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On April 17 2013 13:04 -CheekyDuck- wrote:
(stream cheating) because it is a major issue in the thread, I would like to clarify and confess that it was my fault that YYJ's ticket was not immediately issued with Rossi's. I informed Dox and Gus and blew the whistle that "stream cheating" occurred. It was based on information i received in confidence from YYJ. My intention was to force a justified rematch that would of benefited mOOnglaDe and my sister. (when i get home i will post the screen shot from skype with the time stamp)
You say you got the information about possible streamcheating from YYJ. And yet, in the skype log you posted, when you talk about it, he says he doesn't think it was stream cheating?
[10/29/2011 9:45:46 PM] the cheekyduck: look yoon, the thing is rossi was stream cheating
[10/29/2011 9:45:53 PM] Yojun Yoon: wtf
[10/29/2011 9:45:55 PM] the cheekyduck: so gus i already pissed
[10/29/2011 9:45:59 PM] Yojun Yoon: how do you know
[10/29/2011 9:46:01 PM] Yojun Yoon: wtf ?
[10/29/2011 9:46:09 PM] the cheekyduck: yeah i saw tarossi in my chat box
[10/29/2011 9:46:23 PM] Yojun Yoon: nono
[10/29/2011 9:46:27 PM] Yojun Yoon: dont think it was
Stream cheating is a serious accusation that can ruin a person's esports career. If this lame chatlog is the only kind of evidence you shouldn't have posted that part into a public forum (if it was just private speculation you should have edited and left it private) to begin with. If there are other logs with something more concrete you should have posted those first if you wanted to make a real accusation, but if this kind of hearsay is all there is, then making such accusations public in this thread is pretty bullshit.
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Australia398 Posts
On April 17 2013 14:45 UHF wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 14:42 -CheekyDuck- wrote:
so 30 days then? look the stream was pulled because of the sc2sea post. David thing admits that in email. doesn't have anything to do with internet issues. Could you please repost where David explicitly admits in an email that the stream was removed due to the post on sc2sea, as I can't seem to find it.
this was one of the last emails from David Ting. the email before he was wishing us luck Day2!
David doesn't answer calls or respond to the email about how day2 went better.
please.
as you can see it links the YYJ post. thats why the dox contract is so important.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zUY1glc.png)
its just not fair.
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On April 17 2013 14:53 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 13:04 -CheekyDuck- wrote:
(stream cheating) because it is a major issue in the thread, I would like to clarify and confess that it was my fault that YYJ's ticket was not immediately issued with Rossi's. I informed Dox and Gus and blew the whistle that "stream cheating" occurred. It was based on information i received in confidence from YYJ. My intention was to force a justified rematch that would of benefited mOOnglaDe and my sister. (when i get home i will post the screen shot from skype with the time stamp) You say you got the information about possible streamcheating from YYJ. And yet, in the skype log you posted, when you talk about it, he says he doesn't think it was stream cheating? [10/29/2011 9:45:46 PM] the cheekyduck: look yoon, the thing is rossi was stream cheating [10/29/2011 9:45:53 PM] Yojun Yoon: wtf [10/29/2011 9:45:55 PM] the cheekyduck: so gus i already pissed [10/29/2011 9:45:59 PM] Yojun Yoon: how do you know [10/29/2011 9:46:01 PM] Yojun Yoon: wtf ? [10/29/2011 9:46:09 PM] the cheekyduck: yeah i saw tarossi in my chat box [10/29/2011 9:46:23 PM] Yojun Yoon: nono [10/29/2011 9:46:27 PM] Yojun Yoon: dont think it was Stream cheating is a serious accusation that can ruin a person's esports career. If this lame chatlog is the only kind of evidence you shouldn't have posted that part into a public forum (if it was just private speculation you should have edited and left it private) to begin with. If there are other logs with something more concrete you should have posted those first if you wanted to make a real accusation, but if this kind of hearsay is all there is, then making such accusations public in this thread is pretty bullshit.
Doesn't TL typically have standards for this type of thing I've seen people get banned for stream cheating/hacking accusations with more evidence than this. The fact that this has stood for so long without it being edited out is worrying. How often do we see people start e-mailing sponsors based off knee jerk reactions to reading something like this.
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Australia398 Posts
On April 17 2013 14:53 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 13:04 -CheekyDuck- wrote:
(stream cheating) because it is a major issue in the thread, I would like to clarify and confess that it was my fault that YYJ's ticket was not immediately issued with Rossi's. I informed Dox and Gus and blew the whistle that "stream cheating" occurred. It was based on information i received in confidence from YYJ. My intention was to force a justified rematch that would of benefited mOOnglaDe and my sister. (when i get home i will post the screen shot from skype with the time stamp) You say you got the information about possible streamcheating from YYJ. And yet, in the skype log you posted, when you talk about it, he says he doesn't think it was stream cheating? [10/29/2011 9:45:46 PM] the cheekyduck: look yoon, the thing is rossi was stream cheating [10/29/2011 9:45:53 PM] Yojun Yoon: wtf [10/29/2011 9:45:55 PM] the cheekyduck: so gus i already pissed [10/29/2011 9:45:59 PM] Yojun Yoon: how do you know [10/29/2011 9:46:01 PM] Yojun Yoon: wtf ? [10/29/2011 9:46:09 PM] the cheekyduck: yeah i saw tarossi in my chat box [10/29/2011 9:46:23 PM] Yojun Yoon: nono [10/29/2011 9:46:27 PM] Yojun Yoon: dont think it was Stream cheating is a serious accusation that can ruin a person's esports career. If this lame chatlog is the only kind of evidence you shouldn't have posted that part into a public forum (if it was just private speculation you should have edited and left it private) to begin with. If there are other logs with something more concrete you should have posted those first if you wanted to make a real accusation, but if this kind of hearsay is all there is, then making such accusations public in this thread is pretty bullshit.
yes i was very suspitious, thais was before me and YYJ spoke in person.
YYJ is so keen to post parts of my chat logs, (dox blog) why doesn't he post the conversation he had with BEE on skype that black and white caused this!
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Australia398 Posts
On April 17 2013 15:02 HiTeK532 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 14:53 Fyrewolf wrote:On April 17 2013 13:04 -CheekyDuck- wrote:
(stream cheating) because it is a major issue in the thread, I would like to clarify and confess that it was my fault that YYJ's ticket was not immediately issued with Rossi's. I informed Dox and Gus and blew the whistle that "stream cheating" occurred. It was based on information i received in confidence from YYJ. My intention was to force a justified rematch that would of benefited mOOnglaDe and my sister. (when i get home i will post the screen shot from skype with the time stamp) You say you got the information about possible streamcheating from YYJ. And yet, in the skype log you posted, when you talk about it, he says he doesn't think it was stream cheating? [10/29/2011 9:45:46 PM] the cheekyduck: look yoon, the thing is rossi was stream cheating [10/29/2011 9:45:53 PM] Yojun Yoon: wtf [10/29/2011 9:45:55 PM] the cheekyduck: so gus i already pissed [10/29/2011 9:45:59 PM] Yojun Yoon: how do you know [10/29/2011 9:46:01 PM] Yojun Yoon: wtf ? [10/29/2011 9:46:09 PM] the cheekyduck: yeah i saw tarossi in my chat box [10/29/2011 9:46:23 PM] Yojun Yoon: nono [10/29/2011 9:46:27 PM] Yojun Yoon: dont think it was Stream cheating is a serious accusation that can ruin a person's esports career. If this lame chatlog is the only kind of evidence you shouldn't have posted that part into a public forum (if it was just private speculation you should have edited and left it private) to begin with. If there are other logs with something more concrete you should have posted those first if you wanted to make a real accusation, but if this kind of hearsay is all there is, then making such accusations public in this thread is pretty bullshit. Doesn't TL typically have standards for this type of thing I've seen people get banned for stream cheating/hacking accusations with more evidence than this. The fact that this has stood for so long without it being edited out is worrying. How often do we see people start e-mailing sponsors based off knee jerk reactions to reading something like this.
Why didn't YYJ get ticket? this is why! it doesn't matter if it was true or not, the fact is that rossi was in the stream chat, i thought he was cheating, i talked to yyj he said nono, its not him.
and then told me they had a cheating pack. put then he could of been making it up.
either way, i went to gus and tried to get a rematch.
YYJ's ticket was in dispute, he wrote a blog on sc2sea, IGN shut ppsl down, Amanda got sponsorship money and donations from the comunity.
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Taken from Dox's Blog, so that you guys can see his response to Cheekyduck.
Tuesday, 16 April 2013
How To Save A Life
Well. What a wild couple of days.
I have to say, I didn't see that coming. I didn't see anything coming.
When I decided to release a list of my expenditure last year, I thought it would help a few people. I wanted to introduce a speck of transparency to an otherwise murky industry. Somehow it found a way to backfire!
People have been nagging me for some sort of statement regarding this cluster of fucks, so I guess this is the best place to do it, considering this is where the attack began.
Here's a timeline of events, for clarity. I'm a big fan of clarity.
WARNING. None of this is new, interesting, or even remotely relevant to the scene. It's boring. It's pointless. I'm only writing it so I have a documented stance on all this before shit gets any further out of hand. The only part I care about is Rossi being accused of stream cheating. Accusations like that are taken & handled very seriously, and can have a significant impact on a players' career. If she doesn't remove the statement by the end of the week, I'm gonna be making a lot of noise about it. I'm worried she's already done enough damage to the poor guy.
- CheekyDuck posts a Tweet / Facebook update about my blog, claiming that "lies like this" were the reason she & LiviBee left Nv.
- I ask for clarification, but she says I have to appear on her stream if I want her to elaborate.
- I agree to appearing on her stream, because I just want it over and done with. Unfortunately she was busy all day, so we had to reschedule.
- I text CheekyDuck at 6:00AM saying, "I'll make myself available whenever you are free today!"
- She replies with "Late tonight if you want."
- I agree to make time for her later that night. I head out to spend one last day with my gf's parents, whilst Facebook becomes a cesspool.
+ Show Spoiler +
Her sister accuses me of avoiding phone calls & voice chats, yet no such attempts of communication were actually made. She could have phoned me, but chose to attack me in public. She then made it look like I was the one withholding.
+ Show Spoiler +
In my previous blog, I mentioned that she was out of contact for a while due to moving house. She somehow interpreted this as an attack, and responded by linking a personal blog about the passing of her mother.
+ Show Spoiler +
I sent her a text message, letting her know that I was just finishing up dinner with my girlfriends' parents in the city, and that I would be on my way home soon. She responds with:
"Look. You could be the mastermind behind this or you could be the guy that acted on information that was given to you at the time. I am happy to talk to you before the stream thing if you still want to do that. My questions are only to give closure as well (as) find intensions. I also promise it is to explore and not twist the truth."
+ Show Spoiler +
I finally get home and we commence the Skype call. I ask her what she wants. She asks me who took the following screenshot. It's from the IGNPL4_Pacific_Contract_Draft_C.docx I drafted before agreeing to commence work on the project.
+ Show Spoiler +
I told her that since it's been so long ago, I can't remember who took the screenshot. But just for the sake of getting to the point, I told her I took it. She pointed out that "Gus' signature isn't on the contract. It's Mariano's. Therefore the contract isn't valid, and Gus doesn't have to adhere to it." I quoted the correspondence between myself, Gus & Mariano, whereby Gus fully authorised Mariano to sign the contract.
She acknowledges that, but then decides to accuse me of "conveniently cropping" the screenshot to hide evidence. I ask her to elaborate, and she points out that the schedule for the Australian qualifiers didn't match up with the actual event. I look back at the event, and this is true. This is the schedule I included in the contract:
• Groups A & B: Tuesday, 4th October
• Groups A & B: Wednesday, 5th October
• Groups A & B: Thursday, 6th October
• Groups A & B: Friday, 7th October
• Double Elimination Bracket Day #1: Saturday, 8th October
• Double Elimination Bracket Day #2: Sunday, 9th October (corrected a typo here)
However after numerous Skype calls with Mariano, he and I agreed that it would be best if we delay the qualifiers until mOOnGLaDe had returned from Blizzcon, since he was arguably the best candidate to represent Australia at that point in time. By this point, we had already signed off on the contract, so no-one thought to go back and update it. No request was made by Mariano or anyone at AZK to update the contract. I mean, we had actual work to do. Lots of time and preparation went into the event. To this day, I'm adamant that the Australian qualifier was one of the coolest online events we've ever had. CheekyDuck made some awesome introduction videos for each of the players and they were a massive hit.
Anyway, back to the conversation. She claimed that since I didn't fulfill my end of the contract (adhering to the proposed schedule), that the entire contract was void, and Gus was no longer required to fly two Australian players to the finals. She was pressuring me to make an official statement that I was responsible for the passports of the players or something; I'm not quite sure. She was going on a massive rant for about 15 minutes about how Gus is struggling to make a living / can't provide for his family / had to sell his computer / gets spat on in public / etc, and it was all my fault. I asked her if she had interviewed any of the other relevant parties, and she said she'd spoken to TheGunRun, TorcH, Seltzer and numerous others, and that they had all admitted to making up lies because they were angry at the time. She told me it was my turn to admit to my lies, because apparently I had only said those things so that I could "get famous." I refused to do anything of the sort, and we moved on to her attacks against me.
She said she wasn't interested in talking about all of those things, all she cared about was Gus.
I asked he why Nv was "evil" and she claimed to have never said such a thing. I asked why she accused me of lying about flights & accommodation, even though I provided her with invoices. She said she had never accused me of lying in my blog, only about Gus. She said she had interviewed most of the SEA community and everyone agreed that I was always trying to take credit for other peoples' work. I asked her to provide examples, and she said that she spoke with Nick Vanzetti (ACL CEO) and that when he booked flights & accommodation for someone, I tried to cover it up and act like I paid for it. She was unable to provide evidence.
She then went on to mention that someone stream cheated in "Dox Cup PPSL." I asked her to clarify, because those are two separate events. She stuttered a bit, but basically all I managed to catch was "TargA... Rossi... YoonYJ" and stream cheating. I said that's the first I ever heard about it, and asked for more information. She wasn't able to provide anything.
There was about an hour of both of us yelling at oneanother. I expressed my frustration at her (and her sister) attacking me, my credibility, my girlfriend, and even my girlfriends' parents. I pointed out that she has caused significant damage to some friendships I valued highly.
We reached the point where no-one had anything left to say, and she asked me to go on stream and "admit to my lies." I told her I wasn't willing to admit to anything, except the fact that I did not complete the Australian Qualifiers within the proposed schedule. However, I was operating under the direction of Team AZK, so I'm not really sure how it's a problem. I explained that the contract was merely a formality to protect the players, because numerous people contacted me prior to the event, warning me that there was a high likelihood of players being screwed over.
She continued to pressure me into giving a statement right now, whilst I said I'd rather have some time to brush up on the event and go over all my correspondence. It's been over a year and a half since the event, and I've run over 25 events since then. My memory is pretty damn foggy. She refused to accept this though. She told me she had a 1 hour deadline, and she needed it now. I refused. I told her I'd be happy to proceed with the stream on Wednesday night as originally planned.
She ended the call, and within 30 minutes, the thread appeared on Team Liquid: Gus Ledesma, the Silent Hero of the PPSL.
So scrolling down to the "Truth in a nutshell" segment, she makes a few claims regarding myself and YoonYJ:
• Made false claims about players beings bribed
• Made misleading statements about the contract, who it was signed by, cropped information, expired contract.
• Missed the cut off date to send player information. 8th October passport from players didn’t arrive until the 2nd November.
• Postponed the tournament in breach of contract to delay so mOOnGLaDe could participate
• Dox was aware of stream cheating, but went ahead with the results. (This is the only information that is solely based on CD's verbal testimony and not a screenshot)
• Contacted IGN to “expose” PPSL
• Did interviews, wrote articles to vilify Gus Ledesma
So in response to all of the above points:
Gus Ledesma offered mOOnGLaDe a spot in the PPSL (Oct 30th, after failing to qualify) if he represented Team AZK for 3 months. This is fact. It came directly to me from mOOnGLaDe's phone. Unfortunately, I no longer have the text message. New phone. CheekyDuck admitted to me during our Skype conversation that she encouraged Andy to go ahead with it though. No false claims were made.
No misleading statements were made about the contract. Gus Ledesma authorised the signature of the contract. Yes the image was cropped, to include the relevant information. No-one from AZK ever said anything about the contract expiring. This is the first time anyone has suggested such a thing. I did not adhere to the draft schedule outlined in the contract, as advised by Team AZK.
Passport stuff. This was none of my responsibility, but during our conversation CheekyDuck tried to suggest that this was "another area where I failed to hold up my end of the contract."
Yes the tournament was postponed so that mOOnGLaDe could participate. One could argue it was a breach of contract, but I was just acting under the decision of Team AZK.
I knew nothing about stream cheating, and did no such thing. This is 100% fabrication. Rossi is one of the most active & successful LAN participants in Australia. I even told CheekyDuck on Skype that I knew nothing about any stream cheating. She chose to ignore that statement entirely.
Pretty sure the whole PPSL drama advertised itself. She's adamant that I sent a copy of the "invalid contract" to IGN and asked them to pull out of the event or something. No idea.
I wrote a blog and agreed to an interview because I wanted to share my perspective on the whole matter. I'm not the one who "vilified" him; he chose to do that with his own actions & decisions. And CheekyDuck admitting that she told him not to defend himself in the public eye sure didn't help.
Not sure what the Skype logs are supposed to be demonstrating either. Unfortunately I no longer have these logs, I've been through 3 computers since then and mine only go back as far as September 2012.
YoonYJ quit SC2 last year. He came on Skype today and shared the following logs (from FB I assume):
CD: You are so angry over being disrepected, you guys screwed over perfectly legit people
YYJ: "YYJ/Dox posts are full of lies and twisted truths"
YYJ: ahaha dont know where u got this
YYJ: lol
YYJ: never lied about a thing
YYJ: but what youre writing is really gonna backfire on you
YYJ: its not true
YYJ: youre just led by your emotions
All throughout the TL thread, people like pdd and UHF constantly highlight the fact that the figures add up. There is a very tiny amount of money unaccounted for, but nothing suggests that Amanda stole $5000+ like CheekyDuck claims. She has zero evidence to prove this. Each time she is asked to respond to this, she says "Try again with a calculator" or "Do the math." She also says she's withholding information. There was a long post from AvoiderDragon essentially countering all her points. She pretty much ignores it all and focuses on the fact that I was apparently "trying to steal the lime light and taking credit for someones hard work." She's referring to a handful of contributions to Liquipedia. Literally everything she says about me in this post is a mystery to me. No idea what print stuff she's referring to. I never associated myself with the PPSL event. I only said I was running the Australian Qualifiers. And I did, 100%. She never called me on Skype about stream cheating. Apparently I gained a lot from the PPSL fallout, she seems to think this is what created Nv. I don't understand how the two are connected. She often takes statements and twists them to vilify me. Ironic!
Gorlin's post pretty much sums it up.
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On April 17 2013 14:57 -CheekyDuck- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 17 2013 14:45 UHF wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 14:42 -CheekyDuck- wrote:
so 30 days then? look the stream was pulled because of the sc2sea post. David thing admits that in email. doesn't have anything to do with internet issues. Could you please repost where David explicitly admits in an email that the stream was removed due to the post on sc2sea, as I can't seem to find it. this was one of the last emails from David Ting. the email before he was wishing us luck Day2! David doesn't answer calls or respond to the email about how day2 went better. please. as you can see it links the YYJ post. thats why the dox contract is so important. its just not fair.
Again, as I stated, just post the contract. You saying it's not fair when there may have been (most likely there was) a breach of their agreement via this doesn't excuse what you think is fair or not. Let us read it if you can't handle/interpret it,
He's asking Gus to explain, did gus email an explanation in black and white? You are not posting his response so I am doubtful Gus even made an email to explain to David Ting. So how is it "not fair".
Not to go and assume what IPL/IGN did, but I would go as far as say they could have pulled out anytime. Day 1 was abysmal, and even day 2 was for me. Although the stream was a bit more stable, it was only viewable in 360p but still looked in between 240p and 360p.
And I think IPL even had to recast the bouts via replays and those were more than watchable.
So post the contract and we will gladly interpret it, or is there something you don't want us to see in the damned contract which would show that IGN had every right to pull out of PPSL and even had no obligation anymore to even pony up the remaining 50% balance?
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On April 17 2013 14:57 -CheekyDuck- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 14:45 UHF wrote:On April 17 2013 14:42 -CheekyDuck- wrote:
so 30 days then? look the stream was pulled because of the sc2sea post. David thing admits that in email. doesn't have anything to do with internet issues. Could you please repost where David explicitly admits in an email that the stream was removed due to the post on sc2sea, as I can't seem to find it. this was one of the last emails from David Ting. the email before he was wishing us luck Day2! David doesn't answer calls or respond to the email about how day2 went better. please. as you can see it links the YYJ post. thats why the dox contract is so important. its just not fair.
You've posted this several times, and yet all it shows is that David Ting wants to know the explanation of why YYJ didn't attend when the contract was for them to send two players to PPSL. Asking for explanations is not evidence of a cause.
Also, I haven't seen anything that suggests that the delay to the tournament that Dox ran is enough cause to terminate the contract. Yes, it was a breach (even if it was discussed between them to delay it, the contract wasn't updated), but a breach doesn't necessarily give justification to allow termination (in legal speak, not all breaches are fundamental breaches).
The 'Dox' contract: + Show Spoiler +
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On April 17 2013 15:07 -CheekyDuck- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 15:02 HiTeK532 wrote:On April 17 2013 14:53 Fyrewolf wrote:On April 17 2013 13:04 -CheekyDuck- wrote:
(stream cheating) because it is a major issue in the thread, I would like to clarify and confess that it was my fault that YYJ's ticket was not immediately issued with Rossi's. I informed Dox and Gus and blew the whistle that "stream cheating" occurred. It was based on information i received in confidence from YYJ. My intention was to force a justified rematch that would of benefited mOOnglaDe and my sister. (when i get home i will post the screen shot from skype with the time stamp) You say you got the information about possible streamcheating from YYJ. And yet, in the skype log you posted, when you talk about it, he says he doesn't think it was stream cheating? [10/29/2011 9:45:46 PM] the cheekyduck: look yoon, the thing is rossi was stream cheating [10/29/2011 9:45:53 PM] Yojun Yoon: wtf [10/29/2011 9:45:55 PM] the cheekyduck: so gus i already pissed [10/29/2011 9:45:59 PM] Yojun Yoon: how do you know [10/29/2011 9:46:01 PM] Yojun Yoon: wtf ? [10/29/2011 9:46:09 PM] the cheekyduck: yeah i saw tarossi in my chat box [10/29/2011 9:46:23 PM] Yojun Yoon: nono [10/29/2011 9:46:27 PM] Yojun Yoon: dont think it was Stream cheating is a serious accusation that can ruin a person's esports career. If this lame chatlog is the only kind of evidence you shouldn't have posted that part into a public forum (if it was just private speculation you should have edited and left it private) to begin with. If there are other logs with something more concrete you should have posted those first if you wanted to make a real accusation, but if this kind of hearsay is all there is, then making such accusations public in this thread is pretty bullshit. Doesn't TL typically have standards for this type of thing I've seen people get banned for stream cheating/hacking accusations with more evidence than this. The fact that this has stood for so long without it being edited out is worrying. How often do we see people start e-mailing sponsors based off knee jerk reactions to reading something like this. Why didn't YYJ get ticket? this is why! it doesn't matter if it was true or not, the fact is that rossi was in the stream chat, i thought he was cheating, i talked to yyj he said nono, its not him. and then told me they had a cheating pack. put then he could of been making it up. either way, i went to gus and tried to get a rematch. YYJ's ticket was in dispute, he wrote a blog on sc2sea, IGN shut ppsl down, Amanda got sponsorship money and donations from the comunity.
Did you even read my post? It had nothing to do with YYJ It has nothing to do with any plane tickets.
Your accusing a player of cheating and your evidence to him doing consists of you saying he was in the stream chat and another player saying he didn't think he was cheating. Then you state that he was cheating as if your evidence makes it an indisputable fact.
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On April 17 2013 15:18 lisward wrote:Taken from Dox's Blog, so that you guys can see his response to Cheekyduck.Tuesday, 16 April 2013 How To Save A Life Well. What a wild couple of days.
For the sake of clarity, if you aren't going to lock the initial post then at least quote Dox' reply in full in it so there's some (lol) pretense of objectivity.
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Well, unfortunately she has already made it clear she is trying to right her wrong, serious guilt for her premature whistle blowing to get her sister's boyfriend a rematch ( no bias for practically family member right?). Just seems like her conscience couldn't handle the guilt anymore and is trying to palm it off using this what seems to be a quickly diffusing Amanda debacle. As many people have said being in a stream chat box proves nothing, many people just mute/pause streams rather then closing. He lost, you shouldn't have got so emotionally attached to a close one in a professional work environment.
Shame, used to be cool.
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Cheeky, please understand that whether or not you disprove Gus Ledesma as a thief, he still was very poor at managing this entire process, before and after the event. This poor management led to one or two people being out of pocket. Whether or not the money that is out of pocket was 'stolen' by Gus is irrelevant. It's a long time ago. This has happened over a dozen times in South-East Asia eSports alone.
This thread has nowhere to go. You need to apologise to Amanda, Rossi and Dox immediately and leave this alone, because there is not one person on the entire internet who is on your side, apart from Gus.
But then again, the idiot doesn't have a computer anymore, does he?
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On April 17 2013 14:57 -CheekyDuck- wrote:this was one of the last emails from David Ting. the email before he was wishing us luck Day2! David doesn't answer calls or respond to the email about how day2 went better.
How does this even remotely translate into David Ting admitting he pulled the stream based on the post of sc2sea?
It's just another one of your cherry-picked images used to bolster your accusations, when in reality it's not even remotely close to what you say it is. The silly thing is, I could pick apart your accusations for days with the amount of holes that are littered through it. I just don't understand what the point of it all is - it all arrives back at Gus.
Can you please at least post the contract that Gus and IGN had, so we can see exactly the details behind the whole situation. That way we can at least see a bigger picture instead of the bits you've conveniently picked out.
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This thread seems so pointless...why it was allowed to be presented 1.5 year later boggles my mind a bit.
*It's clearly biased in it's presentation
*The evidence is weak at best and open to scrutiny.
*It does nothing to prove anyone accused of wrong doing is innocent or anyone innocent did anything wrong.
That's really all that seems to matter here....Maybe Amanda got money she shouldn't of....maybe she didn't. Gus still clearly ran things poorly...so who the heck cares? If this evidence is really so compelling it proves wrong doing take it to the right authorities.
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On April 17 2013 15:50 iMSundeR wrote:
You need to apologise to Amanda
I'm beginning to think that Amanda is the worst victim out of this. I just read through the Facebook conversation posted by CheekyDuck in the OP, and CD basically hounds her to get her to admit to stealing, then accuses her of lying, having no conscience, tells her she's "a bad person", and basically ends it with "i only hope they treat you as kindly as they treated Gus". And the result of all this is that at most there's ~$800 missing (out of $12,000), which could be down to fees and different rates being used. I'm just surprised that Amanda managed to keep calm during all the accusations and let CD say whatever she wanted to.
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On April 17 2013 15:03 -CheekyDuck- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 14:53 Fyrewolf wrote:On April 17 2013 13:04 -CheekyDuck- wrote:
(stream cheating) because it is a major issue in the thread, I would like to clarify and confess that it was my fault that YYJ's ticket was not immediately issued with Rossi's. I informed Dox and Gus and blew the whistle that "stream cheating" occurred. It was based on information i received in confidence from YYJ. My intention was to force a justified rematch that would of benefited mOOnglaDe and my sister. (when i get home i will post the screen shot from skype with the time stamp) You say you got the information about possible streamcheating from YYJ. And yet, in the skype log you posted, when you talk about it, he says he doesn't think it was stream cheating? [10/29/2011 9:45:46 PM] the cheekyduck: look yoon, the thing is rossi was stream cheating [10/29/2011 9:45:53 PM] Yojun Yoon: wtf [10/29/2011 9:45:55 PM] the cheekyduck: so gus i already pissed [10/29/2011 9:45:59 PM] Yojun Yoon: how do you know [10/29/2011 9:46:01 PM] Yojun Yoon: wtf ? [10/29/2011 9:46:09 PM] the cheekyduck: yeah i saw tarossi in my chat box [10/29/2011 9:46:23 PM] Yojun Yoon: nono [10/29/2011 9:46:27 PM] Yojun Yoon: dont think it was Stream cheating is a serious accusation that can ruin a person's esports career. If this lame chatlog is the only kind of evidence you shouldn't have posted that part into a public forum (if it was just private speculation you should have edited and left it private) to begin with. If there are other logs with something more concrete you should have posted those first if you wanted to make a real accusation, but if this kind of hearsay is all there is, then making such accusations public in this thread is pretty bullshit. yes i was very suspitious, thais was before me and YYJ spoke in person. YYJ is so keen to post parts of my chat logs, (dox blog) why doesn't he post the conversation he had with BEE on skype that black and white caused this!
You caused this, you brought it up... no one else had ever heard of allegations of Rossi stream cheating and the only 'evidence' is some mystical chat log between Livibee and YYJ which no one else has ever seen or heard about. Not to mention that Livibee said on 15/4 on sc2sea.com chat that she had 'lost' the chatlog.
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It's quite the interesting read, but I believe this thread needs to be closed because too many peoples' livelihoods are at risk of being or are already being affected. This is not the court room, so we really shouldn't be judging anyone even if there is insurmountable evidence, because who knows, maybe there's evidence being withheld back that may only show up in court? I do not want to see a community go on another witch hunt because it always ends up with someone that gets screwed.
CheekyDuck, this is all great information which you have compiled and provided to the community, but if you were planning to incite the community to jump into action and "roast" someone, please don't. The behind-the-scenes information was more than enough to show us that maybe this wasn't all of Gus's fault, but it went too far with Rossi being accused of stream-cheating and Dox taking the lime-light of PPSL. You are right when you said that the people need to know the truth, but there can be many truths in which you only explored one facet of it. It's become hard to take you seriously because you are trying too hard now.
I usually don't post, but when something big like the potential for someone like Rossi's career to be damaged and Dox and Amanda are under fire (because you incited it), I have to say that you should stop and if you are really adamant about bringing this to justice, use the court room and not the community. I'm not sure you provided this amount of information just so that we could look at it and be in awe. You have another motive.
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On April 17 2013 15:07 -CheekyDuck- wrote:
Why didn't YYJ get ticket? this is why! it doesn't matter if it was true or not, the fact is that rossi was in the stream chat, i thought he was cheating, i talked to yyj he said nono, its not him.
Wow, that's irresponsible.
You "thought" he was stream cheating, yet you put him on blast?
Not only you potentially ruin someone's SC2 career, you could possibly get NV to lose their sponsors because of your careless accusations.
If the event that they (Rossi, Team NV) lose their sponsorship/s because of your false accusations, you could be held accountable. I'm not sure if the rules apply here in Australia, but in USA that's called "Defamation".
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TLADT24920 Posts
I don't know much about PPSL and I must've somehow missed the drama when it all went down so I figured that reading this thread would help out. The OP though, was so painful to read. As already mentioned, might be detailed to some degree, but it does not flow and when you have 0 idea of what's went down, it's like trying to connect a ton of dots all over the place. I do think I got a good idea of what went down based on the posters who went through the effort to clarify the situation so many thanks to you guys!
I can't help but notice a personal vendetta(right term?). I mean, no evidence for stream cheating other than an assumption which somehow became a fact that can hurt a player's career. You even go as far as mentioning that you fought vigorously to get a rematch for moonglade then admit that he was dating your sister so there was incentive there. Likewise, those facebook posts in Dox's blog were just ridiculous. I mean, you accused him of wrong doing then said he had two questions to answer but you just kept talking smack talking and not even asked them so what was the point of even starting that post? bringing attention to the issue? truth?
Also, your OP seemed extremely biased towards Gus. I mean, the thread title before it got changed to calling him a hero etc... with poor evidence to boot. Whatever happened to presenting the evidence and remaining objective then letting people decide on it? As soon as you took it upon yourself to fix Gus' reputation, you automatically lost your objectivity.Personally, I think it's quite possible that he just mismanaged everything and in turn, that caused issues. From everything I've read, that's what I'm leaning towards however bringing other people whether it's IGN members, team members or Amanda herself and blaming them for the issues or in Amanda's case, for stealing money when the evidence has been proven to be false is just flat out wrong. Even reading through your facebook chat with Amanda, it felt less of a fact finding mission and more of an interrogation since you already determined by that point that she was guilty. Innocent until proven guilty wasn't applied there ><
Finally, I do feel like you want justice in the end but the way you went about it, ie your tactics were plain bad. If you are so sure of the truth, that Amanda stole, etc... then at least give us all the information including contracts, all emails, etc... so that we can read it and agree as a community whether what you say took place, if it infact did. As it stands, seems like most disagree with you and your points heavily countered. Your move? 
Edit: Apologizes if I wrote anything wrong, complex case ^^
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Oh wow this is still open. Don't know what there is really left to discuss.
- Amanda's figures contain an $800 discrepancy, which could be attributed to a multitude of costs because we don't know every single cost incurred, especially interest charges and exchange rates.
- Evidence trying to show Dox / Rossi / Team NV as "evil" is pathetic, with people not being convinced at all.
- Proves Gus was incompetent at organising an event.
Since no one is still focusing on the Amanda issue (I guess because figures prove it's a non-issue) the new focus is on Dox and his team colluding with IGN to kill the PPSL and increase Dox's standing in the community. The poor evidence presented cannot support this at all.
It seems she is pissed off and trying to grasp at any possible means to "get back" at people that she thinks wronged her / Gus. Thing is the majority of people are not convinced and I think the majority would agree that this has backfired on her reputation and character instead.
I hope this gets closed soon, and she can abuse Dox and co. in private if that is what she wishes to do. The majority of the community isn't siding with her at all.
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