EPTDustin Browder On the Infestor - Page 14
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lpunatic
235 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On November 08 2012 17:38 iAmBiGbiRd wrote: It would be cool if instead of nerfing them/taking away from Zerg if Protoss and Terran had some way of dispelling large numbers of infested terran/fungal growth. If High templar could do a small AOE dispell and maybe if ghosts EMP did something similar i think it would add an interesting dynamic to the game because as much as i don't like Infestors zerg would be pretty fucked without them The problem with such a concept is that the unit who casts the dispel needs to be as viable and efficient as the Infestor with its three very very flexible spells, because you would be disadvantaging Protoss and Terrans. Zerg should have such counterspells too, because otherwise you are locked into "both sides need to go Infestor" tactics. Counterspells seem more in line of WoW than Starcraft and I think most people agree that "hard counters" are a terrible concepts. A "dispel" is exactly that ... a hard counter. So it seems to be a better choice to nerf the Infestor spells ... unless Blizzard gets wise and changes the general movement mechanics (=> too high infnatry unit density) which cause a lot of problems. | ||
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
On November 08 2012 17:26 Rabiator wrote: Infested Terran is simply awesome to tear down undefended buildings and when you are able to suppress your opponents army with Fungal Growth and/or Banelings. Autoturret suffers from the weakness of the unit itself when faced by a concentrated firepower of a clump of tightly grouped opposing infantry[*] AND from the low range of 3 to cast it which endangers the Raven much more than the range of 9 (plus possible burrow) for the infested terran. [*] This is a problem for any defensive structures which are not supported by an army. Yea I know. It's as if people aren't reading my post. I did not say infested terrans are useless! I said they are a bad mechanic, and I think they're personally stupid. With regards to auto-turret, it's casting range is 6, not 3, and ravens can FLY, making them far safer from attack in the right terrain positions. Auto-turrets excel at harassment (like worker harass— something infested terrans are poor at, at least at higher skill levels) or on-demand anti-air. Neither infested terrans nor auto-turrets are units one can expect to be strong against large ground armies such as with colossus, high templar, siege tank, hellion, marauder, or immortal in particular. I'm mostly saying the mechanic is bad, and hence the ability sucky for at least that reason, but also due to the fact it's unnecessary (meat shields which deal major damage are already roles taken by roach, zergling, and broodling; anti-air is already taken by hydralisks, which do need to be buffed though), and sucky for that reason too. On November 08 2012 17:33 vthree wrote: How was it 'evident' when they weren't really in play for more than 1 month before they were nerfed. Zergs never had the time to innovate!!! The exclamation points almost made it seem like sarcasm, but I'm thinking it isn't. When one understand the game adequately one can look logically at the situation and see that no zerg unit can counter mass ghosts with snipe. The closest thing one gets to is mass baneling-zergling , but they don't fare well due to ghosts' extra damage vs light, somewhat high health and range, as well as the fact that ghosts can be paired with siege tanks, planetary fortresses, or hellions. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On November 08 2012 17:57 Xapti wrote: With regards to auto-turret, it's casting range is 6, not 3, and ravens can FLY, making them far safer from attack in the right terrain positions. Hmmm ... looks like the Liquipedia entry on the turret is wrong then. Flying still doesnt cloak the Raven and Fungal still works against Ravens and anti-air flyers are all faster than the Raven plus Feedback/Fungal have a much longer range than autoturret. So personally I consider flying as less of an advantage than the longer range of the Infestor abilities. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16109 Posts
If only they had treated the Siege Tank the way they are now treating the Infestor.... if only. Poor Siege Tanks. | ||
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Destro
Netherlands1206 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16109 Posts
On November 08 2012 18:19 Destro wrote: Browder gets it. How many times are we going to see a strategy come out that is instantly cried about by the community, only for the community to find a way to defeat it. sometimes it takes longer then others. it wasn't so long ago that 1/1/1 was thought to be nearly unbeatable.. They patched immortals and barracks build time. Only then was the 1/1/1 deemed beatable. People seem to love quoting the 1/1/1 when talking about current balance problems conveniently forgetting that Blizzard actually DID patch the game specifically because of that strategy. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On November 08 2012 18:20 Vindicare605 wrote: They patched immortals and barracks build time. Only then was the 1/1/1 deemed beatable. People seem to love quoting the 1/1/1 when talking about current balance problems conveniently forgetting that Blizzard actually DID patch the game specifically because of that strategy. Incorrect, arguably the Immortal buff was premature as Protoss were already in the process of fine tuning a defense. The advent of larger maps also helped. Ironically, as often happens, unintended consequences meant that the Immortal buff had and has a greater impact in PvZ than in PvT. Furthermore, the 1-1-1 still remains very strong, especially on smaller maps. (It would be nice to have Immortals at 5 range, so that Protoss have to set up engagements and micro better with Immortals.) I can't remember any details of barrack build time with that patch, sorry. So, I can't comment on that point. | ||
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Talack
Canada2742 Posts
Thors without energy, not waited for "people to figure it out" Mass ghosts in late-game TvZ, not waited for "people to figure it out" 1-1-1 not waited for "people to figure it out" The community knows when something is OP DB... Common dude : / | ||
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CarelessPride
United States146 Posts
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imPermanenCe
Netherlands595 Posts
On November 08 2012 09:35 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: nice observation, i hated seeing pro zergs just use 1 control group for their whole army, so that their infestors walk into the fight and sit there doing nothing <_> (who remembers Losira vs sC on Terminus haha) Oh, you mean Life in MLG a couple of his games? Luckily he could still win his games where he didn't lose 10 infestors instantly. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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SKYFISH_
Bulgaria990 Posts
because im pretty sure I saw how bullshit the infestor was one month after Z was given a free pass to the late game in ZvT and after they figured that mass infestors+BL with turtling can win them pretty much every ZvP, which was a whiiiiile ago | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On November 08 2012 18:47 imPermanenCe wrote: Oh, you mean Life in MLG a couple of his games? Luckily he could still win his games where he didn't lose 10 infestors instantly. and win even if he does. ------------------------ I find it weird+bad that blizzard randomly does what conveniences them, rather than having a stable way to balance (either OMGPATCH things asap, _OR_ wait it out) | ||
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Fragile51
Netherlands15767 Posts
On November 08 2012 19:00 zhurai wrote: and win even if he does. ------------------------ I find it weird+bad that blizzard randomly does what conveniences them, rather than having a stable way to balance (either OMGPATCH things asap, _OR_ wait it out) Meh, i prefer them finding a way that actually works and makes sense then sticking with the old way that has proven to be terrible ;o | ||
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
On November 08 2012 09:22 sitromit wrote: It's also not uncommon to see 15-20 Sentries early-mid game. exactly this^. Casters play a huge role in sc2, more than just a support unit, dont hate on the infestor, hate on casters. | ||
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CScythe
Canada810 Posts
On November 08 2012 09:15 Jakkerr wrote: took them a while Blizzard continuously alludes to their balancing methods. One must conclude that Blizzard expected the cries of "Infestor imba!" to die out. But since the cries didn't die out, here they are reminding everyone how they balance their game. Balance is the one thing I always expect Blizzard to be capable of attaining. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16109 Posts
On November 08 2012 17:38 whatevername wrote: Yeah except it cant be fixed unless you weaken infesters dramatically, to the point where the unit is entirely redesigned [which means a rebalancing of every single zerg unit] or its simply abandoned, which would also necessitate total redesign. Perhaps that really is what is necessary and perhaps the game would be better off with that redesign. | ||
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Xpace
United States2209 Posts
On November 08 2012 19:04 NEEDZMOAR wrote: exactly this^. Casters play a huge role in sc2, more than just a support unit, dont hate on the infestor, hate on casters. I don't know what's worse; that he may or may not be trolling and redirected two pages of comments to Sentries instead of the topic of Infestors, or that you're actually agreeing with him. Or maybe you're both trolling and we're all laughing sometime, somewhere. Regardless, no other caster unit has the game-changing impact that Infestors do. | ||
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