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if you cant explain something simply, then you dont understand it. so please, stop talking out of your ass. also, you may want to learn to maths and english better
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On April 16 2013 13:51 UHF wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 12:42 pdd wrote:Because of the emails from David Ting to Amanda, with the time and date stamp, 230 000php (from gus/azk that came from IPL funding)
Amanda then received 7k from IPL with the wavier
and apx $5172.27 from the community in donations (based on a hand written invoice) I think this might be my last post in this thread, as you are missing the points on a lot of our discussions. I'm going to talk in maths to make things simple. 230,000/42.85 = $5,367 (total amount paid by Gus) $5367k + 7,000 + $5,172 = $17,539 (total amount received by Amanda from IGN and Gus) 17,539 x 42.85 = P751,546 (same figure in PHP) P751,546 - 715,884 = P35,662 (amount unaccounted for) P35,662/42.85 = $832.25 (amount unaccounted for in PHP) From this $832.25, we have already identified that about $350 is from Gus's PHP15,000 payment and the rest is from IGN paying more than the $11,691.95, we calculated. Main point here being: While we can't account for the $832.25, we don't know if or how Amanda pocketed it. It could have been due to exchange rate fluctuations or she very likely could have used it to pay off some other expenses (ie: interests, bank fees), there are no further evidences. Also it's a stark contrast to the >$5000 you seemed to be implying Amanda profited in your OP Basically what pdd said. Cheeky, you've made one big assumption here. You think Amanda was knowingly altering quotes/numbers/receipts etc so that she could slice some money off the top for herself. The problem is that ALL of her invoicing numbers add up. There is no evidence to suggest she altered documents, changed figures, or was tacking on a few extra dollars here and there. There is a minor discrepancy with what the original invoice total stated, and the end amount of money she supposedly received. It looks like this number is $832.25. We know by your admission the $350 she received from Gus was for interest fees. We don't know if there was additional costs, invoices that aren't listed, or other fees that would come along when dealing with over $16,000 of expenses. You are assuming that this money wasn't needed to pay for something that Amanda was out of pocket for. Do you really think it's more feasible that someone risked going $16,000 in debt to try and make a few hundred dollars at the end of the day? Do you think she planned for Gus to not front up the money, plan for IGN to step in and organise $7,000 and also plan for the community to try raise $5,000 to pay of the debt, all the while alleged altering receipts, invoices and providing incorrect figures to make a little bit of money? Lastly onto IGN/IPL/David Ting. We do NOT know the full extent of the deal that was struck between the two parties. We do know however that in an email the following numbers were listed: - $12,000 Support for travel expenses - $2,500 Venue penalty fee - $3,000 Talent fee for Tastosis However there is never a formal agreement struck, and it's said that is confirmed 'in spirit' Later on we discover that $6,000 (50%) was given up front as per contract requirements, along with the $2,500 venue fee. So Amanda went $17,000 in debt paying for everything but was paid off in part (still had $12,000 outstanding). Gus had no money of his own to pay Amanda as per their agreement. Stuff hit the fan because of Gus's inability to organise/manage things properly, which in term lead to IGN putting the rest of the funds on hold. They even mentioned they'd release the funds if Gus set things straight, but for all they know if they gave the money to Gus, he could do a runner. I mean, he had already gone MIA during the event when things went bad. At the end of the day, Gus did not have the organisational skills or the money to make this event work. He was in way too far over his head. If you still do not see that, then there really is no point to this thread.
Thanks pdd and UHF for sorting through all the info and doing the math.
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Somehow it feels that cheeky is jumping on everything that transfers blame and guilt away from gus to other parties involved. I will be honest, it reads more like a teenager love"drama", than a real exposure.
Stop being dramatic and assumptive, and start being objective. You may or may not have a point, but at this point you just look hysteric to me. Also, for gods sake, stop trying to tarnish other peoples reputations based on, well, nothing. The only thing you achieve with that is that your OWN reputation gets severely damaged.
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On April 17 2013 00:29 ChriS-X wrote:
if you cant explain something simply, then you dont understand it. so please, stop talking out of your ass. also, you may want to learn to maths and english better
Spot the two Albert Einstein quotes on the page.
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On April 16 2013 12:28 -CheekyDuck- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 12:12 pdd wrote:Duck: You are double counting. Amanda received a confirmed amount of $12,172.27 from IGN + $5,367 (PHP230k) from Gus which equals the total of ~$17k or PHP751,546.15. She did not receive ~$17k from IGN + ~5k from Gus, at least not from the evidence you have provided. The documents below do not prove that she receive any additional money. They are merely waivers, and we always look at the receipts to prove money was passed to her. The figures quoted in the docs below could very well be part of the $12,172.27 given to her by IGN. + Show Spoiler +As the bill was only for PHP715.8k. The excess of 31,000 PHP (751k-715k) equals ~$850, ~$350 of which is the unaccounted PHP15k that Gus paid her as downpayment and ~$500 of which was the excess IGN gave her with the ~$12.2k (12.2k-11.7k). Now, there is no clear proof that this unaccounted $850 was pocketed by Amanda. It could have been spent on things which you do not have any documents for, or even bank/foreign exchange charges. Because of the emails from David Ting to Amanda, with the time and date stamp, 230 000php (from gus/azk that came from IPL funding) Amanda then received 7k from IPL with the wavier and apx $5172.27 from the community in donations (based on a hand written invoice) Look are you telling me a agency is going to give a man 12k line of credit, with no credit card, car, and a job that pays at the time 20k a year? with no contract. i can't believe people are seriously buying into this. and you can check the chat logs, she tells me this is "normal"
Two things:
1) How do you know what is or isn't "normal"?
2) If it is not normal then you are saying Amanda is wrong for having trusted the one guy you're trying to commend.
As others have pointed out the numbers add up, at worse THE TRAVEL AGENCY was overpaid about $800. Amanda essentially loaned out $12,000 and suddenly realized she was not getting paid. This would cause fear/panic/anxiety in ANY person, I have no doubts she seriously thought she could see jail time over the debacle as it was unfolding, even if she did no wrong (and again the only wrong she may have commited was trusting Gus). Whether or not she could face jail time is irrelevant as the figures do add up, whether or not she faced jail time ~$12,000 is about what was owed to the company she works for and that is approx. what they recieved. I'm willing to wager that the company she worked for didn't write her a check for any extra funds that they may or may not have recieved/were extra and that Amanda then in turn pocketed it.
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I had a hard time taking this post serious as soon as I saw Alex Conn listed as someone lying. I have done work for years with him and he has been one of the most honest and open people I have ever had the pleasure of working with. Whenever he had an issue he did not beat around the bush, he came to you and said it. I have worked with MANY people in E-Sports, and Alex Conn was ALWAYS the most upfront and more honest in all our time working together. To accuse him of setting up Gus/lying/whatever is laughable at best.
Combined with the unfounded stream cheating accusations, the fail math, the interrogation style chat logs, the obvious friendship bias of the op, and this very obviously sounding like Gus is trying to pave his way for re-entry into E-Sports, I have 0 faith in any of this post being true or accurate.
It's crazy TL mods have allowed this to stay open despite most of (if not all) the evidence provided being debunked, this is some shit for Reddit, and even they did not overly care.
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Let's analyze each of the allegations. I'll skip Amanda as, apparently, there is more information to be had, and UHF and pdd have already thoroughly examined what's readily available.
David
+ Show Spoiler +- Verbal promises about production, stream support, etc.
+ Show Spoiler +Most of the things mentioned are factual; I wouldn't necessarily call it a verbal promise or contract, but Gus did accept the conditions with the understanding that those amenities would be provided, perhaps causing him to overestimate the scale of the event.
- Retraction of verbal promise.
+ Show Spoiler +Minor nitpick: Cheeky's explanation doesn't match up with the screenshot. David clearly says "I have made it pretty clear when we met that my team is fairly stretched...", meaning that David addressed this change in their arrangement prior to the email. Probably at IPL 3 in Atlantic City, from the 6th of October to the 9th of October.
- Changing amount of funding, denied additional funding and refused release of funding.
+ Show Spoiler +From what I can gather, it went from 12k -> 29.5k -> 20k -> 12k. I'm not sure where David ever promised 29.5k (12k sponsorship + 17.5k extras). He said he was committed, but he required a call to formalize the terms. I'm assuming that this call resulted in the figure being revised to 20k (hard to tell without date of skype call).
From the contract, we know that this figure was actually 14500 (12000 sponsorship + 2500 venue cancellation). It's important to note that he never explicitly confirms the 20k amount in the interview. He says, verbatim: "If I recall correctly 20k, I think..." There's no way of truly knowing whether 20k was the agreed-upon amount as there is no contract.
The additional funding was apparently something David addressed in an earlier email or conversation, as he responds with "As I have explained to you..." Gus apparently knew beforehand that only half the funds would be released until after the event. At this point, the accompanying text really doesn't correspond to the screenshots of emails. How is David unreachable on Nov 3rd if he's having this series of emails with Gus on that day?
- Cancelling stream support because of SC2Sea Post.
+ Show Spoiler +Uh, no. Where does it say that in the email? David refers to the incident as a breach of contract, and asks for an explanation. Where is Gus's explanation? Why is that email missing?
- Ignoring Gus's emails and calls.
+ Show Spoiler +Obviously, the only person who can truly verify this is David himself. By the time Gus requests the rest of the funds (the half that was withheld until after the event), the PPSL was a complete disaster, Gus had conducted himself in the most unprofessional manner and calling them "mix-ups" didn't even begin to cover it.
- Many posts were made to conceal IPL involvement.
+ Show Spoiler +How so? I would say that David's interview summed it up pretty nicely.
- False statements about suggestions to focus on stream/online component.
+ Show Spoiler +I don't know how you can prove that David didn't suggest any of that through a phone call, or in person.
TL;DR: David reduces his sponsorship due to financial constraints, Gus fails to adapt accordingly.
Alex
+ Show Spoiler +- "PPSL was never waiting for money from us."
+ Show Spoiler + Full quote: "... our agreement with the PPSL included a schedule for payments which we were up to date on - PPSL was never waiting for money from us." So, actually a true statement.
- "Providing a streaming channel."
+ Show Spoiler +... And funds, which is true. They decided to pull it because it was a disaster.
- "Taking its winner to IPL 4"
+ Show Spoiler +
- "Only caster we were aware of was Tastosis".
+ Show Spoiler +Hard to verify, but Tastosis was the only caster duo mentioned in the email for the $3000 talent fee.
- "... do not feel confident PPSL can present a watchable product..." "... taken away their streaming privileges..."
+ Show Spoiler +Again, I don't know how you can say that this is a lie.
- Alex told IPL about YYJ situation, causing stream cancellation.
+ Show Spoiler +No evidence for this whatsoever. Correlation does not imply causation, and there were a slew of problems that led to this outcome.
TL;DR: Alex, as an employee, communicates his current understanding of the situation to the community and does his job.
Dox
+ Show Spoiler +This is where things start to get petty... - Didn't know about IPL until September 28th.
+ Show Spoiler +What date was the original contract? How do we know this was the original contract and not the updated one? I'm not questioning if you modified it, I'm questioning if it's provided in the right context.
- Made misleading comments about contract details.
+ Show Spoiler +See above, I don't know how a picture of an alleged original contract proves anything. Is there a signed one?
- Contract wasn't honoured.
+ Show Spoiler +Articles 5, 11 and 12 of the limited terms and conditions for services covers this, if Gus was unhappy with the situation he should've acted on it. Also, not sure where you're getting the passport deadline date of 8th October (in the contract, the tournament ends by the 9th) and the 2nd November date isn't sourced.
- Gus bribing Moonglade.
+ Show Spoiler +How was this proved/disproved in any way? Why is this even relevant?
- Streamcheating knowledge.
+ Show Spoiler +Should be deleted. You said yourself: solely based on verbal testimony, or, thin air. This is actually the most outrageous part.
- Contacted IGN about PPSL.
+ Show Spoiler +
- Vilified Gus.
+ Show Spoiler +Honestly, Gus did himself no favours by pulling a disappearing act. Everyone in this topic seems to be echoing similar sentiments. Gus was more than welcome to share his side of the story, but chose to run.
TL;DR: Dox runs a qualifier later than planned, Gus allows it and proceeds to paints himself into a corner promising flights with money he simply doesn't have.
YYJ
+ Show Spoiler +That full chatlog shouldn't have been posted. It was personal, ugly and it offered nothing but a glimpse into the former friendship of two individuals. Completely unnecessary.
TL;DR: YYJ is led to believe that he'll be going to the PPSL by Gus, finds out last minute that isn't the case, is understandably upset and comes to a misguided conclusion on how events unfolded.
CheekyDuck
+ Show Spoiler +You were involved to the extent that I question your ability to be impartial. The way you hounded Amanda and treated her as guilty before proven innocent was disgusting. You blame: - David "going back on his word" and changing sponsorship.
+ Show Spoiler +He's free to change the level of his commitment up until the agreed-upon contract, there's nothing wrong with that. Gus was more dishonest in his attempts to change the terms of payment from his sponsor to compensate for his poor planning.
- Alex "maliciously and knowingly" spreading misinformation.
+ Show Spoiler +
- Dox delaying the event causing unforeseen funding limitations.
+ Show Spoiler +Did Gus even have the funds to send more than one player from the Australian qualifiers to begin with? Or did he not account for an unexpected expense like a contractual obligation and blow it all on goodie bags and uniforms?
- YYJ for not sending his passport in time.
+ Show Spoiler +Yet Gus inconspicuously escapes blame for his botched handling by straight up lying to a player for a week. Not to mention that a player from the same qualifier was still able to attend; did they both send their passports in at significantly different times?
- Amanda saying the bookings were closed. And for being a mastermind criminal with a ridiculously low profit margin.
+ Show Spoiler +If the bookings are closed, they're closed. This is a moot point if the previous two points are true and Gus doesn't have the money anyway.
- YYJ and Dox for "ratting" PPSL out and resulting in sponsorship withdrawal.
+ Show Spoiler +From what I've read the flights were booked in early November, YYJ addressed Gus late October. Gus didn't want to pay for him at that time, but decided to see if he could fit him in last minute. He couldn't. He seemingly gave YYJ's spot in the tournament to NEXSickness, who just happened to be conveniently flown in, and then blamed funding shortfall on IPL. Coincidence or not, you can see how bad that looks.
TL;DR: Gus is not malicious, but he is not innocent either. He is merely incompetent (evident by numerous comments made in this very thread) and still deserves the lion's share of the blame. He was insistent on receiving full credit for the outcome of this event, and I truly hope he continues to do so.
If CheekyDuck's thread is allowed to stay open, I hope she can provide some more conclusive evidence soon. There is too much speculation and slander in her accusations, and those remarks, some overly personal in nature, should be edited out until she can properly provide proof.
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On April 17 2013 06:05 HauntYou wrote:Let's analyze each of the allegations. I'll skip Amanda as, apparently, there is more information to be had, and UHF and pdd have already thoroughly examined what's readily available. Alex+ Show Spoiler +- "PPSL was never waiting for money from us."
+ Show Spoiler + Full quote: "... our agreement with the PPSL included a schedule for payments which we were up to date on - PPSL was never waiting for money from us." So, actually a true statement.
- "Providing a streaming channel."
+ Show Spoiler +... And funds, which is true. They decided to pull it because it was a disaster.
- "Taking its winner to IPL 4"
+ Show Spoiler +
- "Only caster we were aware of was Tastosis".
+ Show Spoiler +Hard to verify, but Tastosis was the only caster duo mentioned in the email for the $3000 talent fee.
- "... do not feel confident PPSL can present a watchable product..." "... taken away their streaming privileges..."
+ Show Spoiler +Again, I don't know how you can say that this is a lie.
- Alex told IPL about YYJ situation, causing stream cancellation.
+ Show Spoiler +No evidence for this whatsoever. Correlation does not imply causation, and there were a slew of problems that led to this outcome.
TL;DR: Alex, as an employee, communicates his current understanding of the situation to the community and does his job. [*] Alex "maliciously and knowingly" spreading misinformation.+ Show Spoiler +If CheekyDuck's thread is allowed to stay open, I hope she can provide some more conclusive evidence soon. There is too much speculation and slander in her accusations, and those remarks, some overly personal in nature, should be edited out until she can properly provide proof.
Thank you for this post. I do not understand how CD can warp facts so badly just to justify her viewpoint.
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I'll happily sit by and allow you to fabricate garbage about me, but you MUST remove all the bullshit about stream cheating. You know it's not true, everyone else knows it's not true. This is potentially damaging to Rossi's career, and our brand/sponsors. I want it gone by Friday.
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Oh my god, I want this thread to end or moved or something. Its is like watching 6 people argue in public and its super awkward.
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I really did not expect to see this pop up again. I remember the massive fail storm and how worse it made the Philippines look. :\
On April 17 2013 07:05 Dox wrote:
I'll happily sit by and allow you to fabricate garbage about me, but you MUST remove all the bullshit about stream cheating. You know it's not true, everyone else knows it's not true. This is potentially damaging to Rossi's career, and our brand/sponsors. I want it gone by Friday.
The dragon has spoken.
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Dox you said you were going to come forward and do the right thing. Many people did.
Gus did not steal the money, and was not solely responsible for the claims made in the YYJ post that shut down the event,
Yes, while my writing may be over emotional, please allow me some time to put everything together more clearly.
and it is my fault that i didn't present the information in an understandable way.
but to answer the questions below on what the emails say.
David
- Verbal promises about production, stream support, etc.
+ Show Spoiler +Most of the things mentioned are factual; I wouldn't necessarily call it a verbal promise or contract, but Gus did accept the conditions with the understanding that those amenities would be provided, perhaps causing him to overestimate the scale of the event.
Well thank-you for agreeing that there was an understanding that resources would be provided
- Retraction of verbal promise.
+ Show Spoiler +Minor nitpick: Cheeky's explanation doesn't match up with the screenshot. David clearly says "I have made it pretty clear when we met that my team is fairly stretched...", meaning that David addressed this change in their arrangement prior to the email. Probably at IPL 3 in Atlantic City, from the 6th of October to the 9th of October.
Once the event for IPL3 happened, there was no funding to send a support team, but the point still stands that the PPSL moved the date which allowed the IPL3 to have the players they wanted to play.
So another deal was discussed, if his staff cannot come to the event, then more money will be needed (20K was agreed upon)
- Changing amount of funding, denied additional funding and refused release of funding.
+ Show Spoiler +From what I can gather, it went from 12k -> 29.5k -> 20k -> 12k. I'm not sure where David ever promised 29.5k (12k sponsorship + 17.5k extras). He said he was committed, but he required a call to formalize the terms. I'm assuming that this call resulted in the figure being revised to 20k (hard to tell without date of skype call).
From the contract, we know that this figure was actually 14500 (12000 sponsorship + 2500 venue cancellation). It's important to note that he never explicitly confirms the 20k amount in the interview. He says, verbatim: "If I recall correctly 20k, I think..." There's no way of truly knowing whether 20k was the agreed-upon amount as there is no contract.
The additional funding was apparently something David addressed in an earlier email or conversation, as he responds with "As I have explained to you..." Gus apparently knew beforehand that only half the funds would be released until after the event. At this point, the accompanying text really doesn't correspond to the screenshots of emails. How is David unreachable on Nov 3rd if he's having this series of emails with Gus on that day?
As Gus was not the only manager of PPSL, this call happened without Gus, the manager txt's Gus that 20k is now the new agreement. (also David ting does a video interview and states that 20k was the agreed funding)
a written contract for ipl staff or extra money was not implemented, this resulted in IPL being able to legally back out of the verbal commitments (or understandings)
ipl3-(oct) PPSl (nov) not much time
Gus tires to contact everyone he knows at IGN, as funding is a real issue and YYJ wants to be flown to Manila.
David has taken offense to this, and Gus apologies and points out that if he checks the time stamp on the other emails that he contacted David Ting first. (David Ting from the email history after the event does in fact never reply to Gus directly unless it is through Amanda)
- Cancelling stream support because of SC2Sea Post.
+ Show Spoiler +Uh, no. Where does it say that in the email? David refers to the incident as a breach of contract, and asks for an explanation. Where is Gus's explanation? Why is that email missing?
- Ignoring Gus's emails and calls.
+ Show Spoiler +Obviously, the only person who can truly verify this is David himself. By the time Gus requests the rest of the funds (the half that was withheld until after the event), the PPSL was a complete disaster, Gus had conducted himself in the most unprofessional manner and calling them "mix-ups" didn't even begin to cover it.
No i have the emails from Gunrun explains to David Ting they had major issues with *blah* *blah* but its going good.
people forget that Day2 was great, only minor hicups and a lot of issues solved.
David Ting cleary states enjoy day 2.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/v0zNDLp.png)
But when the post of sc2sea is sent to David, he pulls the event from ipl stream.
+ Show Spoiler +
Gus calls on the mobile and i think Skype. he sends an email, but i am told that david ting is now ignoring him (most likely due to the internet hate)
+ Show Spoiler +
- Many posts were made to conceal IPL involvement.
+ Show Spoiler +How so? I would say that David's interview summed it up pretty nicely.
they said there involvement was limited to funding and provided a stream, as you can hear from the recording, email, this is not the case.
- False statements about suggestions to focus on stream/online component.
+ Show Spoiler +I don't know how you can prove that David didn't suggest any of that through a phone call, or in person.
TL;DR: David reduces his sponsorship due to financial constraints, Gus fails to adapt accordingly.
[/spoiler]
Yes but there are bigger issues, like David freezing the funds requested by Amanda (imaging if Qantas or flight center did that) A debt to a flight agency (if lending a 12k line of credit is normal as stated by amanda, then they can afford to wait)
can be put on a payment plan, staff however, and hotel rooms are more of an immediate expense.
David did give "recommendations" on who he did and didNOT want at the event. i don't think that is fair to post for obvious reasons.
Alex
- "PPSL was never waiting for money from us."
+ Show Spoiler + Full quote: "... our agreement with the PPSL included a schedule for payments which we were up to date on - PPSL was never waiting for money from us." So, actually a true statement.
Not if you include the "understandings" as you put it, or the verbal contract. but Gus was waitng for the other 50% when the funds were frozen by David ting on information supplied by amanda there is no dispute there, that did happen. to say they were "never" waiting is not a fair statement. They were waiting for lots of things, support, extra money, David ting.
- "Providing a streaming channel."
+ Show Spoiler +... And funds, which is true. They decided to pull it because it was a disaster.
- "Taking its winner to IPL 4"
+ Show Spoiler +
this is really unture, the issues of the stream were raised in advance, they pulled because of a simple sc2sea.com post and the claims made, the event itself was given the chance to prove itself before then.
- "Only caster we were aware of was Tastosis".
+ Show Spoiler +Hard to verify, but Tastosis was the only caster duo mentioned in the email for the $3000 talent fee.
i need time to find the screen shot, but we (my sister and I) did a lot of work for AZK, and it is not uncommon for us to work unpaid. But they were informed that 2 AZK caster were to be at the event, and that i did cast most of the AZK ipl4 qualifiers online with them watching.
- "... do not feel confident PPSL can present a watchable product..." "... taken away their streaming privileges..."
+ Show Spoiler +Again, I don't know how you can say that this is a lie.
If they didn't believe, why would David ting say this?
- Alex told IPL about YYJ situation, causing stream cancellation.
+ Show Spoiler +No evidence for this whatsoever. Correlation does not imply causation, and there were a slew of problems that led to this outcome.
TL;DR: Alex, as an employee, communicates his current understanding of the situation to the community and does his job.
[/spoiler]
well this was my mistake, Alex should be changed to Josh. but the point is still valid.
all problems were communicated with IGN ahead of time, having a stream delayed is expected, running an event with little to no funding was also expected and a non issue.
bribing players, replacing players, and breaking contact are a big issue.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zUY1glc.png)
Dox
This is where things start to get petty...
- Didn't know about IPL until September 28th.
+ Show Spoiler +What date was the original contract? How do we know this was the original contract and not the updated one? I'm not questioning if you modified it, I'm questioning if it's provided in the right context.
there are 4 contracts i think, Gus was forwarded them (Gus never signed them)
but the dates for when the event needed to be finished had stayed the same. (the guy that signed the contract wanted the event canceled because the flight prices were too expensive, because they didn't finish the event on time) somewhat of this is reflected in my skype conversation to dox.
- Made misleading comments about contract details.
+ Show Spoiler +See above, I don't know how a picture of an alleged original contract proves anything. Is there a signed one?
The contract is cropped and circled. giving the idea that AZK didn;t pay up on time, didn't give the 2 tickets that they were owed.
now if you see the contract in its whole, there is a non disclosure etc. there is also the responsibilities that dox needs to preform, and dates that the events need to be finished by.
9th of october, this was delayed to let mOOnglaDe play, as he is a close friend of DOX. the event finished on the 28th oct.
it would be impossible to buy flights on the 24th oct (this was there deadline, they believed they would get players names by the 9th oct)
now passport information didn't come until the 2 NOV, i think everyone needs to accept this was just unfortunate and with the "sonny go incident" bickering of the wiki, it was management communication and stubbornness that caused this. Being part of AZK i told them both Dox and YYJ that YYJ could not go because the event was delayed and the prices are too expensive.
Dox was also informed of the money azk was willing to spend on tickets.
- Contract wasn't honoured.
+ Show Spoiler +Articles 5, 11 and 12 of the limited terms and conditions for services covers this, if Gus was unhappy with the situation he should've acted on it. Also, not sure where you're getting the passport deadline date of 8th October (in the contract, the tournament ends by the 9th) and the 2nd November date isn't sourced.
Sorry - 9th of october is when the event is meant to be completed, this was delayed to let mOOnglaDe play, as he is a close friend of DOX. the event finished on the 28th oct.
it would be impossible to buy flights on the 24th oct (this was there deadline, they believed they would get players names by the 9th oct and be able to get the tickets at latest 24th)
now passport information didn't come until the 2 NOV
and ill post that screen shot here:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HrYTBjT.png)
- Gus bribing Moonglade.
+ Show Spoiler +How was this proved/disproved in any way? Why is this even relevant?
I have been working to get this removed from the internet.
I was directly involved (before the dox event) to secure him a ticket. It was selfish of me to try and secure our family holiday.
Andy and my Sister are dating, so i approached team AZK management with Andy to negotiate terms as i had information early that violet was dropped so i saw an opportunity.
Dox made the claim, and the internet ran with it. when you see: Andy's name removed on request. Thats us girls yelling at Andy to not let those lies be printed.
its relevant because it caused a major witch hunt.
- Streamcheating knowledge.
+ Show Spoiler +Should be deleted. You said yourself: solely based on verbal testimony, or, thin air. This is actually the most outrageous part.
Yoon can always come forward and post his skype logs to bee.
- Contacted IGN about PPSL.
+ Show Spoiler +
Dox has denied doing this.
- Vilified Gus.
+ Show Spoiler +Honestly, Gus did himself no favours by pulling a disappearing act. Everyone in this topic seems to be echoing similar sentiments. Gus was more than welcome to share his side of the story, but chose to run.
you come forward and no one gets paid. everyone including myself believe amanda's debt was real. He did not sell out or rat on a single person publicity if i remember.
i was there and he did not run away. he was late to the hotel, expenses from clive and amanda were meant to be dealt with in team, it was a non issue as i already offered to foot the bill when i arrived in the morning. Everything about him disappearing is him being ignored by people or people threatening his life. His interview, no one wanted a sorry, they wanted to know why he stole the money, its hard to explain that there was no money and to not make anyone else look bad and or by saying any incriminating statements about parties your still hoping will cough up the dough.
TL;DR: Dox runs a qualifier later than planned, Gus allows it and proceeds to paints himself into a corner promising flights with money he simply doesn't have.
[/spoiler]
Untrue, he told them no. I was the middle person, i told them no. i pressured Gus into asking IGN, and talked YYJ into really wanting to go, and ask IGN and i talked to DOX to ask IGN. I asked Amanda who is "suppose" to be a travel agent, she said yes, then later said it was too expensive but then told Gus the flights are all booked.
Gus said he will try to get YYJ to go, since Dox told him he was going.
YYJ
+ Show Spoiler +That full chatlog shouldn't have been posted. It was personal, ugly and it offered nothing but a glimpse into the former friendship of two individuals. Completely unnecessary.
YYJ is doing this because he is offended. I was the one who was also giving YYJ information, information that was misrepresented in the sc2sea post.
TL;DR: YYJ is led to believe that he'll be going to the PPSL by Gus, finds out last minute that isn't the case, is understandably upset and comes to a misguided conclusion on how events unfolded.
Not if you give your passport last minute. NOV2 and the event is the 9th?
CheekyDuck
[spoiler]You were involved to the extent that I question your ability to be impartial.
The way you hounded Amanda and treated her as guilty before proven innocent was disgusting.
You blame:
- David "going back on his word" and changing sponsorship.
+ Show Spoiler +He's free to change the level of his commitment up until the agreed-upon contract, there's nothing wrong with that. Gus was more dishonest in his attempts to change the terms of payment from his sponsor to compensate for his poor planning.
Gus was naive to believe and didn't consider someone going back on there word.
The contract was verbally discussed changes because the ipl support team to run the event was pulled.
(this was all done from concept to completion in roughly 6 months, when IPL name was attached, they wanted the big casters, an expense that Gus clearly states they cannot afford)
- Alex "maliciously and knowingly" spreading misinformation.
+ Show Spoiler +
IGN contact was Josh, but alex should have been privy to the emails that amanda admitted she was not going to jail. or the emails of david ting in general.
- Dox delaying the event causing unforeseen funding limitations.
+ Show Spoiler +Did Gus even have the funds to send more than one player from the Australian qualifiers to begin with? Or did he not account for an unexpected expense like a contractual obligation and blow it all on goodie bags and uniforms?
The funds we doubled because of the delay, so 2 tickets for the price of one.
Dox was given there expectations of flight costs. which had nothing to do with Gus as he was not sponsoring these flights.
- YYJ for not sending his passport in time.
+ Show Spoiler +Yet Gus inconspicuously escapes blame for his botched handling by straight up lying to a player for a week. Not to mention that a player from the same qualifier was still able to attend; did they both send their passports in at significantly different times?
He didn't lie. how can you say that the mOOnglaDe thing doens't matter and then you bring it up here.
I was in talks to get all 3 players to go, that was my intention. mOOnglaDe would of been sponsored by a personal sponsor and was not getting paid for by Gus. Like i said in my chat to DOX, he would take Violets spot.
- Amanda saying the bookings were closed. And for being a mastermind criminal with a ridiculously low profit margin.
+ Show Spoiler +If the bookings are closed, they're closed. This is a moot point if the previous two points are true and Gus doesn't have the money anyway.
she told me the were $5000 and YYJ that it was $5000, but told Gus it was closed.
but i will go more into this later as i did have trouble presenting this information.
He didn't have the money because Amanda got david ting to freeze the funds.
deals were on a 50/50 and you are correct in that he didnt have the money personally but other managers behind the scenes did (and were happy to pay for expenses they saw as valid).
- YYJ and Dox for "ratting" PPSL out and resulting in sponsorship withdrawal.
+ Show Spoiler +From what I've read the flights were booked in early November, YYJ addressed Gus late October. Gus didn't want to pay for him at that time, but decided to see if he could fit him in last minute. He couldn't. He seemingly gave YYJ's spot in the tournament to NEXSickness, who just happened to be conveniently flown in, and then blamed funding shortfall on IPL. Coincidence or not, you can see how bad that looks.
yes thats what it looks like. and thats what they made it look like.
but here it is:
Gus didn't have much involvement with the YYJ flights, the other managers didn't want to pay due to the reason i stated above, and i informed them of those reasons.
(there were other avenues i presented to get a RE, but Targa was an Australian resident but his finland flag confused me on the wiki)
I harass the shit out of Gus, every day while i was there to send YYJ (this was after i told andy, gus, dox what YYJ told me and there was no time for a RE)
no one took YYJ's spot. the only spot taken is VIOLETS.
Gus was told YYJ was a very good player, but was worried about the other issues, tried his best to get a ticket (from his own pocket).
TL;DR: Gus is not malicious, but he is not innocent either. He is merely incompetent (evident by numerous comments made in this very thread) and still deserves the lion's share of the blame. He was insistent on receiving full credit for the outcome of this event, and I truly hope he continues to do so.
He gave a big speech the night before, i remember he said something like:
I know i put my name over this, and i am getting the credit,
but don't worry because if this go bad, i'll also take the blame.
And he kept his word imo.
I believe he is naive and he made decisions based on peoples word and trusted them. He took things for face value and didn't research into depth (like invoices).
but he wasn't this mastermind thief, he wasn't a monster.
he was a guy that was Part of running an event, that tore itself apart in the end.
and no one remembers day 2, which a lot of people overcame many issues and achieved a quality product.
But by keeping quiet, people like Amanda can get away with what they have done and look like an innocent victim.
....
i can change the stream cheating to.
CheekyDuck (with the time stamps) discussed with Gus (player name censored) (names of players and event organisers) that there is stream cheating against mOOnglaDe and that there should be a rematch.
because i have a skype screen shot of that.
But who cares about stream cheating, it was an online event, the event for such a decent prize should have been live.
even if someone is in the stream, you can't 100% prove anything. but this information was why YYJ was more of a reason not getting flown. And Targa, taking games and not wanting to go, really upset AZK.
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If Gus could not have performed what he promised with what was given in the written and signed contract then he should not have signed it. End of story. Stop saying we didn't deliver what we promised. We delivered exactly what we legally committed to. You cannot go back to a company and say "well at first you were talking about doing x, y and z, and even though we only have a contract for z, why didn't you deliver x and y?".
Also do not drag Joshy in this. He was my employee and I had direct responsibility for his actions.
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(stream cheating) because it is a major issue in the thread, I would like to clarify and confess that it was my fault that YYJ's ticket was not immediately issued with Rossi's. I informed Dox and Gus and blew the whistle that "stream cheating" occurred. It was based on information i received in confidence from YYJ. My intention was to force a justified rematch that would of benefited mOOnglaDe and my sister. (when i get home i will post the screen shot from skype with the time stamp)
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On April 17 2013 12:34 SunDevil wrote:
If Gus could not have performed what he promised with what was given in the written and signed contract then he should not have signed it. End of story. Stop saying we didn't deliver what we promised. We delivered exactly what we legally committed to. You cannot go back to a company and say "well at first you were talking about doing x, y and z, and even though we only have a contract for z, why didn't you deliver x and y?".
Also do not drag Joshy in this. He was my employee and I had direct responsibility for his actions.
legally your obligations were only fulfilled once Gus signed the wavier freeing you from x,y,z.
that lets be honest that wavier was pressured by Amanda's perceived urgency to receive funds asap.
you didn't want to state that XYZ was offered and then withdrawn, and your statements about the event cover any of that up!
who contacted ign and pointed them to SC2SEA post, instead of verifying the information, your department decides to just cut all contact and switch off the stream.
lets talk about section 9.2 ! of the IGN contract signed.
legally at this point you guys are completely at fault.
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On April 17 2013 13:10 -CheekyDuck- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 12:34 SunDevil wrote:
If Gus could not have performed what he promised with what was given in the written and signed contract then he should not have signed it. End of story. Stop saying we didn't deliver what we promised. We delivered exactly what we legally committed to. You cannot go back to a company and say "well at first you were talking about doing x, y and z, and even though we only have a contract for z, why didn't you deliver x and y?".
Also do not drag Joshy in this. He was my employee and I had direct responsibility for his actions. legally your obligations were only fulfilled once Gus signed the wavier freeing you from x,y,z. that lets be honest that wavier was pressured by Amanda's perceived urgency to receive funds asap. you didn't want to state that XYZ was offered and then withdrawn, and your statements about the event cover any of that up! who contacted ign and pointed them to SC2SEA post, instead of verifying the information, your department decides to just cut all contact and switch off the stream. lets talk about section 9.2 ! of the IGN contract signed. legally at this point you guys are completely at fault.
That's all very well and good but PPSL didn't fulfill their contractual obligations.
Verbal contracts are worth the paper they're printed on.
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This thread is fucking stupid.
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On April 17 2013 13:10 -CheekyDuck- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 12:34 SunDevil wrote:
If Gus could not have performed what he promised with what was given in the written and signed contract then he should not have signed it. End of story. Stop saying we didn't deliver what we promised. We delivered exactly what we legally committed to. You cannot go back to a company and say "well at first you were talking about doing x, y and z, and even though we only have a contract for z, why didn't you deliver x and y?".
Also do not drag Joshy in this. He was my employee and I had direct responsibility for his actions. legally your obligations were only fulfilled once Gus signed the wavier freeing you from x,y,z. that lets be honest that wavier was pressured by Amanda's perceived urgency to receive funds asap. you didn't want to state that XYZ was offered and then withdrawn, and your statements about the event cover any of that up! who contacted ign and pointed them to SC2SEA post, instead of verifying the information, your department decides to just cut all contact and switch off the stream. lets talk about section 9.2 ! of the IGN contract signed. legally at this point you guys are completely at fault.
This is the only important part of what you just typed: "Legally your obligations were only fulfilled once Gus signed the wavier freeing you from x,y,z."
Sounds like our legal obligations were fulfilled as you just said.
Nobody is covering anything up. Your entire argument is relying on twisted facts and assumptions.
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If all legal obligations were fulfilled, I'm happy. Verbal contracts are broken on a daily basis in E-Sports (and every industry on the planet) and are worth nothing. It's why people ALWAYS tell you "get a signed contract". Whatever is on that paper is all that matters.
I am confused about the timing of all this, very interesting it was done after IPL folded and most employees would be barred from talking about it (being most of them now work for Blizzard and all), and records would be piecemeal at best.
Also I STILL can't help but feel this is Gus' way to try and get back in E-Sports.
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Cheeky, I don't mean to be rude, but it looks like you are just doing this to disprove Gus as a thief right?
But seriously, who here thinks he did steal PPSL/IPL money? I don't think anyone in their right mind would think that after the surge of emotion died down a month after PPSL event.
He was just a guy who royally screwed up, didn't budget well, made promises he couldn't keep, or basically made promises he shouldn't have in the first place (like promising players gear he wasn't even entitled to).
You have two of his partners for PPSL that posted here but nowhere did they state Gus stole money. He was stupid with the money but he did not steal it. So the "thief" tag is a non-issue. It wasn't there to begin with.
As for ticket prices, I think we all know it fluctuates. And when you do budget, you assume a low and high figure. Gus' (as per your post) apparently already knew he was out of budget for a ticket from AUS to MNL, yet he still let's YYJ cling on to hope that he maybe able to do something. You just don't do that. This makes the guy waiting on the other end royally pissed when you say no last minute after he you let him expect. If Dox was at fault for delaying the event which caused the ticket prices to skyrocket, then Gus should have been straight and ended it there.
Anyway, still waiting on your spreadsheet for how you even think Amanda stole money.
As for the stream cheating, I think you should just close the whole issue. That is too far off from where you can even make claims because you are not even a party to the event. You are relying on someone else's words with just chat logs. That is the job of the event organizer to ensure integrity of his event. If he found no malice, then that's that. To claim you have insider info with just chat logs is just wrong. Better just delete the whole thing as it is not relevant to PPSL second look anyway.
If your issue with is is the delay of the confrmation of the players to be sent, just leave i at that. Don't add more to it when you don't have concrete proof.
An I don't get the IPL issue with regards to sponsorship. Aren't sponsors going to give you a set amount of money/stuff which is formalized? So the email itself is non-binding. If Gus wanted to check IPL commitment, that is based off the formal agreement, not an email. We are talking about 20k usd here and are you seriously reliant on an email or chat log and not a formal agreement to establish commitments of who to whom? It was also understood that funding of the remaining 50% is after the PPSL event itself. So should IPL release money to Gus during the event because of his mismangement of the budget. He already knows before hand he only has X/2 from IPL. so that should have been budgeted properly. If he wanted to use X as the working budget, that would mean he/PPSL needs to pony up the cash of X/2 first since they can only receive X/2 amount from IPL only after. That is clear. I mean anyone with basic understanding of english can see that was also clear.
IPL is not expected the breach its payment terms based off of their agreement just because someone didn't budget properly. But the whole mess of Amanda popping up, quality of streams being not on par with what was promised (I expect this to also be a gauge of Gus' deliverables to IPL) would of course force a company like IPL to question WTF is happening over there.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TiEuLoi.png)
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