy to listen. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
On November 07 2013 06:46 Mothra wrote: Are you going to share the reason it is not valid, or is your reason just rape culture full stop? If you can explain in plain English I'll be happy to listen. Because wearing provocative clothing is not at all a contributing factor to rape and to suggest so shifts the blame from the rapist to the victim. almost as obvious of a case i can think of. i.e. telling women they can't dress a certain way or they risk getting raped is not okay. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On November 07 2013 06:41 ComaDose wrote: "Wearing provocative clothing ... just as valid to label contributing causes of rape" seeee there is rape culture everywhere you just need to know how to spot it. If I get drunk, walk home through a dark park and get mugged is it partially my fault that someone mugged me? Yes, because I was acting like a moron. That has nothing to do with justifying the deed of the person who mugged me. I could have done things differently to make it less likely to happen. Simply assuming that everyone should be able to walk through scary neighborhoods unharmed and, more importantly, that it's a completely reasonable thing to do is just plain naive. There is a major difference between "blaming a victim" and "expecting common sense from every potential victim". | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
On November 07 2013 06:50 r.Evo wrote: If I get drunk, walk home through a dark park and get mugged is it partially my fault that someone mugged me? Yes, because I was acting like a moron. That has nothing to do with justifying the deed of the person who mugged me. I could have done things differently to make it less likely to happen. Simply assuming that everyone should be able to walk through scary neighborhoods unharmed and, more importantly, that it's a completely reasonable thing to do is just plain naive. There is a major difference between "blaming a victim" and "expecting common sense from every potential victim". okay that's a very small percentage of rapes you're talking about tho. assuming your talking about walking through a dark dangerous area and not actually trying to justify telling women how to dress | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On November 07 2013 06:46 Mothra wrote: Are you going to share the reason it is not valid, or is your reason just rape culture full stop? If you can explain in plain English I'll be happy to listen. How is it valid? That's like saying if I wear a T-shirt with a knife on it, it's partially my fault if someone stabs me. Honestly, you can wear whatever the fuck you want without the fear of people violently forcing you to have sex, what kind of person seriously feel "Oh it's OK if I punch her and fuck her, she's wearing a short skirt". | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
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Dogfoodboy16
364 Posts
On November 07 2013 06:39 Mothra wrote: It frustrates me that putting any responsibility on women's behavior for the prevalence of rape is met with accusations of victim blaming. I think all that that does is create more victims. Wearing provocative clothing, treating men as objects, and using sex to manipulate are just as valid to label contributing causes of rape as the ideas that men don't know that rape is wrong or are inherently wired to rape if not taught otherwise. We don't live in bubbles; our actions affect others for good or ill. That applies to both sexes. This may sound backward to many, but I think the dissolution of the family and the loss of marriage as a means to unite families and raise children makes rape increase. People don't know what footing they stand on with each other, and sex is a commodity, so an unscrupulous person can look at someone they don't care about and think "why not take it by force?" It's ironic how tough we are on prostitution and yet make sex more of a commodity than it ever was. But it's hard to grasp such a global issue and pinpoint its causes and solutions. Anti-rape underwear seems to me like treatment of a symptom rather than the disease. So far I have hypothesized that broken families, lack of eduction, and emotional immaturity are the primary causes of date rape. I am currently researching how the vast increase in pornography has impacted the increase of date rape among younger people. I have yet to find a strong correlation although i do believe one may exist. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On November 07 2013 06:52 ComaDose wrote: okay that's a very small percentage of rapes your talking about tho. It's the same chain of thought. We can all agree that it shouldn't make it more likely to be assaulted in any shape or form but the closer your outfit gets to a certain extreme the more likely you are to provoke extreme reactions. If I wear a pink string, walk into a biker bar and get punched in the face because "LOL LOOK AT HIM LOL GTFO" then I was being a moron as well. That line is completely fluid however. There is a difference between wearing a short dress at a club and walking home half drunk at 4 am alone afterwards. If you're genuinely worried about your own safety you shouldn't compromise it that easily. PS: Can someone link me all these "rapes occur here and there in that situation in x percentage"-statistics everyone seems to take as given? :3 | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On November 07 2013 06:56 Tobberoth wrote: How is it valid? That's like saying if I wear a T-shirt with a knife on it, it's partially my fault if someone stabs me. Honestly, you can wear whatever the fuck you want without the fear of people violently forcing you to have sex, what kind of person seriously feel "Oh it's OK if I punch her and fuck her, she's wearing a short skirt". You're missing the point. If you have a knife in your pocket you are more likely to get stabbed during a bar fight. That's why it was "partially your fault". You made sure there is at least one knife around in the first place. Whether you wanted to protect yourself with that knife, stab someone or make sure you can slice your bread the next morning is completely irrelevant here. That has nothing to do with excusing whatever happens to you, it's about appealing to common sense. | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3575 Posts
On November 07 2013 06:50 r.Evo wrote: If I get drunk, walk home through a dark park and get mugged is it partially my fault that someone mugged me? Yes, because I was acting like a moron. That has nothing to do with justifying the deed of the person who mugged me. I could have done things differently to make it less likely to happen. Simply assuming that everyone should be able to walk through scary neighborhoods unharmed and, more importantly, that it's a completely reasonable thing to do is just plain naive. There is a major difference between "blaming a victim" and "expecting common sense from every potential victim". Does that mean that you're less likely to get a conviction though? When they come to court, will the jury rule less harshly because you were stupid to walk through the dark park? | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3575 Posts
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xM(Z
Romania5281 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On November 07 2013 07:22 Zealos wrote: Does that mean that you're less likely to get a conviction though? When they come to court, will the jury rule less harshly because you were stupid to walk through the dark park? I hope not. As someone who isn't a lawyer I would argue that there shouldn't be a difference between being mugged when sober in bright daylight or when being drunk in the middle of the night. I was still mugged after all. I'm genuinely not sure if and to what extent there are (court-) arguments for situations like this. At least I can't think of anything that makes sense. =P | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5281 Posts
On November 07 2013 06:27 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: So that was sarcasm? If it was, I'm sorry. I've read too much depressing crap on the internet over the past few weeks. One man's joke seems to be another man's sincere (and sincerely stupid) belief. it's just shitty when wannabe feminists misuse that word thinking that if they cut of the head/leader, the others will fall in line. curing rape by striking (at) alphas... it makes no sense. | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3575 Posts
On November 07 2013 07:31 r.Evo wrote: I hope not. As someone who isn't a lawyer I would argue that there shouldn't be a difference between being mugged when sober in bright daylight or when being drunk in the middle of the night. I was still mugged after all. I'm genuinely not sure if and to what extent there are (court-) arguments for situations like this. At least I can't think of anything that makes sense. =P Sadly, there is a blame game within society that spreads to the courts too. That is rape culture. (Sorry for the Mail) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-369262/Women-blame-raped.html On top of this (Watch the 2 men that come in): This too: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4453820.stm (Similar to the Mail article) Then there was this debarcle: http://gawker.com/5991003/cnn-reports-on-the-promising-future-of-the-steubenville-rapists-who-are-very-good-students Who cares about the women that were raped, the poor guys won't have a great future anymore!!! Blaming women for getting raped is rape culture. It happens a lot, and it's kinda hard to argue that it doesn't exist... | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3575 Posts
On November 07 2013 07:37 xM(Z wrote: it's just shitty when wannabe feminists misuse that word thinking that if they cut of the head/leader, the others will fall in line. curing rape by striking (at) alphas... it makes no sense. Yeah, urr, not really sure how you've got that strawman together. Good job, anyway, I'm glad you refuted that point. | ||
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