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On November 08 2012 21:05 Solarist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 21:03 vojnik wrote:
if people invested as much time in trying to develop new strategies as they do in whining all over the internet sc2 could be a better game... Enlighten us then oh greatest of great strategist. What wonderfull ideas do you have that no pro players have thought about?
i didnt say i had all the strategies in my mind, but people used to complain about the sentry for a verrrry long time and just stopped and accepted that blizzard wont do anything which is a major design change in this game, do not expect major design change in WOL, try to work with what you got...
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On November 08 2012 21:07 vojnik wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 21:05 Solarist wrote:On November 08 2012 21:03 vojnik wrote:
if people invested as much time in trying to develop new strategies as they do in whining all over the internet sc2 could be a better game... Enlighten us then oh greatest of great strategist. What wonderfull ideas do you have that no pro players have thought about? i didnt say i had all the strategies in my mind, but people used to complain about the sentry for a verrrry long time and just stopped and accepted that blizzard wont do anything which is a major design change in this game, do not expect major design change in WOL, try to work with what you got...
nonetheless the sentry IS a very bad design as discussed wide and abroad quite recently. That a unit can be left in the game with decent winratios doesnt mean it's a good design. However regarding your argument, i have the feeling that the deal with infestors is slightly different. Sentry's can be overcome by usage off higher tech (burrow/infestor, mediavec(partly) ghost). The infestor isnt necessarily really overcome by any tech as it beats both HT and Ghosts in efficiency and versatility in middle to late game.
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This community is somewhat childish -_-". I am glad that Blizzard changed their stance on balance from kneejerk reaction like they did with BF and ghost to be a bit more cautious. Although, I still think Infestor will need to be tweaked in some way but I am willing to wait to see how it will work out in few months.
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On November 08 2012 09:14 AnomalySC2 wrote:
This is a good approach to balance. Basically they're saying, we know that infestor builds have holes or weaknesses and we're just waiting for the community to find them. Please don't nerf stuff you know isn't OP. That said, fungal was changed from its original design, so it may very well be too good. Only david kim and co know for sure.
yeah only david kim and co could know, because so far they have shown an amazing ability to iron out all the annoying stuff and balance problems by continually adjusting bunker build time
im sure people that are playing this game for money or that are playing hours every day and spend more hours watching pros play and analyzing the game have no clue how this game works, its just too complicated. the only persons who can possible know anything about starcraft are browser and kim...
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On November 08 2012 21:20 summerloud wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:14 AnomalySC2 wrote:
This is a good approach to balance. Basically they're saying, we know that infestor builds have holes or weaknesses and we're just waiting for the community to find them. Please don't nerf stuff you know isn't OP. That said, fungal was changed from its original design, so it may very well be too good. Only david kim and co know for sure. yeah only david kim and co could know, because so far they have shown an amazing ability to iron out all the annoying stuff and balance problems by continually adjusting bunker build time im sure people that are playing this game for money or that are playing hours every day and spend more hours watching pros play and analyzing the game have no clue how this game works, its just too complicated. the only persons who can possible know anything about starcraft are browser and kim...
I take it you haven't heard of the pro forum on BNet.
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Erm that main problem is that fungal stuns. If it didn't stun it would be fine.
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What concerns me is that the Development team did not wait to mitigate Psionic Storms and Ghost Snipe when that was considered to be over powered.
Now, not just pros but the entire community is screaming about infestor. The only problem I see with it is that usually such powerful units cannot attack air or have a long cool-down.
The infestor - on the other hand - can attack both air and ground units, can attack in a area of effect and also prevent all forms of micro management (undodgeable spell). A bit too much, really?
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This is what happens when Blizzard listens to the community:
http://www.gamersdailynews.com/userfiles/image/holy_shit_this_is_awesome.jpg
Please Blizzard we need Dinoriders with imba Lasers that can suicide themself by exploding.
Blizzard should just listen to progamers even though people will always be a bit biased about their own race.
I think Infestor could take a small nerf though, nothing big or gamebreaking.
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On November 08 2012 21:31 Unshapely wrote:
What concerns me is that the Development team did not wait to mitigate Psionic Storms and Ghost Snipe when that was considered to be over powered.
Now, not just pros but the entire community is screaming about infestor. The only problem I see with it is that usually such powerful units cannot attack air or have a long cool-down.
The infestor - on the other hand - can attack both air and ground units, can attack in a area of effect and also prevent all forms of micro management (undodgeable spell). A bit too much, really?
Snipe was known to be overpowered for more then 1 year. It was not used often because terran had about 10 of other OP options before ghosts, which were nerfed.
I have no idea who made up the myth about immediate snipe nerf.
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browder knows whats going on with the balance
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On November 08 2012 21:03 vojnik wrote:
if people invested as much time in trying to develop new strategies as they do in whining all over the internet sc2 could be a better game...
I don't think posters on here and Bnet are going to be developing new pro strategies anytime soon anyways. And eventhough pros talk about balance in interviews, they are all trying their best to find new strategies. These 2 aren't mutually exclusive. You can complain and hope for buffs/nerfs while trying to come up with new strategies.
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Perfectly reasonable post & commendable attitude, I fully support this. At the same time, one has to ask himself, how the fuck is it that when people QQ about Terran, Ghosts get nerfed immediately, Bunkers get nerfed, queens get buffed, ovies get buffed. But the other way around, we 'wait and see'.
Show some fkn consistency, at least from now on.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On November 08 2012 21:45 Fr0d0 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 21:31 Unshapely wrote:
What concerns me is that the Development team did not wait to mitigate Psionic Storms and Ghost Snipe when that was considered to be over powered.
Now, not just pros but the entire community is screaming about infestor. The only problem I see with it is that usually such powerful units cannot attack air or have a long cool-down.
The infestor - on the other hand - can attack both air and ground units, can attack in a area of effect and also prevent all forms of micro management (undodgeable spell). A bit too much, really? Snipe was known to be overpowered for more then 1 year. It was not used often because terran had about 10 of other OP options before ghosts, which were nerfed. I have no idea who made up the myth about immediate snipe nerf.
Terran had to gradually weave in Ghosts to get that composition which was incredibly strong granted. Similarly there are Terran lategame comps that are extremely good against Z lategame now, but are almost impossible to get to, like the Raven-centric lategame we're seeing. Terran's uber-comps are good, but so hard to get to that I'm not sure they justified all the nerfs
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On November 08 2012 22:25 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 21:45 Fr0d0 wrote:On November 08 2012 21:31 Unshapely wrote:
What concerns me is that the Development team did not wait to mitigate Psionic Storms and Ghost Snipe when that was considered to be over powered.
Now, not just pros but the entire community is screaming about infestor. The only problem I see with it is that usually such powerful units cannot attack air or have a long cool-down.
The infestor - on the other hand - can attack both air and ground units, can attack in a area of effect and also prevent all forms of micro management (undodgeable spell). A bit too much, really? Snipe was known to be overpowered for more then 1 year. It was not used often because terran had about 10 of other OP options before ghosts, which were nerfed. I have no idea who made up the myth about immediate snipe nerf. Terran had to gradually weave in Ghosts to get that composition which was incredibly strong granted. Similarly there are Terran lategame comps that are extremely good against Z lategame now, but are almost impossible to get to, like the Raven-centric lategame we're seeing. Terran's uber-comps are good, but so hard to get to that I'm not sure they justified all the nerfs
And ironically that terran uber-comp gets demolished by infestors.
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whenever i build infestors they die super fast, i miss every fungal and when i try to pop out infested terrans my infestors walk around like a dog chasing his tail ...
infestors are fine for me. dont fix plx 
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On November 08 2012 22:12 n0ise wrote:
Perfectly reasonable post & commendable attitude, I fully support this. At the same time, one has to ask himself, how the fuck is it that when people QQ about Terran, Ghosts get nerfed immediately, Bunkers get nerfed, queens get buffed, ovies get buffed. But the other way around, we 'wait and see'.
Show some fkn consistency, at least from now on.
Dude, you are either ignorant or a hypocrite. Check State of the Game Episode 37 from 4 may 2011.
It took blizzard 1.5 years to fix all the shit disscused.
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the fact is that infestors are by design boring. it's not fun to play against or watch because a large portion of units will just be stuck there forever without being able to do anything. the only plausible "big play" is by somehow managing to snag a ball of air units or bio and running in banes or infesteds which happens less and less nowadays.
mostly it's just about making their army stand still like an idiot and be slowly whittled to death by never ending broodlings, how is that fun?
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The irony is that Blizzard wanted to make fungal not target air units, be a slow projectile and not root blink stalker (not all at once but they tried each of them individually) before/with the DPS buff. The community rejected all of them and now fungal simply has none of these weaknesses. Now the community demands changes but Blizzard is unwilling to for whatever reason.
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On November 08 2012 23:04 SinCitta wrote:
The irony is that Blizzard wanted to make fungal not target air units, be a slow projectile and not root blink stalker (not all at once but they tried each of them individually) before/with the DPS buff. The community rejected all of them and now fungal simply has none of these weaknesses. Now the community demands changes but Blizzard is unwilling to for whatever reason.
True, but these changes were proposed at a time when Zerg was not performing so well.
If Blizzard were to make those changes now, they would surely be welcomed.
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EPT
