Blizzard Entertainment is looking for a talented assistant game designer to join the StarCraft II team on a temporary 4 to 6 month period. Duties include balance design, multiplayer map testing, and general game design. The ideal candidate will rank at the Diamond level or higher as a Random race player on today’s ladder, and will have an in-depth knowledge of all three races and current strategies for each.
Requirements StarCraft Ladder rank of at least Diamond as a Random race player Must provide character name and ID# for active 1v1 account in the application Able to follow directions, and work as a team Excellent written and verbal communication skills Passion for playing and analyzing computer video games Pluses Prior experience balancing video games Able to use the StarCraft II Editor to create multiplayer maps Able to modify data in the Editor to tweak or create units Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. and its affiliated companies is an equal opportunity and affirmative action employer. Apply Online
Blizzard Entertainment is looking for a talented assistant game designer to join the StarCraft II team on a temporary 4 to 6 month period. Duties include balance design, multiplayer map testing, and general game design. The ideal candidate will rank at the Diamond level or higher as a Random race player on today’s ladder, and will have an in-depth knowledge of all three races and current strategies for each.
Requirements StarCraft Ladder rank of at least Diamond as a Random race player Must provide character name and ID# for active 1v1 account in the application Able to follow directions, and work as a team Excellent written and verbal communication skills Passion for playing and analyzing computer video games Pluses Prior experience balancing video games Able to use the StarCraft II Editor to create multiplayer maps Able to modify data in the Editor to tweak or create units Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. and its affiliated companies is an equal opportunity and affirmative action employer. Apply Online
Hey guy no need to ever make a thread this terrible and free of actual content.
No need to be sarcastic-- we should be encouraged that Blizz is hiring a balance team; they clearly care about balancing the game. Choosing a Random player makes a lot of sense, imo, and sure, diamond league is a bit of a low bar, but it's a start, isn't it?
There are hundreds of pro gamers that have a incredible understand of the game and its balancing, might be a better idea to turn to some of them rather than a random diamond. Well you would logically think so...
On August 03 2012 06:25 Blazinghand wrote: No need to be sarcastic-- we should be encouraged that Blizz is hiring a balance team; they clearly care about balancing the game. Choosing a Random player makes a lot of sense, imo, and sure, diamond league is a bit of a low bar, but it's a start, isn't it?
On August 03 2012 06:25 Blazinghand wrote: No need to be sarcastic-- we should be encouraged that Blizz is hiring a balance team; they clearly care about balancing the game. Choosing a Random player makes a lot of sense, imo, and sure, diamond league is a bit of a low bar, but it's a start, isn't it?
To be honest, looking aside from the diamond requirement, everything else makes sense as a whole.
I honestly doubt this will change sc2 balance too to much, it's not like you get to random to diamond for a season and then they allow you to balance the game as the OP makes it sound like
Nah I agree with this OP completely, sounds like we have some diamond and under players weighing in here with some bias because it's obviously pretty unreasonable (to anyone who knows how bad / clueless NA diamond is because they're a significant ways ahead of that and have themselves once been there) to have this as the qualifying s tandard for a position. So what if they aren't the only and final choice weighing in on something? They're simply unqualified because they actually don't understand the game.
apparently it doesnt require master or grandmaster level to go to starbucks to pick up coffee. its an assistant level position for only four-six months. you honestly think this person will be making real decisions? come on now.... common sense...
I agree with the idea that you need to be Diamond to basically have an understanding of the game. I think Diamond players can even understand higher level stuff, even though they don't have the skills to execute. They understand the game enough to appreciate when you have more skill you can do certain things.
is this for real? a lot of gm players aren't intelligent enough about the game to give legitimate input in the balancing of this game, let alone diamond players. ffs blizzard....
On August 03 2012 06:27 steff wrote: There are hundreds of pro gamers that have a incredible understand of the game and its balancing, might be a better idea to turn to some of them rather than a random diamond. Well you would logically think so...
Nope bad idea. Pro players have a lot invested in their races and while they can give some hints as to what hard stuff they are facing, they are not the best people to be making balance decisions. The random diamond+ a pretty good qualifier since a random player has perspective on all races and diamond+ means good enough understanding of the game. You don't need to be a GM player to understand balance, just know enough about the races, current metagame trends, how micro affects stuff etc which I am sure diamond players know about. EDIT: Also random players will usually be a bit worse in their rankings than a similarly skilled 1 race player.
A game designer is able to learn and understand the game irrespective of skill in playing it.
It's a dumb requirement to be honest. Not because it's diamond league but rather that they're hoping to find a fantastic designer who also spends time playing this specific game.
The diamond requirement makes alot of sense, im sure that blizzard want to aim for a title that competitively viable but also allows bad players to play as any race at any level, because that would maximise the number of people who could play, and the earning from a game diamond players are likely to understand enough about the game to not make entirely stupid claims all the time, and with the amount of tournaments around now, blizzard is probably not short of data on very high level play, so they dont need that perspective too much, and its not like pro are afraid to talk about how under or overpowered a race is.
Just because Blizzard is asking them doesn't mean they won't parse the input for garbage... but if they get resounding feedback from a bulk of RANDOM diamond+ players then I'd say it's worth further investigating that point.
Obviously pro players are going to whine in favour of their race all of the time, and there isn't exactly a huge contingency of pro quality random players. /shrug
On August 03 2012 06:30 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: There is no 100% random player in Master/GM, no ?
I personally know one top 10 master random player, so I'm sure there are many.
I've run into randoms on the ladder, but I'm not very high in Master League. There are definitely Master League randoms though-- Diamond is not the top of the Random player skill ceiling.
That being said, overall the requirements for this job look cool! If my field of study was game design rather than QA I might even think of applying :3
On August 03 2012 06:27 steff wrote: There are hundreds of pro gamers that have a incredible understand of the game and its balancing, might be a better idea to turn to some of them rather than a random diamond. Well you would logically think so...
Nope bad idea. Pro players have a lot invested in their races and while they can give some hints as to what hard stuff they are facing, they are not the best people to be making balance decisions. The random diamond+ a pretty good qualifier since a random player has perspective on all races and diamond+ means good enough understanding of the game. You don't need to be a GM player to understand balance, just know enough about the races, current metagame trends, how micro affects stuff etc which I am sure diamond players know about. EDIT: Also random players will usually be a bit worse in their rankings than a similarly skilled 1 race player.
you also have to realize that pro players want a balanced game. if the game isn't balanced or is completely broken for their race, sure they'll win alot, but then tournaments will realize the game is incompetent and stop endorsing it. the game has to be balanced for it to succeed, which is what pro players want.
Imo, 95% of the diamond players know absolutly nothing about balance. Im a pretty decent player but i still dont feel able to contribute a lot to balance discussions - there is so many aspects to look at when u balance a game. i have some ideas, but i would feel i need to talk to a lot of pros before being able to balance it out. When i see diamond players opinions on the game, its most of the time complete bullshit. what they struggle with is imba, what they use is not. there are exceptions, but those are rare enough to laugh pretty hard about this statement
The ideal candidate will rank at the Diamond level or higher as a Random race player on today’s ladder, and will have an in-depth knowledge of all three races and current strategies for each.
there's nothing wrong with being low lvl in ladder and being smart about game design/balance. rare but there's smart people out there that just doesn't place high in ladder for many, many reasons.
master random fluent in korean and english, blizzard will be all over me like hobos fighting over 40oz mickeye's. only if i was unemployed
Understanding of the game doesn't necessarily coincide with mechanical skill.
Of course, a person who deeply understands all three races would probably make masters with random just off of strategy alone, but they could just be the kind of person that prefers to spectate.
The important thing is that they hire the right person for the job regardless. Getting mad at Blizzard for casting a wide net is really, really stupid.
I wonder how many of the people saying who think diamond players "don't understand the game at all", are masters and think "now I understand perfectly!"
I may only be diamond, but I blame my lack of playing, terrible micro and low apm, not my game understanding... I think having seen every game gsl has ever produced, every mlg game ever produced, and also having watched 90% of the other major tourneys helped my understanding more than a bit >.>
It's like saying some1 can't coach basketball because he can't jump 5 feet in the air and run 100m in under 12 seconds...
Blizz has a game testing team of people who work in the industry, now they are raising the bar and looking for people in the top percentage group of competitive starcraft. It seems like everyone is thinking about this backwards.
On August 03 2012 06:36 sevia wrote: Understanding of the game doesn't necessarily coincide with mechanical skill.
Of course, a person who deeply understands all three races would probably make masters with random just off of strategy alone, but they could just be the kind of person that prefers to spectate.
The important thing is that they hire the right person for the job regardless. Getting mad at Blizzard for casting a wide net is really, really stupid.
The amount of mechanical skill to hit Masters his so ridiculously low though.
On August 03 2012 06:36 sevia wrote: Understanding of the game doesn't necessarily coincide with mechanical skill.
Of course, a person who deeply understands all three races would probably make masters with random just off of strategy alone, but they could just be the kind of person that prefers to spectate.
The important thing is that they hire the right person for the job regardless. Getting mad at Blizzard for casting a wide net is really, really stupid.
with deep understanding of the game and incredibly poor mechanics, its simply impossible to not be in master in Sc2. Everyone in lower leagues feels he knows more about the game than the league represents, but almost everyone of them is just wrong.
Prior experience balancing video games Able to use the StarCraft II Editor to create multiplayer maps Able to modify data in the Editor to tweak or create units
These three pluses alone should weed out a ton of people. But they're only pluses.
I honestly don't feel that any player should be able to have a say in how to balance the game. Pro gamers may know a lot about the game, but they still have bias towards the race they play and it skews things completely. Look at Idra for example for years complaining about certain things when other people were working around them.
Since there's no "random" pro gamers, they wouldn't be allowed to participate purely for the reason of bias I presume.
Diamond outnumbers Masters 10 to 1. If they have any real say in balance decisions then someone needs to get shot. There are many thousands of high masters out there that would be happy to help out.
Oh god. I have never met a Diamond player with any sort of deep knowledge about the metagame. All I've heard is a lot of excuses about a lack of skill but huge knowledge (pretty much always a lie; pro players know minutiae that most "smart" Diamond players don't even know exists) and some regurgitation of builds. Nobody in Diamond understands strategies on a deep level. Nobody.
On August 03 2012 06:27 steff wrote: There are hundreds of pro gamers that have a incredible understand of the game and its balancing, might be a better idea to turn to some of them rather than a random diamond. Well you would logically think so...
Nope bad idea. Pro players have a lot invested in their races and while they can give some hints as to what hard stuff they are facing, they are not the best people to be making balance decisions. The random diamond+ a pretty good qualifier since a random player has perspective on all races and diamond+ means good enough understanding of the game. You don't need to be a GM player to understand balance, just know enough about the races, current metagame trends, how micro affects stuff etc which I am sure diamond players know about. EDIT: Also random players will usually be a bit worse in their rankings than a similarly skilled 1 race player.
you also have to realize that pro players want a balanced game. if the game isn't balanced or is completely broken for their race, sure they'll win alot, but then tournaments will realize the game is incompetent and stop endorsing it. the game has to be balanced for it to succeed, which is what pro players want.
I am not saying they will do something intentionally. Yes all pro players want a balanced game but just being a pro player means playing that race for a huge fraction of the time. This will just skew their thinking in their view of balance. The best thing a pro player can do is tell the balance team what their biggest issue they are facing with their race is. They can't make similarly good decisions for the other two races. One solution would be to take input from 3 pro players from different races but I think a random player with a good understanding of the game and enough interest to follow the scene and learn more would make a better candidate.
On August 03 2012 06:37 Shin_Gouki wrote: Starting with diamond is an ok idea. Master league is too small (what is it about 4.7% of AM?) so I can easily see why they'd recruit diamond as well.
Side note: why only random players?
The same reason they don't take pro whining seriously: to avoid bias, they've said in interviews (I think it was David Kim HoTS liquid interview) that they think pros are some of the most biased players, vested interests and all that.
Blizzard Entertainment is looking for a talented assistant game designer to join the StarCraft II team on a temporary 4 to 6 month period. Duties include balance design, multiplayer map testing, and general game design. The ideal candidate will rank at the Diamond level or higher as a Random race player on today’s ladder, and will have an in-depth knowledge of all three races and current strategies for each.
Requirements StarCraft Ladder rank of at least Diamond as a Random race player Must provide character name and ID# for active 1v1 account in the application Able to follow directions, and work as a team Excellent written and verbal communication skills Passion for playing and analyzing computer video games Pluses Prior experience balancing video games Able to use the StarCraft II Editor to create multiplayer maps Able to modify data in the Editor to tweak or create units Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. and its affiliated companies is an equal opportunity and affirmative action employer. Apply Online
This is old and that job has been up there for ages.
On August 03 2012 06:23 Megaliskuu wrote: Its sad cuz diamond kids are the most tryhard, and possibly the most vocal about their silly ideas .
And you are ? master in NA ? its diamond EU.. TL community is geting really bad..
Ehh EU is pretty much the same skill level as NA give or take a few at the top (top top GM not the middle). I am master on NA and went something like 42-5 before getting to master on my new EU account.
Guys you're all forgetting that this is not only Diamond players. They are asking for Diamond, Masters, or GrandMasters. Stop assuming the worst right off the bat.
Balance should apply (ideally) to all the level and stages of the game. So i understand that they want a player in diamond (or higher). Also, we see this as en e-sport, but it still simply a game for a lot of people, an these people have to be taken into account too.
And think of it, would you ask Flash to balance BW? Some people are so good that they just cover the imbalances with their skill^^.
They want someone with at least "some experiance".
I hate to break it to you, but the people that work at blizzard don't have time to play video games 12+ hours a day to learn every single part of a game. They want someone who is good enough to get to a certain level with limited time and can bring forth their ideas in a constructive manner. They draw on feedback from people who win GSLs and other high levle tournaments in addition to their own personal encounters with the game.
Blizzard Entertainment is looking for a talented assistant game designer to join the StarCraft II team on a temporary 4 to 6 month period. Duties include balance design, multiplayer map testing, and general game design. The ideal candidate will rank at the Diamond level or higher as a Random race player on today’s ladder, and will have an in-depth knowledge of all three races and current strategies for each.
Requirements StarCraft Ladder rank of at least Diamond as a Random race player Must provide character name and ID# for active 1v1 account in the application Able to follow directions, and work as a team Excellent written and verbal communication skills Passion for playing and analyzing computer video games Pluses Prior experience balancing video games Able to use the StarCraft II Editor to create multiplayer maps Able to modify data in the Editor to tweak or create units Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. and its affiliated companies is an equal opportunity and affirmative action employer. Apply Online
This is old and that job has been up there for ages.
Would be hilarious if it was old enough that diamond was the highest league
I dont like how the OP phrased his words =/ made a lot of non OP readers just go "OH they are only looking for diamond players?? BURN BLIZZ!!". It is Diamond +, meaning anyone DIAMOND and above.
It's not BAD that they're gunning to get more people on balance, but I honestly think their best bet is to look up a few recently retired pros to approach for the position first.
On August 03 2012 06:39 Shiori wrote: Oh god. I have never met a Diamond player with any sort of deep knowledge about the metagame. All I've heard is a lot of excuses about a lack of skill but huge knowledge (pretty much always a lie; pro players know minutiae that most "smart" Diamond players don't even know exists) and some regurgitation of builds. Nobody in Diamond understands strategies on a deep level. Nobody.
Oh I am sure there are even masters level players with no understanding of the game who got there by repeating a few builds. But at the same time there will probably be even gold level players who have a lot of understanding of the game by just following the tournament scene and reading up forum threads but not having the mechanical skill or time to place higher. The posting is just a job requirement meant to screen candidates. I am sure they will weed out the bad ones in the follow up interviews they have.
Also this is a really narrow-minded point of view to think that this guy and only this guy will be responsible for balance suggestions and decisions. He will be part of a team, and there will be (and already are) other forms of feedback through statistical and humans means.
On August 03 2012 06:39 Shiori wrote: Oh god. I have never met a Diamond player with any sort of deep knowledge about the metagame. All I've heard is a lot of excuses about a lack of skill but huge knowledge (pretty much always a lie; pro players know minutiae that most "smart" Diamond players don't even know exists) and some regurgitation of builds. Nobody in Diamond understands strategies on a deep level. Nobody.
Oh I am sure there are even masters level players with no understanding of the game who got there by repeating a few builds. But at the same time there will probably be even gold level players who have a lot of understanding of the game by just following the tournament scene and reading up forum threads but not having the mechanical skill or time to place higher. The posting is just a job requirement meant to screen candidates. I am sure they will weed out the bad ones in the follow up interviews they have.
You could give any pro player a mouse only and they would make it out of Diamond with ease.
I'd say they'll recruit for more than just your ladder rank. They won't just say "oh shit, this guy's top in his diamond league, he's fucking pro, let's have him!"
They'll obviously consider masters random better than diamond random, but I'd imagine if there was a diamond player who understands statistics better and won't just say "x is imba, nerf x" and a masters player with no statistical knowledge, they'd pick the diamond player.
I'm sure there are plenty of people in Masters who're willing to apply, but I bet there are few who understand statistics well enough. But they'll still hire a masters guy with good stat knowledge over a dia guy with the same knowledge.
But of course, you could just start hating on their decision mindlessly too.
On August 03 2012 06:39 Shiori wrote: Oh god. I have never met a Diamond player with any sort of deep knowledge about the metagame. All I've heard is a lot of excuses about a lack of skill but huge knowledge (pretty much always a lie; pro players know minutiae that most "smart" Diamond players don't even know exists) and some regurgitation of builds. Nobody in Diamond understands strategies on a deep level. Nobody.
Oh I am sure there are even masters level players with no understanding of the game who got there by repeating a few builds. But at the same time there will probably be even gold level players who have a lot of understanding of the game by just following the tournament scene and reading up forum threads but not having the mechanical skill or time to place higher. The posting is just a job requirement meant to screen candidates. I am sure they will weed out the bad ones in the follow up interviews they have.
You could give any pro player a mouse only and they would make it out of Diamond with ease.
No they wouldn't don't be silly, besides his post was pretty good and accurate imo.
On August 03 2012 06:44 killy666 wrote: Also this is a really narrow-minded point of view to think that this guy and only this guy will be responsible for balance suggestions and decisions. He will be part of a team, and there will be (and already are) other forms of feedback through statistical and humans means.
Not only that, but they recommend map-making and data-editor skills as pluses, which probably means that the candidate would end up also making maps and possibly testing out balance through custom maps.
And the number of Diamond+ random players with basic mapmaking skills and prior game balance experience is probably pretty damn small.
There's nothing interesting or notable about this. This is an ad looking for someone with actual game design experience who happens to play enough Starcraft 2 and already know the game well enough to be in Diamond league playing random.
It's not an ad asking for any Diamond player who plays random to come offer thoughts on balance.
I'm in diamond myself, random on one account, terran on the other and I face alot of stuff that makes little sense. It's mainly execution though.
I would rather put masters as the minimum requirement, but maybe there aren't enough random players. Also some statistical knowlegde is important, as they will most likely be working with winrates. The post on reddit a few weeks ago showed me that I didn't know as much about statistics as I thought I did, , I think this is the case for many players.
Whelp, it's a bummer I only play Terran and Zerg, and between gold/platinum, and I make maps (Ohana).... I'd at least like to help with map testing/design -__-
On August 03 2012 06:30 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: There is no 100% random player in Master/GM, no ?
Eh? I picked up random and got to Master pretty easily, and I've played high master randoms on my main race. Definitely exist.
Sure, you've got a main race, but your other races can't lag behind or you're not keeping that rank. Someone who purely played random would fare even better since it implies they actually practice those races.
On August 03 2012 06:39 Shiori wrote: Oh god. I have never met a Diamond player with any sort of deep knowledge about the metagame. All I've heard is a lot of excuses about a lack of skill but huge knowledge (pretty much always a lie; pro players know minutiae that most "smart" Diamond players don't even know exists) and some regurgitation of builds. Nobody in Diamond understands strategies on a deep level. Nobody.
Oh I am sure there are even masters level players with no understanding of the game who got there by repeating a few builds. But at the same time there will probably be even gold level players who have a lot of understanding of the game by just following the tournament scene and reading up forum threads but not having the mechanical skill or time to place higher. The posting is just a job requirement meant to screen candidates. I am sure they will weed out the bad ones in the follow up interviews they have.
You could give any pro player a mouse only and they would make it out of Diamond with ease.
No doubt they could, but it still doesn't understand what that has to do with understanding balance. Somehow understanding the game has become synonymous with skill in playing their race which is not necessarily true.
How is that worth any outrage other than on reddit-esque style threads?
They want dia+ skilled random players to determine what seems cool as a gameplay idea and even ask them if they found it was strong/too strong in their opinion - big deal?
Is it good to give rather average gamers a chance to contribute to the game they love quite a lot and have a lot of creative input by them?
Yes.
Is it reasonable to assume they will heavily influence the balance of the game and ruin it for everyone due to the fact that blizzard makes them the masters of balance design?
meeting the minimum requirements to be considered and being given the job are two very different things.
considering you have to be a random player to apply this will rule out many masters players and they probably just want to make sure they get a good number of applicants to be able to pick the right person.
On August 03 2012 06:39 Shiori wrote: Oh god. I have never met a Diamond player with any sort of deep knowledge about the metagame. All I've heard is a lot of excuses about a lack of skill but huge knowledge (pretty much always a lie; pro players know minutiae that most "smart" Diamond players don't even know exists) and some regurgitation of builds. Nobody in Diamond understands strategies on a deep level. Nobody.
Oh I am sure there are even masters level players with no understanding of the game who got there by repeating a few builds. But at the same time there will probably be even gold level players who have a lot of understanding of the game by just following the tournament scene and reading up forum threads but not having the mechanical skill or time to place higher. The posting is just a job requirement meant to screen candidates. I am sure they will weed out the bad ones in the follow up interviews they have.
You could give any pro player a mouse only and they would make it out of Diamond with ease.
No they wouldn't don't be silly, besides his post was pretty good and accurate imo.
Are you joking lol? Even I could be Masters easily with just a mouse, let alone a pro gamer.
Keep in mind this is minimum requirement. Just like some schools require a2.5 GPA to apply, but since almost everyone that applies exceeds the mimimum, the entering class ends up having a 3.8 GPA.
Diamond players are in diamond because they don't understand the game at a fundamental level whether they play random or not, so there is no way Blizzard should ever be asking them.
If anything, they should be asking top tier progamers instead. They understand the game better than anyone else regardless of whether they play a certain race or not. There is NO reason why they have to ask diamond level players for help.
It's a minimum criteria for a minimally influential position. They have an interviewing/hiring process. Why limit themselves? They want more input, more ideas. Good for them.
On August 03 2012 06:50 Doublemint wrote: How is that worth any outrage other than on reddit-esque style threads?
They want dia+ skilled random players to determine what seems cool as a gameplay idea and even ask them if they found it was strong/too strong in their opinion - big deal?
Is it good to give rather average gamers a chance to contribute to the game they love quite a lot and have a lot of creative input by them?
Yes.
Is it reasonable to assume they will heavily influence the balance of the game and ruin it for everyone due to the fact that blizzard makes them the masters of balance design?
I don't think so.
This is where everyone is wrong. They don't want any random diamond level players. They want people with game designing experience who also happen to be random diamond + players. There is a big difference between the two.
i am a high masters random player and i already interviewed for the job a few weeks back. They told me they already have an internal team doing what they want, but will occasionally interview people to try find the "perfect" candidate.
On August 03 2012 06:53 blabber wrote: i am a high masters random player and i already interviewed for the job a few weeks back. They told me they already have an internal team doing what they want, but will occasionally interview people to try find the "perfect" candidate.
There we go put the pitchforks down and move on, thank you.
On August 03 2012 06:23 Megaliskuu wrote: Its sad cuz diamond kids are the most tryhard, and possibly the most vocal about their silly ideas .
And you are ? master in NA ? its diamond EU.. TL community is geting really bad..
That is so, so completely untrue. Having played both servers there is no difference except at very top, and even nowadays the top is pretty even due to a lot of koreans on na.
On August 03 2012 06:50 ThePianoDentist wrote: meeting the minimum requirements to be considered and being given the job are two very different things.
considering you have to be a random player to apply this will rule out many masters players and they probably just want to make sure they get a good number of applicants to be able to pick the right person.
Agreed. There are not a lot of masters randoms, and those few might not be interested in the job. So everybody calm the
On August 03 2012 06:23 Megaliskuu wrote: Its sad cuz diamond kids are the most tryhard, and possibly the most vocal about their silly ideas .
i dont think random players are the kids u mentioned, most of the kids u ment, are playing 1 race and complaining about specific matchups. random players are more neutral imho! ( even in diamond )
Diamond is too low, doesn't matter if you have game balance experience, you're not good enough at the game to justify why something is unbalanced or overpowered / overpowered, should be at least masters.
On August 03 2012 06:56 kochanfe wrote: they should be asking pro gamers, because there are even plenty of GRANDMASTER players who don't know shit about the game...
Pro gamers are not going to spend 4-6 months on a balance team when they should be practicing and making money in tournaments during that time.
Hey OP did you know that the devs try to keep this game balanced at all levels? Balanced at GM might not be balanced at Silver level or Diamond level or YOUR level... And who better to know what struggles a Diamond Protoss player has against Diamond Zergs than a Diamond Random player - struggles that a Grand Master pro korean might not have. Crazy right!?
Wow lol. Everyone calling diamonds tryhard idiots then acting like tryhard idiots. This is a special, special thread.
If you can get to diamond as random, legitimately, as in no cheesy stunts and bunker rushes, I say it's worth an interview. Surely that's a better criteria than "Expert forum whiner".
Blizzard should accept balance advice from noone except those currently on top teams in top tournaments. This is ridiculous. They should have no 'balance' employees, only game designers. The positive incentive to make 'balance' changes is messing up the game.
if they ask for grandmaster and random there will be so few applicants. they want people who want this job with game knowledge AND a lot of other qualifications. also notice it is diamond or higher so people in higher leagues will have advantage over diamond "scrubs" like me.
On August 03 2012 07:01 0neder wrote: Blizzard should accept balance advice from noone except those currently on top teams in top tournaments. This is ridiculous. They should have no 'balance' employees, only game designers. The positive incentive to make 'balance' changes is messing up the game.
There are other requirements besides balance design.
Blizzard Entertainment is looking for a talentedassistant game designer to join the StarCraft II team on a temporary 4 to 6 month period. Duties include balance design, multiplayer map testing, and general game design.
On August 03 2012 07:01 0neder wrote: Blizzard should accept balance advice from noone except those currently on top teams in top tournaments. This is ridiculous. They should have no 'balance' employees, only game designers. The positive incentive to make 'balance' changes is messing up the game.
Read the OP... "Duties include balance design, multiplayer map testing, and general game design." Their job isn't exclusively to balance design.
having been through the interview process already, i can assure you that skill alone will not get you the job. And to be honest, they're probably not going to hire anybody in the end. (a while back a friend interviewed for a similar position because they were in need of a Protoss player, but he told me they ended up not hiring anyone)
im hoping part of this reasoning is them assuming their ideal candidate takes their work seriously and are too busy studying to really rank up the ladder, hence thats why diamond is acceptable...im guessing there would be a lot more testing of their balancing skills when they are interviewed
there arent many random players in masters. if you are good enough to be diamond random then you have a pretty good knowledge of the game and you are probably less bias towards any one race.
On August 03 2012 06:27 steff wrote: There are hundreds of pro gamers that have a incredible understand of the game and its balancing, might be a better idea to turn to some of them rather than a random diamond. Well you would logically think so...
except that pro gamers are financially motivated by their race winning more, whereas it has absolutely no effect on a diamond random player. the random part reduces racial bias per tester to a minimum, while the diamond part makes sure thye know at least something about the game. my guess is there probably aren't enough random master leaguers who would be willing to put possibly a long time into trying to balance this game.
On August 03 2012 06:39 Shiori wrote: Oh god. I have never met a Diamond player with any sort of deep knowledge about the metagame. All I've heard is a lot of excuses about a lack of skill but huge knowledge (pretty much always a lie; pro players know minutiae that most "smart" Diamond players don't even know exists) and some regurgitation of builds. Nobody in Diamond understands strategies on a deep level. Nobody.
Oh I am sure there are even masters level players with no understanding of the game who got there by repeating a few builds. But at the same time there will probably be even gold level players who have a lot of understanding of the game by just following the tournament scene and reading up forum threads but not having the mechanical skill or time to place higher. The posting is just a job requirement meant to screen candidates. I am sure they will weed out the bad ones in the follow up interviews they have.
You could give any pro player a mouse only and they would make it out of Diamond with ease.
No doubt they could, but it still doesn't understand what that has to do with understanding balance. Somehow understanding the game has become synonymous with skill in playing their race which is not necessarily true.
I'm saying that you could deprive a pro of most of their mechanical ability and they would still get high rank purely on strats. Ergo, someone in Diamond doesn't have legendary knowledge.
And this is a surprise to anyone why? They're shown time and again that they don't actually care that much about the highest level of play.
With good reason, too--an overwhelming portion of their customers are low level players. If IdrA complains about there being a problem with the game, there's a thread on TL. But if the 90% of the players that are in plat and lower find the game no fun or 'too hard' or something along those lines, they tell their friends and Blizzard loses potential buyers.
On August 03 2012 07:05 blabber wrote: having been through the interview process already, i can assure you that skill alone will not get you the job. And to be honest, they're probably not going to hire anybody in the end. (a while back a friend interviewed for a similar position because they were in need of a Protoss player, but he told me they ended up not hiring anyone)
Im just gonna quote this so people might actually read it before posting. Internet makes me angry
I know gold players with more knowledge about the game than high master, and grandmaster players.
Balance has nothing to do with playing the actual game... In-game is about good mechanics and high speed, and while you need good knowledge about the game, it's about fast decision making, while balancing does not require you to make fast decisions, but you need to spend a LONG time deciding. Also, since patches will be tested, it still lets good players test them..
Is this a legitimate paying job or a "job" where some gamer is being exploited by paying him 200€/month for doing some basic maptesting etc? Sure the "job" is sold with nice words like balance team etc, but what i know from the gaming industry...
On August 03 2012 07:15 Cinim wrote: I know gold players with more knowledge about the game than high master, and grandmaster players.
Balance has nothing to do with playing the actual game... In-game is about good mechanics and high speed, and while you need good knowledge about the game, it's about fast decision making, while balancing does not require you to make fast decisions, but you need to spend a LONG time deciding. Also, since patches will be tested, it still lets good players test them..
There is a 0% chance a player who can't get out of gold has more game knowledge than a GM player.
On August 03 2012 06:39 Shiori wrote: Oh god. I have never met a Diamond player with any sort of deep knowledge about the metagame. All I've heard is a lot of excuses about a lack of skill but huge knowledge (pretty much always a lie; pro players know minutiae that most "smart" Diamond players don't even know exists) and some regurgitation of builds. Nobody in Diamond understands strategies on a deep level. Nobody.
Oh I am sure there are even masters level players with no understanding of the game who got there by repeating a few builds. But at the same time there will probably be even gold level players who have a lot of understanding of the game by just following the tournament scene and reading up forum threads but not having the mechanical skill or time to place higher. The posting is just a job requirement meant to screen candidates. I am sure they will weed out the bad ones in the follow up interviews they have.
You could give any pro player a mouse only and they would make it out of Diamond with ease.
No they wouldn't don't be silly, besides his post was pretty good and accurate imo.
Are you joking lol? Even I could be Masters easily with just a mouse, let alone a pro gamer.
Eh, no. No you couldn't. Feel free to attempt it, though.
maybe they want to take action because the player pool is dropping like a stone?
the game is actually not fun anymore... the fun part is beating a decent opponent, but you can do that with playing online chess - you don't need to practice 12 hours a day to get that feeling.
SC2 balance at the moment is "DO THIS OTHERWISE YOU LOSE!"... there's no way to improvise or diversify anymore, it's not viable. it's all play boring standard or you'll probably lose.
as far as i'm concerned ... balance could not get much WORSE considering there is a designated balance team.
On August 03 2012 07:13 Grampz wrote: Is this serious? this can't be serious...
Dear lord, it is serious.
They're better off asking CASTERS for pete's sake. Specifically day9 who is "GM with all 3 races"......
Fortunately, they're more likely to not hire anyone at all than to hire some random Diamond-level chump.
On August 03 2012 06:53 blabber wrote: i am a high masters random player and i already interviewed for the job a few weeks back. They told me they already have an internal team doing what they want, but will occasionally interview people to try find the "perfect" candidate.
On August 03 2012 07:05 blabber wrote: having been through the interview process already, i can assure you that skill alone will not get you the job. And to be honest, they're probably not going to hire anybody in the end. (a while back a friend interviewed for a similar position because they were in need of a Protoss player, but he told me they ended up not hiring anyone)
On August 03 2012 06:39 Shiori wrote: Oh god. I have never met a Diamond player with any sort of deep knowledge about the metagame. All I've heard is a lot of excuses about a lack of skill but huge knowledge (pretty much always a lie; pro players know minutiae that most "smart" Diamond players don't even know exists) and some regurgitation of builds. Nobody in Diamond understands strategies on a deep level. Nobody.
Oh I am sure there are even masters level players with no understanding of the game who got there by repeating a few builds. But at the same time there will probably be even gold level players who have a lot of understanding of the game by just following the tournament scene and reading up forum threads but not having the mechanical skill or time to place higher. The posting is just a job requirement meant to screen candidates. I am sure they will weed out the bad ones in the follow up interviews they have.
You could give any pro player a mouse only and they would make it out of Diamond with ease.
No they wouldn't don't be silly, besides his post was pretty good and accurate imo.
Are you joking lol? Even I could be Masters easily with just a mouse, let alone a pro gamer.
Eh, no. No you couldn't. Feel free to attempt it, though.
I call bs on that too, didn't a diamond player beat MvP w/o a keyboard on Off the Record?
I encourage anyone who meets these requirements and knows how to properly analyze game balance and produce structured reports to apply for this position. Seems like it would be a pretty good foot in the door into the industry. Unfortunately it's temp work and that means no benefits, but still sounds like fun to anyone who's looking.
On August 03 2012 06:39 Shiori wrote: Oh god. I have never met a Diamond player with any sort of deep knowledge about the metagame. All I've heard is a lot of excuses about a lack of skill but huge knowledge (pretty much always a lie; pro players know minutiae that most "smart" Diamond players don't even know exists) and some regurgitation of builds. Nobody in Diamond understands strategies on a deep level. Nobody.
Oh I am sure there are even masters level players with no understanding of the game who got there by repeating a few builds. But at the same time there will probably be even gold level players who have a lot of understanding of the game by just following the tournament scene and reading up forum threads but not having the mechanical skill or time to place higher. The posting is just a job requirement meant to screen candidates. I am sure they will weed out the bad ones in the follow up interviews they have.
You could give any pro player a mouse only and they would make it out of Diamond with ease.
No they wouldn't don't be silly, besides his post was pretty good and accurate imo.
Are you joking lol? Even I could be Masters easily with just a mouse, let alone a pro gamer.
Eh, no. No you couldn't. Feel free to attempt it, though.
I call bs on that too, didn't a diamond player beat MvP w/o a mouse on Off the Record?
Pretty sure Losira won some games at MLG on the main stage without a keyboard functioning.
It's essentially impossible to play without a mouse.
On August 03 2012 06:39 Shiori wrote: Oh god. I have never met a Diamond player with any sort of deep knowledge about the metagame. All I've heard is a lot of excuses about a lack of skill but huge knowledge (pretty much always a lie; pro players know minutiae that most "smart" Diamond players don't even know exists) and some regurgitation of builds. Nobody in Diamond understands strategies on a deep level. Nobody.
Oh I am sure there are even masters level players with no understanding of the game who got there by repeating a few builds. But at the same time there will probably be even gold level players who have a lot of understanding of the game by just following the tournament scene and reading up forum threads but not having the mechanical skill or time to place higher. The posting is just a job requirement meant to screen candidates. I am sure they will weed out the bad ones in the follow up interviews they have.
You could give any pro player a mouse only and they would make it out of Diamond with ease.
No they wouldn't don't be silly, besides his post was pretty good and accurate imo.
Are you joking lol? Even I could be Masters easily with just a mouse, let alone a pro gamer.
Eh, no. No you couldn't. Feel free to attempt it, though.
I call bs on that too, didn't a diamond player beat MvP w/o a mouse on Off the Record?
I'm pretty sure Mvp won that one. But I strongly doubt a nonprofessional player could get to masters with mouse only.
On August 03 2012 06:30 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: There is no 100% random player in Master/GM, no ?
I know guy who is 100% random, was GM some seasons ago
LgNWhisper is a GM random player on NA
I had a friend of a friend refer me for the job, never got a response from blizzard. My assumption is they are looking for someone with more time, as I am still a full time student.
On August 03 2012 07:15 Cinim wrote: I know gold players with more knowledge about the game than high master, and grandmaster players.
Balance has nothing to do with playing the actual game... In-game is about good mechanics and high speed, and while you need good knowledge about the game, it's about fast decision making, while balancing does not require you to make fast decisions, but you need to spend a LONG time deciding. Also, since patches will be tested, it still lets good players test them..
you're master with 50apm, don't fool yourself. (yeah i was :D) gold players have 0 understanding of the game and are unable to follow correctly a build for more than 2minutes.
On August 03 2012 06:39 Shiori wrote: Oh god. I have never met a Diamond player with any sort of deep knowledge about the metagame. All I've heard is a lot of excuses about a lack of skill but huge knowledge (pretty much always a lie; pro players know minutiae that most "smart" Diamond players don't even know exists) and some regurgitation of builds. Nobody in Diamond understands strategies on a deep level. Nobody.
Oh I am sure there are even masters level players with no understanding of the game who got there by repeating a few builds. But at the same time there will probably be even gold level players who have a lot of understanding of the game by just following the tournament scene and reading up forum threads but not having the mechanical skill or time to place higher. The posting is just a job requirement meant to screen candidates. I am sure they will weed out the bad ones in the follow up interviews they have.
You could give any pro player a mouse only and they would make it out of Diamond with ease.
No they wouldn't don't be silly, besides his post was pretty good and accurate imo.
Are you joking lol? Even I could be Masters easily with just a mouse, let alone a pro gamer.
Eh, no. No you couldn't. Feel free to attempt it, though.
I call bs on that too, didn't a diamond player beat MvP w/o a mouse on Off the Record?
I'm pretty sure Mvp won that one. But I strongly doubt a nonprofessional player could get to masters with mouse only.
didn't losira beat incontrol using only his mouse at some mlg? (keyboard stopped working or something, can't quite recall the tale)
imo diamond is just a place where its harder to just outmacro people and just muscle them out with whatever units you want, and composition begins to actually matter.
On August 03 2012 06:39 Shiori wrote: Oh god. I have never met a Diamond player with any sort of deep knowledge about the metagame. All I've heard is a lot of excuses about a lack of skill but huge knowledge (pretty much always a lie; pro players know minutiae that most "smart" Diamond players don't even know exists) and some regurgitation of builds. Nobody in Diamond understands strategies on a deep level. Nobody.
Oh I am sure there are even masters level players with no understanding of the game who got there by repeating a few builds. But at the same time there will probably be even gold level players who have a lot of understanding of the game by just following the tournament scene and reading up forum threads but not having the mechanical skill or time to place higher. The posting is just a job requirement meant to screen candidates. I am sure they will weed out the bad ones in the follow up interviews they have.
You could give any pro player a mouse only and they would make it out of Diamond with ease.
No they wouldn't don't be silly, besides his post was pretty good and accurate imo.
Are you joking lol? Even I could be Masters easily with just a mouse, let alone a pro gamer.
Eh, no. No you couldn't. Feel free to attempt it, though.
I call bs on that too, didn't a diamond player beat MvP w/o a mouse on Off the Record?
Without a mouse is compleeetely different to mouse only. With mouse only you could beat win almost every game until Masters with a 4 Gate.
On August 03 2012 06:39 Shiori wrote: Oh god. I have never met a Diamond player with any sort of deep knowledge about the metagame. All I've heard is a lot of excuses about a lack of skill but huge knowledge (pretty much always a lie; pro players know minutiae that most "smart" Diamond players don't even know exists) and some regurgitation of builds. Nobody in Diamond understands strategies on a deep level. Nobody.
Oh I am sure there are even masters level players with no understanding of the game who got there by repeating a few builds. But at the same time there will probably be even gold level players who have a lot of understanding of the game by just following the tournament scene and reading up forum threads but not having the mechanical skill or time to place higher. The posting is just a job requirement meant to screen candidates. I am sure they will weed out the bad ones in the follow up interviews they have.
You could give any pro player a mouse only and they would make it out of Diamond with ease.
No they wouldn't don't be silly, besides his post was pretty good and accurate imo.
Are you joking lol? Even I could be Masters easily with just a mouse, let alone a pro gamer.
Eh, no. No you couldn't. Feel free to attempt it, though.
I call bs on that too, didn't a diamond player beat MvP w/o a mouse on Off the Record?
I'm pretty sure Mvp won that one. But I strongly doubt a nonprofessional player could get to masters with mouse only.
didn't losira beat incontrol using only his mouse at some mlg? (keyboard stopped working or something, can't quite recall the tale)
He said his keyboard stopped functioning in the middle of the game, and based on how badly he played that game I'm inclined to believe it, he did lose that game but he easily won the series.
does anyone here know what this job is about and what he/she will be doing or is everyone assuming they will help with the balance of WoL or HotS in terms of patches?
i have a feeling this has to be more about map making (be it custom or melee maps) than actually balancing the game
its hard to apply to something that you dont know what it really is, which makes me skeptical. not to mention the silly low diamond+ requirement that makes me feel this is something anyone can do ? :p
if they wanted actual balance help they should reach out to progamers which they say they do (they dont, and they barely never did) and if they want mapmakers they should contact our mapmakers directly i feel (those guys have high ambition)
If you guys actually read the description, it says "at least Diamond as a Random race player". They are looking for someone who is agnostic to all the races to provide some input, most likely based on internal changes they plan to experiment with. Someone who is at least Diamond would understand the game enough from the perspectives of all the different match-ups to give some useful feedback, without too much bias toward any particular race.
The job description also has the following: Able to follow directions, and work as a team Excellent written and verbal communication skills
This would certainly bar most of you from qualifying for the position.
On August 03 2012 06:39 Shiori wrote: Oh god. I have never met a Diamond player with any sort of deep knowledge about the metagame. All I've heard is a lot of excuses about a lack of skill but huge knowledge (pretty much always a lie; pro players know minutiae that most "smart" Diamond players don't even know exists) and some regurgitation of builds. Nobody in Diamond understands strategies on a deep level. Nobody.
Oh I am sure there are even masters level players with no understanding of the game who got there by repeating a few builds. But at the same time there will probably be even gold level players who have a lot of understanding of the game by just following the tournament scene and reading up forum threads but not having the mechanical skill or time to place higher. The posting is just a job requirement meant to screen candidates. I am sure they will weed out the bad ones in the follow up interviews they have.
You could give any pro player a mouse only and they would make it out of Diamond with ease.
No they wouldn't don't be silly, besides his post was pretty good and accurate imo.
Are you joking lol? Even I could be Masters easily with just a mouse, let alone a pro gamer.
Eh, no. No you couldn't. Feel free to attempt it, though.
I call bs on that too, didn't a diamond player beat MvP w/o a mouse on Off the Record?
Without a mouse is compleeetely different to mouse only. With mouse only you could beat win almost every game until Masters with a 4 Gate.
100% sure a good mechanical player can go to high master with a 4g mouse only. Espcially coming from bw.
On August 03 2012 07:26 MorroW wrote: does anyone here know what this job is about and what he/she will be doing or is everyone assuming they will help with the balance of WoL or HotS in terms of patches?
i have a feeling this has to be more about map making (be it custom or melee maps) than actually balancing the game
its hard to apply to something that you dont know what it really is, which makes me skeptical. not to mention the silly low diamond+ requirement that makes me feel this is something anyone can do ? :p
They didn't say low diamond, they said at least diamond. Stop acting like they're handing out jobs to any chucklefuck that applies. Being an expert at 6pooling used to be the bare minimum to get into grand masters but it didn't mean you were going to be picked up by a korean team.
On August 03 2012 06:23 Megaliskuu wrote: Its sad cuz diamond kids are the most tryhard, and possibly the most vocal about their silly ideas .
And you are ? master in NA ? its diamond EU.. TL community is geting really bad..
Yeah there is a new option available if you want to change servers that allows you to transfer your ladder status. So if you were to go from NA to EU Master = Diamond. Should you choose to goto Korean/Taiwan the exchange rate is Master from remaining servers goto Silver.
You really believe all this? You state it like there is a black and white exchange rate converts your current rank/actual skill, based on where you play.
On August 03 2012 06:27 steff wrote: There are hundreds of pro gamers that have a incredible understand of the game and its balancing, might be a better idea to turn to some of them rather than a random diamond. Well you would logically think so...
Pro gamers are unreliably biased because they play the game for a living, to make money with their race. They need unbiased people on the team regardless of super high GM skill.
On August 03 2012 06:27 steff wrote: There are hundreds of pro gamers that have a incredible understand of the game and its balancing, might be a better idea to turn to some of them rather than a random diamond. Well you would logically think so...
Pro gamers are unreliably biased because they play the game for a living, to make money with their race. They need unbiased people on the team regardless of super high GM skill.
If you aren't high GM there is no way you can even begin to legitimately balance the game around the professional level. It's just not possible and if what MorroW is saying is true (many other pros have said the same thing), that's probably a huge part of SC2's issues right now. If they took into account pro feedback from the large number of high level players from all races that would help mitigate this bias. Someone who isn't a pro may be unbiased but they are ultimately 100 times more useless when it comes to balance.
Diamond's a little low for making balance decisions. Blizzard should make the rule only David Kim has a say in things, I'm thinking he'd talk to the right people. Get the command and conquer and x-box live guys out of there.
As a diamond player I suck way too much to give have a legit opinion on balance, and having a ton of silly conversations with ladder opponents has learned me that it's not a good idea to ask a diamond player high level questions about this game.
What a worthless post and sensationalist title. Read the entire job posting, instead of picking and choosing what you can in order to hate on Blizzard. It's an assistant job with many other job duties.
Lol? Some commentators, who have great knowledge about the recent trends in strategy (and understand why they are doing that and such), are not in diamond, let alone play random.
The diamond requirement may seem like a joke, but it's just a low limit. There should be many with exceptions. What if someone is really intelligent but is handicapped or such?
On August 03 2012 07:27 Leetley wrote: Asking diamond level players? That is one bare minimum requirement for the job. Pretty misleading thread name.
It's a misleading thread in general:
- being diamond is one of the requirements - junior position, influence upon design in a hierarchical structure such as blizzard will be minimal. Probably nothing more than a tester for feedback - requirements are always negotiable - job has been listed for a couple of months at least now. Really freaking old news - thread opens with a negative bias meaning most people here are incited to attack or defend diamond players further
On August 03 2012 06:27 steff wrote: There are hundreds of pro gamers that have a incredible understand of the game and its balancing, might be a better idea to turn to some of them rather than a random diamond. Well you would logically think so...
Pro gamers are unreliably biased because they play the game for a living, to make money with their race. They need unbiased people on the team regardless of super high GM skill.
If you aren't high GM there is no way you can even begin to legitimately balance the game around the professional level. It's just not possible and if what MorroW is saying is true (many other pros have said the same thing), that's probably a huge part of SC2's issues right now. If they took into account pro feedback from the large number of high level players from all races that would help mitigate this bias. Someone who isn't a pro may be unbiased but they are ultimately 100 times more useless when it comes to balance.
Exactly. I was masters random before my computer crashed and I would never trust myself to balance this game... The fact that they are trying to openly recruit random playing randoms instead of privately contacting the top pros is rather pathetic.
On August 03 2012 07:40 oxxo wrote: What a worthless post and sensationalist title. Read the entire job posting, instead of picking and choosing what you can in order to hate on Blizzard. It's an assistant job with many other job duties.
Exactly. Everyone just wants to hate on Blizzard and see this:
On August 03 2012 06:25 Blazinghand wrote: No need to be sarcastic-- we should be encouraged that Blizz is hiring a balance team; they clearly care about balancing the game. Choosing a Random player makes a lot of sense, imo, and sure, diamond league is a bit of a low bar, but it's a start, isn't it?
Skill is not correlated with intelligence, ability, game design skill, or probably any necessary ability for this job. They also said "or higher". So if you're a grandmaster with all the game design experience as someone in diamond, i'm sure they'd hire the grandmaster. You don't need to be great at a sport to be a great coach, and you don't need to be a good starcraft II player to understand the game. I make great decisions when I play soccer, on par with many european professionals, but my touch isn't anywhere near them, nor is my speed and strength, hence me being a diamond level soccer player.
Also, misleading title because they aren't asking players to contribute, they are hiring for a position where the prerequisite is diamond skill level or higher...
Just remember, just becuase one meets the minimum requirement doesn't mean there aren't tons of grandmasters players that are more qualified so this won't be an issue. It's admittingly a rather low minimum, however, in practice it just won't happen.
I'm all for bashing Blizzard, but this isn't a place to do so. Or perhaps they're implying that the skill level of the developers isn't that great?
Though the title is misleading, it sure tempts me to try and pick up the game again to ladder. :D
Having diamond be the required league actually works out pretty well since any mid-masters player could switch to random and still stay in diamond easily.
It's not like this position is to replace David Kim or anything like that. It's a temp spot for a junior game designer. What the person is most likely going to do is test new maps for weird places where you can wall stuff in in funny ways and test which expansions are siegeable and stuff like that.
In addition, there's a pretty big difference between being able to play the game at high level and being a decent game designer. They're not mutually exclusive talents, but there are plenty of qualities required for design that have no influence on your skill in the game, so the idea that any master/GM player would by definition be better qualified than a diamond level player is silly.
On August 03 2012 07:26 MorroW wrote: does anyone here know what this job is about and what he/she will be doing or is everyone assuming they will help with the balance of WoL or HotS in terms of patches?
i have a feeling this has to be more about map making (be it custom or melee maps) than actually balancing the game
its hard to apply to something that you dont know what it really is, which makes me skeptical. not to mention the silly low diamond+ requirement that makes me feel this is something anyone can do ? :p
if they wanted actual balance help they should reach out to progamers which they say they do (they dont, and they barely never did) and if they want mapmakers they should contact our mapmakers directly i feel (those guys have high ambition)
progamers are terrible to resort to for balanced as they are often incredibly biased. They are rarely properly educated either and are just too much dependant on their race being good to assist directly in balance. Most of the time progamers find their own race the weakest, that just doesn't help..
Many progamers are not even good tactically as they don't need to be. They have teammates and coaches to give them strategies so being progamer might more be mental strength and good execution than a talent for exploring strategies.
This title is still pretty sensationalist (after being renamed by a mod?). I'm sure they just used diamond as a minimum as to not discourage very qualified candidates (i.e. lots of experience with game design and testing) from applying because they were only diamond.
And really, how accurate are the requirements in any job posting. It doesn't mean a whole lot, it's really just a way for the company to try and control the number and type of applications they get. It doesn't give you an accurate picture of what that job will actually entail.
It baffles me that so many in this thread seem to think that Blizzard should use progamers' opinions to balance the game. If they were willing to leave progaming forever, then it could work, but otherwise, it would present a massive conflict of interest that renders their expertise as much a problem as a virtue.
This may have some interesting effects on balance seeing as almost every master random uses 6pool/roach bust/4gate/proxy rax/cannon rush from my experience. Seriously I just assume cheese and win vs randoms at this point. :p
On August 03 2012 07:55 Markwerf wrote: Many progamers are not even good tactically as they don't need to be. They have teammates and coaches to give them strategies so being progamer might more be mental strength and good execution than a talent for exploring strategies.
On August 03 2012 07:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Lol? Some commentators, who have great knowledge about the recent trends in strategy (and understand why they are doing that and such), are not in diamond, let alone play random.
The diamond requirement may seem like a joke, but it's just a low limit. There should be many with exceptions. What if someone is really intelligent but is handicapped or such?
Anyways...
DAMN I WOULD LOVE TO WORK FOR SC2 SHIT FUCK LOL
too bad it's temporary
This is such a massive joke.
The only people who understand or know about recent trends are people like Artosis and Day9, both who would utterly clown 95% of the people on this board if they were to play SC2 full time. Both are quite capable players in their own right, just not as good as say a tier 1 pro from Korea.
There are other commentators who do some research, but their level of understanding will never be on the same level as Artosis or Day9. If you look at sports, the vast majority of coaches are former players that played at a very high level. Why? Because the experience as a professional player is necessary in order to be a coach. Being on a balance team obviously would require a high level of skill; you're not working with game design. You're working on balance. Massive difference.
sounds to me like you'll be testing the hots version of steppes of war, having your poor zerg units blown up by widow mines while browder shouts terrible damage, and maybe get the odd chance of fetching david kim some coffee
im not going to tell the op how stupid his post was, many others have done so before me, but rather apply for the job myself. I'm damn good at getting coffee.
On August 03 2012 07:57 Lord_J wrote: It baffles me that so many in this thread seem to think that Blizzard should use progamers' opinions to balance the game. If they were willing to leave progaming forever, then it could work, but otherwise, it would present a massive conflict of interest that renders their expertise as much a problem as a virtue.
I think you are overestimating a pro gamers stubbornness... I'm pretty sure a pro would realize that balance long term is more important than winning short term. Balance means better games, better games retain viewers, more viewers increase sponsorships and tournaments, and an increase sponsorships/tournaments would increase a pro players' earning potential.
If they try to sabotage other races, they are essentially sabotaging themselves by making the game worse.
Anybody working in the balance team has to play random, in order to be non-biased. I am not sure if there is even 1 GM random player. And if they were only searching for master-level random players, maybe there would be no candidates. If they get applicants that are high master random, I am quite sure they will be prefered. Better ask too many people and reject the weak ones, than ask to few and have no applicants.
On August 03 2012 07:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Lol? Some commentators, who have great knowledge about the recent trends in strategy (and understand why they are doing that and such), are not in diamond, let alone play random.
The diamond requirement may seem like a joke, but it's just a low limit. There should be many with exceptions. What if someone is really intelligent but is handicapped or such?
Anyways...
DAMN I WOULD LOVE TO WORK FOR SC2 SHIT FUCK LOL
too bad it's temporary
This is such a massive joke.
The only people who understand or know about recent trends are people like Artosis and Day9, both who would utterly clown 95% of the people on this board if they were to play SC2 full time. Both are quite capable players in their own right, just not as good as say a tier 1 pro from Korea.
There are other commentators who do some research, but their level of understanding will never be on the same level as Artosis or Day9. If you look at sports, the vast majority of coaches are former players that played at a very high level. Why? Because the experience as a professional player is necessary in order to be a coach. Being on a balance team obviously would require a high level of skill; you're not working with game design. You're working on balance. Massive difference.
I don't know about the US and A, but in europe, in many sports, the coaches were often average at best at their sport. The very best ones in football (Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger) have no player career to brag about. Being good at the game is not always a must to be able to understand and solve the game and have others play it out.
GM players, especially pros, are not a great source of balance info simply because they have so much emotionally/financially invested into a single race. There are probably a few objective pros, but I doubt very many.
You need to strike a balance between experience, passion, personal investment in playing a powerful race, and ability to communicate well (which is the most important requirement, btw).
On August 03 2012 07:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Lol? Some commentators, who have great knowledge about the recent trends in strategy (and understand why they are doing that and such), are not in diamond, let alone play random.
The diamond requirement may seem like a joke, but it's just a low limit. There should be many with exceptions. What if someone is really intelligent but is handicapped or such?
Anyways...
DAMN I WOULD LOVE TO WORK FOR SC2 SHIT FUCK LOL
too bad it's temporary
This is such a massive joke.
The only people who understand or know about recent trends are people like Artosis and Day9, both who would utterly clown 95% of the people on this board if they were to play SC2 full time. Both are quite capable players in their own right, just not as good as say a tier 1 pro from Korea.
There are other commentators who do some research, but their level of understanding will never be on the same level as Artosis or Day9. If you look at sports, the vast majority of coaches are former players that played at a very high level. Why? Because the experience as a professional player is necessary in order to be a coach. Being on a balance team obviously would require a high level of skill; you're not working with game design. You're working on balance. Massive difference.
I don't know about the US and A, but in europe, in many sports, the coaches were often average at best at their sport. The very best ones in football (Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger) have no player career to brag about. Being good at the game is not always a must to be able to understand and solve the game and have others play it out.
Average?
You understand that to even be a coach in most sports you have to play at the professional level, meaning you are not "average" by any stretch of the imagination? That or you have to work from amateur levels all the way up to professional in the coaching world, which is no small feat either. Look at tennis, the most international sport of them all. Very few coaches do not have professional experience; the only two that come to mind that are successful are Toni Nadal, and Richard Williams, both who are coaches mainly due to their emotional bond with their player, not because of their technical skills (their players don't need "coaching" they need emotional support more than anything).
On August 03 2012 06:30 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: There is no 100% random player in Master/GM, no ?
tQDante was a GM Random Player before he quit to play DoTA2. LGChobi was also a random player before recently switching to Z. They were the highest ranked random players in NA, both being mid-high GM.
On August 03 2012 06:27 steff wrote: There are hundreds of pro gamers that have a incredible understand of the game and its balancing, might be a better idea to turn to some of them rather than a random diamond. Well you would logically think so...
last time Blizz listens to progamers for balance cough reckful cough, rogue and mage happened.
Not saying WoW arena was balace game, but listening to pro players have made it far worse. Sometimes pro players are much more bias than anyone else out there because their livelihood depends on it. Its better to get feedback from a wide range of players
Also Blizzard is probably not asking anyone for balance or designs, they are simply collecting data that requires huge amount of testers in the higher range of players. They probably have no say to anything except being used as datas and occasional the "fun feedback"
On August 03 2012 07:26 MorroW wrote: does anyone here know what this job is about and what he/she will be doing or is everyone assuming they will help with the balance of WoL or HotS in terms of patches?
i have a feeling this has to be more about map making (be it custom or melee maps) than actually balancing the game
its hard to apply to something that you dont know what it really is, which makes me skeptical. not to mention the silly low diamond+ requirement that makes me feel this is something anyone can do ? :p
if they wanted actual balance help they should reach out to progamers which they say they do (they dont, and they barely never did) and if they want mapmakers they should contact our mapmakers directly i feel (those guys have high ambition)
progamers are terrible to resort to for balanced as they are often incredibly biased. They are rarely properly educated either and are just too much dependant on their race being good to assist directly in balance. Most of the time progamers find their own race the weakest, that just doesn't help..
Many progamers are not even good tactically as they don't need to be. They have teammates and coaches to give them strategies so being progamer might more be mental strength and good execution than a talent for exploring strategies.
not every pro is terribly biased and stupid diamond players wouldnt know a thing about high level play which is where balance matters teammates are also progamers and coaches are usually useless.
regardless I don't see how some pros being biased means blizzard should look for anyone but a pro to advise on balance in any way shape or form. lower league players simply don't know enough about the game.
On August 03 2012 08:14 SnuggleZhenya wrote: Believe it or not, the ability to think clearly about a game is not the same thing as being able to play the game at the highest levels.
That's common sense but it's really hard to convince people of that. It's really hard to convince Bob that Steve understands the game on a similar level to Bob despite not playing it at that level. Funnily enough as an eSport we depend on people who don't play the game at a top level to understand it at a pretty high level for growth.
And as others have said this is for an assisant position. It's not like this diamond player is going to be making the balance decisions or approving them. Whatever the job is for, and it's a temp job btw, they want a person that's at least Diamond level because they feel that's the minimum level at which a person can understand what they need to understand in order to do their job. They also want someone that has some amount of dedication to the game, which you would have if you're in Diamond. On the forums we can act like everyone is Masters+ easy, but most people that play the game are not.
On August 03 2012 06:30 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: There is no 100% random player in Master/GM, no ?
There are. But it's the NA ladder anyway. So skillcap is different anyhow.
I think it's a great idea actually. Maybe that guy(or girl) isn't supposed to just "balance" the game, but help them do so while not losing the less hardcore players. Keeping the game fun even if you don't have excellent control and mechanics. Or look for places where the execution of counters might be too hard to do for a diamond player. Those are just examples of course, but in general what I am hoping for is a balance that works on the highest as well as lower skill levels, so everybody has fun and challenge. I should probably give an example. Its way easier to blindly follow some all in build with zerg/terran against protoss then to actually execute the right building/forcefield placement to stop it. So maybe they wish to equalize stuff like that a bit. Love the idea!
I'm a noob (but watch a hell of a lot of GSL) but I can't see why Diamond players opinions are worth that much? I thought they had their own backend stats engine pulling data for ALL the matches world wide. Combine that with grandmaster / pro opinions as well as DEFINITELY some casters, who know what makes for a good game. but Diamond seems to be going bit low for opinions :/
I think a random player who is diamond+ makes a lot of sense.
Random players especially I feel like wont be biased and they should have some sort of insight into all races.
The fact that the applicant would only have to be at a diamond level doesn't really bother me. Diamond players do have some insight, they might not have the time/will/whatever to improve their execution and mechanics to a master/gm level but that doesn't mean they HAVE to be complete idiots.
Besides, it's not like they're hiring someone to totally dictate the future of starcraft 2 balance, but rather someone they hope could contribute to a balance discussion within the team.
WHY would you not ask pros and GM players... diamond players shouldn't even have a say.. that sounds mean I KNOW but the fate of game play shouldn't rest with them,... should rest with good pros and GM players who know the game more? .... lets ask high school football players what they best thing to do in the NFL is... come on now...
On August 03 2012 07:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Lol? Some commentators, who have great knowledge about the recent trends in strategy (and understand why they are doing that and such), are not in diamond, let alone play random.
The diamond requirement may seem like a joke, but it's just a low limit. There should be many with exceptions. What if someone is really intelligent but is handicapped or such?
Anyways...
DAMN I WOULD LOVE TO WORK FOR SC2 SHIT FUCK LOL
too bad it's temporary
This is such a massive joke.
The only people who understand or know about recent trends are people like Artosis and Day9, both who would utterly clown 95% of the people on this board if they were to play SC2 full time. Both are quite capable players in their own right, just not as good as say a tier 1 pro from Korea.
There are other commentators who do some research, but their level of understanding will never be on the same level as Artosis or Day9. If you look at sports, the vast majority of coaches are former players that played at a very high level. Why? Because the experience as a professional player is necessary in order to be a coach. Being on a balance team obviously would require a high level of skill; you're not working with game design. You're working on balance. Massive difference.
I don't know about the US and A, but in europe, in many sports, the coaches were often average at best at their sport. The very best ones in football (Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger) have no player career to brag about. Being good at the game is not always a must to be able to understand and solve the game and have others play it out.
Average?
You understand that to even be a coach in most sports you have to play at the professional level, meaning you are not "average" by any stretch of the imagination? That or you have to work from amateur levels all the way up to professional in the coaching world, which is no small feat either. Look at tennis, the most international sport of them all. Very few coaches do not have professional experience; the only two that come to mind that are successful are Toni Nadal, and Richard Williams, both who are coaches mainly due to their emotional bond with their player, not because of their technical skills (their players don't need "coaching" they need emotional support more than anything).
Professional as in they made money, hell people in masters would've made money if this was as big as football. They were not even close to being kings of the hill.
i didn't play 1v1 for over a year, played maybe 10 team games in the last 18 weeks or so, and decided to queue up for 1v1 yesterday. i stomped this zerg and he rage quit, he was top 8 diamond.
i thought diamond was the new masters, but i guess not
Few famous wine critics are also winemakers, most famous food critics have never owned restaurants, the biggest baseball stats junkies (including this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball) are probably terrible at the game, music writers/critics do not have recording contracts, etc etc etc
This idea that the top players are the best for balance info doesn't mesh at all with what makes a good analyst/critic in every single other aspect of life. Those are the facts, and the community will eventually have to come to terms with this.
Childish thread. May I remind you that they are not looking for a consultant to sit on a high council to educate and enlighten blizzard about game design and balance, but for some guy who is able to test things out with diamond level skill and report his results. To do that, he neither needs to be amazingly intelligent nor amazingly skilled. He just needs to be able to test things out with diamond level skill. Do you also freak out when someone who just finished school gets a job at a publishing house because you fear that it will be him who decides what gets published from then on?
On August 03 2012 08:37 worldsnap wrote: Few famous wine critics are also winemakers, most famous food critics have never owned restaurants, the biggest baseball stats junkies (including this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball) are probably terrible at the game, music writers/critics do not have recording contracts, etc etc etc
This idea that the top players are the best for balance info doesn't mesh at all with what makes a good analyst/critic in every single other aspect of life. Those are the facts, and the community will eventually have to come to terms with this.
Good luck being a music critic if you don't know anything about composition.
On August 03 2012 07:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Lol? Some commentators, who have great knowledge about the recent trends in strategy (and understand why they are doing that and such), are not in diamond, let alone play random.
The diamond requirement may seem like a joke, but it's just a low limit. There should be many with exceptions. What if someone is really intelligent but is handicapped or such?
Anyways...
DAMN I WOULD LOVE TO WORK FOR SC2 SHIT FUCK LOL
too bad it's temporary
This is such a massive joke.
The only people who understand or know about recent trends are people like Artosis and Day9, both who would utterly clown 95% of the people on this board if they were to play SC2 full time. Both are quite capable players in their own right, just not as good as say a tier 1 pro from Korea.
There are other commentators who do some research, but their level of understanding will never be on the same level as Artosis or Day9. If you look at sports, the vast majority of coaches are former players that played at a very high level. Why? Because the experience as a professional player is necessary in order to be a coach. Being on a balance team obviously would require a high level of skill; you're not working with game design. You're working on balance. Massive difference.
I don't know about the US and A, but in europe, in many sports, the coaches were often average at best at their sport. The very best ones in football (Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger) have no player career to brag about. Being good at the game is not always a must to be able to understand and solve the game and have others play it out.
Average?
You understand that to even be a coach in most sports you have to play at the professional level, meaning you are not "average" by any stretch of the imagination? That or you have to work from amateur levels all the way up to professional in the coaching world, which is no small feat either. Look at tennis, the most international sport of them all. Very few coaches do not have professional experience; the only two that come to mind that are successful are Toni Nadal, and Richard Williams, both who are coaches mainly due to their emotional bond with their player, not because of their technical skills (their players don't need "coaching" they need emotional support more than anything).
Professional as in they made money, hell people in masters would've made money if this was as big as football. They were not even close to being kings of the hill.
To be a professional player in tennis, you have an ATP point. That would put you in an elite category of like top 4000-5000 people in the world. That means out of all the tennis players out there, you are better than every single one except like .0001% of the population of the damn world.
It's a joke to believe that Coaches that have professional experience are bad players. They would kick your teeth in even at their age in their respective sport.
On August 03 2012 08:37 worldsnap wrote: Few famous wine critics are also winemakers, most famous food critics have never owned restaurants, the biggest baseball stats junkies (including this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball) are probably terrible at the game, music writers/critics do not have recording contracts, etc etc etc
This idea that the top players are the best for balance info doesn't mesh at all with what makes a good analyst/critic in every single other aspect of life. Those are the facts, and the community will eventually have to come to terms with this.
Good luck being a music critic if you don't know anything about composition.
I don't think even 10% of all music critics knows the intricacies of composition let alone have a major in music.
On August 03 2012 08:31 Cabinet Sanchez wrote: I'm a noob (but watch a hell of a lot of GSL) but I can't see why Diamond players opinions are worth that much? I thought they had their own backend stats engine pulling data for ALL the matches world wide. Combine that with grandmaster / pro opinions as well as DEFINITELY some casters, who know what makes for a good game. but Diamond seems to be going bit low for opinions :/
Diamond isn't the only prerequisite, its simply the only one the OP put in bold. The main prerequisite stated was that they "...have an in-depth knowledge of all three races and current strategies for each." I feel like Diamond was only added as a very loose requirement to somewhat minimize the amount of applicants.
Personally, I think they should have stated Master instead. Not saying that's because Master's players have a better understanding of the game than everyone below them (hell, I bet I'd have a better understanding of matchups and metagame than a lot of Masters players), just because there's already going to be a ton of GM/Masters Random's applying, there's no need to extend that down to Diamond imo.
Also, its not like this position is Lead Balance Design or anything, I think they're just looking for a player who knows the MU's and meta inside and out and can contribute to their current discussion, perhaps even offering a different perspective.
I think random players that are atleast HIGH diamond.
just to leave some room for those who float between... but i like the idea of it, like asking the community and all but i feel like only 2 types of dia players exsist. Inactive play some games here and there and stay.. or super duper try hard... tryhards have the imba personaility usually
On August 03 2012 08:31 Cabinet Sanchez wrote: I'm a noob (but watch a hell of a lot of GSL) but I can't see why Diamond players opinions are worth that much? I thought they had their own backend stats engine pulling data for ALL the matches world wide. Combine that with grandmaster / pro opinions as well as DEFINITELY some casters, who know what makes for a good game. but Diamond seems to be going bit low for opinions :/
Diamond isn't the only prerequisite, its simply the only one the OP put in bold. The main prerequisite stated was that they "...have an in-depth knowledge of all three races and current strategies for each." I feel like Diamond was only added as a very loose requirement to somewhat minimize the amount of applicants.
Really? The main prerequisite as far as I can see is being a talented game designer, with secondary emphasis being on knowledge of the game at this point int time.
On August 03 2012 08:49 Kenpachi wrote: the other requirements are pretty legitimate. why are people qqing
Because that's what this community loves to do. The title and content of the OP were incorrect and the only intention was to to provoke people to complain about Blizzard and argue about ladder position vs game knowledge.
On August 03 2012 07:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Lol? Some commentators, who have great knowledge about the recent trends in strategy (and understand why they are doing that and such), are not in diamond, let alone play random.
The diamond requirement may seem like a joke, but it's just a low limit. There should be many with exceptions. What if someone is really intelligent but is handicapped or such?
Anyways...
DAMN I WOULD LOVE TO WORK FOR SC2 SHIT FUCK LOL
too bad it's temporary
This is such a massive joke.
The only people who understand or know about recent trends are people like Artosis and Day9, both who would utterly clown 95% of the people on this board if they were to play SC2 full time. Both are quite capable players in their own right, just not as good as say a tier 1 pro from Korea.
There are other commentators who do some research, but their level of understanding will never be on the same level as Artosis or Day9. If you look at sports, the vast majority of coaches are former players that played at a very high level. Why? Because the experience as a professional player is necessary in order to be a coach. Being on a balance team obviously would require a high level of skill; you're not working with game design. You're working on balance. Massive difference.
I don't know about the US and A, but in europe, in many sports, the coaches were often average at best at their sport. The very best ones in football (Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger) have no player career to brag about. Being good at the game is not always a must to be able to understand and solve the game and have others play it out.
Average?
You understand that to even be a coach in most sports you have to play at the professional level, meaning you are not "average" by any stretch of the imagination? That or you have to work from amateur levels all the way up to professional in the coaching world, which is no small feat either. Look at tennis, the most international sport of them all. Very few coaches do not have professional experience; the only two that come to mind that are successful are Toni Nadal, and Richard Williams, both who are coaches mainly due to their emotional bond with their player, not because of their technical skills (their players don't need "coaching" they need emotional support more than anything).
Yeah and the position is some temp job. You would have a point if it was like "Head of Balancing" or some other such top position, but it's not.
On August 03 2012 08:31 Cabinet Sanchez wrote: I'm a noob (but watch a hell of a lot of GSL) but I can't see why Diamond players opinions are worth that much? I thought they had their own backend stats engine pulling data for ALL the matches world wide. Combine that with grandmaster / pro opinions as well as DEFINITELY some casters, who know what makes for a good game. but Diamond seems to be going bit low for opinions :/
Diamond isn't the only prerequisite, its simply the only one the OP put in bold. The main prerequisite stated was that they "...have an in-depth knowledge of all three races and current strategies for each." I feel like Diamond was only added as a very loose requirement to somewhat minimize the amount of applicants.
Really? The main prerequisite as far as I can see is being a talented game designer, with secondary emphasis being on knowledge of the game at this point int time.
I was more referring to the game balance side of the position, rather than the position in its entirety. My fault for not clarifying.
On August 03 2012 08:49 Kenpachi wrote: the other requirements are pretty legitimate. why are people qqing
Because having dedicated balance guys ruins the game and takes focus away from game design itself.
Interesting point. As someone who doesn't know a lot about video game development, I don't know much about what happens behind the scenes. What would you consider as the best alternative considering both aspects you mention are equally as important.
Maybe they're just trying to get an opinion from those players. You can't get one from the internet, with everyone trying to make their ego bigger saying they're masters or grandmasters. If you say you're diamond ranked on the internet, everyone just shuts you down. 80% of the people won't even read past your first sentence if you say you're not masters.
Blizzard should design the game for the OP. That would be a sure fire way to ensure success.1 angry person is always more representative of a million players than a group of people who by definition are in the top 10% of the player base in terms of skill and dedication.
The ideal candidate will rank at the Diamond level or higher as a Random race player on today’s ladder, and will have an in-depth knowledge of all three races and current strategies for each. -rank at the Diamond level or higher, have an in-depth knowledge of all three races -Diamond level, in-depth knowledge of all three races -Diamond, knowledge
Bahaha no but really, funny that they are willing to employ someone to assist with balance when there are dozens of pro's who would give their advice for free to help create a better game. I wonder what strange individual will apply for and score this job.
On August 03 2012 06:27 steff wrote: There are hundreds of pro gamers that have a incredible understand of the game and its balancing, might be a better idea to turn to some of them rather than a random diamond. Well you would logically think so...
Hundreds of progamers who would be so heavily subject to racial bias. "I have an opportunity here to give myself an easier time", they may be tempted to take that opportunity.
I'm willing to bet there are current members on the balance team that aren't Master's or GM.
And I'm sure there will be applicants with previous game design experience and in higher leagues so it's not like Blizzard is hiring some random 16 year old diamond player. Have any of you even applied for a job? Companies don't hire applicants that barely meet job requirements over more experienced people.
SMH at everyone downplaying how hard it is to be in diamond as randon... you guys do realize it's a lot harder than focusing on one race right?
And I bet a lot of those comments come from self entitled master players or something like that. Well sorry, but you're probably not as good as those random diamonds, both when it comes to the game and certainly when it comes to opinion on balance.
There's always a lot of this ridiculous "if you're not top GM you suck" sentiment on this site, but this is really silly.
On August 03 2012 07:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Lol? Some commentators, who have great knowledge about the recent trends in strategy (and understand why they are doing that and such), are not in diamond, let alone play random.
The diamond requirement may seem like a joke, but it's just a low limit. There should be many with exceptions. What if someone is really intelligent but is handicapped or such?
Anyways...
DAMN I WOULD LOVE TO WORK FOR SC2 SHIT FUCK LOL
too bad it's temporary
This is such a massive joke.
The only people who understand or know about recent trends are people like Artosis and Day9, both who would utterly clown 95% of the people on this board if they were to play SC2 full time. Both are quite capable players in their own right, just not as good as say a tier 1 pro from Korea.
There are other commentators who do some research, but their level of understanding will never be on the same level as Artosis or Day9. If you look at sports, the vast majority of coaches are former players that played at a very high level. Why? Because the experience as a professional player is necessary in order to be a coach. Being on a balance team obviously would require a high level of skill; you're not working with game design. You're working on balance. Massive difference.
I don't know about the US and A, but in europe, in many sports, the coaches were often average at best at their sport. The very best ones in football (Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger) have no player career to brag about. Being good at the game is not always a must to be able to understand and solve the game and have others play it out.
Average?
You understand that to even be a coach in most sports you have to play at the professional level, meaning you are not "average" by any stretch of the imagination? That or you have to work from amateur levels all the way up to professional in the coaching world, which is no small feat either. Look at tennis, the most international sport of them all. Very few coaches do not have professional experience; the only two that come to mind that are successful are Toni Nadal, and Richard Williams, both who are coaches mainly due to their emotional bond with their player, not because of their technical skills (their players don't need "coaching" they need emotional support more than anything).
Professional as in they made money, hell people in masters would've made money if this was as big as football. They were not even close to being kings of the hill.
To be a professional player in tennis, you have an ATP point. That would put you in an elite category of like top 4000-5000 people in the world. That means out of all the tennis players out there, you are better than every single one except like .0001% of the population of the damn world.
It's a joke to believe that Coaches that have professional experience are bad players. They would kick your teeth in even at their age in their respective sport.
yah, and a diamond player would kick the the teeth in of every single person except like .0001% of the population of the damn world.
I'll be honest, I came into this thread expecting to skim through it because the sensationalist title really killed the original post for me. However, there wasn't any original post to skim =(.
On August 03 2012 07:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Lol? Some commentators, who have great knowledge about the recent trends in strategy (and understand why they are doing that and such), are not in diamond, let alone play random.
The diamond requirement may seem like a joke, but it's just a low limit. There should be many with exceptions. What if someone is really intelligent but is handicapped or such?
Anyways...
DAMN I WOULD LOVE TO WORK FOR SC2 SHIT FUCK LOL
too bad it's temporary
This is such a massive joke.
The only people who understand or know about recent trends are people like Artosis and Day9, both who would utterly clown 95% of the people on this board if they were to play SC2 full time. Both are quite capable players in their own right, just not as good as say a tier 1 pro from Korea.
There are other commentators who do some research, but their level of understanding will never be on the same level as Artosis or Day9. If you look at sports, the vast majority of coaches are former players that played at a very high level. Why? Because the experience as a professional player is necessary in order to be a coach. Being on a balance team obviously would require a high level of skill; you're not working with game design. You're working on balance. Massive difference.
I don't know about the US and A, but in europe, in many sports, the coaches were often average at best at their sport. The very best ones in football (Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger) have no player career to brag about. Being good at the game is not always a must to be able to understand and solve the game and have others play it out.
Average?
You understand that to even be a coach in most sports you have to play at the professional level, meaning you are not "average" by any stretch of the imagination? That or you have to work from amateur levels all the way up to professional in the coaching world, which is no small feat either. Look at tennis, the most international sport of them all. Very few coaches do not have professional experience; the only two that come to mind that are successful are Toni Nadal, and Richard Williams, both who are coaches mainly due to their emotional bond with their player, not because of their technical skills (their players don't need "coaching" they need emotional support more than anything).
Professional as in they made money, hell people in masters would've made money if this was as big as football. They were not even close to being kings of the hill.
To be a professional player in tennis, you have an ATP point. That would put you in an elite category of like top 4000-5000 people in the world. That means out of all the tennis players out there, you are better than every single one except like .0001% of the population of the damn world.
It's a joke to believe that Coaches that have professional experience are bad players. They would kick your teeth in even at their age in their respective sport.
yah, and a diamond player would kick the the teeth in of every single person except like .0001% of the population of the damn world.
Diamond is top 20% of the current population of players playing the game. That's not anywhere near close to an ATP pro.
Well, I live in Irvine and am looking for a job. I can also get to masters as random in a few days if I ladder [MMR reset when I was masters in season 3]. Maybe I'll apply.
Problem is I don't actually know much about any match ups besides army compositions, since I got there on my mechanics alone...
The OP's title is too ignorant and misleading, Blizzard is asking for AT LEAST Diamond which means this is barely a minimum requirement for recruiting rather than an actual standard. I doubt if any Random Diamond player will ever make it into the team.
Pretty amusing how much people shit on Blizzard for "bad balancing" when they've created three races with an insane variety of timings, for games that can go on for over 30 minutes, over a dozen units per race, etc. where there are somewhat standard builds but still a wide array of potential stylistic choices. Even if Brood War and other RTS's provided the template for this kind of game it's still impressive how good the game actually is. People act like this is somehow easy to do, then just whine incessantly when something seems remotely a bit too strong at a specific point of the game even though the metagame tends to sort itself out. This is clearly an attempt to belittle Blizzard for some kind of "low standards of designers" when I doubt they're trying to replace David Kim with a low diamond player.
I don't know about blizzard's decision on this. You can get into diamond as a random player by doing 1base allins or 2base timings each game and that doesn't really prove that you are knowledgeable enough to balance the game.
It says a least a diamond player. That is like when they say at least 1-2 years experience, but they hire the guy with 5 years experience and a masters degree. The minimum requirements to apply are not the requirements to get the job.
Well, obviously you don't need to be good at the game to have a brilliant understanding of it. But at the same time being good at it doesn't equate to understanding it.
On August 03 2012 09:54 sjschmidt93 wrote: Well, obviously you don't need to be good at the game to have a brilliant understanding of it. But at the same time being good at it doesn't equate to understanding it.
Or any ability to write well, work with a team or convey ideas clearly.
On August 03 2012 09:43 Heavenlee wrote: Pretty amusing how much people shit on Blizzard for "bad balancing" when they've created three races with an insane variety of timings, for games that can go on for over 30 minutes, over a dozen units per race, etc. where there are somewhat standard builds but still a wide array of potential stylistic choices. Even if Brood War and other RTS's provided the template for this kind of game it's still impressive how good the game actually is. People act like this is somehow easy to do, then just whine incessantly when something seems remotely a bit too strong at a specific point of the game even though the metagame tends to sort itself out. This is clearly an attempt to belittle Blizzard for some kind of "low standards of designers" when I doubt they're trying to replace David Kim with a low diamond player.
People, I've learnt, and gamers in particular, are brutally critical about pretty much anything. Especially when under the cover of internet anonymity. People like to disregard other people's efforts without knowing anything at all about how much work it takes to create something.
Which is why forum discussions should always be taken with a grain of salt.
How can anyone who has ever applied for anything take this as "SC2 is now balanced by random diamonds"? The people getting jobs/scholarships/into college are never the ones who meet the bare minimum criteria. They're the ones that meet and far exceed the criteria. Not to mention other things they're looking for are "Prior experience balancing video games" and a ton of other things that actually WOULD qualify you to be an assistant game designer. Not to mention the job only includes that in a handful of other job duties, and that the job lasts 4-6 months. So they're obviously not hiring someone to take over balancing the game all by themselves.
Seriously, this is like reddit-level getting upset over nothing.
On August 03 2012 08:49 Kenpachi wrote: the other requirements are pretty legitimate. why are people qqing
Because having dedicated balance guys ruins the game and takes focus away from game design itself.
But the job ISN'T as a "dedicated balance guy." It's as an assistant game designer.
Blizzard Entertainment is looking for a talented assistant game designer
Balance is just one part of the job, as it should be. It even says in the job post that you'll also be involved in mapmaking and general game design. This is NOT a dedicated balancing job. It's a whole bunch of game design activities that the candidate will be an assistant to.
If people read the entire job posting instead of jumping to conclusions from the title and a few bolded parts of the posting, then there would be much less misunderstanding on what this job entails.
On August 03 2012 09:48 EdenPLusDucky wrote: I don't know about blizzard's decision on this. You can get into diamond as a random player by doing 1base allins or 2base timings each game and that doesn't really prove that you are knowledgeable enough to balance the game.
Fortunately there's more to the hiring process than resume. I imagine a random diamond all-iner's interview will go like this:
Blizz: What's an area that you think is a balance problem based on your game experience? n00b: PvP is too coin-flippy (he only says this because he was mad about the GSL finals, not from personal experience). Blizz: Ok, what's your normal PvP strategy to get around the coin-flippiness. n00b: Um, I find cannon-rush to be a good all-around opening (cannon rushes every game). Blizz: Thank you for your time, please remember to get your parking validated at the front desk.
Seriously, imagine the rants and venting about frustrations you have with your friends over this game. And how fast you can tell if your friend is blowing off steam or raving nonsense (arghargh! Terran bulidings shouldn't fly that's so stupid!!!!). That's how the interview will go down. I wouldn't be surprised if they asked to see some replays too, just to see that people really know the matchups and how hard some strats are to pull off.
On August 03 2012 07:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Lol? Some commentators, who have great knowledge about the recent trends in strategy (and understand why they are doing that and such), are not in diamond, let alone play random.
The diamond requirement may seem like a joke, but it's just a low limit. There should be many with exceptions. What if someone is really intelligent but is handicapped or such?
Anyways...
DAMN I WOULD LOVE TO WORK FOR SC2 SHIT FUCK LOL
too bad it's temporary
This is such a massive joke.
The only people who understand or know about recent trends are people like Artosis and Day9, both who would utterly clown 95% of the people on this board if they were to play SC2 full time. Both are quite capable players in their own right, just not as good as say a tier 1 pro from Korea.
There are other commentators who do some research, but their level of understanding will never be on the same level as Artosis or Day9. If you look at sports, the vast majority of coaches are former players that played at a very high level. Why? Because the experience as a professional player is necessary in order to be a coach. Being on a balance team obviously would require a high level of skill; you're not working with game design. You're working on balance. Massive difference.
But have many (if at all) commentators or progamers worked on games before? No... the diamond requirement is only one of the requirements, and it is a minimum. Being good at the game doesn't mean you're necessarily a good candidate for the job, and vice versa.
On August 03 2012 10:13 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Can the title be changed? It's misleading and seems many people are not reading the OP enough to see why the title isn't exactly true.
On August 03 2012 07:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Lol? Some commentators, who have great knowledge about the recent trends in strategy (and understand why they are doing that and such), are not in diamond, let alone play random.
The diamond requirement may seem like a joke, but it's just a low limit. There should be many with exceptions. What if someone is really intelligent but is handicapped or such?
Anyways...
DAMN I WOULD LOVE TO WORK FOR SC2 SHIT FUCK LOL
too bad it's temporary
This is such a massive joke.
The only people who understand or know about recent trends are people like Artosis and Day9, both who would utterly clown 95% of the people on this board if they were to play SC2 full time. Both are quite capable players in their own right, just not as good as say a tier 1 pro from Korea.
There are other commentators who do some research, but their level of understanding will never be on the same level as Artosis or Day9. If you look at sports, the vast majority of coaches are former players that played at a very high level. Why? Because the experience as a professional player is necessary in order to be a coach. Being on a balance team obviously would require a high level of skill; you're not working with game design. You're working on balance. Massive difference.
I don't know about the US and A, but in europe, in many sports, the coaches were often average at best at their sport. The very best ones in football (Mourinho, Ferguson, Wenger) have no player career to brag about. Being good at the game is not always a must to be able to understand and solve the game and have others play it out.
Average?
You understand that to even be a coach in most sports you have to play at the professional level, meaning you are not "average" by any stretch of the imagination? That or you have to work from amateur levels all the way up to professional in the coaching world, which is no small feat either. Look at tennis, the most international sport of them all. Very few coaches do not have professional experience; the only two that come to mind that are successful are Toni Nadal, and Richard Williams, both who are coaches mainly due to their emotional bond with their player, not because of their technical skills (their players don't need "coaching" they need emotional support more than anything).
Professional as in they made money, hell people in masters would've made money if this was as big as football. They were not even close to being kings of the hill.
To be a professional player in tennis, you have an ATP point. That would put you in an elite category of like top 4000-5000 people in the world. That means out of all the tennis players out there, you are better than every single one except like .0001% of the population of the damn world.
It's a joke to believe that Coaches that have professional experience are bad players. They would kick your teeth in even at their age in their respective sport.
yah, and a diamond player would kick the the teeth in of every single person except like .0001% of the population of the damn world.
Diamond is top 20% of the current population of players playing the game. That's not anywhere near close to an ATP pro.
well, diamond could be the 20th percentile, or the 3rd, since the top 2% are masters, so that doesn't really hold.
This thread is hilarious. Some people are saying that "a player with good understanding, but poor mechanics should at least make it to masters". As far as I remember, it used to be the complete opposite. How many times have I heard that "you can reach higher tiers on macro alone, without using strategy"?
On August 03 2012 10:19 Sitinte wrote: It's a shame that I have zero idea of what I'm doing when it comes to using the editor, or when it comes to balancing games.
Testing stuff? Or do you think balancing is all about theorycrafting? If you can mess with the editor to test your stuff easily without asking someone else to make it, don't you think that would be more efficient?
Everyone needs to calm themselves and quit throwing a fit. The diamond level is specifically just a MINIMUM. I'd assume the reason they chose the diamond level is 1. there isn't that many random players in Masters & GM and 2. they don't want to miss any excellent candidates that possibly just don't have enough time to play the game right now and that's the reasoning why they are in diamond. There is much more that goes into balancing a game than APM and unit control.
Some people just don't know what they are talking about. It's not like Blizzard will hire everyone that meet the requirement. They are hiring more people to work as a team.
On August 03 2012 10:19 Sitinte wrote: It's a shame that I have zero idea of what I'm doing when it comes to using the editor, or when it comes to balancing games.
Testing stuff? Or do you think balancing is all about theorycrafting? If you can mess with the editor to test your stuff easily without asking someone else to make it, don't you think that would be more efficient?
geez
I don't understand your hostility towards me. I'm only saying that I don't have experience with what they listed under "plus".
On August 03 2012 10:27 Wildmoon wrote: Some people just don't know what they are talking about. It's not like Blizzard will hire everyone that meet the requirement.
From what blabber has said about his and his friend's interviews for this kind of position earlier in the thread, I doubt Blizzard will hire anyone at all short of a David Kim 2.0. They're essentially waiting for a prodigy game designer/player/mapmaker to come along to take as an assistant.
On August 03 2012 10:19 Sitinte wrote: It's a shame that I have zero idea of what I'm doing when it comes to using the editor, or when it comes to balancing games.
Testing stuff? Or do you think balancing is all about theorycrafting? If you can mess with the editor to test your stuff easily without asking someone else to make it, don't you think that would be more efficient?
geez
I don't understand your hostility towards me. I'm only saying that I don't have experience with what they listed under "plus".
I misread it, I'm sorry. I read it as "I have zero idea of what they are doing when it comes to using the editor and balancing games"
They said atleast diamond. It's not like all the people they will pick will be diamond. They might even get some master players and pick them too.
Also, the diamond league players won't be alone in this process. I imagine they are just trying to add on to their balance team to make balancing go faster.
I like this decision. Instead of having to wait a year for a pretty balanced game, perhaps it will take 6 months instead. Have faith people.
On August 03 2012 10:27 Wildmoon wrote: Some people just don't know what they are talking about. It's not like Blizzard will hire everyone that meet the requirement.
From what blabber has said about his and his friend's interviews for this kind of position earlier in the thread, I doubt Blizzard will hire anyone at all short of a David Kim 2.0. They're essentially waiting for a prodigy game designer/player/mapmaker to come along to take as an assistant.
You basically have to be able to do everything at decent level about Starcraft.
What I find funny with you people is that you equate a diamond random with a diamond zerg/terran/protoss where in actuality they are probably a masters level player in skill. In my opinion a high diamond random is better than a mid master player of a certain race. I think the input of a random diamond is probably better than a master player of a certain race in terms of balance.
I have a deep burning hatred for this thread. No-one is reading the job, the OP in title and 'content' (that one line) is of a hostile nature towards both Blizzard and Diamond players and the majority of the thread has little understanding of the actual requirements for an assistant game designer.
Could argue Blizzard have little understanding of actual requirements for assistant game designer too. Though most people argue that Diamond players don't have the understanding my point is that the random Diamond aspect of the requirements is useless.
Anyway, requirements are negotiable. A proven game designer that hasn't played sc2 has (and should have, despite all the crap I'm reading in this thread) far more chance at this job than someone who has the time to spend making it to Diamond as a Random player.
Otherwise requirement should really read this: - You must be a fan of one of our specific products and have spent a number of hours every week demonstrating fanaticism by playing a specific game mode at a specific minimum level of skill.
Surely this requirement doesn't just stick...surely...
On August 03 2012 10:41 AzureD wrote: What I find funny with you people is that you equate a diamond random with a diamond zerg/terran/protoss where in actuality they are probably a masters level player in skill. In my opinion a high diamond random is better than a mid master player of a certain race. I think the input of a random diamond is probably better than a master player of a certain race in terms of balance.
Most Master players are probably high-platinum level at the minimum with their off-races. Most Master level players have experiment with other races, and you can only play at a high level if you understand the other races as well. Being in Masters means you have the mechanics as well as the understanding in all of your normal match-ups mirrored. E.g, if you play Zerg and are good at ZvT you can probably play T and be good at TvZ.
On August 03 2012 10:41 bittman wrote: I have a deep burning hatred for this thread. No-one is reading the job, the OP in title and 'content' (that one line) is of a hostile nature towards both Blizzard and Diamond players and the majority of the thread has little understanding of the actual requirements for an assistant game designer.
Could argue Blizzard have little understanding of actual requirements for assistant game designer too. Though most people argue that Diamond players don't have the understanding my point is that the random Diamond aspect of the requirements is useless.
Anyway, requirements are negotiable. A proven game designer that hasn't played sc2 has (and should have, despite all the crap I'm reading in this thread) far more chance at this job than someone who has the time to spend making it to Diamond as a Random player.
Otherwise requirement should really read this: - You must be a fan of one of our specific products and have spent a number of hours every week demonstrating fanaticism by playing a specific game mode at a specific minimum level of skill.
Surely this requirement doesn't just stick...surely...
- People who play SC2. That's a few hundred thousand maybe? - Ok, let's assume the job is on-site, which means we're limiting it to North American residents. Let's say 1/3 of players are NA based. That gives us 100,000 people to work with. - Person also has to be Random. That's what 5% of ladder? Ok, now we're down to 5,000 candidates. - Now we want someone over 18, who's not in full-time school, currently employed or will leave their current job for this one. This percentage is pretty hard to guess, but I'd say 2%? Anyone have demographics on the SC2 playerbase? Let's go with 2%. That gives us 100 people.
- Now let's look at the difference between limiting Diamond and Masters players Diamond: ~20% of player pool = 20 people Masters: ~2% of player pool = 2 people
Now there are more complicated relationships at play here as well. I'd guess the fraction Randoms in Masters is less than that in Diamond (it's harder to be a Masters random). And that a larger percentage of Masters players are under 18, or in full time school (simply it takes a lot of practice to get there, meaning time is needed, something school provides). Also there are other requirements (being a mapmaker for example).
My point: limiting it to Masters gives you few to no candidates. Whine all you want, but if Blizzard want someone, they probably have to set their bar a little low.
P.S. Another thread where Masters players wax lyrical about their superiority. P.P.S. Masters with only the mouse? Put up or shut up.
This is just dumb. The smartest and most objective players aren't always going to have the time to play sc2 at a masters level. Also why would Blizzard want to limit the pool of potential employees to exclusively masters+? Not to mention the fact that if someone got this job they would have more time to play and would easily gain masters or grandmasters if they wanted to.
On August 03 2012 07:41 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Lol? Some commentators, who have great knowledge about the recent trends in strategy (and understand why they are doing that and such), are not in diamond, let alone play random.
The diamond requirement may seem like a joke, but it's just a low limit. There should be many with exceptions. What if someone is really intelligent but is handicapped or such?
Anyways...
DAMN I WOULD LOVE TO WORK FOR SC2 SHIT FUCK LOL
too bad it's temporary
This is such a massive joke.
The only people who understand or know about recent trends are people like Artosis and Day9, both who would utterly clown 95% of the people on this board if they were to play SC2 full time. Both are quite capable players in their own right, just not as good as say a tier 1 pro from Korea.
There are other commentators who do some research, but their level of understanding will never be on the same level as Artosis or Day9. If you look at sports, the vast majority of coaches are former players that played at a very high level. Why? Because the experience as a professional player is necessary in order to be a coach. Being on a balance team obviously would require a high level of skill; you're not working with game design. You're working on balance. Massive difference.
But have many (if at all) commentators or progamers worked on games before? No... the diamond requirement is only one of the requirements, and it is a minimum. Being good at the game doesn't mean you're necessarily a good candidate for the job, and vice versa.
Yeah, I have to agree. One of many requirements is a minimum of diamond level master play. Obviously they'll take random master higher if there are random master league applicants that are equal otherwise.
Reads "StarCraft Ladder rank of at least Diamond as a Random race player" face palms hard.
Reads rest of requirements and completely understands that these far out way your ranking in Sc2. Its basically just asking you to understand what Sc2 is as a game. The rest of the requirements which are way more important don't really even concern your skill level.
"Able to follow directions, and work as a team Excellent written and verbal communication skills Passion for playing and analyzing computer video games Pluses Prior experience balancing video games Able to use the StarCraft II Editor to create multiplayer maps Able to modify data in the Editor to tweak or create units"
On August 03 2012 08:31 Cabinet Sanchez wrote: I'm a noob (but watch a hell of a lot of GSL) but I can't see why Diamond players opinions are worth that much? I thought they had their own backend stats engine pulling data for ALL the matches world wide. Combine that with grandmaster / pro opinions as well as DEFINITELY some casters, who know what makes for a good game. but Diamond seems to be going bit low for opinions :/
Diamond isn't the only prerequisite, its simply the only one the OP put in bold. The main prerequisite stated was that they "...have an in-depth knowledge of all three races and current strategies for each." I feel like Diamond was only added as a very loose requirement to somewhat minimize the amount of applicants.
Personally, I think they should have stated Master instead. Not saying that's because Master's players have a better understanding of the game than everyone below them (hell, I bet I'd have a better understanding of matchups and metagame than a lot of Masters players), just because there's already going to be a ton of GM/Masters Random's applying, there's no need to extend that down to Diamond imo.
Also, its not like this position is Lead Balance Design or anything, I think they're just looking for a player who knows the MU's and meta inside and out and can contribute to their current discussion, perhaps even offering a different perspective.
I've decided to try and keep my mouth shut as time goes on, all the stuff I used to spout has been proven wrong personally - I know I'm a noob so now I just try to keep my eye out for comments from others I see as insightful. I saw one the other day for example about the 'come back' or turnaround and how difficult it is, that I can agree with definitely - but really hard to balance without rubber banding AI in the game and basically 'cheating' - it does make for far more exciting and closer matches though and as a spectator who consumes a lot, I think it would be good. I may not play much but I do watch high level stuff all the time at least.
Honestly though, the game seems quite well balanced right now to me, few things seem glaringly obvious. That's a good thing.
The job title is ASSISTANT GAME DESIGNER. Not GAME BALANCE DESIGNER. Not LEAD DESIGNER. Not LEAD BALANCE DESIGNER. Not BALANCE DIRECTOR.
Game Designers on the SC2 team fill a number of roles including developing new mechanics, features, maps, units, making sure the units dont have 22 range etc.
A typical (thought not exact) organizational ranking goes like this
1) Game Director (Dustin) 2) Game Balance Designer (Dkim, theres a few other guys in here, matt cooper i dont know where they fall in). 2) Game Designer X (making single player maps, features etc) 3) Assistant Game Designer
Do you see why this thread is complete shit and paints an inaccurate picture? You are basically suggesting that Microsoft hires a new grad who will be in charge of global infrastructure. You are wrong and so is this thread.
EPT
.
, I think this is the case for many players.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/I5YW4.png)
![[image loading]](http://diaryofamadgayman.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/c295f310_jackie-chan-meme.png)
