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On April 16 2013 00:45 `dunedain wrote:
Wow, that post by SonnyGo aka AvoiderDragon brought back a lot of memories.
Lol at what a fucking douchebag Gus is...
BTW, he revoked everyone's TeamAZK email address (not just Sonny's), even the one linked to my KR region back then.
Yea, that's how much of a douche he is. As in literally changed passwords of all our email addresses, so we couldn't log back in.
I got over it after a while, but that's not to say I wasn't pissed the fuck off when I couldn't access my shit.
Remembering this, I now have no qualms about the fall out that befell him.
He was an asshole and probably still is one now.
The reason this information is available is because all the emails were frozen, people were leaking information to flame Gus on the internet. which was ruining the teams chances of recovering sponsorship money.
The damage was done and it was too late, amanda getting her funds early meant the team didn't get the 20K, amanda got the money.
I have talked with the other manager of PPSL, he thought Gus had the 20K and was shocked to find that only 7.5k was given, and most of that funding from IPL went to amanda.
I hope you take away that everyone but a few lost out from this situation.
your language is very... not nice.
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On April 16 2013 01:38 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 01:13 -CheekyDuck- wrote:
I can assure you that when i talk to Gus his time has always been limited, the little phone icon comes up when he fb. (meaning no computer)
I realize this is just a small, stickling point, but I think it speaks to the thread and evidence as a whole. How does this information lead to your conclusion? It seems like your threshhold for evidence is very low, and there's a lot of confirmation bias going on here.
well i never thought you would need to prove you sold your computer, but i guess i can chase that up.
in regards to Amanda
the Fare information was removed, i can upload the pdf (if you open the information in illustraor you get the text line dot)
and also if you compare it to fare information part is missing or just blank on some.
i think people are getting lazy and only adding the USD.
please add the PHP / 42.85 and you'll see the different numbers
and then remember amanda claimed she only received 200 000, or 215 000 but inface was given 230 000
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So many people stream-cheat these days lol,
but i for one can attest how easy it would be to get your twitch ID caught in another players stream.
I ladder all the time with people like Idra, or Catz, or any of the top players really on my 2nd monitor and every once and a while I unintentionally match them. From there I just pause the stream, I dont close it, and after the game I go back to watching it.
With that said, I'm glad to see some more information come to light on this issue and although Gus seems like a moron he doesn't deserve to be blindly hated by everyone.
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On April 16 2013 01:38 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 01:13 -CheekyDuck- wrote:
I can assure you that when i talk to Gus his time has always been limited, the little phone icon comes up when he fb. (meaning no computer)
I realize this is just a small, stickling point, but I think it speaks to the thread and evidence as a whole. How does this information lead to your conclusion? It seems like your threshhold for evidence is very low, and there's a lot of confirmation bias going on here.
My real question is what is the end goal of all of this? I don't think anyone is going to work with any of these people ever again, regardless of who did what. Is the goal here to prove someone not-guilty before the jury that is the internet?
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@ k204
Nice edit.
Next time you wanna accuse an entire community of something, please provide some proof. Also, Nobody is saying Cheeky doesnt have valid points/evidence. There is just a small group of people that disagrees with certain parts where she did not provide sufficient evidence.
PS:I find it ironic that certain individuals with 1-2 post and a recent join date would talk like they know alot abt the incident. Waiting for your specific and special moment to post?
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On April 16 2013 01:53 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 01:38 Jibba wrote:On April 16 2013 01:13 -CheekyDuck- wrote:
I can assure you that when i talk to Gus his time has always been limited, the little phone icon comes up when he fb. (meaning no computer)
I realize this is just a small, stickling point, but I think it speaks to the thread and evidence as a whole. How does this information lead to your conclusion? It seems like your threshhold for evidence is very low, and there's a lot of confirmation bias going on here. My real question is what is the end goal of all of this? I don't think anyone is going to work with any of these people ever again, regardless of who did what. Is the goal here to prove someone not-guilty before the jury that is the internet?
to write my wrong.
My gossip, i begged mOOnglaDe to join team AZK, and the information i provided was part of the YYJ post that caused IPL to pull sponsorship.
Not just to Gus, but to everyone effected, i am deeply sorry.
Even though i had good intentions and wanted to have a holiday with my friends, the result of my actions have caused people a lot of pain.
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On April 16 2013 02:06 Shortizz wrote:
@ k204
Nice edit.
Next time you wanna accuse an entire community of something, please provide some proof. Also, Nobody is saying Cheeky doesnt have valid points/evidence. There is just a small group of people that disagrees with certain parts where she did not provide sufficient evidence.
as not everything is posted, there is ... a shit load more correspondence. most of it needs to have 3rd party names removed.
but. i am off to bed, i am happy to submit more information or clarify any conclusion.
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wow, never expected this.
i can assume its a good thing ipl is being taken over by blizz now huh?
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cheeky, you might need more concrete evidence on the Rossi cheating thing. honestly, i sometimes watch streams during tournaments and when it's my turn to play i pause the stream. the name will still be there in the viewer list but the stream isn't on.
Also, from the things i can remember about gus. it was so long ago so i don't know if these are correct:
1. Initially not wanting to accept heLp from non-AZK people. 1-2 weeks before PPSL, there was another event held in Manila and it went off without a hitch. The same people offered help but they were refused. Eventually i think they were allowed to help but in a minor role? i don't remember too well.
2. Gus not wanting profiles of non-AZK people who helped out with the event put in the PPSL website. IIRC he raged when this was proposed.
3. Inviting Jabi and EnDerr to play a showmatch in an AZK tournament, but not allowing them to join said tournament.
4. I don't know if this was during tournament or just a showmatch but he'd PM his players telling him his opponent's moves, units, etc. (I'm pretty sure about this one because my friend used to be AZK and Gus PM'd him during said tourney / showmatch. although i think it was just a showmatch)
5. Leaving Clive to foot the remainder of the hotel bill was not cool. Threatening with a lawyer when approached was even worse.
6. Not sleeping 3 Days prior to the event, but posting pics of him drinking with Tastosis? mmm... you'd think he'd want to sleep when he could instead of spend the night partying.
7. HoNslaught. it was NEVER addressed. the players waited the whole day and nothing happened. poor guys.
There might be more, but i can't remember anymore. Anyway, my point is Gus probably really wanted the event to work. He probably isn't the scam artist we were initially lead to believe, but the guy is a douche. he mismanaged the whole thing and didn't man up to it.
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On April 16 2013 02:10 -CheekyDuck- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 02:06 Shortizz wrote:
@ k204
Nice edit.
Next time you wanna accuse an entire community of something, please provide some proof. Also, Nobody is saying Cheeky doesnt have valid points/evidence. There is just a small group of people that disagrees with certain parts where she did not provide sufficient evidence. as not everything is posted, there is ... a shit load more correspondence. most of it needs to have 3rd party names removed. but. i am off to bed, i am happy to submit more information or clarify any conclusion.
i think you mean confusion. and i wasn't around when all of this mess was going down, but you seem to provide a good argument and seem very logical.
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what about the fundings for all the players accommodation? i only see rachel's and gunrun's accommodation reciepts. those $$$ all been accounted for?
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On April 16 2013 01:50 TOdesKaMpF wrote:
I ladder all the time with people like Idra, or Catz, or any of the top players really on my 2nd monitor and every once and a while I unintentionally match them. From there I just pause the stream, I dont close it, and after the game I go back to watching it.
On April 16 2013 02:20 Pobbes wrote:
cheeky, you might need more concrete evidence on the Rossi cheating thing. honestly, i sometimes watch streams during tournaments and when it's my turn to play i pause the stream. the name will still be there in the viewer list but the stream isn't on.
You guys should really stop doing that to avoid any potential confusion in the future. Close the tab, bros. One case of star sense with your name in the stream list and you've got a full blown witchhunt on your hands.
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I find the most abhorrent part of this tirade is the unnecessary torching of Dox, Yoon and Rossi's repuations.
Dox has probably done more for the Aussie (SEA?) scene than anyone else, and to paint him as the villain is laughable. Your attempt to ambush him on stream failed, he wasn't lying about Gus trying to poach Glade, the contract was clearly not upheld (even if the money problems are more clearly explained now) and he had every reason to be suspicious of Gus' motives with the evidence the other members of team AZK have brought up with respect to his opinion of Dox. I bet he's glad you saved him the trouble of kicking you off the team by now.
Yoon should have got the spot, I don't understand at all why you would post those logs. What does a personal spat between the 2 of you have to do with this? All you've done here is prove your own character even more by betraying his confidence.
Rossi is a very well known name at least in the SEA community by now, please have some common decency and edit this out, it has nothing to do with the issue, but is quite indicative of your approach to the whole issue. As Jibba pointed out, you've repeatedly made giant kangaroo hops (I can make that joke cos I'm an aussie right?) from internet hearsay to bamboozling conclusions.
As far as Amanda goes, despite your hilarious Spanish-inquisition antics, she seems to have answered all your questions as fully as she could. Until we get a few independent people verifying the accounting details it's hard to point one way or the other, but after seeing the giant bubblegum ball the rest of your post is, I don't imagine it's going to amount to much unless your math ability is a lot stronger than your English.
It seems like this will swing on whether the numbers she quoted for hotels etc. were in usd or php, but if it adds up exactly using php, even if she did say usd somewhere at some point, I'm inclined to believe that could have just been a careless mistake, and the real amount was exactly what she got paid.
Tl;dr Cheeky writes this with the same aplomb that Gus planned the tournament. Everyone else seems sane, I'm siding with them.
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On April 16 2013 00:18 pdd wrote:
- two extra tickets were purchased from Korea (totalling an extra $62,647). Counting the number of people who flew in from Korea, the email only lists 16 while the invoice lists 18 people (the names of the people who flew changed a bit... ie Carn wasn't in the email, but was in the invoice, but he replaced someone else).
I wasn't a replacement I was the 2nd player to qualify for this event after Sen ... I think this may be due to the fact that my team purchased the tickets first and then got refunded by Gus (or something along those lines, it's been a while I don't remember exactly how we dealt with ticket, I just know my team and Gus had an agreement on this).
I just remember we weren't sure how to do this since I was going to PPSL right after ESWC, so we were thinking whether I come from Paris or stop by Korea before going, my name missing in the email is probably because it wasn't decided yet.
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On April 16 2013 02:35 tribulator wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 01:50 TOdesKaMpF wrote:
I ladder all the time with people like Idra, or Catz, or any of the top players really on my 2nd monitor and every once and a while I unintentionally match them. From there I just pause the stream, I dont close it, and after the game I go back to watching it.
Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 02:20 Pobbes wrote:
cheeky, you might need more concrete evidence on the Rossi cheating thing. honestly, i sometimes watch streams during tournaments and when it's my turn to play i pause the stream. the name will still be there in the viewer list but the stream isn't on.
You guys should really stop doing that to avoid any potential confusion in the future. Close the tab, bros. One case of star sense with your name in the stream list and you've got a full blown witchhunt on your hands.
Agreed. This is a terrible practice(pausing the stream, but still showing up in stream chat) for any potential player and should be avoided. I am always going lean toward caution and assume that anyone who does this was cheating, because the excuse of "I paused the stream" can't be confirmed in any way.
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So pretty much the only conclusion I was able to take from reading this thread is that when engaging in business deals to always do everything in public, only work with 100% legitimate and trustworthy people with experience, keep detailed invoices and statements of everything, and to be completely open with everyone at all times.
God, but this kind of thing makes me never want to work in E-Sports.
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On April 16 2013 02:53 sc2superfan101 wrote:
So pretty much the only conclusion I was able to take from reading this thread is that when engaging in business deals to always do everything in public, only work with 100% legitimate and trustworthy people with experience, keep detailed invoices and statements of everything, and to be completely open with everyone at all times.
God, but this kind of thing makes me never want to work in E-Sports.
This is pretty much a good practice for life. Though you don't need to everything in public and you only need to tell people as much as they is necessary for them to make an informed decision. But trust is a key part of all business, law or any other aspect of professional interaction. People like to think that rules/law keep everyone in line, but is mostly professionalism and trust that make the world go around. Laws/rule/contracts are only used when there is no other option and are often not worth the effort to enforce.
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On April 16 2013 00:57 FXOBoSs wrote:
A few things to take from this thread.
E-sports maturity is still at a very low level (you can package me into that figure if you like I don't mind). And fighting publicly is a very common thing re:dox and cheekyduck
The AU scene is one of the tightest knit communities out there. If you aren't in with them, you are nothing to them. So best to walk away if you aren't 'in'. (This is my advice to you Cheeky peeps... No point fighting).
Finally, its hard to digest the original post. Main reactions to it appear to be that of "we already pitch forked the guy so MEH". I don't want to bring race/country etc into a post but I am going to have to.
Doing business in any part of South east asia, someone is going to skim/overcharge/overbudget/pocket money. Its rampant, its common if the CEO isn't doing it, its his secretary, if it isn't the secretary its the cleaner if its not the cleaner its the taxi driver. Its how these parts of the world operate.. I am sure some people from SEA (non aus) can back me up on this.
What has happened sucks. Punishments whether necessary or not have been dealt out. Emotional stress has occured. Dragging this up with information, is for sure necessary in case something occurs in the future and is a lesson to learn about checking and double checking everything time and time again.
To put a halo on gus? Well, the event was pretty shitty so thats not justified at all. His job was to put on a great event as far as I understand, and although it was nice for the locals, the event by global standards sucked. He failed in his job.
Regardless, the way this information has been presented is difficult to digest. The main focus points could be seen as personal attacks which should be done in private and not in a post that is trying to highlight useful information.
Anyway, thats just how I see things.
ciao
Unfortunately that's how it works in a lot of places in the world. Now while I agree that Gus isn't entirely cleaned up by this, it's obvious he didn't deserve the treatment he got from the community. Neither did Amanda. Frankly it seems the esport community is way to easily manipulated in the name of ESPORT into charity AND pitchfork alike. Neither of which are good for the business.
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On April 16 2013 02:46 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 02:35 tribulator wrote:On April 16 2013 01:50 TOdesKaMpF wrote:
I ladder all the time with people like Idra, or Catz, or any of the top players really on my 2nd monitor and every once and a while I unintentionally match them. From there I just pause the stream, I dont close it, and after the game I go back to watching it.
On April 16 2013 02:20 Pobbes wrote:
cheeky, you might need more concrete evidence on the Rossi cheating thing. honestly, i sometimes watch streams during tournaments and when it's my turn to play i pause the stream. the name will still be there in the viewer list but the stream isn't on.
You guys should really stop doing that to avoid any potential confusion in the future. Close the tab, bros. One case of star sense with your name in the stream list and you've got a full blown witchhunt on your hands. Agreed. This is a terrible practice(pausing the stream, but still showing up in stream chat) for any potential player and should be avoided. I am always going lean toward caution and assume that anyone who does this was cheating, because the excuse of "I paused the stream" can't be confirmed in any way.
Well to assume that would be pretty-unfair. I mean obviously its an excuse, but there is no real way to prove legitimate stream cheating. If I really wanted to stream cheat its not that hard to sign out of my twitch account lol
Stream cheating on ladder seems to me at least a silly concept, why would I want to artificially beat someone when i'm trying to improve? In a tournament the stream will have a delay, and it wont matter at all so really stream cheating isn't a big issue I dont feel.
Granted I wouldn't want to be on a team where someone is openly doing it. (Rossi might of been like "lol this guys gay going to watch his stream" or something like that because other than self-admittance I don't think there is any way to prove it
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EPT
