PPSL - A Second Look - Page 5

Targe

United Kingdom14103 Posts

April 15 2013 14:16 GMT

#81

On April 15 2013 23:10 Jehct wrote:
I'm not understanding the point of this post, how does letting fraud slide for two years make you a silent hero?

How does it make you a better person at all?

If the supposed hero 'Amanda' really did make off with a bunch of fan/organiser money then why the fuck didn't you do something to try and retrieve it while the event was still relevant?

And if this made you leave the scene, why are you returning with this info long after anything can be done about it? wtf? I mean, IPL doesn't even exist anymore as an organisation =/

Agreed, not sure why this has been brought up other than as a personal Crusade.

Plexa

Aotearoa39261 Posts

April 15 2013 14:21 GMT

#82

On April 15 2013 23:16 Targe wrote:

Show nested quote +

Agreed, not sure why this has been brought up other than as a personal Crusade.

The reason the information has come out so late is because only recently was Gus willing to discuss the incident/share the evidence (and the time it's taken for cheeky to sift through the information). As I said in my post, the real issue here is the fact that large sums of money were lost and while this is very late in coming out, it is better than this information is known than locked away.

SarBear

Australia5 Posts

April 15 2013 14:23 GMT

#83

On April 15 2013 23:16 Targe wrote:

Show nested quote +

Agreed, not sure why this has been brought up other than as a personal Crusade.

It's really sad that people seemly don't care. People are still being impacted by this 'situation' and Gus himself has had his name ruined by this. As stated by CheekyDuck, he still gets spit on when he enters a computer store. This may mean very little to you. However if it were me or someone I cared about, I'd want others to know. The truth always comes out.

aFganFlyTrap

Australia212 Posts

April 15 2013 14:23 GMT

#84

On April 15 2013 23:09 SarBear wrote:

Show nested quote +

Regardless of your personal vendettas against Cheekyduck, you don't need to believe her words. You can see for yourself the evidence that is provided for you.

I'm not sure what you think a vendetta is but cozzeE's interaction(one) can hardly be called a vendetta.

namste

Finland2292 Posts

April 15 2013 14:27 GMT

#85

On April 15 2013 23:21 Plexa wrote:

Show nested quote +

Shouldn't this issue and evidence be presented to the police then, if a fraud has occured it should be handled by the police.

FaZe

Canada472 Posts

April 15 2013 14:30 GMT

#86

On April 15 2013 23:23 SarBear wrote:

Show nested quote +

Unfortunately I don't think this is a case of cut and dry guilt / innocence. It's good to know that Amanda is going to get her name dragged through the mud a bit - but in the end everyone dropped the ball on a couple of issues that let things get to the place that they ultimately ended up.

ZenithM

France15952 Posts

April 15 2013 14:34 GMT

#87

Title is much clearer now at least.
I still don't care too much about dat drama, unfortunately :/

Ellihs

Australia3 Posts

April 15 2013 14:36 GMT

#88

On April 15 2013 23:23 SarBear wrote:

It's really sad that people seemly don't care. People are still being impacted by this 'situation' and Gus himself has had his name ruined by this. As stated by CheekyDuck, he still gets spit on when he enters a computer store. This may mean very little to you. However if it were me or someone I cared about, I'd want others to know. The truth always comes out.

As teamliquid guy said 2 minutes ago, this new evidence is bringing up details that question a couple new people, and if it is factual and fraud has been committed you should do something by the law about it

But this is in no way clearing Gus' name in anyway shape or form.. I highly doubt he get's physically spat on in a random computer store, I don't think people are willing to be arrested to demean some "starcraft 2 semi-known person"

So I think you still trying to play the violin card with Gus' name being tarnished and trying to say wrongfully, is stubborn and stupid. He manipulated, lied and withheld vital information necessary to throw such an event as the PPSL, still accountable for a lot of the "calculating evidence" brought up.

Plexa

Aotearoa39261 Posts

April 15 2013 14:37 GMT

#89

On April 15 2013 23:27 namste wrote:

Show nested quote +

Shouldn't this issue and evidence be presented to the police then, if a fraud has occured it should be handled by the police.

My only involvement in this has been to verify the legitimacy of the evidence presented here. I would hope that the evidence which pertains to the fraud is passed onto the police. With that said, after the massive community witch hunt do you not think that this is something which should also be brought to the community?

Zocat

Germany2229 Posts

April 15 2013 14:39 GMT

#90

On April 15 2013 22:28 -CheekyDuck- wrote:

Show nested quote +

try again, with a calculator.

You seem to have spent a lot of time on the issue. A lot of research, going through mails, invoices etc etc.
You are IN the material. Everyone reading your post isnt. Going through that and actually understanding random screenshots, out of order comments/mails etc would take everyone a great deal of time.
Time the large majority isnt willing to sacrifice.

Some questions:
+ Show Spoiler +

1.
"the original first down payment of 215 000php + 15 000php payments which were paid by Gus BEFORE the event."
Are you sure it's 215 + 15? Because that doesnt really makes sense.
Amanda talks about 215$ less (715k - 215k = 501k). The scan you showed shows the 15k. You didnt show a 200 or 215k scan.
So maybe it's 200 + 15 and you just made a mistake?
If not please explain.

2.
"Her invoice quotes from the start keep increasing"
I only checked the Tastosis part, so if the error is somewhere else please say where.
+ Show Spoiler +

Airfare: $ 539
Taxes: $ 189
IPP : $ 3
========
$ 731

It's identical to the picture:
[image loading]

Also the yellow numbers add up to the total of 715.
So what were her initial invoice quotes? And sources for those please.

If you refer to the PHP 657,603 vs 715k then keep in mind that cArn & Fruitdealer werent part of the initial calculation (also Sen was more expensive initially). I didnt calculate this any further so there might still be an error on her part here.

3.
"the total money she received that i know of was $17,539.83"
Source? Maybe I missed it.

4.
"The 42.85 is the exchange rate she quoted for the Philippine Peso to the US Dollar at that time (which is very low)"
"Even with her fraudulent exchange rate"
Looks decent or am I missing something? (2011-10-27 has 42.85 listed)

5.
"The full Korean fare was $450 but she quoted $731, Australian ticket $400 - $900 she quoted $ 1402 based on other peoples tickets purchased for this event that were reimbursed"
Cant find sources / proof for $450 & $400-900. Should add those unless I missed them as well

[]Phase[]

Belgium927 Posts

April 15 2013 14:41 GMT

#91

Too much information for mere common folk like me. Im gonna need someone to explain this in a bit more clear, shorter and non-biased way before I can make any judgement.

Actually, I should probably withhold any judgement. This shouldve probably been handled internally in the first place anyways.

Arkanthiel

Philippines100 Posts

April 15 2013 14:41 GMT

#92

On April 15 2013 23:37 Plexa wrote:

Show nested quote +

Oh don't worry about that. We know exactly where Gus is and where he works.

But right now we just want to focus on legitimizing esports here in the Philippines first. Steps were taken to ensure nothing like this would happen here in the Philippines ever again. Once is enough.

Superpower

Australia212 Posts

April 15 2013 14:43 GMT

#93

On April 15 2013 23:41 Arkanthiel wrote:

Show nested quote +

Are you guys ganna let Gus enter a pc cafe without him being spat on now?

Targe

United Kingdom14103 Posts

April 15 2013 14:44 GMT

#94

On April 15 2013 23:21 Plexa wrote:

Show nested quote +

Ah, ok I get it.

17Sphynx17

580 Posts

April 15 2013 14:44 GMT

#95

Well, disregarding facts of whether Gus should have flown and paid for accomodation of participants outside Manila, I think cheekyduck misunderstands a few things.

I think the 1k is in php, not usd. She was pertaining to local flights from Cebu to Manila and normally, they to charge on top of the flight payments. 1k php is not outside reasonable here in the Philippines. If you "book it yourself online" the service fee will drop to around 200 to 300php, if its with Cebu Pacific (that's for online), 500php via phone if I am not mistaken. This is approximate mind you. You can always check the breakdown of their ticket price before actually paying for it with the credit card.

Again, the additional payment for hotels, that's for incidentals right? Because I highly doubt anyone in their right mind would think he would need to have a guarantee deposit of 1000usd in a hotel in Manila even if he stayed long?

I also don't get what math she is pertaining to? Is it just the conversion rate of php to 1 usd? Would have been nice if she managed to see the "math" to create an excel spreadsheet and actually display a table in the spoiler for it to make sense.

I am not on the side of anyone, be it Gus or Amanda. But the jail time, we from the Phils already stated in the forums back then that there is no jail time in our country for loans. It would basically be a civil case, as it is a debt. It is not estafa/graft.

At any rate, I don't think there really is much in the sense of enlightening facts that have come up (yet) even with this post. I also think the stream cheating accusation is kind of a stretch. Why even put it? Dox didn't even mention it at any point, nor did anyone else part of the Australia qualifiers with whom that fact would matter most.

My two cents.

Arkanthiel

Philippines100 Posts

April 15 2013 14:45 GMT

#96

On April 15 2013 23:43 Superpower wrote:
Are you guys ganna let Gus enter a pc cafe without him being spat on now?

Well... since you guys asked so nicely....

+ Show Spoiler +

maybe

Plexa

Aotearoa39261 Posts

April 15 2013 14:48 GMT

#97

Actually I'm going to close this. People are raising valid concerns/criticisms of how the evidence is presented and how it supports the claims made. If -Cheekyduck- were around she could respond to those and hopefully clear up the OP. But as she hasn't replied for a while, is not online on TL and isn't replying to me elsewhere these criticisms won't be responded to for some time (Australia timezones ftw).

Cheeky please talk to me later.

Edit: Tentatively reopened.

avoiderdragon

Philippines14 Posts

April 15 2013 15:11 GMT

#98

Since this issue has been raised again for some reason, don't mind me while I leave here some of the stuff that I wasn't able to post a year and a half ago (because I was stupid).

Introduction

First of all, my name is Sonny Go and I was the content manager for Team AZK when the IPL 4 Pacific Qualifiers were being organized. I basically did most of the copywriting for the event, posting them on Team Liquid and SC2SEA, as well as Liquipedia. I was also updating the social media accounts and Liquipedia entry as the results came in. I also helped edit and rewrite the apology letter that was posted after the event.

The reason why I only released this now is simple -- I am an idiot. I was hurt by what happened during the aftermath and couldn't get myself to strike the iron while it was still hot. Perhaps the advantage to this though is that right now, the information I have may be assessed with clearer minds.

This post was not made to directly refute most of CheekyDuck's allegations, including those against Amanda. In fact, I don't know much about the financial stuff and had nothing to do with it. I'm just taking this opportunity to finally put out the screenshots that I had been sitting on for so long. After this has been posted, I've done my part.

Why Now?

As early as March 25 of this year, we heard a rumor about Gus wanting to start something again and had brought in those close to him during the whole PPSL thing (seems like they're good friends). I didn't think that the gossip was true, but I had prepared to compile this stuff since then. Lo and behold, something was posted, and I took the chance.

Derek "Dox" Reball, the organizer of the Australian qualifiers for the event and now the manager of Team Nv (Moonglade's team), recently posted a blog entry regarding his thoughts on people who like to jump the shark in eSports, and had mentioned about "a large number of ambitious eSports enthusiasts who popped up in 2011... decide they want to emulate the success of Evil Geniuses or Major League Gaming".

This must have triggered CheekyDuck to want to interview him live on Twitch to address his "lies". Seems that nothing really came out of it, so she started this thread. I got the link through Amanda, who doesn't want to say anything since she's still quite traumatized from what happened in 2011.

+ Show Spoiler +

My Conversation with Dox

For those who watched the CSN interview with Dox after PPSL, perhaps you remember the middle portion of that video wherein he apologized to someone working for Gus at that time who was "blunt and aggressive".

That guy was me, and that apology came after I posted screenshots of my Skype conversations with Dox in his blog entry about his dealings with the PPSL, where he also mentioned me as Gus' accomplice. I was just doing my job.

+ Show Spoiler +

But here's the kicker. At the same time when that conversation was taking place, I was talking to Gus in Google about the Liquipedia article for the event. I was trying to talk some sense into him on being diplomatic, while he was angry about some Aussie "stealing our thunder". In fact, this was the reason why I then contacted Dox through Skype.

+ Show Spoiler +

I was supposed to write about the event on Liquipedia, but someone else already did on Dox's behalf. Gus must have taken this as a slight and I had to talk some sense to him about it.

Lucky that I was able to take those screenshots while our Gmail accounts were still active, because they did get deleted days after the event.

+ Show Spoiler +

Dealing with an angry Gus in the early morning through chat about that Liquipedia entry was quite surreal. I understand why he'd be so angry, but that should never be a part of any business decision, no matter what.

During the Event

At the day of the event, Gus hit me up to talk about the players from Team Cube (from Cebu) who weren't attending due to not being able to book flights. Since it's already the day of the event, that wouldn't really be possible. When he gave up on the idea, he left me instructions then said that he was going back to his house because he was lacking sleep.

+ Show Spoiler +

Unfortunately, this ill-advised act of macromanaging meant that he was absent when the Internet connection we had on-site, courtesy of Globe Telecom, was not giving us the bandwidth we needed. This started a chain reaction that derailed the whole event.

When we were having the connection troubles, I was trying to reach Gus through my cellphone, but he wasn't answering. By around 2PM, he finally picked up and I told him about what's going on. It took some time before he got back, most likely because he lived in Paranaque, which is kind of far from the venue.

+ Show Spoiler +

Soon enough, the computers were crashing and unable to play StarCraft II. It turns out, from what I heard, that each computer had two sets of video drivers in them, both for Nvidia and ATi. Since we were using Nvidia cards, courtesy of sponsorship, we had to uninstall the other drivers. But when this was figured out, it was already quite late and a good number of the players were sent to an Internet cafe, which was also in Paranaque (maybe because Gus has connections there), to play out the rest of the matches. That's the only information I have regarding that.

Matchfixing Allegations

This is a special section since I have something to say about the whole matchfixing thing. The truth is that there was no matchfixing; it was actually my fault. This is how it happened.

On the second day of the event (November 8, 2011), I woke up at around 7AM and checked my Facebook for updates. I noticed that there was a bracket posted containing the names of the players who had qualified from group play. I immediately thought that they must have already drawn the names for it, so I thought that in order to save me some time, I'll just enter that in Liquipedia. Once I finished, I got prepared and left for the event.

When I arrived at the venue, Eins Rojas (one of the crewmembers) asked me about the bracket on Liquipedia I posted and urged me to delete them as soon as possible because it wasn't the real one at all. What I saw on Facebook must've been a sample.

The brackets were later drawn by a Korean, most likely one of the managers (maybe from StarTale, since it wasn't oGsTheWind). The AZK players being spread out in the brackets and the "original" having them against each other is merely a coincidence.

There was no matchfixing; it was just me being an overdiligent idiot.

When the Event Finished

After Tastosis left for the airport, MarineKing was awarded with the first place prize, and most of the live audience had left, we were called backstage to be informed by Gus that due to sponsors pulling out, we weren't going to be paid.

During the afterevent "party", I asked Gus about how much he was going to pay me. He told me that I was to be given PhP5,000 ($120) for my efforts, and I was actually fine with that since I'm just happy to be paid. In fact, I even told him that if he were to give me a Razer keyboard, I'd consider that as payment. I'm really easy to please.

Of course, I never got that at all once the financial fallout reared its ugly head. There was the whole Amanda and Clive situation with the threat of imprisonment, which was quite frightening. Amanda was and still is a quivering mess because of it and will never provide a rebuttal to CheekyDuck's allegations because she's just that traumatized.

This is not a call for sympathy; in fact, it just states that we're no real threat to them at this point. They want nothing to do about the whole thing, and I'm acting on my own volition.

Conclusion

I gain absolutely nothing from posting this at all (actually, it's a waste of my time). However, upon being given the opportunity to put up all of the stuff that has been sitting in my Dropbox account for over 17 months has been too good to pass up.

This attempt to salvage Gus' reputation is valiant, but quite misguided. He had his faults, and the sponsors and other crewmembers had theirs as well. The bottom line is that in terms of the event itself, we blew it.

The financial fallout though is out of the hands of the crewmembers since most of us never had anything to do with the money. I can't give any concrete judgement on that since I haven't been educated about the financial situation during that time.

Maybe the whole "silent hero" thing is built upon him having brought to us Filipino StarCraft enthusiasts a chance to meet some of our heroes in the flesh and watch them do what they do best. Alright then, I guess we can give props to him for that somehow.

But him being a hero? I don't think so. It would have been better if the IGN Pro League never had to go through that mishap at all, even if we never have had that experience if that was the case.

We could have been spared from all that drama. No one needed that at all.

My Thoughts on Gus

First of all, I had no personal loyalties to Gus. I got on the boat when I answered his call for a writer in the StarcraftPH Facebook group. I'm a freelance writer by trade, so I joined in for the experience and the potential pay. I had started playing StarCraft II on January 2011 and perhaps it was just me being in the right place at the right time.

I do have to say that Gus had a talent for getting people to join his cause. He did have some tricks in his sleeve to keep them hooked as well, like name-dropping and other persuasion tactics. Those tactics aren't necessarily bad per se, since they're employed in sales and marketing, and they did work for the purpose of getting the whole PPSL thing going back then.

However, what does stick in everyone's craw is how he managed the people under his wing and how he makes decisions based on emotional impulse. Perhaps he was getting overwhelmed by everything going on around him, but that's exactly what he wasn't supposed to do in that scenario in the first place. As far as allegations go, most of the ones involving Gus' hot head are pretty much true -- he does let his temper and stress get the best of him when it comes to important decisions.

As far as CheekyDuck's testimony of Gus having to sell his computer and scraping by to feed his family goes, we don't know anything about that, and we can't really be expected to believe it without any concrete evidence. That attempt to grab our sympathy, as well as calling Gus a "silent hero", makes me scratch my head. Anyone actually falling for this?

In the end, I harbor no lingering ill will towards Mr. Gus Ledesma. I wish him luck to his future endeavors. However, it must be said that when it comes to any eSports-related activities, no one should make it easy for him at all.

Gus, please just go do something else.

===

EDIT: Grammatical corrections.

ES_JohnClark

United States1121 Posts

April 15 2013 15:15 GMT

#99

why are people in this very community calling this information pointless? Just because some time has passed does not mean it's not important to expose the truth behind something as not to repeat the reactions from the community again.. as well as any of the issues that brought this snake alive in the first place.

pdd

Australia9933 Posts

April 15 2013 15:18 GMT

#100

Great, it's reopened, I can finally post the analysis I took about 1 hours to compile/write.

Can we talk about the numbers for a second? How much exactly is Cheekyduck suspecting that Amanda made? $5,847.90? Because from what I understand off Cheekyduck's evidence, the only amount I see as a major problem is the money lost due to IGN paying an extra $500 or so.

Difference in quotations between email Amanda sent and invoice she sent
If you do the math between the email Amanda sent (quoting PHP 657,603) and the Invoice (quoting PHP 715,878), you'll notice that the figure was increased because:
- two extra tickets were purchased from Korea (totalling an extra $62,647). Counting the number of people who flew in from Korea, the email only lists 16 while the invoice lists 18 people (the names of the people who flew changed a bit... ie Carn wasn't in the email, but was in the invoice, but he replaced someone else).
- she added PHP466 for Rachel's ticket, as the price quoted in the email was likely just an approximation
- Sen's ticket price actually dropped from PHP26,353 to 21,511.

Reconciling these: 657,603 + 62,647 + 466 - 26,353 + 21,511 = 715,874 (close enough to the price she quoted of 715,878).

So in that sense, she didn't change anything in terms of price between the email and invoice.

Claims that Amanda has been doubly paid in excess of US$5,000
I don't get this one either. So now we have PHP715,878, of which PHP215,000 has (even Amanda admits been paid by Gus). This makes for 500,878PHP, which is equivalent to $11,689.00, of which IGN paid her $12,172.27. Cheekyduck claims that Amanda was paid around $5367 on top of this, but it's shown that the $5367 rounds out to PHP230,000 (of which $215,000 was admittedly used for the plane tickets). Also, it's worth noting that the receipts posted don't even add up to PHP200,000.

This means that the only excess Amanda paid was the $500 that IGN paid and the PHP15,000 difference (230-215k) or around $350. So in all, I can only see $850 as the excess which is unaccounted for (if we forget about the exchange rate of 42.85 being "dodgy", which at the moment remains unclear and even then, it doesn't prove that Amanda intentionally cheated anyone). It's certainly a far cry from the $5.8k that Cheekyduck seems to be suggesting she cheated everyone out of. Also, to reiterate, the receipts do not prove that Gus paid PHP230,000. We know that Amanda received at least PHP215,000, based on her own admission, so the $350 USD here is still in contention.

Fudging of figures
Cheekyduck also claims that Amanda fudged numbers and constantly hounded her in the FB convo over the fact that 1644 x 42.85 =/= 70466 (it's actually 70445, which is 20 Pesos or $0.46 off). Well, 1, that was the only mathematical mistake in the invoice and 2, even if you multiplied it by 20-25 people, that would only be $10-11.50 of surplus.

Unless, Cheekyduck missed her major points, the mathematics in her evidences just don't substantiate her claims that Amanda was actively cheating and this has been blown way out of proportion.

Other matters
Frankly I don't understand why the Rossi streamcheating issue was brought up, or why Dox/YoonYJ were brought into this.

The issue of fraud as it pertains to finance lies in the people who handled the money. IGN, Gus and Amanda. Dox and YYJ should have been left out of it.

Ultimately, while this post helps put Gus in a better light, it makes very stark accusations which seem to be unfounded at the moment and should be edited out of the post. (or make it more clear where the unaccounted numbers come from)

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