EPTPPSL - A Second Look - Page 10
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ermogh
United States82 Posts
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UHF
Australia58 Posts
On April 16 2013 11:18 -CheekyDuck- wrote: because the only price is on an email that amanda wrote. we have no idea what these tickets cost. She manually removed any information on the ticket Again, you're basing an accusation on lack on information. This is not evidence that she was altering ticket prices. On April 16 2013 11:18 -CheekyDuck- wrote: two invoice she sent on the same day, i just cropped to the bottom. when asked to expand the totals numbers change. Yup they changed by 6PHP (14 cents?), which might have been rounding. What's this supposed to prove? On April 16 2013 11:18 -CheekyDuck- wrote: the other tax charge XT could have been altered, but who knows. Again there is no evidence of this. On April 16 2013 11:18 -CheekyDuck- wrote: also you can see the total is 70317 PHP (documents Have been altered) Which documents have been altered? Where is the evidence? On April 16 2013 11:18 -CheekyDuck- wrote: This is the only official invoice sent to Gus. as you can see the fare information does not match the invoice total. and reflects the calculations of Amanda's number "fluffing" i do not know the extent of this "fluffing" altering taxes, i dunno, really? not a big deal. agency's can charge booking fees etc. but they have to be CLEARLY labeled. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT The fare total in the image below the tables is $984 USD. The taxes include 1620 PH, 108 AY, 26424 XT for a total of 28,152 PHP In the last image it shows a fare of 42,165, which is $984 USD. It shows taxes totally 28,152 PHP. The only different is the IPP Tax of 129 PHP ($3 USD). Are you being serious? the point is, she said she was going to jail. not true. dox said she was going to jail IGN said she was going to jail So now you're straight up lying. In the links you provided, i found the following quotes: Dox: "This is a message from Amanda who is possibly facing jail if this is not resolved imminently" IGN: "In addition it opens up the possibility that Amanda will be arrested or sued." | ||
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
But while it does suggest there were calculation errors, it still doesn't prove that Amanda gained a single cent from this. 1. The numbers could very well be system implemented (it automatically charges the 1620PHP tax which IF your research is correct shouldn't have been paid), meaning the travel agency might have gained from it rather than Amanda. We still are uncertain about Amanda's links to the travel agency. 2. What evidence do you have that Amanda manually removed the price information from the tickets? Again it could just be the standard format for THAT travel agency. While this doesn't prove Amanda's innocence, again, unless we link her directly to the travel agency, it doesn't prove her guilt either. Innocent until proven guilty. 3. As for fudging of other taxes, this still remains to be proven. 4. Gus (or his financial advisors) should have scrutinized the figures better. If like you said the Filipino airport tax is only chargeable to people if they've stayed there for 1 year, then he should have picked up on this a lot earlier. 5. Having lived in South East Asia for most of my life, I know that particularly for small businesses, it is common practice to use slightly altered figures, especially for casual business transactions like this, and not keep detailed records of particular fees (even if the fees are correct). This could just be an example of such a scenario. Again it is up to Gus to ensure that what he pays is correct. 6. If you have a really strong sense that she is cheating, you should just bring it to the Filipino police, and they may be able to uncover more information and evidence. Chances are they can't. While it's very likely that Amanda could have hypothetical sketched this plot out from Day 1, its equally likely that this could just be bad business practices from both the travel agency and Gus (for not asking questions about the fare earlier). | ||
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-CheekyDuck-
Australia398 Posts
On April 16 2013 07:15 UHF wrote: There is a difference between the email and the table - the email lists 19 people, the tables lists 20 (I think Carn is the odd one out). If you add up all the numbers, it works out fine (if not, please point it out in detail). The total of the receipts shown is 70466 + 60076 + 8400 + 26000 + 14000 = 178,942 PHP ($4176 USD), plus the Metrobank slip if you add that in ($4526 total). There are no other receipts shown as evidence to suggest she recieve anything more. (Again, please point it out if i missed it) Her original invoice was for $16,706 USD. You've posted receipts from Team AZK adding up to $4526 USD or just under 200,000 PHP. There is still approx. $12,000 unaccounted for, which is what Amanda claimed. She receieved a check for $12,000 from IGN. The total of everything on the receipts listed reflects the number that was originally invoiced. So to try clear a few things up, please point out - how you arrived at the total costs of $11.691.94 - where she received $17.539.83 from IGN - where she received 230,000 as per her receipts. I have been looking at this for a while, and it took me a while to understand what i was reading. but thankyou for taking the time to allow me to direct you to the information. i realized i doubled up on a receipt, so that is now fixed. how you arrived at the total costs of $11.691.94 because the invoices and information i am presenting is just hers, nothing is solid, and it is a mess to present inconsistencies in an inconsistent document. but on TL she quoted, that she needed to raise: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/l1VUnIC.png) so i got that figure from her own words, and using her own agency exchange rate. where she received $17.539.83 from IGN sorry i should say IGN and in total from AZK/PPSL and community. 230 000 php (wavier was later signed by Gus so IGN/IPL would pay Amanda directly) and the receipt she sent back to IGN as proof of payment (i know that she also go "gifts" but thats all i can prove she received) by adding up the invoice "she" sent and the receipts "she" issued to gus and the bank money transfer to AAA ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GsGTP4z.png) where she received 230,000 as per her receipts. sorry i posted the wrong this before, i hope this makes it more clear also in her invoice you can see the receipts notes* 215 000 + 15 000 = 230 000PHP exchange of 42.85 + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ThpLcSV.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JT4VFGg.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/crRkBF0.png) if there is anything else i can clear up please let me know EDIT: i also have a time stamped conversation of her knowing and accepting payment for the 15 000. the issue is she says gus only paid her, 200 000 then 215 000 but it was 230 000 thats why i'm all conspiracy theory, this girl has played us. | ||
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ETisME
12387 Posts
Even if op proves he isn't as bad as we think he is, but looking at how he handled the whole thing: disappearing without any statement, causing more uncertainty, scandal, rumors among the community, poor statement to explain things, a person like him is definitely not who we want or need for an event like this. He wasn't a scapegoat, he really had all the problems that weren't exposed until problems start arising. | ||
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Moka
Canada942 Posts
But Oh god, Am I fucking confused. | ||
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
The documents below do not prove that she receive any additional money. They are merely waivers, and we always look at the receipts to prove money was passed to her. The figures quoted in the docs below could very well be part of the $12,172.27 given to her by IGN. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TiEuLoi.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/O5LrBeM.png) As the bill was only for PHP715.8k. The excess of 31,000 PHP (751k-715k) equals ~$850, ~$350 of which is the unaccounted PHP15k that Gus paid her as downpayment and ~$500 of which was the excess IGN gave her with the ~$12.2k (12.2k-11.7k). Now, there is no clear proof that this unaccounted $850 was pocketed by Amanda. It could have been spent on things which you do not have any documents for, or even bank/foreign exchange charges. | ||
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-CheekyDuck-
Australia398 Posts
On April 16 2013 11:50 UHF wrote: Again, you're basing an accusation on lack on information. This is not evidence that she was altering ticket prices. Yup they changed by 6PHP (14 cents?), which might have been rounding. What's this supposed to prove? Again there is no evidence of this. Which documents have been altered? Where is the evidence? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT The fare total in the image below the tables is $984 USD. The taxes include 1620 PH, 108 AY, 26424 XT for a total of 28,152 PHP In the last image it shows a fare of 42,165, which is $984 USD. It shows taxes totally 28,152 PHP. The only different is the IPP Tax of 129 PHP ($3 USD). Are you being serious? So now you're straight up lying. In the links you provided, i found the following quotes: Dox: "This is a message from Amanda who is possibly facing jail if this is not resolved imminently" IGN: "In addition it opens up the possibility that Amanda will be arrested or sued." i posted an image of fare information on one document and then being removed in another? i also posted her email to IGN that she "will not face any jail" and IGN decided to have a "save" amanda event, on top of that even use the term jail to mislead people. please look again. there is a difference between a total of: 70317 and: 70466 if her invoices (not mine) statements and numbers don't have any integrity. she has been consistent with altering the numbers. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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-CheekyDuck-
Australia398 Posts
On April 16 2013 12:12 pdd wrote: Duck: You are double counting. Amanda received a confirmed amount of $12,172.27 from IGN + $5,367 (PHP230k) from Gus which equals the total of ~$17k or PHP751,546.15. She did not receive ~$17k from IGN + ~5k from Gus, at least not from the evidence you have provided. The documents below do not prove that she receive any additional money. They are merely waivers, and we always look at the receipts to prove money was passed to her. The figures quoted in the docs below could very well be part of the $12,172.27 given to her by IGN. + Show Spoiler + As the bill was only for PHP715.8k. The excess of 31,000 PHP (751k-715k) equals ~$850, ~$350 of which is the unaccounted PHP15k that Gus paid her as downpayment and ~$500 of which was the excess IGN gave her with the ~$12.2k (12.2k-11.7k). Now, there is no clear proof that this unaccounted $850 was pocketed by Amanda. It could have been spent on things which you do not have any documents for, or even bank/foreign exchange charges. Because of the emails from David Ting to Amanda, with the time and date stamp, 230 000php (from gus/azk that came from IPL funding) Amanda then received 7k from IPL with the wavier and apx $5172.27 from the community in donations (based on a hand written invoice) Look are you telling me a agency is going to give a man 12k line of credit, with no credit card, car, and a job that pays at the time 20k a year? with no contract. i can't believe people are seriously buying into this. and you can check the chat logs, she tells me this is "normal" | ||
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Apth
New Zealand5 Posts
You've clearly gone to a significant amount of effort to make a point you believe is important, which is admirable. If I could give you a couple of pieces of advice - You've confused people. You need to stop trying to refute individual counterpoints that people raise, it's turning this thread into an endless stream of screenshots and embedded quotes. Your evidence needs to be presented concisely, and with context. There's a reason the phrase "Too Long; Didn't Read" pops up so often. My suggestion would be to start from scratch, in a spreadsheet, and show people exactly where the discrepancies are. While your OP is incredibly thorough, it's very difficult to read. A good argument establishes a premise, and then uses that as a foundation to move on to the next premise - the sum of your premises support your conclusion. Again, while I'd rather spend my time thinking about how crappy my Platinum level PvZ is than investigate whoever the hell Amanda might be, I sincerely appreciate the fact you've taken the time to present an evidenced argument, and not just whined in the general direction of the community. ./2c | ||
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
Because of the emails from David Ting to Amanda, with the time and date stamp, 230 000php (from gus/azk that came from IPL funding) Amanda then received 7k from IPL with the wavier and apx $5172.27 from the community in donations (based on a hand written invoice) I think this might be my last post in this thread, as you are missing the points on a lot of our discussions. I'm going to talk in maths to make things simple. 230,000/42.85 = $5,367 (total amount paid by Gus) $5367k + 7,000 + $5,172 = $17,539 (total amount received by Amanda from IGN and Gus) 17,539 x 42.85 = P751,546 (same figure in PHP) P751,546 - 715,884 = P35,662 (amount unaccounted for) P35,662/42.85 = $832.25 (amount unaccounted for in PHP) From this $832.25, we have already identified that about $350 is from Gus's PHP15,000 payment and the rest is from IGN paying more than the $11,691.95, we calculated. Main point here being: While we can't account for the $832.25, we don't know if or how Amanda pocketed it. It could have been due to exchange rate fluctuations or she very likely could have used it to pay off some other expenses (ie: interests, bank fees), there are no further evidences. Also it's a stark contrast to the >$5000 you seemed to be implying Amanda profited in your OP Look are you telling me a agency is going to give a man 12k line of credit, with no credit card, car, and a job that pays at the time 20k a year? with no contract. i can't believe people are seriously buying into this. and you can check the chat logs, she tells me this is "normal" Well, I don't know for sure what the norm is in Philippines regarding these sorts of transactions, but I don't think you can make assumptions and turn them into accusations. Like I said, if you're dead intent on pursuing this, go to the Filipino cops/lawyers. If my hunch is correct, they will probably not be able to do much about it, as it might just well be the norm. Also, it's a two way thing. If Gus wanted to make absolutely sure that things would be done alright, he should have scrutinized Amanda better, everything from her travel agency to the fees. He could have gone to another travel agency, IF these prices Amanda quoted were inflated and the business practices of the agency was dodgy. I don't think Amanda would have minded, if he had valid reasons. After all they had a standard to live up to. | ||
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iMSundeR
Australia5 Posts
Also, screenshots of chatlogs you have received from Gus are not evidence at all. If he needed to edit anything, he would of. It's very easy. EDIT: You are being far too trusting in the words coming out of a slimy person from an area of the world that is notorious for not-so-truthful business practices. There are testimonies in this thread about the way business is conducted in this area of South-East Asia. Be careful not to be naive and trusting of someone who is so desperate to get sympathy. | ||
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Shortizz
Singapore129 Posts
On April 16 2013 10:51 UHF wrote: Why does it matter? She listed the numbers in both USD and in PHP in her email, and even provided the exchange rate. MULTIPLE people have stated this exchange rate was both correct and fair for the time period. This is a non-issue. Yes we can see the screenshots. MULTIPLE people (including myself) have the calculations and everything adds up pretty much 100%. If you'd like to specifically point out the number fluffing, it would greatly help move the conversation forward. So you're basing your accusation on the lack of information? Regardless of whether you think that the price of tickets were fudged, you have no evidence to support this. In fact the actual cost of flights (without tax) are very similar to the numbers Dox posted. Even without tax, the higher range Dox posted are so close to Amanda's number that it's hardly unbelievable. I'd like to you provide evidence on a few major points of your accusation. If you could post it in an easy to read & understandable format it would be greatly appreciated: 1. Point out exactly where the number fluffing occurred. Post the evidence to support this claim 2. Show exactly where Amanda made "a huge profit", and post the evidence that supports this claim. 3. Point out where she lied, and provide evidence of this. I was about to type a post but it seems i couldnt have said it better than UHF. There is actually nothing wrong with the receipts/conversion. The best case for you would be to say that Amanda's agency OVERCHARGED for the tickets. As for as the accounting goes, the receipts were paid to her company and thus she has no benefit from it. Unless theres some shady commission going on that we dont know about, the receipts actually seems fine lest the over the top pricin(Rossi's ticket). | ||
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iMSundeR
Australia5 Posts
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nakedsurfer
Canada500 Posts
So far what I've gathered in this thread is that; Cheekyduck is good friends with Gus from what I can tell from her posts. It's a very biased post with little actual hard evidence. The evidence that is shown is being questioned by many different users and in different ways in which the reply is very unclear and doesn't disprove their questioning. A lot of the math ends up actually working out to no lost money(or very little?) by different users. Definitely needs to be re-worked. Thing to consider is that having to pay more for a plane ticket is normal when using a travel company. I really wish I knew more about this whole situation as I find it very interesting. I also really and truely dislike that so many names have been mentioned or thrown around so carelessly. If this is mostly a case about lost money and someone being more "just", then the possibility of Rossi stream-cheating is completely irrelevant and should not be in this thread at all. I would completely cut it from here. There isn't enough evidence for it to become a thread of its own. When I read that part, it felt like you were just trying to tarnish a name. This might just end up being a case of "too little too late" kind of thing. I also really think it hurts Gus that he hasn't posted this or any of the information and it's someone else doing it. Seeing how I don't actually know about the situation, My opinion as of right now is that Gus fucked up one way or another. | ||
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UHF
Australia58 Posts
On April 16 2013 12:42 pdd wrote: I think this might be my last post in this thread, as you are missing the points on a lot of our discussions. I'm going to talk in maths to make things simple. 230,000/42.85 = $5,367 (total amount paid by Gus) $5367k + 7,000 + $5,172 = $17,539 (total amount received by Amanda from IGN and Gus) 17,539 x 42.85 = P751,546 (same figure in PHP) P751,546 - 715,884 = P35,662 (amount unaccounted for) P35,662/42.85 = $832.25 (amount unaccounted for in PHP) From this $832.25, we have already identified that about $350 is from Gus's PHP15,000 payment and the rest is from IGN paying more than the $11,691.95, we calculated. Main point here being: While we can't account for the $832.25, we don't know if or how Amanda pocketed it. It could have been due to exchange rate fluctuations or she very likely could have used it to pay off some other expenses (ie: interests, bank fees), there are no further evidences. Also it's a stark contrast to the >$5000 you seemed to be implying Amanda profited in your OP Basically what pdd said. Cheeky, you've made one big assumption here. You think Amanda was knowingly altering quotes/numbers/receipts etc so that she could slice some money off the top for herself. The problem is that ALL of her invoicing numbers add up. There is no evidence to suggest she altered documents, changed figures, or was tacking on a few extra dollars here and there. There is a minor discrepancy with what the original invoice total stated, and the end amount of money she supposedly received. It looks like this number is $832.25. We know by your admission the $350 she received from Gus was for interest fees. We don't know if there was additional costs, invoices that aren't listed, or other fees that would come along when dealing with over $16,000 of expenses. You are assuming that this money wasn't needed to pay for something that Amanda was out of pocket for. Do you really think it's more feasible that someone risked going $16,000 in debt to try and make a few hundred dollars at the end of the day? Do you think she planned for Gus to not front up the money, plan for IGN to step in and organise $7,000 and also plan for the community to try raise $5,000 to pay of the debt, all the while alleged altering receipts, invoices and providing incorrect figures to make a little bit of money? Lastly onto IGN/IPL/David Ting. We do NOT know the full extent of the deal that was struck between the two parties. We do know however that in an email the following numbers were listed: - $12,000 Support for travel expenses - $2,500 Venue penalty fee - $3,000 Talent fee for Tastosis However there is never a formal agreement struck, and it's said that is confirmed 'in spirit' Later on we discover that $6,000 (50%) was given up front as per contract requirements, along with the $2,500 venue fee. So Amanda went $17,000 in debt paying for everything but was paid off in part (still had $12,000 outstanding). Gus had no money of his own to pay Amanda as per their agreement. Stuff hit the fan because of Gus's inability to organise/manage things properly, which in term lead to IGN putting the rest of the funds on hold. They even mentioned they'd release the funds if Gus set things straight, but for all they know if they gave the money to Gus, he could do a runner. I mean, he had already gone MIA during the event when things went bad. At the end of the day, Gus did not have the organisational skills or the money to make this event work. He was in way too far over his head. If you still do not see that, then there really is no point to this thread. | ||
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FoxerGames
Australia120 Posts
On April 16 2013 13:47 nakedsurfer wrote: This might just end up being a case of "too little too late" kind of thing. I also really think it hurts Gus that he hasn't posted this or any of the information and it's someone else doing it. Seeing how I don't actually know about the situation, My opinion as of right now is that Gus fucked up one way or another. You're right and even with all these talks about financial calculation, it really is Gus that needs to answers for alot of things to clear things up. Why does he turn up late for his own organization? Why did he ignore phone calls of some people? Why didn't he pay for hotel debt and ran off hiding at the same time? etc.. the list goes on. Its pointless to shift blame onto someone else and leave questions unanswered because its just pointless.. Better yet, if you truly believe Gus is in the right and Amanda is a theif, why not just lawyer up and goto court and get this resolved where LAWYERS will present facts from each side and see who is right or wrong. | ||
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Shortizz
Singapore129 Posts
On April 16 2013 12:38 Apth wrote: Cheeky - You've clearly gone to a significant amount of effort to make a point you believe is important, which is admirable. If I could give you a couple of pieces of advice - You've confused people. You need to stop trying to refute individual counterpoints that people raise, it's turning this thread into an endless stream of screenshots and embedded quotes. Your evidence needs to be presented concisely, and with context. There's a reason the phrase "Too Long; Didn't Read" pops up so often. My suggestion would be to start from scratch, in a spreadsheet, and show people exactly where the discrepancies are. While your OP is incredibly thorough, it's very difficult to read. A good argument establishes a premise, and then uses that as a foundation to move on to the next premise - the sum of your premises support your conclusion. Again, while I'd rather spend my time thinking about how crappy my Platinum level PvZ is than investigate whoever the hell Amanda might be, I sincerely appreciate the fact you've taken the time to present an evidenced argument, and not just whined in the general direction of the community. ./2c Spreadsheet or a simple P/L Statement would definitely make it clearer. There might be some actual facts/evidence in the OP but the way it was presented made it very unconvincing. | ||
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viasacra89
United States134 Posts
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