|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
Danglars, your posts are becoming utterly boring because you don't even bother to come up with clever rationalizations for supporting Trump, now you're just replying with non sequiturs and vague contrarianism. If you can't actually articulate a proper defense of voting for Trump then shouldn't you start questioning your political beliefs?
|
On September 30 2016 23:41 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:38 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
But Trump is a mastermind in a sense, but he also a ego. A massive one at that. Being able to identify and follow the path of least resistance is hardly the stuff of a mastermind, but yes, spot on with regards to the ego 
But who was tweeting in the early hours. The mastermind that knows the senior citizen that won't check to see that that wasn't the same woman who did a sex tape, or the ego who believes he can't be wrong.
Right now this election will come down to turnout and third parties.
|
On October 01 2016 00:02 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:55 Nevuk wrote:
I wonder if Johnson's most recent gaffe will actually hurt him in the polls. I've seen a lot of people who said they didn't mind the Aleppo thing claim that they were really bothered by his foreign leader answer. People desperate for a feeling of patting themselves on the back for being throwing their vote away are having a very hard time. What I enjoy most about the major gaffes by Stein and Johnson is the fact that so many edgy millennials had such a great time developing this conspiracy against 3rd parties, convinced they had great policies. "If only mainstream America could HEAR what Stein and Johnson had to say, it would be obvious how great they are for our country!", they would say. But thanks to the internet and social media, we've had no problem hearing what they have to say. We then proceeded to lean back in our chairs, let out a hearty laugh and go back to our business. These are not just "third" parties. These are deficient parties with uninformed, unrealistic, shitty platforms being perpetuated by deeply flawed candidates.
What were the “major gaffes” from Stein?
|
On October 01 2016 00:04 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:41 farvacola wrote:On September 30 2016 23:38 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
But Trump is a mastermind in a sense, but he also a ego. A massive one at that. Being able to identify and follow the path of least resistance is hardly the stuff of a mastermind, but yes, spot on with regards to the ego But who was tweeting in the early hours. The mastermind that knows the senior citizen that won't check to see that that wasn't the same woman who did a sex tape, or the ego who believes he can't be wrong. Right now this election will come down to turnout and third parties.
It was the doofus that actually believed it, by all indications he gets his news from the same places as Nettle and with the same lack of skepticism for headlines that he wants to be true
|
On October 01 2016 00:03 Grumbels wrote:
Danglars, your posts are becoming utterly boring because you don't even bother to come up with clever rationalizations for supporting Trump, now you're just replying with non sequiturs and vague contrarianism. If you can't actually articulate a proper defense of voting for Trump then shouldn't you start questioning your political beliefs?
I'm surprised that Danglars hasn't lost patience with engaging people in here on why Trump may be worthy of support. None of y'all have any interest in listening to what anyone has to say on that point.
|
On September 30 2016 23:52 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:23 farvacola wrote:
In Danglars' reality, no one made fun of Dukakis and McGovern like they did Falwell and Robertson. Interesting. I do enjoy the full history, thank you. Now, are you ready to unironically use "cartoon villain," "literally delusional," "actual threat to world civilization," "type of person that would vote for Lex Luthor as president?" It appears you want to understand historical tomfoolery, but the modern one is totally germane political discourse. Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:21 Dan HH wrote:On September 30 2016 23:20 ticklishmusic wrote:On September 30 2016 23:17 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 13:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. Constantly amazes me how entrenched the party lines are in the US. You basically have a cartoon villain running for President. I think you guys should've stuck to the "literally Hitler" schtick. On September 30 2016 16:08 Grumbels wrote:On September 30 2016 11:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 11:46 biology]major wrote:
I find this fbi email scandal case fascinating. I really wonder if I would have gotten the same consequence as HRC if I did the same things she did. If I set up a private email server and had 2-3 classified documents out of thousands, basically told the FBI "I didn't know!!", was found to lie about it to the public. Oh and if my employee had made a reddit post asking for how to delete emails from my server and then tried to delete his posts after his username was found out.
Anyone honestly think comey would add in an intent element to the statute for me or you or anyone else? Lost a lot of faith in the FBI. Probably? You'd also have to be someone with access to classified documents in the first place. I imagine there's this bizarre fetishization of classified information, like the public imagines that a breach of that will get you shipped to a secret prison and you'll never see the light of day again. Reality is probably that tons of classified documents get mishandled, in small amounts, basically every day. Also, the reddit post wasn't about deleting emails, it was removing names and email addresses. One specific person's. Which the FBI either knew who it was (if it was Hillary), or could get easily by asking the dumb IT guy. The US gov routinely classifies virtually everything, often stuff that you can read in the newspapers but which the government is not yet ready to admit will be classified information. No surprise people inside the government don't take it seriously. Something like a million citizens have fairly wide access to classified information anyway, these things are all open secrets. Of course there are some stricter labels like top secret that to reveal carry real implications. On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. I think for my long term health I should really stop visiting this thread. Trump is evil, like someone else said, he is a cartoon villain. How literally delusional do you have to be to consider voting for him? He is an actual threat to world civilization. I bet you are exactly the type of person that would vote for Lex Luthor as president. Thanks for the laugh. I'm literally delusional to even consider voting for him. An actual threat to world civilization. Now put a Bible in your right hand and state that this election is between the forces of darkness and the forces of light. It used to be common fare to make fun of the religious right's figures, but now it's crossed over to the American left. And yes, between the two, Trump is the far better choice for America, however upset I am that those are final two choices. you still feel that way after the tweetstorm? Why would that change his opinion, Trump's done 1000x worse than those tweets before and people didn't abandon ship Compared to the rest of this thread, what you're doing is brilliant political analysis. Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:21 Grumbels wrote:On September 30 2016 23:17 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 13:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. Constantly amazes me how entrenched the party lines are in the US. You basically have a cartoon villain running for President. I think you guys should've stuck to the "literally Hitler" schtick. On September 30 2016 16:08 Grumbels wrote:On September 30 2016 11:54 WolfintheSheep wrote:On September 30 2016 11:46 biology]major wrote:
I find this fbi email scandal case fascinating. I really wonder if I would have gotten the same consequence as HRC if I did the same things she did. If I set up a private email server and had 2-3 classified documents out of thousands, basically told the FBI "I didn't know!!", was found to lie about it to the public. Oh and if my employee had made a reddit post asking for how to delete emails from my server and then tried to delete his posts after his username was found out.
Anyone honestly think comey would add in an intent element to the statute for me or you or anyone else? Lost a lot of faith in the FBI. Probably? You'd also have to be someone with access to classified documents in the first place. I imagine there's this bizarre fetishization of classified information, like the public imagines that a breach of that will get you shipped to a secret prison and you'll never see the light of day again. Reality is probably that tons of classified documents get mishandled, in small amounts, basically every day. Also, the reddit post wasn't about deleting emails, it was removing names and email addresses. One specific person's. Which the FBI either knew who it was (if it was Hillary), or could get easily by asking the dumb IT guy. The US gov routinely classifies virtually everything, often stuff that you can read in the newspapers but which the government is not yet ready to admit will be classified information. No surprise people inside the government don't take it seriously. Something like a million citizens have fairly wide access to classified information anyway, these things are all open secrets. Of course there are some stricter labels like top secret that to reveal carry real implications. On September 30 2016 13:28 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 11:21 Nevuk wrote:On September 30 2016 11:07 Danglars wrote:On September 30 2016 10:26 Nevuk wrote:
Frankly, it's kind of disgusting that the american system let's a man get away with all the shit Trump has pulled until a concerted effort is actually made to look into his business dealings for political reasons (no one would be investigating half the things that have come out recently if he weren't running for president). We learned about Clinton's private email server years later, despite at least two warnings from state department officials. Clinton foundation higher-ups had intimate connections with the state department such as hiring and firing, and major donors to the foundation got favors from the state department. I can only wonder how the Obama administration let that go on that long. Disgusting! No one would care about that at all if Clinton weren't in politics either. I'm saying that a man who treated tenants and business partners the way he has should be in jail, period. I don't care if he's in politics or not - his behavior is flat out unacceptable and it shouldn't have taken this long to find out about his absurdly shady foundation. That lack of vetting seems pretty bad on the part of the GOP. It has nothing to do with his opponent, who I'm not a huge fan of either. It has to do with the system that allows parasitic scum like Trump to exist in the first place. You know I have met some cynical people in life. But it takes someone especially callous to think selling government influence and putting her own secrecy obsession above national security is not of interest. Add to that how long she got away with it, just like you were concerned with Trump's. Maybe what America needs is Trump to serve four years, and next time nominate a better opposing candidate that won't make Nixon look like Saint George. Hell, the journalism alone might be a boon to the next generation to see what speaking truth to power really looks like. I think for my long term health I should really stop visiting this thread. Trump is evil, like someone else said, he is a cartoon villain. How literally delusional do you have to be to consider voting for him? He is an actual threat to world civilization. I bet you are exactly the type of person that would vote for Lex Luthor as president. Thanks for the laugh. I'm literally delusional to even consider voting for him. An actual threat to world civilization. Now put a Bible in your right hand and state that this election is between the forces of darkness and the forces of light. It used to be common fare to make fun of the religious right's figures, but now it's crossed over to the American left. And yes, between the two, Trump is the far better choice for America, however upset I am that those are final two choices. Remind you of anyone? http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/books/hitler-ascent-volker-ullrich.html Are you on some bet to go between Hitler and comic book villain in alternating posts? Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:43 farvacola wrote:On September 30 2016 23:40 Mohdoo wrote:On September 30 2016 23:35 Stratos_speAr wrote:
And xDaunt kept trying to tell us all summer about how Trump was actually a mastermind and was playing the Left like a fiddle this entire election... I think for a lot of people, the idea that someone who really is just a crazy, insecure loudmouthed shithead winning their primary is a really big deal. It really can't be rectified in their mindset that there aren't legitimate problems with the party. The idea that Trump is a mastermind was the only way the existing view of the party could be somewhat intact. I mean, it's a pretty devastating thing. People identify pretty strongly with their party. For certain communities, loyalty to the republican party is also often a family/community thing. People raised to be proud republicans, being told they are the heart of the country and all that stuff, may have a hard time coming to realize things are not nearly as they appeared. It forces someone to either significantly lower their view of their elder family members and community, or find another way to see the grass as green. My law school graduating class this year is full to the brim with Republicans who are very honest about how devastating Trump's nomination is to their sense of politics. Thus far, it seems like Introvert is the only poster on here who matches up with that perspective, though I may be forgetting some. In a sane world, there would be plenty of legitimate attacks on Trump's candidacy (such as those tweets like that late in the night) to devote enough time to arguing the future of the Republican party with respect to populist trade and entitlement programs. But today's American left will have to settle for thinking his critique directed at him is not devastating enough to meet their notice.
'In a sane world people would heavily question Trump' you say.
And yet you clearly support Trump. Does that make you insane?
Also trying to blame the other side, who did not vote in the Republican primary, for your side having the worst presidential candidate ever is a wonderful show of mental gymnastics.
|
On September 30 2016 23:46 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 23:43 farvacola wrote:On September 30 2016 23:40 Mohdoo wrote:On September 30 2016 23:35 Stratos_speAr wrote:
And xDaunt kept trying to tell us all summer about how Trump was actually a mastermind and was playing the Left like a fiddle this entire election... I think for a lot of people, the idea that someone who really is just a crazy, insecure loudmouthed shithead winning their primary is a really big deal. It really can't be rectified in their mindset that there aren't legitimate problems with the party. The idea that Trump is a mastermind was the only way the existing view of the party could be somewhat intact. I mean, it's a pretty devastating thing. People identify pretty strongly with their party. For certain communities, loyalty to the republican party is also often a family/community thing. People raised to be proud republicans, being told they are the heart of the country and all that stuff, may have a hard time coming to realize things are not nearly as they appeared. It forces someone to either significantly lower their view of their elder family members and community, or find another way to see the grass as green. My law school graduating class this year is full to the brim with Republicans who are very honest about how devastating Trump's nomination is to their sense of politics. Thus far, it seems like Introvert is the only poster on here who matches up with that perspective, though I may be forgetting some. LegalLord, although he's not that much of a conservative; more a contrarian, if I had to put a label to it.
I spend more time discussing the underrepresented parts of what I think about this race because there are already plenty of people willing to talk about it when Trump is buttfucking awful and when Hillary isn't, but few talking about the reverse. I usually don't have much to add to 20 Hillary fanboys singing her praise because they cover it well enough.
I'm left of center, "on average." Definitely not a Republican given the current state of the party.
|
|
|
On October 01 2016 00:13 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 00:03 Grumbels wrote:
Danglars, your posts are becoming utterly boring because you don't even bother to come up with clever rationalizations for supporting Trump, now you're just replying with non sequiturs and vague contrarianism. If you can't actually articulate a proper defense of voting for Trump then shouldn't you start questioning your political beliefs? I'm surprised that Danglars hasn't lost patience with engaging people in here on why Trump may be worthy of support. None of y'all have any interest in listening to what anyone has to say on that point.
I think the only people who are surprised are the ones that gave you both the benefit of the doubt that there was a limit to what you would try to excuse. That at some point you would put the good of the country before party loyalty. But as Kwark said a while ago, we stopped giving you the benefit of the doubt.
|
Two things stick out to me from that - how is the GOP less liked than Trump, and also why are the Dems so much higher than the GOP
|
On October 01 2016 00:19 Nevuk wrote:
Two things stick out to me from that - how is the GOP less liked than Trump, and also why are the Dems so much higher than the GOP
Baby boomers.
|
Kaine is somewhat poorly liked on average. I agree with that interpretation but I'm surprised by it. I really thought people were going to just buy into the most favorable interpretation of him that the Dem party could dream up, just because he isn't well-known.
|
If I were to guess, Biden, Obama, and Warren are likely pulling up the Dem's by association, while there is no one really to pull up the GOP by association.
|
On October 01 2016 00:19 Nevuk wrote:
Two things stick out to me from that - how is the GOP less liked than Trump, and also why are the Dems so much higher than the GOP
I'd say the democratic party has been significantly less polarizing this year. The GOP had a mounted effort to defeat Trump. Don't forget the Kasich/Cruz alliance. That's insane. "Textbook racism", etc. Partisan determination is the only thing keeping this election afloat. People pretending Clinton is the end of the world, as if republicans have never lost an election, is the only reason Trump is in the race. People are remarkably short sighted.
|
Really they should have polled favorability on Boner, Ryan, Reid, McConnell, and Pelosi as well.
|
|
|
On October 01 2016 00:19 Nevuk wrote:
Two things stick out to me from that - how is the GOP less liked than Trump, and also why are the Dems so much higher than the GOP
The answer to both is probably the same. Unriveled obstuctionism, complete inaction on everything from a Republican congress, dumb moves like the government shutdown and trying to defund PP. Repeated promises that they can never deliver on.
Trump is slightly higher because he is seen as 'anti-establisment'.
|
On October 01 2016 00:22 JinDesu wrote:
If I were to guess, Biden, Obama, and Warren are likely pulling up the Dem's by association, while there is no one really to pull up the GOP by association.
Don't forget Cory Booker, dude is gonna play an integral role in the future of the Democratic Party.
|
United States43255 Posts
I'm still amazed that we've gotten here. The McCain war hero scandal was so long ago now it's basically forgotten but it was a huge slap in the face to anyone who has served and we've just all had to move past it because of newer and more exciting scandals. At this point Trump is such a bad candidate that it's actually difficult to conceive of all the reasons he's a bad candidate all at once, there's just too much of it.
To reiterate why McCain is a war hero, in case anyone forgot.
1) He was shot down while carrying out a highly dangerous mission under orders, breaking both arms and a leg in the crash.
2) He refused to identify future military targets and would give only his name, rank and serial number, even after having his shoulder broken and his foot bayoneted in addition to beatings (all while he still had 3 broken limbs).
3) As he lay dying without medical treatment he continued to hide his own importance from his captors, knowing that they would save him purely to use him as a bargaining chip.
4) After they found out about his father being a senior admiral they offered to release him, if he would say that the Viet Cong treated prisoners well. He counter-offered that prisoners should be released in the order that they were captured and as there were many prisoners who had been here longer he would not leave before they did. They counter-offered that if he didn't take their initial offer they'd beat the shit out of him until he did. He refused to leave while other soldiers stayed. They tortured him to try and convince him to become their propaganda tool. He continued to refuse.
5) They then repeatedly tried to trick him into leaving, telling him that he'd been ordered to leave by superior officers and even by the President and that it was okay and that he wouldn't be betraying his country if he agreed to stop being tortured. He stuck with his "nope, no matter how much I want to believe that I don't so I guess you'll just have to keep torturing me" stance.
6) This continued for five and a half years. Nobody would have blamed McCain for breaking under torture and letting his name be used in propaganda in exchange for release. But he didn't. Five and a half years. His body was permanently damaged and he lost significant mobility in his arms.
Trump said:
He’s not a war hero, he was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.
He isn't a war hero because he was captured. He is a war hero because of all of the shit that happened after that. Like how the hell is that shit alone not enough to sink him as a candidate. And yet it's forgotten because it's buried so deep in the colossal pile of shit that is Donald Trump. He's covering up his own shit with yet more shit. But I guess Trump would have made a deal in McCain's position. If he wasn't dodging the draft that is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
