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On November 08 2012 18:28 Talack wrote:
11/11 rax, not waited for "people to figure it out"
Thors without energy, not waited for "people to figure it out"
Mass ghosts in late-game TvZ, not waited for "people to figure it out"
1-1-1 not waited for "people to figure it out"
The community knows when something is OP DB... Common dude : /
I second this!
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On November 08 2012 19:27 Xpace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 19:04 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 08 2012 09:22 sitromit wrote:On November 08 2012 09:19 ReachTheSky wrote:
I just think its silly that what is supposed to be a support caster is the preffered massable unit. Its not uncommon to see anywhere between 16-24 infestors at once late game. It's also not uncommon to see 15-20 Sentries early-mid game. exactly this^. Casters play a huge role in sc2, more than just a support unit, dont hate on the infestor, hate on casters. I don't know what's worse; that he may or may not be trolling and redirected two pages of comments to Sentries instead of the topic of Infestors, or that you're actually agreeing with him. Or maybe you're both trolling and we're all laughing sometime, somewhere. Regardless, no other caster unit has the game-changing impact that Infestors do.
Yes it does... Immortal, Sentry all-ins would be worthless without Sentries, and whole Protoss early game is based on Sentries. The way Zerg is destroying mid and late game with Infestors, the same way Protoss is destroying early and mid game with Sentries. Same as Fungal, few clutch Force Fields can end the game instantly. Now, the thing that Infestors are easier to use, is different matter, both units are broken in my eyes.
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On November 08 2012 19:55 kinsky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 18:28 Talack wrote:
11/11 rax, not waited for "people to figure it out"
Thors without energy, not waited for "people to figure it out"
Mass ghosts in late-game TvZ, not waited for "people to figure it out"
1-1-1 not waited for "people to figure it out"
The community knows when something is OP DB... Common dude : / I second this!
had to laugh at the 11 11 rax one while still gsl-level-player lose to it right now, and they lose too often. maybe its still OP?!
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well i know blizzard changed their approach and will not balance as they used to (nerf into the ground within less than a month of the first occurence of imbalance)
but now they have taken a lot of time, and should already have indetified the problem and reached a conclusion.
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On November 08 2012 20:06 Naphal wrote:
well i know blizzard changed their approach and will not balance as they used to (nerf into the ground within less than a month of the first occurence of imbalance)
but now they have taken a lot of time, and should already have indetified the problem and reached a conclusion.
Yeah, it's time to nerf marines and sentries somehow after 2 years.
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On November 08 2012 18:28 Talack wrote:
11/11 rax, not waited for "people to figure it out"
Thors without energy, not waited for "people to figure it out"
Mass ghosts in late-game TvZ, not waited for "people to figure it out"
1-1-1 not waited for "people to figure it out"
The community knows when something is OP DB... Common dude : /
Those things did impact winrates considerably very fast though, without being key pieces of the Terran arsenal (except maybe the Thor in TvP). Which is not the case for the infestor.
People complain massively about the infestor because of design, which is something Blizzard doesn't really like to touch on (except for mass thors which according to them looked bad...).
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"The community's ability to develop new strategies is worthy of respect."
...you never respected this ability until the Queen buff. At least be consistent you asshat.
Infestors need to change simply because of one thing, variety. They force you to play a certain way and makes the game a constant repeat of Infestor BLords in nearly every ZvX game I watch. Makes SC2 unwatchable for me. So Browder fix the damn Infestors so other races aren't forced to play certain ways.
User was warned for this post
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Infestors were too good 1,2,3,4 and 5 month ago and will still be too good next month
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On November 08 2012 20:28 Femari wrote:
"The community's ability to develop new strategies is worthy of respect."
...you never respected this ability until the Queen buff. At least be consistent you asshat.
Infestors need to change simply because of one thing, variety. They force you to play a certain way and makes the game a constant repeat of Infestor BLords in nearly every ZvX game I watch. Makes SC2 unwatchable for me. So Browder fix the damn Infestors so other races aren't forced to play certain ways.
You mean like every TvX game is "get creative vs mass marines"?
(btw, marine's a unit that blizzard has acknowledged to be very powerful, but left for figuring, because they didn't want to interfer with core gameplay)
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On November 08 2012 09:14 AnomalySC2 wrote:
This is a good approach to balance. Basically they're saying, we know that infestor builds have holes or weaknesses and we're just waiting for the community to find them. Please don't nerf stuff you know isn't OP. That said, fungal was changed from its original design, so it may very well be too good. Only david kim and co know for sure.
The design where it locks your units in place for 8s? Are you sure you want to go back to that? Can you imagine what Zerg pro players would do with such power.
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On November 08 2012 20:32 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 20:28 Femari wrote:
"The community's ability to develop new strategies is worthy of respect."
...you never respected this ability until the Queen buff. At least be consistent you asshat.
Infestors need to change simply because of one thing, variety. They force you to play a certain way and makes the game a constant repeat of Infestor BLords in nearly every ZvX game I watch. Makes SC2 unwatchable for me. So Browder fix the damn Infestors so other races aren't forced to play certain ways. You mean like every TvX game is "get creative vs mass marines"? (btw, marine's a unit that blizzard has acknowledged to be very powerful, but left for figuring, because they didn't want to interfer with core gameplay)
which blizzard's solution becomes a shitton of aoe.
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What I don't understand is what new strategies are going to be figured out. Infestors are the most versatile unit in the game. It's not like someone's going to discover some incredible new strategy that somehow counters infestors.
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Take out the Infestor or nerf it, and zerg gonna drop to 10% win ratio.. how should i survive a zvz against mutas by not going mutas myself? .. dont tell me to go queen cause you cant pop so many queens also they are useless midgame due mobilty .. to many spores are waste of larva and money... hydras are shit .... so tell me how we gonna survive ZvZ without infestor and how we gonna win a ZvT when the enmy goes like 100000 marines and tanks ... (dont say Banes cause i gonna laugh at you HARD .. play vs good terrans and you gonna know how useless banes are without infestors .. an mutas are atm shit in ZvT) ... and i dont have to discuss with you the imbaness of Blinkstalkers when you dont have infestors 
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Perhaps medivacs' heal should also act as a restoration spell from broodwar, aka heal dispels fungal on each individual marine/marauder it targets.
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On November 08 2012 20:54 NesquiKGG wrote:Take out the Infestor or nerf it, and zerg gonna drop to 10% win ratio.. how should i survive a zvz against mutas by not going mutas myself? .. dont tell me to go queen cause you cant pop so many queens also they are useless midgame due mobilty .. to many spores are waste of larva and money... hydras are shit .... so tell me how we gonna survive ZvZ without infestor and how we gonna win a ZvT when the enmy goes like 100000 marines and tanks ... (dont say Banes cause i gonna laugh at you HARD .. play vs good terrans and you gonna know how useless banes are without infestors .. an mutas are atm shit in ZvT) ... and i dont have to discuss with you the imbaness of Blinkstalkers when you dont have infestors
well nerfing the infestor doesnt mean destroying it's function entirely. Lets say fungal would be altered to reduce movement to 60% (arbitrary number), you still get the same functionality with it. Same goes for ZvZ. I actually believe it would increase the depth of zvz, as mutas are normally completely shut down by infestors. Changing the fungal effect to slow would encourage using mutas micro heavy to snipe infestors even more than it is presently done.
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On November 08 2012 20:54 NesquiKGG wrote:Take out the Infestor or nerf it, and zerg gonna drop to 10% win ratio.. how should i survive a zvz against mutas by not going mutas myself? .. dont tell me to go queen cause you cant pop so many queens also they are useless midgame due mobilty .. to many spores are waste of larva and money... hydras are shit .... so tell me how we gonna survive ZvZ without infestor and how we gonna win a ZvT when the enmy goes like 100000 marines and tanks ... (dont say Banes cause i gonna laugh at you HARD .. play vs good terrans and you gonna know how useless banes are without infestors .. an mutas are atm shit in ZvT) ... and i dont have to discuss with you the imbaness of Blinkstalkers when you dont have infestors
Change fungal so it roots only air and/or armored to deal with mutas and stalkers...as for mutas being bad in TvZ, that's simply not true and it's never been true. Every unit composition is viable for Zerg; the game is based on economy, timings, and transitions, not "I make my ball of stuff and you make yours and we throw them at each other." TvZ hinges on multipronged aggression from both sides and there are countless underemployed tactics for both races. Your post is sensational and exactly the type of narrow-minded, defeatist attitude we've seen from Zergs since the early days of Starcraft 2.
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if people invested as much time in trying to develop new strategies as they do in whining all over the internet sc2 could be a better game...
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So, he won´t change anything until a few months when he realizes that it isn´t just a phase, but a OP unit. Infestor is really what makes all matchups with Z very awkward to watch.
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Hahah as if Browder would ever admit that something as fundamental as the infestor (which has been altered before, twice I believe) needs further balance work 2 and a half years after game release. The carrier-interceptor comment was just fucking hilarious.
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On November 08 2012 21:03 vojnik wrote:
if people invested as much time in trying to develop new strategies as they do in whining all over the internet sc2 could be a better game...
Enlighten us then oh greatest of great strategist. What wonderfull ideas do you have that no pro players have thought about?
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EPT
