|
While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned! - Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM - Comparing people to Hitler - Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 14 2011 19:58 bigjenk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:55 mrtomjones wrote:On December 14 2011 19:53 jalstar wrote:On December 14 2011 19:52 mrtomjones wrote:On December 14 2011 19:47 Ninjahoe wrote: NaNi played MLGs ALL FUCKING YEAR LONG for this Code S seed, and they take it away for something like this. Fucking retarded shit, obviously not thought through, just a snap-judgement-decision.
Joke joke joke joke fucking terrible joke
And everyone saying he deserved it and swedish ppl are definding him because he's swedish - That's fucking retarded, people defending him are the only ones thinking with a clear fucking mind. I'm not saying what he did was good, and he deserves to be notified. Maybe a warning, to let him know that hey, that's not something we support for our invites, if you do something like that again you're out.
But not taking away something he worked hard for an entire year, now that's fucking retarded. You clearly are thinking with a clear mind. Thats why you repeat words over and over and rage swear multiple times. THIS IS THE WARNING. It could have been much worse. And if you don't think they thought it through you are just so so naive. Much worse? I'm surprised people are defending this, I'd love to hear the arguments of people who would defend a lifetime ban. You obviously have no insite into the Asian culture or into professionalism in general so no point explaining anything. I never said a lifetime ban anyways. Yeah asian culture in esports shows us inscruatable morals(savior scandle, xb, fruitdealer, coca, choya etc etc etc.)
They pretty much all got punished though
|
I think GSL has shown a great level of consistency. So much so, that it should have been obvious where Naniwa's actions would lead him. Choya, Byun and Coca are demonstrations of this in their own ways. I think Day9 and Incontrol were spot on in their assessment this past evening that what he did was inappropriate.
I can't think of a better way to punish someone who so obviously has issues mentally with restraining himself from either badmouthing tournaments (see MLG) or conducting themselves unprofessionally (probe rush). I don't think this would have happened if Naniwa was a superb, excellent stand-up guy that everyone looked towards as well mannered. Instead, this is an organization steeped in a culture of professionalism and competitiveness within the mecca of eSports that probably knows who Naniwa is, is aware of his behavior through the grapevine of the Koreans and team houses who take issue with him and who decided that they weren't going to deal with someone like that.
Naniwa needs to realize what a lot of hard-headed and stubborn people who think they can justify their actions with "Well, I didn't break any rules!!" need to realize: the world is all about perspectives. From his perspective, what he did was fine. If it wasn't, he wouldn't have done it. And his apology rings hollow like so many others he's given now because that's not who he is. He needs to learn how to mask how much of a scummy individual he is much better. That digresses from my main point: that their perspective is not the only one and usually, it isn't the one that matters. From the perspective of almost the entire community he was a guest in, he was offensive.
That's all that really matters.
I personally thought his behavior was poor just because it's one more bad decision in a long line of bad decisions. Even someone moderately following the scene is aware of this, so again, I figure GSL nipped this far past it's expiration date.
TL;DR: Don't act like a shithead your entire career and expect each incident to be treated differently. At some point, people grow tired of you and will use every incident, even the most insignificant one, to burn you to death. I would handle it no differently and I don't. I'm not about redemption.
|
The problem is that kicking players out based on a rule that basically says "if we don't like you, you're out!" is not okay. I hope this leads to tournaments having better rules.
|
I like how Naniwa not trying during a fucking SHOWMATCH is considered unforgivable, but terrans dropping Mules before a win is not even BM.
|
So say in poker, someone goes all-in with a low percentage hande (eg. three high) because he is tilted, should he be banned?
|
On December 14 2011 19:55 eot wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:45 perestain wrote:On December 14 2011 19:29 Terranist wrote: i believe there is a reasonable explanation for naniwa's behavior. he had nestea tilted at MLG, which is a valuable psychological tool in a competitive environment. why play out a meaningless game and allow nestea any sort of redemption and lose the one edge he had over nestea? there was a definite potential that they could've clashed in code S.
secondary to that, gom should give money incentives to compete till the end of the group instead of shitting on naniwa. Theres no need for a reasonable explantion, the behaviour itself was completely reasonable. Naniwa played to win the tournament, not to put on a fake show. No compromises. Whether this is entertaining to watch is up to the viewer, but if you want to see real competition, this is way more honest than playing a half hearted 4gate. I dont understand anyone preferring players to fake it when clearly there is no real competition going on anymore. And people should also stop with all that terrible honor bullcrap. Honor is a concept that was solely invented to make people be proud of a behaviour that is unfavorable for themselves so that others can directly profit from it. Its a means of oppression, nothing more. I want to watch a competition, not some shitty travesty. There is a difference between a half hearted 4-gate and an unmicroed 7-probe rush and the difference keeping up appearances. To not do that is seen as a deliberate act of disrespect by most people. If he does a 4-gate then that's basically "I accept that I have to play this game so lets just get it over with" while 7-probe rush is "fuck you I'm not playing this game".
Of course there is a difference. And I prefer quick probe rushing to end it over of putting on a fake 4gate show when the competition is already over.
Its disgusting to see that players are expected to fake it.
Thats the reason I am not interested in wrestling. Gom should decide if they want to be honest with the competition or bullshit around with fake matches imo. Well obviously they already did. Too bad.
|
On December 14 2011 19:58 Vari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:57 Luppy1 wrote:On December 14 2011 19:55 SedativeDev wrote: THIS IS STUPIDITY!!
well, when the next gsl is on air i will not tune in... simple as that
i won't watch some hypocrites with double standards. GOM now looks a little bit more kespa... What double standard? Care to explain? people don't know what the word hypocrite or the phrase double standard actually mean evidenced by plenty of posts in this thread. Remove player for damaging the integrity of competition, randomly add two players to code S without qualifying. I see no hypocrisy here.
|
On December 14 2011 19:58 legatus legionis wrote:+ Show Spoiler +After I noticed the initial outrage that occured I was incredibly confused. I couldn't understand that even though people can be upset, they can think it's fair to make something out of nothing. With speculation of GOM potentially enforcing a punishment I was in shock. There are actually many ways you can view that as being wrong, depending on how serious. Only the littlest meaningless symbolic punishment can be justified. To add some arguments for this. When Coca got in trouble. GOM didn't do anything. Back then I said it is bad for them to let the team handle it because that means GOM hasn't taken any action and hasn't shown any rules regarding such things going forward. Had GOM taken the action themselves it would have been a bit different. The Rain situation was a "farce". Rain already quit the GSL and would never play the seasons that he got suspended for. I cannot remember what happened in the case of ChoyafOu. As someone mentioned this page or previous page. A rule regarding disrespect is something subjective. It's like being insulted. I can be insulted because you tell me my hair is stupid. But then on another day I don't care if you tell me that and so on. It's really bad to start taking action on points like this. The absence of a concrete rule should be seen as a breach in their own rule set and they should take the hit for not being able to enforce the rule they want because they first have to set it up and make it into a rule. I would also like to remind people that this actually has nothing to do with Naniwa or what happened with Naniwa. Based purely on GOM, their rules and actions you will get enough material to support a stance of disagreement with GOM. There is also an element of Foreigner vs Korean here. I think we are much more lenient when it comes to these things. MLG we forfeit matches, we coinflip them, we don't show up to NASL division matches, we obviously throw matches. The thing that angers me is that a worker rush is no different than a fast expansion or a proxy stargate. They are all strategies. You cannot claim anything beyond that. Even though it seems like he threw the match and he probably did, unless he actually makes that statement you have nothing to go about. Didn't IdrA "throw" many games? Don't we see many games where people are already through but they play really fucking dumb builds because they don't wanna show their good builds? I don't mind that, it's part of the game. And so is this. I like Naniwa a lot. His play gives me real amazement since it's so refined. I can relate a his behaviour and with so many people that cannot it gives me a player that is statisfying to continue to support. Every season with Naniwa and the other foreigners in Code A and purchased a ticket without thinking. Normally I alternate season tickets because of time limitations. It pleases me to see many people take a stand and even ones with some status. Especially considering I was extremely dissapointed in many of the tweets/reactions these community figures made against Naniwa's behaviour. I'm sure we all read Morrow's post, I don't mean those, Morrow's post was real and gave some sanity back. I'm going to consider joining up in some sort of boycott. That always seems legit and puts your money where your mouth is. I actually don't feel I'm missing out. Yesterday I was contemplating this because I thought, if they actually do any punishment, in particular take Code S which is.. unbelievable.. it makes me feel so sick. How can I enjoy watching anything when this organization does such a dirty thing? I won't and I will not purchase /' watch / support the GSL if they go through with this. Remember when people got upset that Team MVP qualified for the GSTL and IM didn't? Yea that was legit, this isn't. + Show Spoiler [Not incredibly relevant pieces of song…] ++ Show Spoiler + You want to save the world? I can tell you what to do! You want to end terror? This solution is for you! Answer the call up join the proud the few. Pull on the trigger with your heart and soul Cause war is peace now we know.
+ Show Spoiler + To save you WE MAY HAVE TO KILL YOU! For freedom YOU MAY HAVE TO DIE! Number 1 at liberation Liberating life from bodies, helping spirits fly... Freedom from... LIFE!
+ Show Spoiler + LOOK BACK... on history, nothing much has changed THOUSANDS... of soldiers of all countries, all marching the same Every nation's leader says that our side is right Every nation's leader says the time has come to fight But they use the common people to settle their scores IT'S TIME THAT WE REFUSE TO FIGHT IN ANY OF THEIR WARS!
No one's going to give a damn about a boycott, really man.
|
I guess this is a cultural thing where appearance trumps honesty, to bad Naniwa comes from a culture where it's the reversed.
Remember kids, it's all about saving face and keeping up appearances! Honesty is for losers...
|
On December 14 2011 19:57 Soma.bokforlag wrote: I just e-mailed gom saying how i feel. i would urge everyone that cares about fairness and predictability and professionalism in e-sports to do the same.
YES, you heard me right, professionalism! Professionalism is not coming up with stupid rules when things have already happened, to try to justify punishing people you dont like
In response I just sent GOM an email SUPPORTING their decision. i encourage people who care about respect to do so as well.
|
On December 14 2011 19:59 Linwelin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:58 bigjenk wrote:On December 14 2011 19:55 mrtomjones wrote:On December 14 2011 19:53 jalstar wrote:On December 14 2011 19:52 mrtomjones wrote:On December 14 2011 19:47 Ninjahoe wrote: NaNi played MLGs ALL FUCKING YEAR LONG for this Code S seed, and they take it away for something like this. Fucking retarded shit, obviously not thought through, just a snap-judgement-decision.
Joke joke joke joke fucking terrible joke
And everyone saying he deserved it and swedish ppl are definding him because he's swedish - That's fucking retarded, people defending him are the only ones thinking with a clear fucking mind. I'm not saying what he did was good, and he deserves to be notified. Maybe a warning, to let him know that hey, that's not something we support for our invites, if you do something like that again you're out.
But not taking away something he worked hard for an entire year, now that's fucking retarded. You clearly are thinking with a clear mind. Thats why you repeat words over and over and rage swear multiple times. THIS IS THE WARNING. It could have been much worse. And if you don't think they thought it through you are just so so naive. Much worse? I'm surprised people are defending this, I'd love to hear the arguments of people who would defend a lifetime ban. You obviously have no insite into the Asian culture or into professionalism in general so no point explaining anything. I never said a lifetime ban anyways. Yeah asian culture in esports shows us inscruatable morals(savior scandle, xb, fruitdealer, coca, choya etc etc etc.) They pretty much all got punished though Simply being punished is irrelevant when the severity is the issue.
|
On December 14 2011 19:40 o)_Saurus wrote: So to sum things up:
Naniwa got kicked out of german EPS. Naniwa got kicked out of IEM. Naniwa got kicked out of Code S.
Seriously, can you still say that he is "misunderstood"?
He was pretty close to getting some kind of punishment from MLG too, when he called them on stream amateur tournament or something pretty offensive like that, when he picked the wrong map LOL
|
Lol at people calling naniwa defender "butt hurt". If anyone is butt hurt it's GOM. Naniwa tells them he wants to forfeit the last game because it has meaning but they force him to play it out and when he does play it out and loses on purpose they get so mad just because he didn't respect their stupid decision. Also later on they revoke his seed and slander him publicly.
Yes the Naniwa defenders are certainly the ones that are butt hurt....
GOM has shown us how immature and childish they are and I for one is gonna vote with my wallets, no more tickets for me
|
On December 14 2011 19:52 Candide wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:48 OlorinTheWise wrote:On December 14 2011 19:46 probablywrong wrote:On December 14 2011 19:41 bana wrote:On December 14 2011 19:37 Legace wrote:On December 14 2011 19:30 mgl0x9 wrote: A Korean player WOULD NEVER do this and everyone knows it Choya, Byun and CoCa. They would never... Choya did it on LADDER Byung, CoCa in a ONLINE cup, which was for nothing, CoCa loses 1 game on purpose, but won the series anyway. To qualify for Code B, ladder ranking on the KR server is actually important. Byun and Coca did it in a tournament where there was a Code A seed on the line. There wasn't a Code A seed on the line in that tournament. :/ there was... ESV It took place during the weekly tournament, which is a qualifier for the monthly finals. The ESV monthly finals is the tournament which has a Code A seed up for grabs to the winner. Regardless, it happened during GomTV's format restructuring, so there wasn't even a Code A spot available for that month's finals anyways, as Gom was assessing whether or not to give ESV a Code A slot in their current format.
|
On December 14 2011 19:51 Jason54178 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:49 jalstar wrote:On December 14 2011 19:48 CuSToM wrote:On December 14 2011 19:45 leBIGcrab wrote:On December 14 2011 19:41 CuSToM wrote:On December 14 2011 19:39 leBIGcrab wrote: To people supporting Gom TV : Stop being such awful pricks and sucking korean *****.
Banning Naniwa IS UNFAIR. Get over it omg. Sounds like you're the one that needs to get over it. Throwing a game IS UNPROFESSIONAL especially when you're a progamer. All these people whining about not wanting to buy tickets cause Naniwa isn't going to be in Code S next season: did you feel like you got your money's worth after what he did last night? You're an idiot. Read my other posts. I dislike Naniwa and what he did wasn't good. But they shouldn't ban him from Code S. That's what i defend. You want to be professional GOM? Write motherfucking clear rules. Well you know your argument is garbage when you have to resort to name calling to defend it. Maybe you should learn to read. He wasn't banned from GSL or Code S, his Code S seed that was GIVEN to him for GSL January was revoked. No, he earned the Code S seed in a very explicit way, by finishing the highest out of any non-Code-S players at MLG. If that's not earning it then MMA and MC didn't earn theirs. Not trying to intrude or anything, but that code S spot is a privilege. When did it become a right?
It became a right when MLG signed a partnership which allowed Nani to earn the spot?
|
On December 14 2011 19:59 Luppy1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:58 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 19:57 Luppy1 wrote:On December 14 2011 19:55 SedativeDev wrote: THIS IS STUPIDITY!!
well, when the next gsl is on air i will not tune in... simple as that
i won't watch some hypocrites with double standards. GOM now looks a little bit more kespa... What double standard? Care to explain? people don't know what the word hypocrite or the phrase double standard actually mean evidenced by plenty of posts in this thread. I don't see any double standards at all. You can't point out the double standard either. Calling for somebody to be a professional and then call him prizemoney hunter?
|
On December 14 2011 20:00 johanreidel wrote: I guess this is a cultural thing where appearance trumps honesty, to bad Naniwa comes from a culture where it's the reversed.
Remember kids, it's all about saving face and keeping up appearances! Honesty is for losers... Way to insult the Korean culture. Way to go.
|
On December 14 2011 20:00 Ryps wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:40 o)_Saurus wrote: So to sum things up:
Naniwa got kicked out of german EPS. Naniwa got kicked out of IEM. Naniwa got kicked out of Code S.
Seriously, can you still say that he is "misunderstood"? He was pretty close to getting some kind of punishment from MLG too, when he called them on stream amateur tournament or something pretty offensive like that, when he picked the wrong map LOL "joke tournament"
|
I would be SO demotivated if I was Naniwa right now. Having fought for that spot in Code S for an entire MLG season, and now he can watch it vanish. Oh my he must be breaking a room right now..
|
On December 14 2011 20:01 theBALLS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:00 johanreidel wrote: I guess this is a cultural thing where appearance trumps honesty, to bad Naniwa comes from a culture where it's the reversed.
Remember kids, it's all about saving face and keeping up appearances! Honesty is for losers... Way to insult the Korean culture. Way to go. Because the opposite isnt done here daily in order to defend it.
|
|
|
|