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On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works.
No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead.
Even if all that was fake news (it's not, but let's just say 'what if'), can't you just admit that if the Democratic Party tried to at least *appear* less extremist, they would get back a lot of votes? If Clinton (and Sanders, had he won the primary) weren't threatening pro-life groups and making on-stage appearances with Planned Parenthood shills, so many Christian voters that traditionally lean towards the Democrats wouldn't have flocked to Trump. But no, the DNC has only doubled down on their abortion policies; keep Pelosi in power, keep their party planks the same, keep on egging Richards, keep on pretending that Kermit Gosnell never happened. It's really quite easy for the DNC, all they have to do is go back to saying "I think abortion should be legal but rare", stop threatening pro-life groups, stop proposing tax payer subsidies for PP; bam, they just won back millions of voters. But that's not going to happen, because the extremists are in control of the party and they legitimately think they're on the right side of history.
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Just so you know, there was never any selling of fetal body parts. It was donation with expenses for transporting the parts covered I believe.
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United States42691 Posts
On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Even if all that was fake news (it's not, but let's just say 'what if'), can't you just admit that if the Democratic Party tried to at least *appear* less extremist, they would get back a lot of votes? If Clinton (and Sanders, had he won) weren't threatening pro-life groups and making on-stage appearances with Planned Parenthood shills, so many Christian voters that traditionally lean towards the Democrats wouldn't have flocked to Trump. But no, the DNC has only doubled down on their abortion policies; keep Pelosi in power, keep their party planks the same, keep on egging Richards.
Dude, that's all fake news.
You're thinking of the graph with the unlabelled axes which is a joke that would be hilarious if it wasn't presented as actual evidence of anything beyond the basic illiteracy of the American public.
+ Show Spoiler +
That graph doesn't mean what you think it means. The two lines are on completely different scales. What you are looking at is two different graphs which have been superimposed to imply a thing that would evidently not be true had they not purposefully left out the axes which would show it not to be true.
The selling fetal body parts is literally untrue. The video that story was based on was edited, and when I mean edited, I mean he literally changed what they said. The editing was described as
creative to the point of dishonesty
- California Attorney General Jerry Brown
It is true that Planned Parenthood provides stem cells to medical research centers, rather than just tossing them in the trash or using them for low cost dog food or whatever the hell pro-life people would rather they do with them. I'm 110% in favour of that because I'm on team "cure diseases" over team "waste vitally important stem cells that could be used to cure diseases". But they don't sell them. They get reimbursed for expenses. There's a hugely important distinction there. You can be opposed to abortion if you want but there is absolutely no case to be made that after an abortion has already happened we should refuse to derive life saving scientific research from the stem cells.
The sex traffickers story, that's the edited O'Keefe video again. Didn't actually happen. It's literally untrue.
I get that you're outraged. I know it must be hard for you. Really, I do. You see all these terrible stories and you think "that's awful, how can that be allowed". But I need you to try and understand that just because you're outraged doesn't make it true. There are people out there who profit from making you as outraged as possible and they do not always act with integrity. In this case they acted with a deliberate attempt to mislead you. I'm sorry this happened to you and it sucks that we live in a world where they prey on people like you. But these things you're outraged by, they didn't actually happen.
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On February 10 2017 01:36 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 01:30 biology]major wrote:On February 10 2017 01:26 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:On February 10 2017 01:24 biology]major wrote:On February 10 2017 01:17 Sermokala wrote:On February 10 2017 01:11 biology]major wrote:On February 10 2017 01:03 brian wrote:On February 10 2017 00:53 biology]major wrote:
Glad to see someone who is pro-life on this board, the modern democratic platform is very extreme regarding this topic and alienates a lot of people who lean on the side of pro-life and would prefer abortions (imo after first trimester)not be used unless the most dire circumstances (rape, medical consequence to mom or fetus). to clarify, is your opinion that in the first trimester abortion be legal regardless of the motivation? is that not precisely the democrats opinion on the matter? The problem is with planned parenthood, a politically charged organization that has radical views on abortion rights. As long as the democratic party aligns itself with PP, their view doesn't matter, because PP is responsible for half the abortions that occur. It's the slippery slope argument, I am absolutely against abortion after the first trimester, but that doesn't mean an abortion at 10 weeks is easily justified either. A fetus at 12 weeks has ears, eyes, a nose, mouth, fingers, heart, and developing organs and nervous system. Also the law that prevents PP from not using federal funds (probably half a billion dollars) to not fund their abortions is also suspsect. How are we supposed to account for that? GH: The republicans are so backwards and wrong on this issue because they are blinded by religion. You can have access to contraceptives, sex education, maybe even federal support for cheap/free birth control and adoption services, but still restrict abortion. You don't see the hipocracy of horse trading on when you feel its appropriate to take away a womans ability to have an abortion? The woman chose to get pregnant (outside of extreme scenarios), there is a responsibility element here. A baby didn't just instantly pop into her belly out of thin air due to random chance that she is now forced to carry. In that hypothetical situation I would say autonomy over your own body >= right to life by fetus. Buuuut its 2017, and there are plenty of contraceptive options, education with simple internet click and so on. If you are so poor that you can't afford any of this, then it's on you to avoid a pregnancy that you don't want. If that is too high of a expectation of people, so be it. Think about what you just said... Sorry I meant chose to accept the risk of getting pregnant. Same thing in my mind. Out of curiousity, given the hypothetical small chance for a simultaneous failure of multiple contraceptive methods, would you still argue that a woman who uses a condom, a birth control pill and the withdrawal method has chosen to accept a risk of getting pregnant and therefore must accept the consequences of her action if all three fail? Is it possible for a woman to have heterosexual sex without, in your opinion, implicitly accepting the risk and therefore the consequences?
Ofcourse if a woman used contraceptives properly and still got pregnant she should be allowed to have an abortion (early term), but there's no way to tell. I guess my previous statement was idealistic, and that's why early term abortions should be allowed because contraceptives aren't perfect. However I will argue that contraceptives are damn good, and a situation of failure, I would consider a extreme situation. It's just that there isn't any way to verify so practically a moot point. That's all I have to say on this topic :-)
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On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead.
Are you trying to troll us with this crap? It's common knowledge that literally none of that is true, so either you're absurdly misinformed, or you're not taking this seriously.
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On February 10 2017 01:53 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Even if all that was fake news (it's not, but let's just say 'what if'), can't you just admit that if the Democratic Party tried to at least *appear* less extremist, they would get back a lot of votes? If Clinton (and Sanders, had he won) weren't threatening pro-life groups and making on-stage appearances with Planned Parenthood shills, so many Christian voters that traditionally lean towards the Democrats wouldn't have flocked to Trump. But no, the DNC has only doubled down on their abortion policies; keep Pelosi in power, keep their party planks the same, keep on egging Richards. Dude, that's all fake news. You're thinking of the graph with the unlabelled axes which is a joke that would be hilarious if it wasn't presented as actual evidence of anything beyond the basic illiteracy of the American public. + Show Spoiler +That graph doesn't mean what you think it means. The two lines are on completely different scales. What you are looking at is two different graphs which have been superimposed to imply a thing that would evidently not be true had they not purposefully left out the axes which would show it not to be true. The selling fetal body parts is literally untrue. The video that story was based on was edited, and when I mean edited, I mean he literally changed what they said. The editing was described as Show nested quote +creative to the point of dishonesty
- California Attorney General Jerry Brown It is true that Planned Parenthood provides stem cells to medical research centers, rather than just tossing them in the trash or using them for low cost dog food or whatever the hell pro-life people would rather they do with them. I'm 110% in favour of that because I'm on team "cure diseases" over team "waste vitally important stem cells that could be used to cure diseases". But they don't sell them. They get reimbursed for expenses. There's a hugely important distinction there. You can be opposed to abortion if you want but there is absolutely no case to be made that after an abortion has already happened we should refuse to derive life saving scientific research from the stem cells. The sex traffickers story, that's the edited O'Keefe video again. Didn't actually happen. It's literally untrue. I get that you're outraged. I know it must be hard for you. Really, I do. You see all these terrible stories and you think "that's awful, how can that be allowed". But I need you to try and understand that just because you're outraged doesn't make it true. There are people out there who profit from making you as outraged as possible and they do not always act with integrity. In this case they acted with a deliberate attempt to mislead you. I'm sorry this happened to you and it sucks that we live in a world where they prey on people like you. But these things you're outraged by, they didn't actually happen.
I wish I lived in your world, where anything that conflicted with my worldview can just be shaken off by saying "eh it didn't happen." Clearly neither of us are going to convince the other.
So let's just assume for a moment that the things you call "fake news" are indeed fake news. Can you not at least concede that the Democratic party has lost lots of voters because they *appear* extremist on the subject of abortion, and they do nothing at all to refute that notions? Nobody (at least not a statistically significant amount of people) is going to not vote Democrat because they think the DNC isn't pro-choice enough, but lots of people have jumped ship because they are too pro-abortion.
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On February 10 2017 01:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Are you trying to troll us with this crap? It's common knowledge that literally none of that is true, so either you're absurdly misinformed, or you're not taking this seriously.
The power of Facebook news
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On February 10 2017 01:58 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 01:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Are you trying to troll us with this crap? It's common knowledge that literally none of that is true, so either you're absurdly misinformed, or you're not taking this seriously. The power of Facebook news
I read the Guardian, NYT, Washington Post, BBC, and the Intercept every day. I've seen the attempted refutations against the allegations of Planned Parenthood, none of them checked out in the end.
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On February 10 2017 01:57 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 01:53 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Even if all that was fake news (it's not, but let's just say 'what if'), can't you just admit that if the Democratic Party tried to at least *appear* less extremist, they would get back a lot of votes? If Clinton (and Sanders, had he won) weren't threatening pro-life groups and making on-stage appearances with Planned Parenthood shills, so many Christian voters that traditionally lean towards the Democrats wouldn't have flocked to Trump. But no, the DNC has only doubled down on their abortion policies; keep Pelosi in power, keep their party planks the same, keep on egging Richards. Dude, that's all fake news. You're thinking of the graph with the unlabelled axes which is a joke that would be hilarious if it wasn't presented as actual evidence of anything beyond the basic illiteracy of the American public. + Show Spoiler +That graph doesn't mean what you think it means. The two lines are on completely different scales. What you are looking at is two different graphs which have been superimposed to imply a thing that would evidently not be true had they not purposefully left out the axes which would show it not to be true. The selling fetal body parts is literally untrue. The video that story was based on was edited, and when I mean edited, I mean he literally changed what they said. The editing was described as creative to the point of dishonesty
- California Attorney General Jerry Brown It is true that Planned Parenthood provides stem cells to medical research centers, rather than just tossing them in the trash or using them for low cost dog food or whatever the hell pro-life people would rather they do with them. I'm 110% in favour of that because I'm on team "cure diseases" over team "waste vitally important stem cells that could be used to cure diseases". But they don't sell them. They get reimbursed for expenses. There's a hugely important distinction there. You can be opposed to abortion if you want but there is absolutely no case to be made that after an abortion has already happened we should refuse to derive life saving scientific research from the stem cells. The sex traffickers story, that's the edited O'Keefe video again. Didn't actually happen. It's literally untrue. I get that you're outraged. I know it must be hard for you. Really, I do. You see all these terrible stories and you think "that's awful, how can that be allowed". But I need you to try and understand that just because you're outraged doesn't make it true. There are people out there who profit from making you as outraged as possible and they do not always act with integrity. In this case they acted with a deliberate attempt to mislead you. I'm sorry this happened to you and it sucks that we live in a world where they prey on people like you. But these things you're outraged by, they didn't actually happen. I wish I lived in your world, where anything that conflicted with my worldview can just be shaken off by saying "eh it didn't happen." Clearly neither of us are going to convince the other. So let's just assume for a moment that the things you call "fake news" are indeed fake news. Can you not at least concede that the Democratic party has lost lots of voters because they *appear* extremist on the subject of abortion, and they do nothing at all to refute that notions? Nobody (at least not a statistically significant amount of people) is going to not vote Democrat because they think the DNC isn't pro-choice enough, but lots of people have jumped ship because they are too pro-abortion.
The only people who are extremist on the subject of abortions and politically relevant are the super-conservative super-religious people who still don't even consider rape or pregnancy complications as justifications for abortion. Fortunately, even some of the Republican establishment has conceded that there do exist such hypothetical cases and that the conversation isn't really so black and white as to say "No abortions, 100%, no matter what, fuck you women."
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On February 10 2017 01:57 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 01:53 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Even if all that was fake news (it's not, but let's just say 'what if'), can't you just admit that if the Democratic Party tried to at least *appear* less extremist, they would get back a lot of votes? If Clinton (and Sanders, had he won) weren't threatening pro-life groups and making on-stage appearances with Planned Parenthood shills, so many Christian voters that traditionally lean towards the Democrats wouldn't have flocked to Trump. But no, the DNC has only doubled down on their abortion policies; keep Pelosi in power, keep their party planks the same, keep on egging Richards. Dude, that's all fake news. You're thinking of the graph with the unlabelled axes which is a joke that would be hilarious if it wasn't presented as actual evidence of anything beyond the basic illiteracy of the American public. + Show Spoiler +That graph doesn't mean what you think it means. The two lines are on completely different scales. What you are looking at is two different graphs which have been superimposed to imply a thing that would evidently not be true had they not purposefully left out the axes which would show it not to be true. The selling fetal body parts is literally untrue. The video that story was based on was edited, and when I mean edited, I mean he literally changed what they said. The editing was described as creative to the point of dishonesty
- California Attorney General Jerry Brown It is true that Planned Parenthood provides stem cells to medical research centers, rather than just tossing them in the trash or using them for low cost dog food or whatever the hell pro-life people would rather they do with them. I'm 110% in favour of that because I'm on team "cure diseases" over team "waste vitally important stem cells that could be used to cure diseases". But they don't sell them. They get reimbursed for expenses. There's a hugely important distinction there. You can be opposed to abortion if you want but there is absolutely no case to be made that after an abortion has already happened we should refuse to derive life saving scientific research from the stem cells. The sex traffickers story, that's the edited O'Keefe video again. Didn't actually happen. It's literally untrue. I get that you're outraged. I know it must be hard for you. Really, I do. You see all these terrible stories and you think "that's awful, how can that be allowed". But I need you to try and understand that just because you're outraged doesn't make it true. There are people out there who profit from making you as outraged as possible and they do not always act with integrity. In this case they acted with a deliberate attempt to mislead you. I'm sorry this happened to you and it sucks that we live in a world where they prey on people like you. But these things you're outraged by, they didn't actually happen. I wish I lived in your world, where anything that conflicted with my worldview can just be shaken off by saying "eh it didn't happen." Clearly neither of us are going to convince the other. So let's just assume for a moment that the things you call "fake news" are indeed fake news. Can you not at least concede that the Democratic party has lost lots of voters because they *appear* extremist on the subject of abortion, and they do nothing at all to refute that notions? Nobody (at least not a statistically significant amount of people) is going to not vote Democrat because they think the DNC isn't pro-choice enough, but lots of people have jumped ship because they are too pro-abortion.
What exactly is the Democratic party supposed to do? They refuted all the fake news. That you choose not to believe it is not something they can do much about. Now you're attacking them for being too pro-abortion based on that same fake news. Well, it's fake. You're being lied to. Based on those lies, you are choosing to ditch the Democratic party.
I guess it is now completely clear why O'Keefe and his buddies get away with making these videos... they're political goldmines.
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On February 10 2017 02:01 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 01:58 Mohdoo wrote:On February 10 2017 01:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Are you trying to troll us with this crap? It's common knowledge that literally none of that is true, so either you're absurdly misinformed, or you're not taking this seriously. The power of Facebook news I read the Guardian, NYT, Washington Post, BBC, and the Intercept every day. I've seen the attempted refutations against the allegations of Planned Parenthood, none of them checked out in the end.
You're saying nothing disproved a negative? Which of the websites you listed has indicated PP works with human traffickers?
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We're not talking about Republicans, I already conceded that I did not vote for Trump, and the GOP are not really pro-life. We're talking about Democrats. I hate Trump, but I could not find it in me to vote for Clinton because she is in fact an extremist on abortion.
Do you think the Democrats have lost or gained votes by becoming more and more extremist on the subject of abortion? Just answer me that. Do you think Sanders and Clinton threatening pro-life groups with government persecution has won them more votes than it lost them?
On February 10 2017 02:04 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 01:57 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 01:53 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Even if all that was fake news (it's not, but let's just say 'what if'), can't you just admit that if the Democratic Party tried to at least *appear* less extremist, they would get back a lot of votes? If Clinton (and Sanders, had he won) weren't threatening pro-life groups and making on-stage appearances with Planned Parenthood shills, so many Christian voters that traditionally lean towards the Democrats wouldn't have flocked to Trump. But no, the DNC has only doubled down on their abortion policies; keep Pelosi in power, keep their party planks the same, keep on egging Richards. Dude, that's all fake news. You're thinking of the graph with the unlabelled axes which is a joke that would be hilarious if it wasn't presented as actual evidence of anything beyond the basic illiteracy of the American public. + Show Spoiler +That graph doesn't mean what you think it means. The two lines are on completely different scales. What you are looking at is two different graphs which have been superimposed to imply a thing that would evidently not be true had they not purposefully left out the axes which would show it not to be true. The selling fetal body parts is literally untrue. The video that story was based on was edited, and when I mean edited, I mean he literally changed what they said. The editing was described as creative to the point of dishonesty
- California Attorney General Jerry Brown It is true that Planned Parenthood provides stem cells to medical research centers, rather than just tossing them in the trash or using them for low cost dog food or whatever the hell pro-life people would rather they do with them. I'm 110% in favour of that because I'm on team "cure diseases" over team "waste vitally important stem cells that could be used to cure diseases". But they don't sell them. They get reimbursed for expenses. There's a hugely important distinction there. You can be opposed to abortion if you want but there is absolutely no case to be made that after an abortion has already happened we should refuse to derive life saving scientific research from the stem cells. The sex traffickers story, that's the edited O'Keefe video again. Didn't actually happen. It's literally untrue. I get that you're outraged. I know it must be hard for you. Really, I do. You see all these terrible stories and you think "that's awful, how can that be allowed". But I need you to try and understand that just because you're outraged doesn't make it true. There are people out there who profit from making you as outraged as possible and they do not always act with integrity. In this case they acted with a deliberate attempt to mislead you. I'm sorry this happened to you and it sucks that we live in a world where they prey on people like you. But these things you're outraged by, they didn't actually happen. I wish I lived in your world, where anything that conflicted with my worldview can just be shaken off by saying "eh it didn't happen." Clearly neither of us are going to convince the other. So let's just assume for a moment that the things you call "fake news" are indeed fake news. Can you not at least concede that the Democratic party has lost lots of voters because they *appear* extremist on the subject of abortion, and they do nothing at all to refute that notions? Nobody (at least not a statistically significant amount of people) is going to not vote Democrat because they think the DNC isn't pro-choice enough, but lots of people have jumped ship because they are too pro-abortion. What exactly is the Democratic party supposed to do? They refuted all the fake news. That you choose not to believe it is not something they can do much about. Now you're attacking them for being too pro-abortion based on that same fake news. Well, it's fake. You're being lied to. Based on those lies, you are choosing to ditch the Democratic party. I guess it is now completely clear why O'Keefe and his buddies get away with making these videos... they're political goldmines.
I already said what they could do. They could move back from "abortion on demand and without apology" to "legal but rare". They could stop publicly appearing and endorsing Planned Parenthood. They could stop threatening pro-life groups.
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On February 10 2017 02:01 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 01:58 Mohdoo wrote:On February 10 2017 01:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Are you trying to troll us with this crap? It's common knowledge that literally none of that is true, so either you're absurdly misinformed, or you're not taking this seriously. The power of Facebook news I read the Guardian, NYT, Washington Post, BBC, and the Intercept every day. I've seen the attempted refutations against the allegations of Planned Parenthood, none of them checked out in the end.
Alright, can you provide evidence supporting any of the allegations you raised, then?
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United States42691 Posts
On February 10 2017 01:57 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 01:53 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Even if all that was fake news (it's not, but let's just say 'what if'), can't you just admit that if the Democratic Party tried to at least *appear* less extremist, they would get back a lot of votes? If Clinton (and Sanders, had he won) weren't threatening pro-life groups and making on-stage appearances with Planned Parenthood shills, so many Christian voters that traditionally lean towards the Democrats wouldn't have flocked to Trump. But no, the DNC has only doubled down on their abortion policies; keep Pelosi in power, keep their party planks the same, keep on egging Richards. Dude, that's all fake news. You're thinking of the graph with the unlabelled axes which is a joke that would be hilarious if it wasn't presented as actual evidence of anything beyond the basic illiteracy of the American public. + Show Spoiler +That graph doesn't mean what you think it means. The two lines are on completely different scales. What you are looking at is two different graphs which have been superimposed to imply a thing that would evidently not be true had they not purposefully left out the axes which would show it not to be true. The selling fetal body parts is literally untrue. The video that story was based on was edited, and when I mean edited, I mean he literally changed what they said. The editing was described as creative to the point of dishonesty
- California Attorney General Jerry Brown It is true that Planned Parenthood provides stem cells to medical research centers, rather than just tossing them in the trash or using them for low cost dog food or whatever the hell pro-life people would rather they do with them. I'm 110% in favour of that because I'm on team "cure diseases" over team "waste vitally important stem cells that could be used to cure diseases". But they don't sell them. They get reimbursed for expenses. There's a hugely important distinction there. You can be opposed to abortion if you want but there is absolutely no case to be made that after an abortion has already happened we should refuse to derive life saving scientific research from the stem cells. The sex traffickers story, that's the edited O'Keefe video again. Didn't actually happen. It's literally untrue. I get that you're outraged. I know it must be hard for you. Really, I do. You see all these terrible stories and you think "that's awful, how can that be allowed". But I need you to try and understand that just because you're outraged doesn't make it true. There are people out there who profit from making you as outraged as possible and they do not always act with integrity. In this case they acted with a deliberate attempt to mislead you. I'm sorry this happened to you and it sucks that we live in a world where they prey on people like you. But these things you're outraged by, they didn't actually happen. I wish I lived in your world, where anything that conflicted with my worldview can just be shaken off by saying "eh it didn't happen." Clearly neither of us are going to convince the other. So let's just assume for a moment that the things you call "fake news" are indeed fake news. Can you not at least concede that the Democratic party has lost lots of voters because they *appear* extremist on the subject of abortion, and they do nothing at all to refute that notions? Nobody (at least not a statistically significant amount of people) is going to not vote Democrat because they think the DNC isn't pro-choice enough, but lots of people have jumped ship because they are too pro-abortion.
It's not about world views.
Look, with the O'Keefe videos there are two versions. The edited version that he put on youtube. That's the one you read a sensationalized post about on Facebook. Then, after the investigation began, he was forced to release his raw unedited footage. It showed that he literally changed what was said. The whole scene with him as a pimp showing Planned Parenthood helping him brutalize his prostitute? Planned Parenthood called the cops on him. He had to pay a $100,000 settlement on that one after he was found guilty in a court. It was literally proven to be untrue.
I know that a lot of people throw around the words "Fake News" lightly to refer to anything they disagree with. It's problematic, because it makes it hard for people to know what is actually fake news.
But please, consider this. If the O'Keefe video was legit, why did he lose in court once they saw the unedited ones?
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On February 10 2017 02:01 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 01:58 Mohdoo wrote:On February 10 2017 01:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Are you trying to troll us with this crap? It's common knowledge that literally none of that is true, so either you're absurdly misinformed, or you're not taking this seriously. The power of Facebook news I read the Guardian, NYT, Washington Post, BBC, and the Intercept every day. I've seen the attempted refutations against the allegations of Planned Parenthood, none of them checked out in the end.
Please post the most convincing article about the allegations against PP that you read. We can go point by point, insofar as Kwark didn't already above.
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United States42691 Posts
On February 10 2017 02:04 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 02:01 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 01:58 Mohdoo wrote:On February 10 2017 01:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Are you trying to troll us with this crap? It's common knowledge that literally none of that is true, so either you're absurdly misinformed, or you're not taking this seriously. The power of Facebook news I read the Guardian, NYT, Washington Post, BBC, and the Intercept every day. I've seen the attempted refutations against the allegations of Planned Parenthood, none of them checked out in the end. You're saying nothing disproved a negative? Which of the websites you listed has indicated PP works with human traffickers?
The human trafficker story is a part of the O'Keefe video. He had his friend pretend to be a prostitute and they went to PP to try and get an abortion. PP called the cops on them. O'Keefe edited the video to change the exchange dramatically and put it on youtube. He was fined $100,000 by the courts for that stunt.
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On February 10 2017 02:01 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 01:58 Mohdoo wrote:On February 10 2017 01:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Are you trying to troll us with this crap? It's common knowledge that literally none of that is true, so either you're absurdly misinformed, or you're not taking this seriously. The power of Facebook news I read the Guardian, NYT, Washington Post, BBC, and the Intercept every day. I've seen the attempted refutations against the allegations of Planned Parenthood, none of them checked out in the end.
You say you read the New York Times, and yet you also think that Democrats are being extreme in their positions on abortion... even though their position is exactly what the vast majority of the general public agrees with... as explained by the New York Times:
The American National Election Studies (A.N.E.S.) charts public opinion using a random sample of adult Americans every election year. In 2012, the A.N.E.S. asked a typical abortion question: “There has been some discussion about abortion during recent years. Which one of the opinions on this page best agrees with your view?”
The choices were: (1) By law, abortion should never be permitted; (2) The law should permit abortion only in case of rape, incest, or when the woman’s life is in danger; (3) The law should permit abortion for reasons other than rape, incest or danger to the woman’s life but only after the need for the abortion has been clearly established; and (4) by law, a woman should always be able to obtain an abortion as a matter of personal choice.
The data showed that very few Americans, roughly 12 percent, believed abortion should never be legal under any circumstance. One in five Republicans placed themselves in the “never legal” camp, while only 1 in 13 Democrats said this, but on average, few people believed in a total ban.
On the opposite side, nearly 60 percent of Democrats and 30 percent of Republicans said abortion should always be legal. There is more support in both parties and among independents for legal abortion in all cases than there is for a total ban. But this is also where we see the biggest partisan gulf among the four outcomes — a 30-point difference between Democrats and Republicans.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/06/upshot/candidates-disagree-on-abortion-but-public-is-in-surprising-harmony.html
And obviously, there are countless other polls and sources that say the same thing.
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Clinton is pretty consistently pro abortion. It has been like her only consistent stance ever. The democratic party as a whole isn't, though. And PP provably prevents far more than it causes.
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Washington (CNN)From Moscow to Monrovia, there's a new guessing game: What's going on with US foreign policy?
And is there anyone at the State Department to call to find out?
With the new president signaling significant changes in the US approach to the world, key job openings at the oldest US Cabinet agency remain unfilled, leaving some of the State Department's day-to-day business frozen and foreign capitals unsure whom to reach out to for clarity on new directions the US may take.
"Our people are trying to understand who is dealing with what," said one source within Russia's Foreign Ministry who spoke to CNN on condition of anonymity. "Half of the top management of the State Department has gone."
While all presidential transitions have their rough patches, they seldom come with uncertainty about US positions on long-stable pacts such as NATO, usually staid partnerships such as the US-Mexico alliance or the possibility of the 180-degree shift President Donald Trump seems to be contemplating on US-Russia ties or his executive order banning travelers from seven countries.
The policy murkiness is compounded by the fact that the administration didn't seem ready to immediately take on the duties of running the State Department, several diplomats and State staffers said.
The White House didn't respond to requests for comment.
The result, said one European diplomat, is that "the system doesn't work. The President is in the White House, but the rest of the system doesn't work."
The diplomat said that the Pentagon remained a stable source of continuity. But a National Security Council reorganization has meant many foreign envoys' points of contact in the White House are also suddenly gone. While there are usually changes in NSC staffing under a new administration, Trump's broader reorganization had made it even harder for diplomats to maintain continuity or connection because roles and functions are being shuffled.
That has left diplomats in Washington frozen in wait-and-see mode amid a flurry of mixed messages from President Donald Trump and his Cabinet appointees -- ones many foreign countries are unsettled by.
Trump has derided NATO, while his agency heads have praised it. He's hailed Russia as a potential new partner and dismissed the EU as a failure, while Cabinet members have taken the exact opposite tack. He's blasted Mexico while his new secretary of state tries to build the relationship.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com/politifact/photos/mega-center-release-graphic.jpg)
