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On August 03 2012 07:39 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 07:35 malaan wrote:On August 03 2012 06:27 steff wrote:
There are hundreds of pro gamers that have a incredible understand of the game and its balancing, might be a better idea to turn to some of them rather than a random diamond. Well you would logically think so... Pro gamers are unreliably biased because they play the game for a living, to make money with their race. They need unbiased people on the team regardless of super high GM skill. If you aren't high GM there is no way you can even begin to legitimately balance the game around the professional level. It's just not possible and if what MorroW is saying is true (many other pros have said the same thing), that's probably a huge part of SC2's issues right now. If they took into account pro feedback from the large number of high level players from all races that would help mitigate this bias. Someone who isn't a pro may be unbiased but they are ultimately 100 times more useless when it comes to balance.
Exactly. I was masters random before my computer crashed and I would never trust myself to balance this game... The fact that they are trying to openly recruit random playing randoms instead of privately contacting the top pros is rather pathetic.
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They probably only say "diamand or higher" the same way universities are "impartial to race." Its only to make people feel better.
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On August 03 2012 07:40 oxxo wrote:
What a worthless post and sensationalist title. Read the entire job posting, instead of picking and choosing what you can in order to hate on Blizzard. It's an assistant job with many other job duties.
Exactly. Everyone just wants to hate on Blizzard and see this:
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On August 03 2012 06:25 Blazinghand wrote:
No need to be sarcastic-- we should be encouraged that Blizz is hiring a balance team; they clearly care about balancing the game. Choosing a Random player makes a lot of sense, imo, and sure, diamond league is a bit of a low bar, but it's a start, isn't it?
Skill is not correlated with intelligence, ability, game design skill, or probably any necessary ability for this job. They also said "or higher". So if you're a grandmaster with all the game design experience as someone in diamond, i'm sure they'd hire the grandmaster. You don't need to be great at a sport to be a great coach, and you don't need to be a good starcraft II player to understand the game. I make great decisions when I play soccer, on par with many european professionals, but my touch isn't anywhere near them, nor is my speed and strength, hence me being a diamond level soccer player.
Also, misleading title because they aren't asking players to contribute, they are hiring for a position where the prerequisite is diamond skill level or higher...
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Just remember, just becuase one meets the minimum requirement doesn't mean there aren't tons of grandmasters players that are more qualified so this won't be an issue. It's admittingly a rather low minimum, however, in practice it just won't happen.
I'm all for bashing Blizzard, but this isn't a place to do so. Or perhaps they're implying that the skill level of the developers isn't that great? 
Though the title is misleading, it sure tempts me to try and pick up the game again to ladder. :D
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Having diamond be the required league actually works out pretty well since any mid-masters player could switch to random and still stay in diamond easily.
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It's not like this position is to replace David Kim or anything like that. It's a temp spot for a junior game designer. What the person is most likely going to do is test new maps for weird places where you can wall stuff in in funny ways and test which expansions are siegeable and stuff like that.
In addition, there's a pretty big difference between being able to play the game at high level and being a decent game designer. They're not mutually exclusive talents, but there are plenty of qualities required for design that have no influence on your skill in the game, so the idea that any master/GM player would by definition be better qualified than a diamond level player is silly.
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On August 03 2012 07:26 MorroW wrote:
does anyone here know what this job is about and what he/she will be doing or is everyone assuming they will help with the balance of WoL or HotS in terms of patches?
i have a feeling this has to be more about map making (be it custom or melee maps) than actually balancing the game
its hard to apply to something that you dont know what it really is, which makes me skeptical. not to mention the silly low diamond+ requirement that makes me feel this is something anyone can do ? :p
if they wanted actual balance help they should reach out to progamers which they say they do (they dont, and they barely never did) and if they want mapmakers they should contact our mapmakers directly i feel (those guys have high ambition)
progamers are terrible to resort to for balanced as they are often incredibly biased.
They are rarely properly educated either and are just too much dependant on their race being good to assist directly in balance. Most of the time progamers find their own race the weakest, that just doesn't help..
Many progamers are not even good tactically as they don't need to be. They have teammates and coaches to give them strategies so being progamer might more be mental strength and good execution than a talent for exploring strategies.
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This title is still pretty sensationalist (after being renamed by a mod?). I'm sure they just used diamond as a minimum as to not discourage very qualified candidates (i.e. lots of experience with game design and testing) from applying because they were only diamond.
And really, how accurate are the requirements in any job posting. It doesn't mean a whole lot, it's really just a way for the company to try and control the number and type of applications they get. It doesn't give you an accurate picture of what that job will actually entail.
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
It baffles me that so many in this thread seem to think that Blizzard should use progamers' opinions to balance the game. If they were willing to leave progaming forever, then it could work, but otherwise, it would present a massive conflict of interest that renders their expertise as much a problem as a virtue.
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Time to start laddering as random then :D
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This may have some interesting effects on balance seeing as almost every master random uses 6pool/roach bust/4gate/proxy rax/cannon rush from my experience. Seriously I just assume cheese and win vs randoms at this point. :p
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temporary 4-6 month period
sounds like an intership more than anything.
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On August 03 2012 08:00 paintfive wrote:
temporary 4-6 month period
sounds like an intership more than anything.
Sounds like they need someone to grind new maps for exploitable spots before HotS launches.
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On August 03 2012 07:55 Markwerf wrote:
Many progamers are not even good tactically as they don't need to be. They have teammates and coaches to give them strategies so being progamer might more be mental strength and good execution than a talent for exploring strategies.
So the coaches come up with new strategies?
._.
User was warned for this post
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On August 03 2012 07:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Lol? Some commentators, who have great knowledge about the recent trends in strategy (and understand why they are doing that and such), are not in diamond, let alone play random.
The diamond requirement may seem like a joke, but it's just a low limit. There should be many with exceptions. What if someone is really intelligent but is handicapped or such?
Anyways...
DAMN I WOULD LOVE TO WORK FOR SC2 SHIT FUCK LOL
too bad it's temporary
This is such a massive joke.
The only people who understand or know about recent trends are people like Artosis and Day9, both who would utterly clown 95% of the people on this board if they were to play SC2 full time. Both are quite capable players in their own right, just not as good as say a tier 1 pro from Korea.
There are other commentators who do some research, but their level of understanding will never be on the same level as Artosis or Day9. If you look at sports, the vast majority of coaches are former players that played at a very high level. Why? Because the experience as a professional player is necessary in order to be a coach. Being on a balance team obviously would require a high level of skill; you're not working with game design. You're working on balance. Massive difference.
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so many warnings in this thread o.O
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sounds to me like you'll be testing the hots version of steppes of war, having your poor zerg units blown up by widow mines while browder shouts terrible damage, and maybe get the odd chance of fetching david kim some coffee
im not going to tell the op how stupid his post was, many others have done so before me, but rather apply for the job myself. I'm damn good at getting coffee.
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On August 03 2012 07:57 Lord_J wrote:
It baffles me that so many in this thread seem to think that Blizzard should use progamers' opinions to balance the game. If they were willing to leave progaming forever, then it could work, but otherwise, it would present a massive conflict of interest that renders their expertise as much a problem as a virtue.
I think you are overestimating a pro gamers stubbornness... I'm pretty sure a pro would realize that balance long term is more important than winning short term. Balance means better games, better games retain viewers, more viewers increase sponsorships and tournaments, and an increase sponsorships/tournaments would increase a pro players' earning potential.
If they try to sabotage other races, they are essentially sabotaging themselves by making the game worse.
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Anybody working in the balance team has to play random, in order to be non-biased.
I am not sure if there is even 1 GM random player. And if they were only searching for master-level random players, maybe there would be no candidates. If they get applicants that are high master random, I am quite sure they will be prefered. Better ask too many people and reject the weak ones, than ask to few and have no applicants.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/I5YW4.png)
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