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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On February 10 2017 01:58 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 01:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Are you trying to troll us with this crap? It's common knowledge that literally none of that is true, so either you're absurdly misinformed, or you're not taking this seriously. The power of Facebook news
It's utterly ridiculous, and falling for that anti-PP scam reminds me of the people who fall for the "Vaccines cause autism" fake paper.
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United States43251 Posts
On February 10 2017 02:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 01:58 Mohdoo wrote:On February 10 2017 01:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Are you trying to troll us with this crap? It's common knowledge that literally none of that is true, so either you're absurdly misinformed, or you're not taking this seriously. The power of Facebook news It's utterly ridiculous, and falling for that anti-PP scam reminds me of the people who fall for the "Vaccines cause autism" fake paper.
The worst part is that once he reads Facebook news that confirms his pre-existing belief it actually ceases to matter whether it actually happened or not. Alternative facts are no joke. This country is in serious trouble.
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Note that it is hard to articulate a coherent stance on abortion when your debate opponent babbles about how babies are aborted by being ripped out of their mother's wombs at 9 months, which is demonstrably false. Or perhaps just C-sections.
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On February 10 2017 02:04 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 02:01 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 01:58 Mohdoo wrote:On February 10 2017 01:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Are you trying to troll us with this crap? It's common knowledge that literally none of that is true, so either you're absurdly misinformed, or you're not taking this seriously. The power of Facebook news I read the Guardian, NYT, Washington Post, BBC, and the Intercept every day. I've seen the attempted refutations against the allegations of Planned Parenthood, none of them checked out in the end. Alright, can you provide evidence supporting any of the allegations you raised, then?
Okay here you go: https://energycommerce.house.gov/sites/republicans.energycommerce.house.gov/files/114/Analysis/20161230Select_Panel_Final_Report.pdf
Check out document pg. xxv (it's 27 in the PDF). Warning, 50 MB file.
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On February 10 2017 02:11 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 02:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 10 2017 01:58 Mohdoo wrote:On February 10 2017 01:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Are you trying to troll us with this crap? It's common knowledge that literally none of that is true, so either you're absurdly misinformed, or you're not taking this seriously. The power of Facebook news It's utterly ridiculous, and falling for that anti-PP scam reminds me of the people who fall for the "Vaccines cause autism" fake paper. The worst part is that once he reads Facebook news that confirms his pre-existing belief it actually ceases to matter whether it actually happened or not. Alternative facts are no joke. This country is in serious trouble.
I agree, and these people aren't the kind to happily educate themselves on what confirmation bias means. How do you educate people who refuse to be educated; what possible evidence or logic could you present to convince someone who values neither?
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The fact that we're having this discussion about O'Keefe's doctored videos again is deeply depressing.
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On February 10 2017 01:41 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Just so you know, there was never any selling of fetal body parts. It was donation with expenses for transporting the parts covered I believe.
Any transport of organic material used in medical practices carries a transfer charge that the receiver covers. It doesn't matter if its stem cells, blood, lungs, heart or a cadaver. It is a standard fixed cost based on what is being transported. That is what the bullshit claims of PP selling body parts are based on.
On February 10 2017 02:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 02:11 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 02:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 10 2017 01:58 Mohdoo wrote:On February 10 2017 01:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Are you trying to troll us with this crap? It's common knowledge that literally none of that is true, so either you're absurdly misinformed, or you're not taking this seriously. The power of Facebook news It's utterly ridiculous, and falling for that anti-PP scam reminds me of the people who fall for the "Vaccines cause autism" fake paper. The worst part is that once he reads Facebook news that confirms his pre-existing belief it actually ceases to matter whether it actually happened or not. Alternative facts are no joke. This country is in serious trouble. I agree, and these people aren't the kind to happily educate themselves on what confirmation bias means. How do you educate people who refuse to be educated; what possible evidence or logic could you present to convince someone who values neither?
You don't give the misinformation a massive platform that reaches into everyone's home with little peer review. Also the auto formatting that google and facebook created makes any website look similar to major news sites. There are a lot of tiny things that platforms could do that would make it easier to tell the bullshit from real reporting.
http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/6/13850230/fake-news-sites-google-search-facebook-instant-articles
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On February 10 2017 02:06 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 02:04 Mohdoo wrote:On February 10 2017 02:01 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 01:58 Mohdoo wrote:On February 10 2017 01:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Are you trying to troll us with this crap? It's common knowledge that literally none of that is true, so either you're absurdly misinformed, or you're not taking this seriously. The power of Facebook news I read the Guardian, NYT, Washington Post, BBC, and the Intercept every day. I've seen the attempted refutations against the allegations of Planned Parenthood, none of them checked out in the end. You're saying nothing disproved a negative? Which of the websites you listed has indicated PP works with human traffickers? The human trafficker story is a part of the O'Keefe video. He had his friend pretend to be a prostitute and they went to PP to try and get an abortion. PP called the cops on them. O'Keefe edited the video to change the exchange dramatically and put it on youtube. He was fined $100,000 by the courts for that stunt.
On February 10 2017 02:13 TheYango wrote:
The fact that we're having this discussion about O'Keefe's doctored videos again is deeply depressing.
I have no idea who this O'Keefe person is, the videos I'm familiar with was leaked by David Daleiden. Whether or not they were doctored is irrelevant at this point because PP were found to be criminally liable in the investigation afterward.
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On February 10 2017 02:11 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 02:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 10 2017 01:58 Mohdoo wrote:On February 10 2017 01:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Are you trying to troll us with this crap? It's common knowledge that literally none of that is true, so either you're absurdly misinformed, or you're not taking this seriously. The power of Facebook news It's utterly ridiculous, and falling for that anti-PP scam reminds me of the people who fall for the "Vaccines cause autism" fake paper. The worst part is that once he reads Facebook news that confirms his pre-existing belief it actually ceases to matter whether it actually happened or not. Alternative facts are no joke. This country is in serious trouble.
Maybe I'm just an armchair psychologist, but I truly think seeing fake news stories like the O'Keefe stuff posted by some page with a million subscribers, where the article itself has like 2K comments and 20K "reactions", really makes people think it is likely real. Its kinda like it has withstood peer review in some demented world.
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On February 10 2017 02:13 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 02:04 kwizach wrote:On February 10 2017 02:01 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 01:58 Mohdoo wrote:On February 10 2017 01:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Are you trying to troll us with this crap? It's common knowledge that literally none of that is true, so either you're absurdly misinformed, or you're not taking this seriously. The power of Facebook news I read the Guardian, NYT, Washington Post, BBC, and the Intercept every day. I've seen the attempted refutations against the allegations of Planned Parenthood, none of them checked out in the end. Alright, can you provide evidence supporting any of the allegations you raised, then? Okay here you go: https://energycommerce.house.gov/sites/republicans.energycommerce.house.gov/files/114/Analysis/20161230Select_Panel_Final_Report.pdfCheck out document pg. xxv (it's 27 in the PDF). Warning, 50 MB file.
That page says:
Legislative history demonstrates that states should have the power to exclude providers
for any reason/basis under its state laws: “This provision is not intended to preclude a State from
establishing, under State law, any other bases for excluding individuals or entities from its
Medicaid program.”100 Also, the First Circuit held that the language of Medicaid’s exclusion
provision “was intended to permit a state to exclude an entity from its Medicaid program for any
reason established by state law.”101
b) Title X
Title X is the only federal grant program dedicated solely to providing family planning
and related preventive care and is viewed as setting the standard for publicly funded family
planning services. Priority is given to low-income families. Title X provides that “none of the
funds appropriated … shall be used in programs where abortion is a method of family
planning.”102 Public and private entities may obtain grants.
Ten percent of U.S. public expenditures for family planning client services are through
Title X.103 This is a 71% drop since 1980. Title X funding is valued because it provides more
flexibility than Medicaid. The grants are used to maintain a network of “family planning
Centers.” The Reagan administration’s strict regulations on Title X funding, designed to ensure
the funds were not being used to subsidize abortion, were upheld by the Supreme Court in Rust
v. Sullivan; 104 however, they are not in effect today.
Since 2011, numerous states have enacted laws requiring subrecipients of Title X funds
to provide comprehensive healthcare to patients and/or refrain from performing abortions. In
response, the federal government is actively circumventing the Title X prioritization laws in at
least eight states by directly contracting with private entities such as Planned Parenthood.
Further, on Sept. 9, 2016, HHS issued a proposed rule stating that “[n]o recipient making
sub awards for the provision of services as part of its Title X project may prohibit an entity from
participating for reasons unrelated to its ability to provide services effectively.”105 In the
proposed rule background, HHS states that “13 states have placed restrictions on or eliminated
sub awards with specific types of providers. . . .”106
So... what's wrong with it? Nothing there about PP eating dead babies or whatever.
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Looks like you weren't on the same page I was. Pg. 27 in the PDF, first line is "prosecutors also suggested that accounting and bank records would be critical to"
File name is "20161230Select_Panel_Final_Report.pdf".
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On February 10 2017 02:08 Nevuk wrote:
Clinton is pretty consistently pro abortion. It has been like her only consistent stance ever. The democratic party as a whole isn't, though. And PP provably prevents far more than it causes.
Et tu?
There is no such thing as pro-abortion. Absolutely nobody is pro-abortion. Nobody thinks having an abortion is a good thing. Lots of people think being able to have an abortion is a good thing. Clinton is indeed very firmly in that camp.
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On February 10 2017 02:18 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 02:08 Nevuk wrote:
Clinton is pretty consistently pro abortion. It has been like her only consistent stance ever. The democratic party as a whole isn't, though. And PP provably prevents far more than it causes. Et tu? There is no such thing as pro-abortion. Absolutely nobody is pro-abortion. Nobody thinks having an abortion is a good thing. Lots of people think being able to have an abortion is a good thing. Clinton is indeed very firmly in that camp.
Are you really sure "absolutely nobody" is right?
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United States43251 Posts
On February 10 2017 02:13 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 02:04 kwizach wrote:On February 10 2017 02:01 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 01:58 Mohdoo wrote:On February 10 2017 01:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 10 2017 01:39 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 00:55 KwarK wrote:On February 10 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote:
KwawK, I've already admitted that I've never voted Republican, so don't say I was "duped". I agree that Republican policies are not pro-life; I am throwing my support behind a third party that actually is.
What I was saying is that the extremist pro-abortion policies of the Democratic party means that I cannot in conscience vote for them right now. Maybe I could if they reverted back to their "rare but legal" platform, but they have practically made Cecile Richards their policy chair, so that's not going to happen. If the Democratic Party are really pro-abortion, why are they pushing contraception, increased welfare for children, sex education and family planning? These are all things which have been proven to reduce abortion, which again is at historically low levels. This fantasy that the Democratic Party have teamed up with Planned Parenthood to fuel an orgy of pizza parties built on abortion is just that, a fantasy. Your sources, the fake news article and Richards saying people need to talk about why they needed Planned Parenthood, don't prove your fantasy. The Democratic Party is your only hope for reducing the number of abortions that happen. Third parties have no power and Republicans work tirelessly to increase unwanted pregnancies. Democrats have a long proven track record of drastically reducing the number of abortions in their states through sex education, access to contraception and by supporting women who make the choice to keep the fetus. And if you're reading Washington Times articles and deciding based upon those that you simply cannot vote Democrat you've been duped by the Republicans. That's how it works. No, you're just wrong. Planned Parenthood's spent the last decade phasing out actual health care in order to increase funding for abortion and advertising their abortion facilities. There's a reason why everybody hates them. They get caught selling fetal body parts, the DNC just comes out and denies it ever happened. They get caught aiding sex traffickers by giving abortions to underage prostitutes, so instead of instructing their staff on how to catch sex traffickers, they instruct their staff on how to detect undercover journalists instead. Are you trying to troll us with this crap? It's common knowledge that literally none of that is true, so either you're absurdly misinformed, or you're not taking this seriously. The power of Facebook news I read the Guardian, NYT, Washington Post, BBC, and the Intercept every day. I've seen the attempted refutations against the allegations of Planned Parenthood, none of them checked out in the end. Alright, can you provide evidence supporting any of the allegations you raised, then? Okay here you go: https://energycommerce.house.gov/sites/republicans.energycommerce.house.gov/files/114/Analysis/20161230Select_Panel_Final_Report.pdfCheck out document pg. xxv (it's 27 in the PDF). Warning, 50 MB file.
Chapter IV. The Criminal Referrals
The Select Investigative Panel has made numerous criminal and regulatory referrals and
investigations are underway around the nation.
1) The Panel learned that StemExpress and certain abortion clinics may have violated the HIPAA
privacy rights of vulnerable women for the sole purpose of increasing the harvesting of fetal
tissue to make money. Referred to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
2) The Panel uncovered evidence showing that StemExpress may have violated federal
regulations governing Institutional Review Boards (IRBs). Referred to the U.S. Department of
Health and Human Services.
3) The Panel discovered that the University of New Mexico may have been violating its state’s
Anatomical Gift Act by receiving tissue from a late-term abortion clinic (Southwestern Women’s
Options). Referred to the Attorney General of New Mexico.
4 & 5) The Panel conducted a forensic accounting analysis of StemExpress’ limited production
and determined that it may have been profiting from the sale of baby body parts. Referral sent to
El Dorado, California District Attorney, and the U.S. Department of Justice.
6) The Panel discovered that an abortion clinic in Arkansas may have violated the law when it
sent tissue to StemExpress. Referred to the Attorney General of Arkansas.
7) The Panel discovered that DV Biologics, another tissue procurement company, may have been
profiting from the sale of fetal tissue, and was not collecting California sales tax from purchasers
of the baby body parts. The Orange County District Attorney has filed a lawsuit and the Panel
sent a supplemental referral.
8) The Panel learned that Advanced Bioscience Resources appeared to have made a profit when
it sold tissue to various universities. Referred to the District Attorney for Riverside County,
California.
9) The Panel discovered that an abortion clinic in Florida, at least in part through its relationship
with StemExpress, may have violated various provisions of federal and state law by profiting
from the sale of fetal tissue. Referred to the Attorney General of Florida.
xxvi
10) The Panel learned that Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast may have violated both Texas law
and U.S. law when it sold fetal tissue to the University of Texas. Referred to the Texas Attorney
General.
11 & 12) The Panel has uncovered evidence from former employees and a patient of a late-term
abortionist in Texas alleging numerous violations of federal and state law at one or more of the
practitioner’s clinics. The allegations include eyewitness accounts of the doctor killing infants
who show signs of life both when partially outside the birth canal, in violation of the PartialBirth
Abortion Ban Act, and after they are completely outside the birth canal, in violation of the
Born-Alive Infants Protection Act and Texas murder statutes. Referred to the Texas Attorney
General, and the U.S. Department of Justice.
13) The Panel has discovered information that StemExpress may have destroyed documents that
were the subject of congressional inquiries, document request letters, and subpoenas, in violation
of 18 U.S.C. § 1519. Referred to the U.S. Department of Justice.
14) The Panel made a supplemental referral to the Attorney General of New Mexico based on
information produced in document productions by the University of New Mexico (UNM) and
Southwestern Women’s Options (SWWO), deposition testimony by Doctor #5, and a complaint
and affidavit with supporting documents submitted by a former patient at SWWO. It details the
alleged failure of SWWO and UNM to provide informed consent to women prior to using tissue
from abortions for research at the university.
15) Over the course of its investigation, the Panel has uncovered documents and received
testimony from confidential informants indicating that several entities, including four Planned
Parenthood clinics and Novogenix, may have violated federal law, specifically Title 42 U.S.C. §
289g-2, which forbids the transfer of fetal tissue for valuable consideration. Referred to the U.S.
Department of Justice.
Which of those do you think proves your fake news stories?
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On February 10 2017 02:19 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 02:18 Acrofales wrote:On February 10 2017 02:08 Nevuk wrote:
Clinton is pretty consistently pro abortion. It has been like her only consistent stance ever. The democratic party as a whole isn't, though. And PP provably prevents far more than it causes. Et tu? There is no such thing as pro-abortion. Absolutely nobody is pro-abortion. Nobody thinks having an abortion is a good thing. Lots of people think being able to have an abortion is a good thing. Clinton is indeed very firmly in that camp. Are you really sure "absolutely nobody" is right?
How could it be wrong? No one is advocating women get knocked up just to have the baby removed.
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On February 10 2017 02:17 LightSpectra wrote:
Looks like you weren't on the same page I was. Pg. 27 in the PDF, first line is "prosecutors also suggested that accounting and bank records would be critical to"
File name is "20161230Select_Panel_Final_Report.pdf".
I searched for that quote and ended up on page "xxv", where the entire statement is "Two former U.S. attorneys and a senior federal litigator agreed that based on the materials presented to them, they would open a case against a TPB. The former prosecutors also suggested that accounting and bank records would be critical to understanding whether there was a violation of federal law. Minority witnesses agreed with this approach and urged the panel to obtain such records."
What does that have to do with anything? That's a bullet point under Panel Hearings with no context at all.
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The document has to say "may" because it has no power to make an indictment. Those are referrals to criminal courts based off of their investigation, i.e. that means they found conclusive evidence that felonious actions were done.
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United States43251 Posts
On February 10 2017 02:21 LightSpectra wrote:
The document has to say "may" because it has no power to make an indictment. Those are referrals to criminal courts based off of their investigation, i.e. that means they found conclusive evidence that felonious actions were done.
Okay, and what did the courts find?
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On February 10 2017 02:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 02:19 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 02:18 Acrofales wrote:On February 10 2017 02:08 Nevuk wrote:
Clinton is pretty consistently pro abortion. It has been like her only consistent stance ever. The democratic party as a whole isn't, though. And PP provably prevents far more than it causes. Et tu? There is no such thing as pro-abortion. Absolutely nobody is pro-abortion. Nobody thinks having an abortion is a good thing. Lots of people think being able to have an abortion is a good thing. Clinton is indeed very firmly in that camp. Are you really sure "absolutely nobody" is right? How could it be wrong? No one is advocating women get knocked up just to have the baby removed.
Psh speak for yourself! I think we should start making abortion mandatory!
+ Show Spoiler +
But yeah, pro-choice people aren't going around insisting that women get abortions... that's literally the opposite of choice lol.
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On February 10 2017 02:22 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 02:21 LightSpectra wrote:
The document has to say "may" because it has no power to make an indictment. Those are referrals to criminal courts based off of their investigation, i.e. that means they found conclusive evidence that felonious actions were done. Okay, and what did the courts find?
All of those things you just listed.
On February 10 2017 02:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2017 02:20 Plansix wrote:On February 10 2017 02:19 LightSpectra wrote:On February 10 2017 02:18 Acrofales wrote:On February 10 2017 02:08 Nevuk wrote:
Clinton is pretty consistently pro abortion. It has been like her only consistent stance ever. The democratic party as a whole isn't, though. And PP provably prevents far more than it causes. Et tu? There is no such thing as pro-abortion. Absolutely nobody is pro-abortion. Nobody thinks having an abortion is a good thing. Lots of people think being able to have an abortion is a good thing. Clinton is indeed very firmly in that camp. Are you really sure "absolutely nobody" is right? How could it be wrong? No one is advocating women get knocked up just to have the baby removed. Psh speak for yourself! I think we should start making abortion mandatory! + Show Spoiler + But yeah, pro-choice people aren't going around insisting that women get abortions... that's literally the opposite of choice lol.
You joke like it could never happen, but the Democrats (and Republicans as well, to be fair) have a long history of supporting forced abortions in China.
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EPT
