EPTThe Korean dominance in recent events. What to do? - Page 23
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Nabes
Canada1800 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
Foreigner tournaments pay for Korean pros to travel and live in foreigner countries in order to compete in foreigner tournaments; however, there are no seeds set aside for Korean pros. Actually, foreign tournament only pay for the TOP Korean pros. If you are MC, MMA, Nestea, MVP, etc. Yes, you will be invited to tournaments expenses paid. Other korean pros are either supported by their teams/sponsors or have to pay on their own (players like MKP couldn't afford to go to MLG until reddit sponsors him). Some koreans also get their expenses paid for by qualifying via online qualifiers and such. Tournaments also do this for foreigners as well. And if a foreigner and a korean had the some accomplishments, you would bet the foreigner would get more invites. Hell, if a foreign WON one GSL, he would get invited to EVERY tournament. Also, GSL is 2 months long compared with a weekend tournament like MLG, IPL so the costs are very different in terms of cost of travel and housing. | ||
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Nyctophobia
Canada99 Posts
You can't disallow someone from competing in your event just because they're too good. | ||
naastyOne
491 Posts
While I do understand that TL webforum is quite a "certain type of people" community, there is so ridiculous amound of not called upon fail i just wanted to get in. First of all, sport is about the SHOW, not determining who has the longest dick. While skill is an integral part of the Show, more skill doesn`t necessary means better show. When about half of matches are predictably Korean terran MMM&drops, you might as well not watch half of the tournament. Simple as that, pick the "best"(the highest in position or whatever criterium) don`t waste time on the else. Obviously this is an example, but you get the drill. Secondly 95% to 99% will not see the difference between the "code A" and "code S" doing same BO and style of play, while they can very vell notice different styles of play and different BOs. What does it means? Basically that there is no need for 90% of tournament to be super mega pro skilled players for it to be entertaining, on contray, such tournament is less predictable, and thurs more interesting. That is the thing that is widely seen world-wide. The lesser leagues, i mean every friging european country has 2-3 leagues of football. Strangely, they have enough fans and money to live their life, despite the fact that uniting them into one "mega" league would result in overall "higher skill". Could continue with other sports, but pretty much all sports have their lowest competitions at inter schools or inter-university levels, with kids/students playing in free of study time, so the argument holds perfectly. Now, Look at SC2 itself. How many of the "skilled" players praise HD/day9/whoever, and dislike Husky(H to the usky husky). Guesswhat, Husky pretty much has larger auditory than all other english casters brought together. Ever thought why? Well, he manages to do the "show" part better, while casting same replays as others. Ever wondered why the for example Football World Cup is much more noticeable and attended event than European Cup, despite the fact that Europeans dominate football, and a part from Argentina and Brazil, pretty much no national team can stand up? Despite the fact that a lot of European underdogs are probably better than some/most of teams from other than Europe/SA region. So what does this means? It means in an order to survive and develop any sport needs a balance of local and international events, local and international teams, and most importantly content for broad spectre of dedication, and international events should be international, it should be serving to promote and advertise the sport apon broad community. The problem may be not the IPL itself, but the fact that there is a lack of the local/non-korean tournaments, (while there are very plenty of korean dominated tournaments) and IPL was looking like the missing part, but it was just pretty much ended up as MLG, so largely failed to provide something different and unique. Lastly, the ones about "they need to get better" got it upside down. When korea has community, which generates enough revenue to pay large enough number of pro-gamers for a living, In NA/EU, it does not exists, so foreign players can not really dedicate themselves to SC2, because they also have education and work which is not connected to SC2 and takes time from it. Which again brings down the question of how to build up the international community, and "international tournaments"(coupled with local ones) are a great thing to do, bot only if the "domination of one nation" is impossible, otherwise the entire event serves only as another local competition for that country. And the words of IPL4 manager pretty much confirms it, IPL4 failed on it`s purpose of an international tournament. Still interesting event, but largely irrelevant. | ||
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naastyOne
491 Posts
On April 10 2012 18:01 Nyctophobia wrote: You can't disallow someone from competing in your event just because they're too good. False logic. Not every tournament should be yet another "determine who is the best player in the world". Those kinds are well covered already. | ||
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Autotroph
United Kingdom940 Posts
is there seriously a thread about this? Why not just ban Korea all together... No, the only thing that we can do is get better Foreigners just need to work harder and stop making excuses. End of story. Exactly. For a brief period HuK was placing high (if not winning) multiple tournaments on the hop and in Code S, like many Korean Code S players. Just a glimpse of foreigners performing on par with top Koreans - it can be done. Concocting ways to weight tournament formats in foreign players favour won't help in the long or short terms. | ||
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AxUU
Finland162 Posts
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
I think IPL was a one time deal in the number of Korean attendees because of the GSTL finals bringing in 15+ top level Korean players alone to compete in the tournament. Source: http://www.dreamhack.se/dhs12/2012/04/04/eizo-open-stockholm-first-players/ | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On April 10 2012 13:07 Kraznaya wrote: How well are professional Korean basketball and baseball doing? Baseball is the number one spectator sport in Korea by a large margin. I'm not sure about basketball- it gets decent crowds but doesn't seem to be anywhere near baseball in terms of popularity. It just strikes me as funny that people are getting all heated up about supposed racism when Koreans do exactly the same thing with their domestic sports leagues. | ||
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D_K_night
Canada615 Posts
On April 10 2012 09:17 Dodgin wrote: If the scene never reaches the heights people want it to because of Korean dominance I won't care. I'll be here with the rest of the hardcore fans watching the best games and cheering on my favorite players regardless of which country they come from, just like Brood War. Foreigners need to stop being lazy and get better if they want to win tournaments. ( example: Incontrol took a 2 month break during the winter holidays and apparently didn't play any games, you call yourself a professional? ) If not that's fine too, I'll just watch the Korean players instead. Regarding Incontrol, it's his business, but I do see your point. If the Koreans are practicing 12 hours/day, and here we have foreigners who go by a much more "do whatever you want" schedule, then it shouldn't shock us that the winner will be the one who plainly put in the time. But you gotta realize that Incontrol's role is not the same as IdrA's or Puma's. Incontrol is a personality, the face of EG, the "everyman" that people can relate a little more to, compared to say IdrA. He does the stuff in the background that many of us don't see. If he happens to take some games off of someone, well that's a bonus. Whereas with Puma and the others, they are expected to earn their keep through winnings, streaming, coaching, any source of revenue they use to pull in income for the team. Think about Anna's role. It's a very different one as well. Long story short everyone on the EG team has their assigned roles and responsiblities not unlike any professional business. It's just easy to get sidetracked when you see that they live in a house together and you see them in home clothes. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On April 10 2012 18:23 D_K_night wrote: Regarding Incontrol, it's his business, but I do see your point. If the Koreans are practicing 12 hours/day, and here we have foreigners who go by a much more "do whatever you want" schedule, then it shouldn't shock us that the winner will be the one who plainly put in the time. But you gotta realize that Incontrol's role is not the same as IdrA's or Puma's. Incontrol is a personality, the face of EG, the "everyman" that people can relate a little more to, compared to say IdrA. He does the stuff in the background that many of us don't see. If he happens to take some games off of someone, well that's a bonus. Whereas with Puma and the others, they are expected to earn their keep through winnings, streaming, coaching, any source of revenue they use to pull in income for the team. Think about Anna's role. It's a very different one as well. Long story short everyone on the EG team has their assigned roles and responsiblities not unlike any professional business. It's just easy to get sidetracked when you see that they live in a house together and you see them in home clothes. I wasn't hating on EG, It's just a quick example I could remember to compare work ethic. I understand your points about the value of Incontrol and what his role is in the team and agree, don't worry about that  | ||
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ppshchik
United States862 Posts
As much as foreigners are getting paid and salaried, they are still amateurs by skill since they don't have concentrated team house training environment (even the renowned EG lair and the TLO Swedish house from what I've esen). Wouldn't it be unfair for the up and coming players if Flash and Jaedong go to PC bangs and just sweep all the amateur tournaments? The thing is that RTS gaming is no longer mainstream in the west and we will never seen Korean style trainings there, SC2 is just another cash cow for ex-RTS gamers from War3 and Broodwar to make a living. When's the last time you saw an up and coming foreigner player who's neither a well-established ex-war3 / Broodwar pro? Hell even Korea managed to produce players like Maru and Creator despite being a much smaller country. People have to accept the reality that despite how good of a game SC2 is, it won't be accepted by the softcore mainstream community. FPS and MOBA are the future of western e-sports. If LoL is starting to surpass Broodwar even in Korea, what makes you think will happen western world? | ||
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blackone
Germany1314 Posts
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On April 10 2012 18:04 naastyOne wrote: Now, Look at SC2 itself. How many of the "skilled" players praise HD/day9/whoever, and dislike Husky(H to the usky husky). Guesswhat, Husky pretty much has larger auditory than all other english casters brought together. Ever thought why? Well, he manages to do the "show" part better, while casting same replays as others. This part really made me laugh... i think almost noone praises HD anymore since beta while a ton of people (including high level) like Husky :p On the rest of your post... You look like you haven't followed the SC2 scene very closely. Most casual people (like me) can discern the skill of people like Stephano,Polt,MMA or MKP from people like CoCa,Top,Bomber or Clide. While the first are awesome to watch in their games due to their incredible skill, the Code A people are just not that interesting to watch because all games look basically the same. (I know i put Stephano into the Code S group eventhough he is not - but he should be :p) Yes, the Show is important, that is why so many people love MC eventhough he doesn't always show the best results, but the best show comes from seeing exciting games (for example Stephano vs Polt at LSC and MLG was a great show _because_ both players have incredible skill). As for the football world cup having more viewers than EU football cup... well, thats mostly a matter of advertising. | ||
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Eury
Sweden1126 Posts
On April 10 2012 18:33 blackone wrote: The best way to deal with this is stopping to be a racist and start rooting for players based on their personalities or skill or looks instead of their race. Throw in world peace when you are at it. | ||
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GreyKnight
United States4720 Posts
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Nyctophobia
Canada99 Posts
On April 10 2012 18:07 naastyOne wrote: False logic. Not every tournament should be yet another "determine who is the best player in the world". Those kinds are well covered already. What? Do you think people want to watch an event full of the less notable players? I mean, we could go watch high masters online cups all day, if you really think that's gonna work. Besides... I've never really seen the large events as a "determine who is the best player in the world" kind of thing, as you put it, because that title has too much weight to throw around based on a single event. | ||
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ShakkaFL
Norway647 Posts
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naut1c
Austria100 Posts
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
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