EPT
) and give others a chance. Stop joking around, if you want to win 40k dollars then you should work hard for them and prove you are the best, just like in any other competition. Winners get all, the rest go and practice, become stronger and try again till they manage to win.The Korean dominance in recent events. What to do? - Page 22
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ihug
Romania27 Posts
) and give others a chance. Stop joking around, if you want to win 40k dollars then you should work hard for them and prove you are the best, just like in any other competition. Winners get all, the rest go and practice, become stronger and try again till they manage to win. | ||
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Nekovivie
United Kingdom2599 Posts
What do you mean, 'what to do?'.. would you say the same if it was Americans dominating GSL? | ||
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Zurles
United Kingdom1659 Posts
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m0ck
4194 Posts
On April 10 2012 15:57 vthree wrote: Of course, people will pay more attention if someone from their country does well in the sport/e-sport. However, this is due to the fact that person is doing well and not because he gets to participate since he is from a certain country. Even if we do have regional qualifiers, if the foreigner players don't step up, they will just lose in the opening rounds anyways and I doubt that would generate interest. Looking at Stephano, I am sure a lot of people tuned in since he was the last foreign hope. But he MADE it by playing well in his group. Do you think people would be interested if Stephano just got seeded into Ro8 because he was a foreigner? Only the foreigners call this the 'Stephano' style... The fast 3rd with roaches vs FFE has been around for a long time. Sure, Stephano has his variate and Nestea has his, as do other zergs... I think more people tuned in because whitera & idra played in the groupstages than would if they had not. I think it is worth using some form of regional qualifiers to ensure that there is representation of foreign players. In a sense that means restricting Korean players if the alternative method of qualification in an open bracket (and if the tournament pays for the airfare, Korean teams in general don't have the money to fly out their players). I think it is important in order to sustain the interest in SC2 as a spectator-sport outside the hardcore viewers. But also, let's not overdo the 'foreigners, so bad' line. Foreigners can compete, some very well. I take your point on the mass-roach, i got carried away  | ||
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m0ck
4194 Posts
On April 10 2012 16:30 Nekovivie wrote: Koreans dominating tournaments... "What to do?".. What do you mean, 'what to do?'.. would you say the same if it was Americans dominating GSL? No, but Koreans probably would | ||
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Laplaces_imp
368 Posts
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Nekovivie
United Kingdom2599 Posts
I made a mistake saying that part, but still - my point was, Koreans are people too. You can't exclude/handicap them just because they are better players. It's just 'foreigner' players aren't quite up to the cut at the moment. You can't blame the Koreans for that. | ||
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m0ck
4194 Posts
On April 10 2012 16:45 Nekovivie wrote: I made a mistake saying that part, but still - my point was, Koreans are people too. You can't exclude/handicap them just because they are better players. It's just 'foreigner' players aren't quite up to the cut at the moment. You can't blame the Koreans for that. Of course not, I agree completely. There should certainly be no exclusion or handicapping. But I see nothing wrong in reserving spots for foreign players in group-play through something like regional qualifiers. Similar spots could be reserved for Korean players. In any case, I prefer tournaments that incorporates an open bracket. I think it makes for a much more unpredictable results and lessens the importance of being a 'known' player. Beautifully demonstrated by Scarlett and Squirtle. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6260 Posts
- Eat cup noodle. - Play with one hand. etc. :p | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
I know it comes from BW where outside of Korea the community was small. But as far as ¨ helping new talent¨ it doesn´t make difference to an American having all the money taken by Europeans than by Koreans. How about people.... you know do like SEA server did and do national tournies? As far of who is more entertaining I couldn't care less about nationality. | ||
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winthrop
Hong Kong956 Posts
give foreigners three more probes at the start problem solved | ||
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winthrop
Hong Kong956 Posts
On April 10 2012 17:04 Azzur wrote: They should do a koreans "off-the-record" tournament with handicaps similar to the GSL show! - Eat cup noodle. - Play with one hand. etc. :p they will practice this for sure if happened you can't beat them | ||
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ETisME
12712 Posts
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Azzur
Australia6260 Posts
On April 10 2012 17:09 winthrop wrote: they will practice this for sure if happened you can't beat them News Flash: Korean admitted to hospital after eating too many cup noodles! | ||
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Imbu
United States903 Posts
In the Korean scene, they are given the opportunity to live in a team house, practice with equally motivated people, have a professional coach who knows the game talk about things to improve, and access to the world's hardest ladder. They are given the chance to have an environment where every single overhead that occupies a foreigner's training is taken care of. A maid will clean and cook for the team, they have a team house to sleep in, and they are given (I imagine) enough money to have the occasional movie or meal. Compare that to the foreigner scene. Minus the top players from established organizations, many of them have to take care of themselves. For many, they require the aid of people outside of their organization to have a place to live, they have to cook food and clean their place, all these small things that remove the opportunity to stay practicing. Some of them have to juggle college or work with their schedule, preventing them from ever reaching their peak. It's easy then to say "SEND THOSE FOREIGNERS TO KOREA FOR A YEAR, THEY'LL FIGURE IT OUT!!!" However, although the foreigners that we send are now given the chance to focus on the game, very few of them can live in that environment. They are suddenly placed in a completely foreign culture, with very few who speak any english. There is the stress of being so different from everyone, and the sense of loneliness that must come along if you can't find anyone to spend your time with. Recently this has become a lot better with so many foreigners training in Korea (relatively to the past) and many of the Korean teams being very helpful to the foreigners, but one can not deny the stress that comes from being a complete outsider. So to answer the question, as long as the current environment for foreigners exists, it will be impossible for any to ever consistently beat the Koreans. Foreigners are ultimately limited to the time they can practice, since they will be unable to every commit their full attention to the game simply due to the environment, not because of willpower. However, as esports grows and teams start to become more serious, I'm confident this will not continue. Teams like Liquid have a very good relationship with oGs, and as such, many of their players have the opportunity to go to train in the almost ideal conditions of Korea. Similarly, EG and fanatic have created team houses for their players, which goals to create a similar environment, and I'm confident that after enough time has been given, these results will show. But most importantly, as the environment improves for foreigners, the hidden talent will have a chance to actually grow, instead of never having the chance to grow. | ||
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KaRath_
Australia245 Posts
1. The effort and time they spend compared to foreigners is much, much more 2. The money and sponsorships offered in Korea (and America and Europe) are better than some other places. For example, esports in Australia isn't that developed (just as an example) - the prizes are too little to encourage full time play, and we don't even have proper local servers that give less than 150ms ping. At the end of the day, if you're playing games for 10+ hours a day for weeks on end, that's your lifestyle - but if you don't have money or a career... | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On April 10 2012 16:45 Nekovivie wrote: I made a mistake saying that part, but still - my point was, Koreans are people too. You can't exclude/handicap them just because they are better players. It's just 'foreigner' players aren't quite up to the cut at the moment. You can't blame the Koreans for that. The GSL requires foreigner participants to travel to and live in Korea at their own expense in order to compete in the qualifiers and in the tournament itself; however, GOMTV sets aside a number of paid for foreigner seeds - which in effect is a foreigner quota. Foreigner tournaments pay for Korean pros to travel and live in foreigner countries in order to compete in foreigner tournaments; however, there are no seeds set aside for Korean pros. Food for thought. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On April 10 2012 07:12 aebriol wrote: By celebrating the better quality of games for us viewers. + Show Spoiler + YES! In light of the once-a-week thread creation about mystification as to why Koreans show superior tournament results than foreigners, I think we need to discuss why forum-goers are perpetually stumped in this topic. My feeling is that we should only have the best in Starcraft 2 rise to the top and showcase shiny medals. If you want a girl gamer's tournament, the best girl wins. If you want a special olympics tournament, only the best team gaming despite handicaps should win. Back to your thoughts, and not mine reading thread after thread on why foreigners lag behind and what should be done with that. As a community. With the full force of the best of our good attentions. Imagine if you will, the best from each country duking it out for their country in a tournament. Well, the country that has very good A, B, and C teams can really send their A team and win it. Does anybody remember GSL World Championship? Oh wait, am I saying it already happened? No, but you say, Danglars, this tournament with 6 from each nation would be different ... foreigners would get farther. They'd get farther than they usually do. Are you talking, like Stephano finally getting a top 12 performance in IPL4? Or maybe a guy like HuK placing top 8 in an MLG? Yeah, limiting the source country sending players will finally get the foreigners we root for into the highest echelons of tournaments. I hope I drove the point home that foreigners can bloody the top players already. Their consistency across many months of tournaments still lags. And, based on these results, players can still cheer on their favorite player from their own country. I address this to your claim that we NEED this, that we NEED to use a limited-Korean-invite style in order to create role-models in countries when the sport isn't big. Attracting people not into eSports is a very wide topic indeed, but not dependent on having superstars win eSports tournaments, but rather people interested in watching their country's superstar compete in an eSports tournament. I continue on to your fears that only hardcore fans will like watching if the good money says a Korean will win the tournament. You'd think that after a year, we'd see a huge departure alright, right? Yet, these tournaments are hosting even bigger viewership numbers than when the game first game out and Koreans first started flying to foreigner tournaments. This hand wringing is very absurd. Additionally, you underestimate the ability of fans to root for the underdog, no matter how unfavored he is. Even among two Koreans, there was a clear energy for the underdog Squirtle fighting through the open bracket and loser's to advance to the finals. This wasn't a, "Pack your bags guys, there's only Koreans fighting now!" No, individual superstars still compel eyes to remain focused on eSports tournaments. Casual fans stick around to see the stories unfold. Not just of their own countrymen, but of Korean athletes. I want to see MC rise again to win something big, and I don't give a damn that he lives an ocean away from me and speaks a different language than me. Casual fans get engrossed in watching the struggle for dominance and fall in love with champions that show surprising plays and masterful strokes. Until you can bury your fears, I suggest you tune in to "The Executives." Understand where the money comes from for these tournaments and the source for teams to fly players from country to country competing. I'm not saying that the money is the beating heart of the sport, but its at least its legs. Learn some legitimate concerns from team managers and compare that to the next fictitious one dreamed up on the forums. I mean, fears that may be justified in a year or two when the landscape totally changes, but some guy wants to claim they predicted it. Right. They'll be more important reasons then, too. | ||
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Leetley
1796 Posts
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YoucriedWolf
Sweden1456 Posts
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