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On October 01 2016 00:15 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:46 Stratos_speAr wrote:On September 30 2016 23:43 farvacola wrote:On September 30 2016 23:40 Mohdoo wrote:On September 30 2016 23:35 Stratos_speAr wrote:
And xDaunt kept trying to tell us all summer about how Trump was actually a mastermind and was playing the Left like a fiddle this entire election... I think for a lot of people, the idea that someone who really is just a crazy, insecure loudmouthed shithead winning their primary is a really big deal. It really can't be rectified in their mindset that there aren't legitimate problems with the party. The idea that Trump is a mastermind was the only way the existing view of the party could be somewhat intact. I mean, it's a pretty devastating thing. People identify pretty strongly with their party. For certain communities, loyalty to the republican party is also often a family/community thing. People raised to be proud republicans, being told they are the heart of the country and all that stuff, may have a hard time coming to realize things are not nearly as they appeared. It forces someone to either significantly lower their view of their elder family members and community, or find another way to see the grass as green. My law school graduating class this year is full to the brim with Republicans who are very honest about how devastating Trump's nomination is to their sense of politics. Thus far, it seems like Introvert is the only poster on here who matches up with that perspective, though I may be forgetting some. LegalLord, although he's not that much of a conservative; more a contrarian, if I had to put a label to it. I spend more time discussing the underrepresented parts of what I think about this race because there are already plenty of people willing to talk about it when Trump is buttfucking awful and when Hillary isn't, but few talking about the reverse. I usually don't have much to add to 20 Hillary fanboys singing her praise because they cover it well enough. I'm left of center, "on average." Definitely not a Republican given the current state of the party.
Call it the effect of a cynical voter base, but Hillary's worst points are purely political issues that are well within expectations. Most people are going to hear those scandals and think "oh, look, a politician being a politician".
If Trump wasn't the opposition, I imagine this would be a standard boring election cycle with two candidates slinging the generic political mud at each other and barely anything sticking.
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On October 01 2016 00:25 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 00:22 JinDesu wrote:
If I were to guess, Biden, Obama, and Warren are likely pulling up the Dem's by association, while there is no one really to pull up the GOP by association. Don't forget Cory Booker, dude is gonna play an integral role in the future of the Democratic Party.
I feel like I'm the only person 0% convinced by Booker. I can see the temptation in trying to fabricate another Obama, but no.
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On October 01 2016 00:26 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
xDaunt and Danglars want to spin this one? I hear Conway is asking for a raise.
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On October 01 2016 00:28 ticklishmusic wrote:xDaunt and Danglars want to spin this one? I hear Conway is asking for a raise.
Check the date
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On October 01 2016 00:26 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 00:25 farvacola wrote:On October 01 2016 00:22 JinDesu wrote:
If I were to guess, Biden, Obama, and Warren are likely pulling up the Dem's by association, while there is no one really to pull up the GOP by association. Don't forget Cory Booker, dude is gonna play an integral role in the future of the Democratic Party. I feel like I'm the only person 0% convinced by Booker. I can see the temptation in trying to fabricate another Obama, but no.
no, i agree. he wants to be obama so bad and you could see the naked ambition in his eyes during his DNC speech.
i'll give him a chance, but he's gotta deliver while he's in the senate or no thanks.
On October 01 2016 00:29 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 00:28 ticklishmusic wrote:xDaunt and Danglars want to spin this one? I hear Conway is asking for a raise. Check the date
hey if trump is gonna dredge up stuff from decades ago, i really dont give a shit.
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On October 01 2016 00:21 LegalLord wrote:
Kaine is somewhat poorly liked on average. I agree with that interpretation but I'm surprised by it. I really thought people were going to just buy into the most favorable interpretation of him that the Dem party could dream up, just because he isn't well-known.
What would be a less favorable interpretation of him? I'm curious what could drag him lower than Mike "Condoms are too liberal and smoking doesn't kill" Pence
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On October 01 2016 00:28 ticklishmusic wrote:xDaunt and Danglars want to spin this one? I hear Conway is asking for a raise.
I believe the standard Democrat answer on such topics will suffice: "Who are we to judge whom Trump fucks in the privacy of his own bedroom?"
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On October 01 2016 00:26 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 00:25 farvacola wrote:On October 01 2016 00:22 JinDesu wrote:
If I were to guess, Biden, Obama, and Warren are likely pulling up the Dem's by association, while there is no one really to pull up the GOP by association. Don't forget Cory Booker, dude is gonna play an integral role in the future of the Democratic Party. I feel like I'm the only person 0% convinced by Booker. I can see the temptation in trying to fabricate another Obama, but no.
I mean, I don't personally agree with a lot of what Booker stands for, but as a figurehead, he's exactly the sort of accessible, relatively internet-suave politician that the Democratic Party needs to cultivate.
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On October 01 2016 00:26 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 00:25 farvacola wrote:On October 01 2016 00:22 JinDesu wrote:
If I were to guess, Biden, Obama, and Warren are likely pulling up the Dem's by association, while there is no one really to pull up the GOP by association. Don't forget Cory Booker, dude is gonna play an integral role in the future of the Democratic Party. I feel like I'm the only person 0% convinced by Booker. I can see the temptation in trying to fabricate another Obama, but no.
I wasn't convinced by him either but I didn't say anything because it's pointless to speak ill of the irrelevant.
He might just be another Julian Castro - DNC speaker who gets some cred for what he said, that the DNC continues to try to push, but who just isn't impressive enough for me to care. Obama really, really impressed in 04 - Booker really didn't.
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On October 01 2016 00:30 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 00:21 LegalLord wrote:
Kaine is somewhat poorly liked on average. I agree with that interpretation but I'm surprised by it. I really thought people were going to just buy into the most favorable interpretation of him that the Dem party could dream up, just because he isn't well-known. What would be a less favorable interpretation of him? I'm curious what could drag him lower than Mike "Condoms are too liberal and smoking doesn't kill" Pence
For all intents and purposes he is a carbon copy of the type of politician that Hillary is: an opportunist who flip-flops based on political expedience while being nominally socially progressive enough to draw attention away from the fact that he is pretty vacuous as a candidate.
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On October 01 2016 00:26 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 00:15 LegalLord wrote:On September 30 2016 23:46 Stratos_speAr wrote:On September 30 2016 23:43 farvacola wrote:On September 30 2016 23:40 Mohdoo wrote:On September 30 2016 23:35 Stratos_speAr wrote:
And xDaunt kept trying to tell us all summer about how Trump was actually a mastermind and was playing the Left like a fiddle this entire election... I think for a lot of people, the idea that someone who really is just a crazy, insecure loudmouthed shithead winning their primary is a really big deal. It really can't be rectified in their mindset that there aren't legitimate problems with the party. The idea that Trump is a mastermind was the only way the existing view of the party could be somewhat intact. I mean, it's a pretty devastating thing. People identify pretty strongly with their party. For certain communities, loyalty to the republican party is also often a family/community thing. People raised to be proud republicans, being told they are the heart of the country and all that stuff, may have a hard time coming to realize things are not nearly as they appeared. It forces someone to either significantly lower their view of their elder family members and community, or find another way to see the grass as green. My law school graduating class this year is full to the brim with Republicans who are very honest about how devastating Trump's nomination is to their sense of politics. Thus far, it seems like Introvert is the only poster on here who matches up with that perspective, though I may be forgetting some. LegalLord, although he's not that much of a conservative; more a contrarian, if I had to put a label to it. I spend more time discussing the underrepresented parts of what I think about this race because there are already plenty of people willing to talk about it when Trump is buttfucking awful and when Hillary isn't, but few talking about the reverse. I usually don't have much to add to 20 Hillary fanboys singing her praise because they cover it well enough. I'm left of center, "on average." Definitely not a Republican given the current state of the party. Call it the effect of a cynical voter base, but Hillary's worst points are purely political issues that are well within expectations. Most people are going to hear those scandals and think "oh, look, a politician being a politician". If Trump wasn't the opposition, I imagine this would be a standard boring election cycle with two candidates slinging the generic political mud at each other and barely anything sticking.
That said, it wouldn't take much of a "mainstream politician" to bury Hillary. Just someone who isn't blatantly incompetent on important issues of policy, such as Bernie "no FP experience except voting against Iraq" Sanders, and Donald "wtf is a nuclear triad i dont even" Trump.
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On October 01 2016 00:34 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 00:30 Dan HH wrote:On October 01 2016 00:21 LegalLord wrote:
Kaine is somewhat poorly liked on average. I agree with that interpretation but I'm surprised by it. I really thought people were going to just buy into the most favorable interpretation of him that the Dem party could dream up, just because he isn't well-known. What would be a less favorable interpretation of him? I'm curious what could drag him lower than Mike "Condoms are too liberal and smoking doesn't kill" Pence For all intents and purposes he is a carbon copy of the type of politician that Hillary is: an opportunist who flip-flops based on political expedience while being nominally socially progressive enough to draw attention away from the fact that he is pretty vacuous as a candidate.
I would agree with that assessment, but it doesn't clear up my confusion about the American public preferring all-out nuttery over 'meh'
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This is a pretty impressive response. Also, twitter needs more than 151 chars. Edit*Sorry, 140chars.
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On October 01 2016 00:32 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 00:26 Mohdoo wrote:On October 01 2016 00:25 farvacola wrote:On October 01 2016 00:22 JinDesu wrote:
If I were to guess, Biden, Obama, and Warren are likely pulling up the Dem's by association, while there is no one really to pull up the GOP by association. Don't forget Cory Booker, dude is gonna play an integral role in the future of the Democratic Party. I feel like I'm the only person 0% convinced by Booker. I can see the temptation in trying to fabricate another Obama, but no. I wasn't convinced by him either but I didn't say anything because it's pointless to speak ill of the irrelevant. He might just be another Julian Castro - DNC speaker who gets some cred for what he said, that the DNC continues to try to push, but who just isn't impressive enough for me to care. Obama really, really impressed in 04 - Booker really didn't.
Julian Castro is exactly what I am thinking here. Just another empty, shitty attempt to fabricate another Obama. Its also hard not to make a " -_- " face when looking at the demographics I feel like they are trying to target. Obama is something truly special. Maybe my standards have been lifted unreasonably high.
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On September 30 2016 23:57 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:52 Danglars wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 30 2016 23:23 farvacola wrote:
In Danglars' reality, no one made fun of Dukakis and McGovern like they did Falwell and Robertson. Interesting. I do enjoy the full history, thank you. Now, are you ready to unironically use "cartoon villain," "literally delusional," "actual threat to world civilization," "type of person that would vote for Lex Luthor as president?" It appears you want to understand historical tomfoolery, but the modern one is totally germane political discourse. On September 30 2016 23:21 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:20 ticklishmusic wrote:On September 30 2016 23:17 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 13:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. Constantly amazes me how entrenched the party lines are in the US. You basically have a cartoon villain running for President. I think you guys should've stuck to the "literally Hitler" schtick. On September 30 2016 16:08 Grumbels wrote:On September 30 2016 11:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 11:46 biology]major wrote:
I find this fbi email scandal case fascinating. I really wonder if I would have gotten the same consequence as HRC if I did the same things she did. If I set up a private email server and had 2-3 classified documents out of thousands, basically told the FBI "I didn't know!!", was found to lie about it to the public. Oh and if my employee had made a reddit post asking for how to delete emails from my server and then tried to delete his posts after his username was found out.
Anyone honestly think comey would add in an intent element to the statute for me or you or anyone else? Lost a lot of faith in the FBI. Probably? You'd also have to be someone with access to classified documents in the first place. I imagine there's this bizarre fetishization of classified information, like the public imagines that a breach of that will get you shipped to a secret prison and you'll never see the light of day again. Reality is probably that tons of classified documents get mishandled, in small amounts, basically every day. Also, the reddit post wasn't about deleting emails, it was removing names and email addresses. One specific person's. Which the FBI either knew who it was (if it was Hillary), or could get easily by asking the dumb IT guy. The US gov routinely classifies virtually everything, often stuff that you can read in the newspapers but which the government is not yet ready to admit will be classified information. No surprise people inside the government don't take it seriously. Something like a million citizens have fairly wide access to classified information anyway, these things are all open secrets. Of course there are some stricter labels like top secret that to reveal carry real implications. On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. I think for my long term health I should really stop visiting this thread. Trump is evil, like someone else said, he is a cartoon villain. How literally delusional do you have to be to consider voting for him? He is an actual threat to world civilization. I bet you are exactly the type of person that would vote for Lex Luthor as president. Thanks for the laugh. I'm literally delusional to even consider voting for him. An actual threat to world civilization. Now put a Bible in your right hand and state that this election is between the forces of darkness and the forces of light. It used to be common fare to make fun of the religious right's figures, but now it's crossed over to the American left. And yes, between the two, Trump is the far better choice for America, however upset I am that those are final two choices. you still feel that way after the tweetstorm? Why would that change his opinion, Trump's done 1000x worse than those tweets before and people didn't abandon ship Compared to the rest of this thread, what you're doing is brilliant political analysis. On September 30 2016 23:21 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:17 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 13:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. Constantly amazes me how entrenched the party lines are in the US. You basically have a cartoon villain running for President. I think you guys should've stuck to the "literally Hitler" schtick. On September 30 2016 16:08 Grumbels wrote:On September 30 2016 11:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 11:46 biology]major wrote:
I find this fbi email scandal case fascinating. I really wonder if I would have gotten the same consequence as HRC if I did the same things she did. If I set up a private email server and had 2-3 classified documents out of thousands, basically told the FBI "I didn't know!!", was found to lie about it to the public. Oh and if my employee had made a reddit post asking for how to delete emails from my server and then tried to delete his posts after his username was found out.
Anyone honestly think comey would add in an intent element to the statute for me or you or anyone else? Lost a lot of faith in the FBI. Probably? You'd also have to be someone with access to classified documents in the first place. I imagine there's this bizarre fetishization of classified information, like the public imagines that a breach of that will get you shipped to a secret prison and you'll never see the light of day again. Reality is probably that tons of classified documents get mishandled, in small amounts, basically every day. Also, the reddit post wasn't about deleting emails, it was removing names and email addresses. One specific person's. Which the FBI either knew who it was (if it was Hillary), or could get easily by asking the dumb IT guy. The US gov routinely classifies virtually everything, often stuff that you can read in the newspapers but which the government is not yet ready to admit will be classified information. No surprise people inside the government don't take it seriously. Something like a million citizens have fairly wide access to classified information anyway, these things are all open secrets. Of course there are some stricter labels like top secret that to reveal carry real implications. On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. I think for my long term health I should really stop visiting this thread. Trump is evil, like someone else said, he is a cartoon villain. How literally delusional do you have to be to consider voting for him? He is an actual threat to world civilization. I bet you are exactly the type of person that would vote for Lex Luthor as president. Thanks for the laugh. I'm literally delusional to even consider voting for him. An actual threat to world civilization. Now put a Bible in your right hand and state that this election is between the forces of darkness and the forces of light. It used to be common fare to make fun of the religious right's figures, but now it's crossed over to the American left. And yes, between the two, Trump is the far better choice for America, however upset I am that those are final two choices. Remind you of anyone? http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/books/hitler-ascent-volker-ullrich.html Are you on some bet to go between Hitler and comic book villain in alternating posts? On September 30 2016 23:43 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:40 Mohdoo wrote:On September 30 2016 23:35 Stratos_speAr wrote:
And xDaunt kept trying to tell us all summer about how Trump was actually a mastermind and was playing the Left like a fiddle this entire election... I think for a lot of people, the idea that someone who really is just a crazy, insecure loudmouthed shithead winning their primary is a really big deal. It really can't be rectified in their mindset that there aren't legitimate problems with the party. The idea that Trump is a mastermind was the only way the existing view of the party could be somewhat intact. I mean, it's a pretty devastating thing. People identify pretty strongly with their party. For certain communities, loyalty to the republican party is also often a family/community thing. People raised to be proud republicans, being told they are the heart of the country and all that stuff, may have a hard time coming to realize things are not nearly as they appeared. It forces someone to either significantly lower their view of their elder family members and community, or find another way to see the grass as green. My law school graduating class this year is full to the brim with Republicans who are very honest about how devastating Trump's nomination is to their sense of politics. Thus far, it seems like Introvert is the only poster on here who matches up with that perspective, though I may be forgetting some. In a sane world, there would be plenty of legitimate attacks on Trump's candidacy (such as those tweets like that late in the night) to devote enough time to arguing the future of the Republican party with respect to populist trade and entitlement programs. But today's American left will have to settle for thinking his critique directed at him is not devastating enough to meet their notice. "Today's left" is not alone as it ponders Trump's candidacy, and therein lies the error in your focus on the left/right dichotomy. I appreciate that you're able to toe the party line while many, Democrats and Republicans alike, assert that said line has practically disappeared via Trump's ascendency, but it is a mistake to assume that Democratic criticisms of Trump come at the expense of self-reflection. There are many Democrats, even those of the establishment variety, that are finally coming to terms with just how flimsy Clinton's candidacy has been, and being able to identify those parts of Trump's campaign (namely almost all of them) that are abjectly detestable doesn't really get in the way of that.
So, as means of setting the record straight to show you can properly self reflect, consider the question I asked from your first post I responded to. You claim I live in an alternative reality that doesn't critique men you cite, would you please enlighten me to whether or not you would make fun of the example I cited. If everybody refuses to comment on its modern incarnations, I can only assume you support the modern Falwells instead of the past.
On October 01 2016 00:15 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:52 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 23:23 farvacola wrote:
In Danglars' reality, no one made fun of Dukakis and McGovern like they did Falwell and Robertson. Interesting. I do enjoy the full history, thank you. Now, are you ready to unironically use "cartoon villain," "literally delusional," "actual threat to world civilization," "type of person that would vote for Lex Luthor as president?" It appears you want to understand historical tomfoolery, but the modern one is totally germane political discourse. On September 30 2016 23:21 Dan HH wrote:On September 30 2016 23:20 ticklishmusic wrote:On September 30 2016 23:17 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 13:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. Constantly amazes me how entrenched the party lines are in the US. You basically have a cartoon villain running for President. I think you guys should've stuck to the "literally Hitler" schtick. On September 30 2016 16:08 Grumbels wrote:On September 30 2016 11:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 11:46 biology]major wrote:
I find this fbi email scandal case fascinating. I really wonder if I would have gotten the same consequence as HRC if I did the same things she did. If I set up a private email server and had 2-3 classified documents out of thousands, basically told the FBI "I didn't know!!", was found to lie about it to the public. Oh and if my employee had made a reddit post asking for how to delete emails from my server and then tried to delete his posts after his username was found out.
Anyone honestly think comey would add in an intent element to the statute for me or you or anyone else? Lost a lot of faith in the FBI. Probably? You'd also have to be someone with access to classified documents in the first place. I imagine there's this bizarre fetishization of classified information, like the public imagines that a breach of that will get you shipped to a secret prison and you'll never see the light of day again. Reality is probably that tons of classified documents get mishandled, in small amounts, basically every day. Also, the reddit post wasn't about deleting emails, it was removing names and email addresses. One specific person's. Which the FBI either knew who it was (if it was Hillary), or could get easily by asking the dumb IT guy. The US gov routinely classifies virtually everything, often stuff that you can read in the newspapers but which the government is not yet ready to admit will be classified information. No surprise people inside the government don't take it seriously. Something like a million citizens have fairly wide access to classified information anyway, these things are all open secrets. Of course there are some stricter labels like top secret that to reveal carry real implications. On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. I think for my long term health I should really stop visiting this thread. Trump is evil, like someone else said, he is a cartoon villain. How literally delusional do you have to be to consider voting for him? He is an actual threat to world civilization. I bet you are exactly the type of person that would vote for Lex Luthor as president. Thanks for the laugh. I'm literally delusional to even consider voting for him. An actual threat to world civilization. Now put a Bible in your right hand and state that this election is between the forces of darkness and the forces of light. It used to be common fare to make fun of the religious right's figures, but now it's crossed over to the American left. And yes, between the two, Trump is the far better choice for America, however upset I am that those are final two choices. you still feel that way after the tweetstorm? Why would that change his opinion, Trump's done 1000x worse than those tweets before and people didn't abandon ship Compared to the rest of this thread, what you're doing is brilliant political analysis. On September 30 2016 23:21 Grumbels wrote:On September 30 2016 23:17 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 13:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. Constantly amazes me how entrenched the party lines are in the US. You basically have a cartoon villain running for President. I think you guys should've stuck to the "literally Hitler" schtick. On September 30 2016 16:08 Grumbels wrote:On September 30 2016 11:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 11:46 biology]major wrote:
I find this fbi email scandal case fascinating. I really wonder if I would have gotten the same consequence as HRC if I did the same things she did. If I set up a private email server and had 2-3 classified documents out of thousands, basically told the FBI "I didn't know!!", was found to lie about it to the public. Oh and if my employee had made a reddit post asking for how to delete emails from my server and then tried to delete his posts after his username was found out.
Anyone honestly think comey would add in an intent element to the statute for me or you or anyone else? Lost a lot of faith in the FBI. Probably? You'd also have to be someone with access to classified documents in the first place. I imagine there's this bizarre fetishization of classified information, like the public imagines that a breach of that will get you shipped to a secret prison and you'll never see the light of day again. Reality is probably that tons of classified documents get mishandled, in small amounts, basically every day. Also, the reddit post wasn't about deleting emails, it was removing names and email addresses. One specific person's. Which the FBI either knew who it was (if it was Hillary), or could get easily by asking the dumb IT guy. The US gov routinely classifies virtually everything, often stuff that you can read in the newspapers but which the government is not yet ready to admit will be classified information. No surprise people inside the government don't take it seriously. Something like a million citizens have fairly wide access to classified information anyway, these things are all open secrets. Of course there are some stricter labels like top secret that to reveal carry real implications. On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. I think for my long term health I should really stop visiting this thread. Trump is evil, like someone else said, he is a cartoon villain. How literally delusional do you have to be to consider voting for him? He is an actual threat to world civilization. I bet you are exactly the type of person that would vote for Lex Luthor as president. Thanks for the laugh. I'm literally delusional to even consider voting for him. An actual threat to world civilization. Now put a Bible in your right hand and state that this election is between the forces of darkness and the forces of light. It used to be common fare to make fun of the religious right's figures, but now it's crossed over to the American left. And yes, between the two, Trump is the far better choice for America, however upset I am that those are final two choices. Remind you of anyone? http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/books/hitler-ascent-volker-ullrich.html Are you on some bet to go between Hitler and comic book villain in alternating posts? On September 30 2016 23:43 farvacola wrote:On September 30 2016 23:40 Mohdoo wrote:On September 30 2016 23:35 Stratos_speAr wrote:
And xDaunt kept trying to tell us all summer about how Trump was actually a mastermind and was playing the Left like a fiddle this entire election... I think for a lot of people, the idea that someone who really is just a crazy, insecure loudmouthed shithead winning their primary is a really big deal. It really can't be rectified in their mindset that there aren't legitimate problems with the party. The idea that Trump is a mastermind was the only way the existing view of the party could be somewhat intact. I mean, it's a pretty devastating thing. People identify pretty strongly with their party. For certain communities, loyalty to the republican party is also often a family/community thing. People raised to be proud republicans, being told they are the heart of the country and all that stuff, may have a hard time coming to realize things are not nearly as they appeared. It forces someone to either significantly lower their view of their elder family members and community, or find another way to see the grass as green. My law school graduating class this year is full to the brim with Republicans who are very honest about how devastating Trump's nomination is to their sense of politics. Thus far, it seems like Introvert is the only poster on here who matches up with that perspective, though I may be forgetting some. In a sane world, there would be plenty of legitimate attacks on Trump's candidacy (such as those tweets like that late in the night) to devote enough time to arguing the future of the Republican party with respect to populist trade and entitlement programs. But today's American left will have to settle for thinking his critique directed at him is not devastating enough to meet their notice. 'In a sane world people would heavily question Trump' you say. And yet you clearly support Trump. Does that make you insane? Also trying to blame the other side, who did not vote in the Republican primary, for your side having the worst presidential candidate ever is a wonderful show of mental gymnastics.
Nice mangled quote. The duplicity is the topic here, not heavy questioning ipso facto. Several posters here have pointed out the obvious drawbacks to Trump's behavior and positions.
On October 01 2016 00:31 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 00:28 ticklishmusic wrote:xDaunt and Danglars want to spin this one? I hear Conway is asking for a raise. I believe the standard Democrat answer on such topics will suffice: "Who are we to judge whom Trump fucks in the privacy of his own bedroom?"
I gather sexual liberation only applies to registered Democrats.
I'm ready to come clean here, guys. I laughed at that tweet.
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On October 01 2016 00:36 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 00:26 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 01 2016 00:15 LegalLord wrote:On September 30 2016 23:46 Stratos_speAr wrote:On September 30 2016 23:43 farvacola wrote:On September 30 2016 23:40 Mohdoo wrote:On September 30 2016 23:35 Stratos_speAr wrote:
And xDaunt kept trying to tell us all summer about how Trump was actually a mastermind and was playing the Left like a fiddle this entire election... I think for a lot of people, the idea that someone who really is just a crazy, insecure loudmouthed shithead winning their primary is a really big deal. It really can't be rectified in their mindset that there aren't legitimate problems with the party. The idea that Trump is a mastermind was the only way the existing view of the party could be somewhat intact. I mean, it's a pretty devastating thing. People identify pretty strongly with their party. For certain communities, loyalty to the republican party is also often a family/community thing. People raised to be proud republicans, being told they are the heart of the country and all that stuff, may have a hard time coming to realize things are not nearly as they appeared. It forces someone to either significantly lower their view of their elder family members and community, or find another way to see the grass as green. My law school graduating class this year is full to the brim with Republicans who are very honest about how devastating Trump's nomination is to their sense of politics. Thus far, it seems like Introvert is the only poster on here who matches up with that perspective, though I may be forgetting some. LegalLord, although he's not that much of a conservative; more a contrarian, if I had to put a label to it. I spend more time discussing the underrepresented parts of what I think about this race because there are already plenty of people willing to talk about it when Trump is buttfucking awful and when Hillary isn't, but few talking about the reverse. I usually don't have much to add to 20 Hillary fanboys singing her praise because they cover it well enough. I'm left of center, "on average." Definitely not a Republican given the current state of the party. Call it the effect of a cynical voter base, but Hillary's worst points are purely political issues that are well within expectations. Most people are going to hear those scandals and think "oh, look, a politician being a politician". If Trump wasn't the opposition, I imagine this would be a standard boring election cycle with two candidates slinging the generic political mud at each other and barely anything sticking. That said, it wouldn't take much of a "mainstream politician" to bury Hillary. Just someone who isn't blatantly incompetent on important issues of policy, such as Bernie "no FP experience except voting against Iraq" Sanders, and Donald "wtf is a nuclear triad i dont even" Trump.
To be honest I find the entire FP football be a bit tiring. There are not a lot of good solutions for many regions of the world right now(or ever really) and our involvement with them is mostly pragmatic. Personally, I am not looking for much in the FP department beyond not going to war and avoiding us getting nuked. Both of those things seem well within Clinton’s wheelhouse.
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On October 01 2016 00:36 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 00:26 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 01 2016 00:15 LegalLord wrote:On September 30 2016 23:46 Stratos_speAr wrote:On September 30 2016 23:43 farvacola wrote:On September 30 2016 23:40 Mohdoo wrote:On September 30 2016 23:35 Stratos_speAr wrote:
And xDaunt kept trying to tell us all summer about how Trump was actually a mastermind and was playing the Left like a fiddle this entire election... I think for a lot of people, the idea that someone who really is just a crazy, insecure loudmouthed shithead winning their primary is a really big deal. It really can't be rectified in their mindset that there aren't legitimate problems with the party. The idea that Trump is a mastermind was the only way the existing view of the party could be somewhat intact. I mean, it's a pretty devastating thing. People identify pretty strongly with their party. For certain communities, loyalty to the republican party is also often a family/community thing. People raised to be proud republicans, being told they are the heart of the country and all that stuff, may have a hard time coming to realize things are not nearly as they appeared. It forces someone to either significantly lower their view of their elder family members and community, or find another way to see the grass as green. My law school graduating class this year is full to the brim with Republicans who are very honest about how devastating Trump's nomination is to their sense of politics. Thus far, it seems like Introvert is the only poster on here who matches up with that perspective, though I may be forgetting some. LegalLord, although he's not that much of a conservative; more a contrarian, if I had to put a label to it. I spend more time discussing the underrepresented parts of what I think about this race because there are already plenty of people willing to talk about it when Trump is buttfucking awful and when Hillary isn't, but few talking about the reverse. I usually don't have much to add to 20 Hillary fanboys singing her praise because they cover it well enough. I'm left of center, "on average." Definitely not a Republican given the current state of the party. Call it the effect of a cynical voter base, but Hillary's worst points are purely political issues that are well within expectations. Most people are going to hear those scandals and think "oh, look, a politician being a politician". If Trump wasn't the opposition, I imagine this would be a standard boring election cycle with two candidates slinging the generic political mud at each other and barely anything sticking. That said, it wouldn't take much of a "mainstream politician" to bury Hillary. Just someone who isn't blatantly incompetent on important issues of policy, such as Bernie "no FP experience except voting against Iraq" Sanders, and Donald "wtf is a nuclear triad i dont even" Trump.
Competence on important issues is arguably the very thing that elevates politicians to places like those occupied by the likes of Biden, Dole, Kerry, and McCain.
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On October 01 2016 00:46 Danglars wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 30 2016 23:57 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:52 Danglars wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 30 2016 23:23 farvacola wrote:
In Danglars' reality, no one made fun of Dukakis and McGovern like they did Falwell and Robertson. Interesting. I do enjoy the full history, thank you. Now, are you ready to unironically use "cartoon villain," "literally delusional," "actual threat to world civilization," "type of person that would vote for Lex Luthor as president?" It appears you want to understand historical tomfoolery, but the modern one is totally germane political discourse. On September 30 2016 23:21 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:20 ticklishmusic wrote:On September 30 2016 23:17 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 13:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. Constantly amazes me how entrenched the party lines are in the US. You basically have a cartoon villain running for President. I think you guys should've stuck to the "literally Hitler" schtick. On September 30 2016 16:08 Grumbels wrote:On September 30 2016 11:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 11:46 biology]major wrote:
I find this fbi email scandal case fascinating. I really wonder if I would have gotten the same consequence as HRC if I did the same things she did. If I set up a private email server and had 2-3 classified documents out of thousands, basically told the FBI "I didn't know!!", was found to lie about it to the public. Oh and if my employee had made a reddit post asking for how to delete emails from my server and then tried to delete his posts after his username was found out.
Anyone honestly think comey would add in an intent element to the statute for me or you or anyone else? Lost a lot of faith in the FBI. Probably? You'd also have to be someone with access to classified documents in the first place. I imagine there's this bizarre fetishization of classified information, like the public imagines that a breach of that will get you shipped to a secret prison and you'll never see the light of day again. Reality is probably that tons of classified documents get mishandled, in small amounts, basically every day. Also, the reddit post wasn't about deleting emails, it was removing names and email addresses. One specific person's. Which the FBI either knew who it was (if it was Hillary), or could get easily by asking the dumb IT guy. The US gov routinely classifies virtually everything, often stuff that you can read in the newspapers but which the government is not yet ready to admit will be classified information. No surprise people inside the government don't take it seriously. Something like a million citizens have fairly wide access to classified information anyway, these things are all open secrets. Of course there are some stricter labels like top secret that to reveal carry real implications. On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. I think for my long term health I should really stop visiting this thread. Trump is evil, like someone else said, he is a cartoon villain. How literally delusional do you have to be to consider voting for him? He is an actual threat to world civilization. I bet you are exactly the type of person that would vote for Lex Luthor as president. Thanks for the laugh. I'm literally delusional to even consider voting for him. An actual threat to world civilization. Now put a Bible in your right hand and state that this election is between the forces of darkness and the forces of light. It used to be common fare to make fun of the religious right's figures, but now it's crossed over to the American left. And yes, between the two, Trump is the far better choice for America, however upset I am that those are final two choices. you still feel that way after the tweetstorm? Why would that change his opinion, Trump's done 1000x worse than those tweets before and people didn't abandon ship Compared to the rest of this thread, what you're doing is brilliant political analysis. On September 30 2016 23:21 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:17 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 13:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. Constantly amazes me how entrenched the party lines are in the US. You basically have a cartoon villain running for President. I think you guys should've stuck to the "literally Hitler" schtick. On September 30 2016 16:08 Grumbels wrote:On September 30 2016 11:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 11:46 biology]major wrote:
I find this fbi email scandal case fascinating. I really wonder if I would have gotten the same consequence as HRC if I did the same things she did. If I set up a private email server and had 2-3 classified documents out of thousands, basically told the FBI "I didn't know!!", was found to lie about it to the public. Oh and if my employee had made a reddit post asking for how to delete emails from my server and then tried to delete his posts after his username was found out.
Anyone honestly think comey would add in an intent element to the statute for me or you or anyone else? Lost a lot of faith in the FBI. Probably? You'd also have to be someone with access to classified documents in the first place. I imagine there's this bizarre fetishization of classified information, like the public imagines that a breach of that will get you shipped to a secret prison and you'll never see the light of day again. Reality is probably that tons of classified documents get mishandled, in small amounts, basically every day. Also, the reddit post wasn't about deleting emails, it was removing names and email addresses. One specific person's. Which the FBI either knew who it was (if it was Hillary), or could get easily by asking the dumb IT guy. The US gov routinely classifies virtually everything, often stuff that you can read in the newspapers but which the government is not yet ready to admit will be classified information. No surprise people inside the government don't take it seriously. Something like a million citizens have fairly wide access to classified information anyway, these things are all open secrets. Of course there are some stricter labels like top secret that to reveal carry real implications. On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. I think for my long term health I should really stop visiting this thread. Trump is evil, like someone else said, he is a cartoon villain. How literally delusional do you have to be to consider voting for him? He is an actual threat to world civilization. I bet you are exactly the type of person that would vote for Lex Luthor as president. Thanks for the laugh. I'm literally delusional to even consider voting for him. An actual threat to world civilization. Now put a Bible in your right hand and state that this election is between the forces of darkness and the forces of light. It used to be common fare to make fun of the religious right's figures, but now it's crossed over to the American left. And yes, between the two, Trump is the far better choice for America, however upset I am that those are final two choices. Remind you of anyone? http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/books/hitler-ascent-volker-ullrich.html Are you on some bet to go between Hitler and comic book villain in alternating posts? On September 30 2016 23:43 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:40 Mohdoo wrote:On September 30 2016 23:35 Stratos_speAr wrote:
And xDaunt kept trying to tell us all summer about how Trump was actually a mastermind and was playing the Left like a fiddle this entire election... I think for a lot of people, the idea that someone who really is just a crazy, insecure loudmouthed shithead winning their primary is a really big deal. It really can't be rectified in their mindset that there aren't legitimate problems with the party. The idea that Trump is a mastermind was the only way the existing view of the party could be somewhat intact. I mean, it's a pretty devastating thing. People identify pretty strongly with their party. For certain communities, loyalty to the republican party is also often a family/community thing. People raised to be proud republicans, being told they are the heart of the country and all that stuff, may have a hard time coming to realize things are not nearly as they appeared. It forces someone to either significantly lower their view of their elder family members and community, or find another way to see the grass as green. My law school graduating class this year is full to the brim with Republicans who are very honest about how devastating Trump's nomination is to their sense of politics. Thus far, it seems like Introvert is the only poster on here who matches up with that perspective, though I may be forgetting some. In a sane world, there would be plenty of legitimate attacks on Trump's candidacy (such as those tweets like that late in the night) to devote enough time to arguing the future of the Republican party with respect to populist trade and entitlement programs. But today's American left will have to settle for thinking his critique directed at him is not devastating enough to meet their notice. "Today's left" is not alone as it ponders Trump's candidacy, and therein lies the error in your focus on the left/right dichotomy. I appreciate that you're able to toe the party line while many, Democrats and Republicans alike, assert that said line has practically disappeared via Trump's ascendency, but it is a mistake to assume that Democratic criticisms of Trump come at the expense of self-reflection. There are many Democrats, even those of the establishment variety, that are finally coming to terms with just how flimsy Clinton's candidacy has been, and being able to identify those parts of Trump's campaign (namely almost all of them) that are abjectly detestable doesn't really get in the way of that. So, as means of setting the record straight to show you can properly self reflect, consider the question I asked from your first post I responded to. You claim I live in an alternative reality that doesn't critique men you cite, would you please enlighten me to whether or not you would make fun of the example I cited. If everybody refuses to comment on its modern incarnations, I can only assume you support the modern Falwells instead of the past. On October 01 2016 00:15 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:52 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 23:23 farvacola wrote:
In Danglars' reality, no one made fun of Dukakis and McGovern like they did Falwell and Robertson. Interesting. I do enjoy the full history, thank you. Now, are you ready to unironically use "cartoon villain," "literally delusional," "actual threat to world civilization," "type of person that would vote for Lex Luthor as president?" It appears you want to understand historical tomfoolery, but the modern one is totally germane political discourse. On September 30 2016 23:21 Dan HH wrote:On September 30 2016 23:20 ticklishmusic wrote:On September 30 2016 23:17 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 13:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. Constantly amazes me how entrenched the party lines are in the US. You basically have a cartoon villain running for President. I think you guys should've stuck to the "literally Hitler" schtick. On September 30 2016 16:08 Grumbels wrote:On September 30 2016 11:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 11:46 biology]major wrote:
I find this fbi email scandal case fascinating. I really wonder if I would have gotten the same consequence as HRC if I did the same things she did. If I set up a private email server and had 2-3 classified documents out of thousands, basically told the FBI "I didn't know!!", was found to lie about it to the public. Oh and if my employee had made a reddit post asking for how to delete emails from my server and then tried to delete his posts after his username was found out.
Anyone honestly think comey would add in an intent element to the statute for me or you or anyone else? Lost a lot of faith in the FBI. Probably? You'd also have to be someone with access to classified documents in the first place. I imagine there's this bizarre fetishization of classified information, like the public imagines that a breach of that will get you shipped to a secret prison and you'll never see the light of day again. Reality is probably that tons of classified documents get mishandled, in small amounts, basically every day. Also, the reddit post wasn't about deleting emails, it was removing names and email addresses. One specific person's. Which the FBI either knew who it was (if it was Hillary), or could get easily by asking the dumb IT guy. The US gov routinely classifies virtually everything, often stuff that you can read in the newspapers but which the government is not yet ready to admit will be classified information. No surprise people inside the government don't take it seriously. Something like a million citizens have fairly wide access to classified information anyway, these things are all open secrets. Of course there are some stricter labels like top secret that to reveal carry real implications. On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. I think for my long term health I should really stop visiting this thread. Trump is evil, like someone else said, he is a cartoon villain. How literally delusional do you have to be to consider voting for him? He is an actual threat to world civilization. I bet you are exactly the type of person that would vote for Lex Luthor as president. Thanks for the laugh. I'm literally delusional to even consider voting for him. An actual threat to world civilization. Now put a Bible in your right hand and state that this election is between the forces of darkness and the forces of light. It used to be common fare to make fun of the religious right's figures, but now it's crossed over to the American left. And yes, between the two, Trump is the far better choice for America, however upset I am that those are final two choices. you still feel that way after the tweetstorm? Why would that change his opinion, Trump's done 1000x worse than those tweets before and people didn't abandon ship Compared to the rest of this thread, what you're doing is brilliant political analysis. On September 30 2016 23:21 Grumbels wrote:On September 30 2016 23:17 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 13:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. Constantly amazes me how entrenched the party lines are in the US. You basically have a cartoon villain running for President. I think you guys should've stuck to the "literally Hitler" schtick. On September 30 2016 16:08 Grumbels wrote:On September 30 2016 11:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 11:46 biology]major wrote:
I find this fbi email scandal case fascinating. I really wonder if I would have gotten the same consequence as HRC if I did the same things she did. If I set up a private email server and had 2-3 classified documents out of thousands, basically told the FBI "I didn't know!!", was found to lie about it to the public. Oh and if my employee had made a reddit post asking for how to delete emails from my server and then tried to delete his posts after his username was found out.
Anyone honestly think comey would add in an intent element to the statute for me or you or anyone else? Lost a lot of faith in the FBI. Probably? You'd also have to be someone with access to classified documents in the first place. I imagine there's this bizarre fetishization of classified information, like the public imagines that a breach of that will get you shipped to a secret prison and you'll never see the light of day again. Reality is probably that tons of classified documents get mishandled, in small amounts, basically every day. Also, the reddit post wasn't about deleting emails, it was removing names and email addresses. One specific person's. Which the FBI either knew who it was (if it was Hillary), or could get easily by asking the dumb IT guy. The US gov routinely classifies virtually everything, often stuff that you can read in the newspapers but which the government is not yet ready to admit will be classified information. No surprise people inside the government don't take it seriously. Something like a million citizens have fairly wide access to classified information anyway, these things are all open secrets. Of course there are some stricter labels like top secret that to reveal carry real implications. On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. I think for my long term health I should really stop visiting this thread. Trump is evil, like someone else said, he is a cartoon villain. How literally delusional do you have to be to consider voting for him? He is an actual threat to world civilization. I bet you are exactly the type of person that would vote for Lex Luthor as president. Thanks for the laugh. I'm literally delusional to even consider voting for him. An actual threat to world civilization. Now put a Bible in your right hand and state that this election is between the forces of darkness and the forces of light. It used to be common fare to make fun of the religious right's figures, but now it's crossed over to the American left. And yes, between the two, Trump is the far better choice for America, however upset I am that those are final two choices. Remind you of anyone? http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/books/hitler-ascent-volker-ullrich.html Are you on some bet to go between Hitler and comic book villain in alternating posts? On September 30 2016 23:43 farvacola wrote:On September 30 2016 23:40 Mohdoo wrote:On September 30 2016 23:35 Stratos_speAr wrote:
And xDaunt kept trying to tell us all summer about how Trump was actually a mastermind and was playing the Left like a fiddle this entire election... I think for a lot of people, the idea that someone who really is just a crazy, insecure loudmouthed shithead winning their primary is a really big deal. It really can't be rectified in their mindset that there aren't legitimate problems with the party. The idea that Trump is a mastermind was the only way the existing view of the party could be somewhat intact. I mean, it's a pretty devastating thing. People identify pretty strongly with their party. For certain communities, loyalty to the republican party is also often a family/community thing. People raised to be proud republicans, being told they are the heart of the country and all that stuff, may have a hard time coming to realize things are not nearly as they appeared. It forces someone to either significantly lower their view of their elder family members and community, or find another way to see the grass as green. My law school graduating class this year is full to the brim with Republicans who are very honest about how devastating Trump's nomination is to their sense of politics. Thus far, it seems like Introvert is the only poster on here who matches up with that perspective, though I may be forgetting some. In a sane world, there would be plenty of legitimate attacks on Trump's candidacy (such as those tweets like that late in the night) to devote enough time to arguing the future of the Republican party with respect to populist trade and entitlement programs. But today's American left will have to settle for thinking his critique directed at him is not devastating enough to meet their notice. 'In a sane world people would heavily question Trump' you say. And yet you clearly support Trump. Does that make you insane? Also trying to blame the other side, who did not vote in the Republican primary, for your side having the worst presidential candidate ever is a wonderful show of mental gymnastics. Nice mangled quote. The duplicity is the topic here, not heavy questioning ipso facto. Several posters here have pointed out the obvious drawbacks to Trump's behavior and positions. On October 01 2016 00:31 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 00:28 ticklishmusic wrote:xDaunt and Danglars want to spin this one? I hear Conway is asking for a raise. I believe the standard Democrat answer on such topics will suffice: "Who are we to judge whom Trump fucks in the privacy of his own bedroom?" I gather sexual liberation only applies to registered Democrats. I'm ready to come clean here, guys. I laughed at that tweet.
Literally everyone and everything can be ridiculed if considered in the appropriate light, what exactly are you asking?
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On October 01 2016 00:44 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 00:34 LegalLord wrote:On October 01 2016 00:30 Dan HH wrote:On October 01 2016 00:21 LegalLord wrote:
Kaine is somewhat poorly liked on average. I agree with that interpretation but I'm surprised by it. I really thought people were going to just buy into the most favorable interpretation of him that the Dem party could dream up, just because he isn't well-known. What would be a less favorable interpretation of him? I'm curious what could drag him lower than Mike "Condoms are too liberal and smoking doesn't kill" Pence For all intents and purposes he is a carbon copy of the type of politician that Hillary is: an opportunist who flip-flops based on political expedience while being nominally socially progressive enough to draw attention away from the fact that he is pretty vacuous as a candidate. I would agree with that assessment, but it doesn't clear up my confusion about the American public preferring all-out nuttery over 'meh'
Pence is the "sane voice of the Trump campaign" by comparison and everyone else within the GOP is appropriately ranked at rock bottom for approval rating.
On October 01 2016 00:47 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 00:36 LegalLord wrote:On October 01 2016 00:26 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 01 2016 00:15 LegalLord wrote:On September 30 2016 23:46 Stratos_speAr wrote:On September 30 2016 23:43 farvacola wrote:On September 30 2016 23:40 Mohdoo wrote:On September 30 2016 23:35 Stratos_speAr wrote:
And xDaunt kept trying to tell us all summer about how Trump was actually a mastermind and was playing the Left like a fiddle this entire election... I think for a lot of people, the idea that someone who really is just a crazy, insecure loudmouthed shithead winning their primary is a really big deal. It really can't be rectified in their mindset that there aren't legitimate problems with the party. The idea that Trump is a mastermind was the only way the existing view of the party could be somewhat intact. I mean, it's a pretty devastating thing. People identify pretty strongly with their party. For certain communities, loyalty to the republican party is also often a family/community thing. People raised to be proud republicans, being told they are the heart of the country and all that stuff, may have a hard time coming to realize things are not nearly as they appeared. It forces someone to either significantly lower their view of their elder family members and community, or find another way to see the grass as green. My law school graduating class this year is full to the brim with Republicans who are very honest about how devastating Trump's nomination is to their sense of politics. Thus far, it seems like Introvert is the only poster on here who matches up with that perspective, though I may be forgetting some. LegalLord, although he's not that much of a conservative; more a contrarian, if I had to put a label to it. I spend more time discussing the underrepresented parts of what I think about this race because there are already plenty of people willing to talk about it when Trump is buttfucking awful and when Hillary isn't, but few talking about the reverse. I usually don't have much to add to 20 Hillary fanboys singing her praise because they cover it well enough. I'm left of center, "on average." Definitely not a Republican given the current state of the party. Call it the effect of a cynical voter base, but Hillary's worst points are purely political issues that are well within expectations. Most people are going to hear those scandals and think "oh, look, a politician being a politician". If Trump wasn't the opposition, I imagine this would be a standard boring election cycle with two candidates slinging the generic political mud at each other and barely anything sticking. That said, it wouldn't take much of a "mainstream politician" to bury Hillary. Just someone who isn't blatantly incompetent on important issues of policy, such as Bernie "no FP experience except voting against Iraq" Sanders, and Donald "wtf is a nuclear triad i dont even" Trump. To be honest I find the entire FP football be a bit tiring. There are not a lot of good solutions for many regions of the world right now(or ever really) and our involvement with them is mostly pragmatic. Personally, I am not looking for much in the FP department beyond not going to war and avoiding us getting nuked. Both of those things seem well within Clinton’s wheelhouse.
Hillary will certainly not push things enough to start another world war, but she will test the limits of how far the US can go in FP adventurism before countries align strongly against its foreign interests. The "hegemonic dominance" of the US is only as strong as its alliances with countries that are not tied to it by deeper ties than just political pragmatism (pretty much every country that isn't English-speaking) and I fully expect Hillary to chip away at the goodwill of those nations with more poorly conceived military ventures.
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