On December 14 2011 18:41 Kiyo. wrote:
Time to get a $100 refund on my premium ticket.
Time to get a $100 refund on my premium ticket.
Yup.
| Forum Index > Closed |
While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people. Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned! - Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM - Comparing people to Hitler - Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. | ||
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aut0mati0n
United States97 Posts
On December 14 2011 18:41 Kiyo. wrote: Time to get a $100 refund on my premium ticket. Yup. | ||
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Ponchey
Sweden89 Posts
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creepcolony
Germany362 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:23 Kiyo. wrote: + Show Spoiler + On December 14 2011 22:21 Starcraftmazter wrote: What is most troubling to me, is that most people are completely missing the key issues here. My email to GOM: Show nested quote + Hello A few days ago, I purchased the GSL Premium Yearly Ticket (My account email address is the same as this and the same one as my PayPal account for verification). I am very unhappy with your completely unprofessional decision to punish Naniwa for doing nothing wrong against the rules, quite arbitrarily - while not punishing any Korean player, ever for any sort of "misbehavior". In particular the rule you are using as justification in regards to disrespect and offence of players can be used in many instances. For instance, in some GSTL, oGsMC went over and banged the both of his enemy player before the game. This is easily both offensive and disrespectful - yet no action was taken. This is but one prominent example, and I am not suggesting any action should have been taken; rather I am pointing out the unprofessional arbitrary enforcement of that rule, which seems to be applied against foreigners only. Furthermore, I find the insulting slur of "Mr Chae" on Naniwa very unprofessional and ill conceived, this along with other previous events clearly shows your bias against non-Korean players and casters. Overall, I am rather angered by the precedent that this sets, allowing GoMTV to disqualify, remove and otherwise take action against players based entirely on what you believe to be some form of bad play. Looking back at Blizzard Cup, LiquidHero also played very poorly (but unlike Naniwai who showed very impressive games, I would say all of Hero's games were very bad), and his last two games especially were very amateur in nature, as he stopped trying. This is not an objective matter either, and in particular in Hero's game against DRG, he have DRG a win - in a game which *actually mattered* to the outcome of the tournament, whereas the game between Naniwa and Nestea did not. I do not see any action taken again Hero for this? And I am a fan of Hero, but I am merely pointing out the double standards which exists in the GSL with Korean and non-Korean players. I cannot understand why you think the foreign audience doesn't see this - do you take us all for fools? My question is, where do you draw the line? What gives you the right to draw it arbitrarily so? And at what stage can a player be kicked out for cheesing? Why are certain types of cheese ok (like 6pool) whereas others not? Naniwai could have just as easily 4gated or cannon rushed and lost - all that would have achieved is wasting more of everyone's time. I would argue that in not wasting said time that Naniwai actually has far more respect for viewers and fans than you do, so I find your decision very arbitrary and reckless. Why for instance was BitbybitPrime not punished using this very same rule? Naniwa works extremely hard, practising more than the vast majority of players (Korean and non-Korean alike) to play the best games for his fans. This is more than I can say about what BitbyBit did - and the same goes for many other players over time. To then be punished and be insulted like so, is extremely unjustifiable. You clearly do not understand that people are all different, and some get quite emotional in some situations. Next is the issue of MLG seeds into GSL code S. You have now broken your partnership with MLG, as you have failed to keep your end of the bargain. This is a further slap in the face to foreigners and foreign tournaments. Even if Naniwa's seed eventually gets replaced by another foreigner, that doesn't change the fact that you are illegitimising a foreign tournament by taking away it's right to seed a player into GSL Code S, and instead stealing that decision for yourselves. It has also come to my attention that you have deleted comments you have made about revoking Naniwai's code S seed claiming he never had it. This does not exactly add to your credibility, as it is not exactly a secret that he did. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-program The rules are stated very clearly, he earned his code S spot in Providence. I am unsure why you would try to claim he did not - again, do you take foreigners for complete idiots? You must understand, at this stage this is far beyond the Naniwa vs Nestea game. Now the bias of GomTV against foreigners as well as the behaviour of the tournament organisers to do whatever they want regardless of the rules is put in question. Furthermore on that note, you have taken a complete lack of responsibility for designing a tournament system which allows for meaningless games that don't have any result on any outcome. In conclusion, I am very displeased with this. I have supported the GSL and payed for virtually every season and event single since I first learned about it in 2010. Even these days, I end up defending GomTV from all the bad comments about the stream quality being far worse than MLG and Dreamhack - even on "HD". I really love Tastosis and always tune in to watch them cast regardless of who's playing. But this is really the last straw for me, I cannot possibly support you any longer as it seems to me that you have lost your integrity. Unless you plan to fully reverse your decision to take Naniwai's code S spot, or hand out any meaningful punishment in general (perhaps you can make it as meaningless as the game for which he was punished?), I request a full refund. If this refund is not given, or this email disregarded, I will take it up with PayPal. As the year 2012 has not even started yet, I am sure there is zero argument against getting a full refund. Lastly, being a long-term supporter, I appreciate this email be passed to some form of management so that my feelings be conveyed to them - as I believe I have made a lot of good arguments, which really deserve to be thought about by the management of the GSL. Thank You --- Nice email, mine was somewhat similar but a bit shorter. Same situation though, bought a year pass, requested refund. We'll see what happens. Well done guys. Thats they way to go. I mean its pretty simple: You are pro GOM TV -> You got it all wrong and failed. Hard. You are pro naniwa -> GJ. I mean its not even to discuss. | ||
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NHY
1013 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:23 Vardant wrote: Show nested quote + On December 14 2011 22:21 NHY wrote: On December 14 2011 22:17 HappyChris wrote: On December 14 2011 22:09 Zzoram wrote: On December 14 2011 22:08 HappyChris wrote: On December 14 2011 22:06 ethos wrote: What is so difficult about this. Naniwa was disrespectful. Naniwa was sent to the corner. You shouldn't be sad for Naniwa, you should be sad that it seems that esports has to raise other people's children. You don't get on their stage and then in the middle of it decide not to play by their rules because your feelings are hurt, and then get away with it scot-free (this isn't even that big of a punishment, its only a month, unless I'm mistaken). Gom has to be sure that the decisions that they make for the sake of the fans (format) are adhered to by the players that take their stage, even when you get the shitty end of the stick. We all have to sacrifice sometimes. Such is (adult) life. Naniwa gets a free pass why? Because you like him? Naniwa won his spot like DRG and MMA did before him. What did Idra and Sen win to win claim that Code S spot? Idra won IEM. Sen beat Naniwa to take 3rd place at Blizzcon behind MVP and Nestea. Dude they dont got a fuckign exchange program with GSL do they? MLG got an exchange program. MMA and DRG won there code S spot true that so did Naniwa. You get it. No exchange program for Providence. Stop spreading rumors, MLG clearly says he was given the spot, but some random guy on twitter says differently and you believe him? No, I have been saying this since the day Naniwa got 2nd. | ||
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Jameser
Sweden951 Posts
how come they allowed two full seasons of nothing but bitbybit SCV rushes without banning anyone? it's completely arbitrary and stupid and what's worse it makes me not able to take the GSL seriously as a tournament imagine any other tournament doing something like this, imagine if MLG banned incontrol from the champ seed because he wasn't playing good enough in their eyes | ||
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Legace
Sweden342 Posts
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XRaDiiX
Canada1730 Posts
Uninviting a player from Code S is same as Revoking his Code S Spot GomTV is just back-peddling from their unprofessional decision to revoke Naniwas Code S Spot for probe rushing Naniwa didn't do anything wrong there is nothing wrong with probe rushing. "Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter. It is official that Naniwa is given a punishment" | ||
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Vardant
Czech Republic620 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:25 baoluvboa wrote: Show nested quote + On December 14 2011 22:24 drepnir wrote: On December 14 2011 22:21 NHY wrote: No exchange program for Providence. So this is wrong? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Providence Ya because no Koreans were seeded into the championship bracket. It's not wrong and there were no seeds, because it was a different format. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
I wish I had any intention of giving GOM money prior to this so that my promise to never give them a cent as a result would have more weight | ||
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Kring
Portugal70 Posts
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Mirror0423
United States175 Posts
#1, I'm sure some of you are soccer fans, and love the world cup. There are games in the world cup group stages that are pointless. So are you saying that two teams in that situation to be allowed to just come out and just take a nap on the field for 90 min each and just go home? It's supposed to be a premier tournament. You're supposed to have respect for the game itself. Is the format imperfect? of course, but what format IS perfect? It's about being held to a higher standard because you are a professional. If some soccer team in a kiddy league game came out and didn't play because they were already knocked out, then no one really cares. But if some team did that in the World Cup and FIFA didn't take action, soccer fans would be FURIOUS. Same for any sports really. Respect the game you're playing. #2, It was very very short sighted of naniwa to do this. Sadly it's how the whole pro scene sort of is right now, and how naniwa has no real idea on how to really market himself. But if in the football season (for americans) in the last game of the season, if a player was playing less than his best on purpose, wouldn't that be devaluing himself? Shouldn't naniwa, especially after all the team finding struggles, at least TRY to show that he can be be mannered.... you know.. for when this contract expires? Even if quantic resigns him, it'd be beneficial to him if other teams were eager to sign him as well #3, Way to ruin your reputation in another country naniwa. I mean, honestly, i've read through the Korean forums, and most of the time they were like "Who the hell is this naniwa kid?" Most people didn't know the details of the MLG incident, and they know even less about his team being moved around a lot. This was an amazing chance for him to get a fresh start at another country, but he took that chance and blew it's brains out. #4, Completely wrong attitude. (Btw, broodwar reference coming.) Do you really think Flash wanted to play that game after he was handed a forfiet loss cause of the black out in the MLG against Jaedong? Do you think Silent_Control wanted to show up to that game, when he knew he was terribly sick, agianst GoRush where he fainted on national TV? Do you think GoRush really didn't want to take that free win he was offered? Do you think Jaedong really wouldn't have wanted another chance when his lurker bugged out? There are amazing number of cases where people are faced with imperfect situations. Isn't a professional supposed to be able to look past that and at least TRY your best, to do the right thing? Edit: spelling errors.... I'm sure there are still a few lol | ||
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lrofd
United States187 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:25 nqqvt3 wrote: Worst part is if Nestea did a 6 drone rush, everyone would have found it funny.... i bet he would have microed and tried to win, and then we would think it is funny | ||
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Pwnographics
New Zealand1097 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:23 Mashmed wrote: Show nested quote + On December 14 2011 22:21 Pwnographics wrote: On December 14 2011 22:20 mcc wrote: On December 14 2011 22:07 Pwnographics wrote: On December 14 2011 22:05 bikefrog wrote: On December 14 2011 21:59 harobi wrote: its good to always have standard, nice job GOM. just ignore this "i won't buy next gsl ticket " or "i will never watch gsl again" haters gonna hate. Yes, ignore a significant economic loss, Einstein. Significant? How many people watch the GSL purely for Naniwa alone? Korea which has the largest viewership of the GSL strongly support this decision. All in all it might increase the money GOM earns. You assume that only people that want to watch Naniwa will stop watching ? Maybe, but I definitely will not watch or pay anymore and I could care less about Naniwa in code S. Hypocrisy, stupidity and valuing pretend above honesty are things that irk me. Hypocrisy right? TL Naniwa interview: "So if you suffer a bad loss in the groups early on, do you think you can bounce back? It doesn't matter to me in other games if I win or lose the previous match, I just treat each match like it's the same thing, and give it my best. That question is meant either like this "If you get a bad placement in poolplay due to your bad results in group play will you still be able to win?" or "If you get taken out in group play will that make you play worse in other tournaments/games that might actually mean something?" He did not say that he would play his best during matches that have no meaning or could give him any money. Learn to read and comprehend shit.. No you need to learn comprehend shit. He said that it doesn't matter if he wins or loses the previous match. He'll treat each match as the same thing. i.e it wouldn't matter if he lost the previous 3 matches and was going 0-3. He'd still give it his best. | ||
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:21 MasterBlasterCaster wrote: Show nested quote + On December 14 2011 22:20 Silidons wrote: you guys just have to realize what this means to the top pros that play hard and practice everyday and weren't invited because they were not good enough. i think you all should read MKP's twitter post and realize that yes Nani did act VERY VERY unprofessionally and did not show any respect to the player, casters, or anyone involved in the production @MKPS2: I wonder what all the gamers who wanted to be in that position thought... I really wanted it too... I think all those top pros should get over themselves. Another NaNiwa I see, showing a complete lack of respect. It won't get you far in life my friend. | ||
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mage36
415 Posts
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redviper
Pakistan2333 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:19 Zanno wrote: you guys realize that you're basing your information off some random dude on twitter who happens to speak korean and english and doesn't know what he was talking about nani was seeded into code s now he is not Is this really true? No one from the korean invitees in Providence got seeded into the championship brackets right? So why is there a quid pro quo seed to code S? | ||
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Squeegy
Finland1166 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:21 Starcraftmazter wrote: What is most troubling to me, is that most people are completely missing the key issues here. My email to GOM: Show nested quote + Hello A few days ago, I purchased the GSL Premium Yearly Ticket (My account email address is the same as this and the same one as my PayPal account for verification). I am very unhappy with your completely unprofessional decision to punish Naniwa for doing nothing wrong against the rules, quite arbitrarily - while not punishing any Korean player, ever for any sort of "misbehavior". In particular the rule you are using as justification in regards to disrespect and offence of players can be used in many instances. For instance, in some GSTL, oGsMC went over and banged the both of his enemy player before the game. This is easily both offensive and disrespectful - yet no action was taken. This is but one prominent example, and I am not suggesting any action should have been taken; rather I am pointing out the unprofessional arbitrary enforcement of that rule, which seems to be applied against foreigners only. Furthermore, I find the insulting slur of "Mr Chae" on Naniwa very unprofessional and ill conceived, this along with other previous events clearly shows your bias against non-Korean players and casters. Overall, I am rather angered by the precedent that this sets, allowing GoMTV to disqualify, remove and otherwise take action against players based entirely on what you believe to be some form of bad play. Looking back at Blizzard Cup, LiquidHero also played very poorly (but unlike Naniwai who showed very impressive games, I would say all of Hero's games were very bad), and his last two games especially were very amateur in nature, as he stopped trying. This is not an objective matter either, and in particular in Hero's game against DRG, he have DRG a win - in a game which *actually mattered* to the outcome of the tournament, whereas the game between Naniwa and Nestea did not. I do not see any action taken again Hero for this? And I am a fan of Hero, but I am merely pointing out the double standards which exists in the GSL with Korean and non-Korean players. I cannot understand why you think the foreign audience doesn't see this - do you take us all for fools? My question is, where do you draw the line? What gives you the right to draw it arbitrarily so? And at what stage can a player be kicked out for cheesing? Why are certain types of cheese ok (like 6pool) whereas others not? Naniwai could have just as easily 4gated or cannon rushed and lost - all that would have achieved is wasting more of everyone's time. I would argue that in not wasting said time that Naniwai actually has far more respect for viewers and fans than you do, so I find your decision very arbitrary and reckless. Why for instance was BitbybitPrime not punished using this very same rule? Naniwa works extremely hard, practising more than the vast majority of players (Korean and non-Korean alike) to play the best games for his fans. This is more than I can say about what BitbyBit did - and the same goes for many other players over time. To then be punished and be insulted like so, is extremely unjustifiable. You clearly do not understand that people are all different, and some get quite emotional in some situations. Next is the issue of MLG seeds into GSL code S. You have now broken your partnership with MLG, as you have failed to keep your end of the bargain. This is a further slap in the face to foreigners and foreign tournaments. Even if Naniwa's seed eventually gets replaced by another foreigner, that doesn't change the fact that you are illegitimising a foreign tournament by taking away it's right to seed a player into GSL Code S, and instead stealing that decision for yourselves. It has also come to my attention that you have deleted comments you have made about revoking Naniwai's code S seed claiming he never had it. This does not exactly add to your credibility, as it is not exactly a secret that he did. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-program The rules are stated very clearly, he earned his code S spot in Providence. I am unsure why you would try to claim he did not - again, do you take foreigners for complete idiots? You must understand, at this stage this is far beyond the Naniwa vs Nestea game. Now the bias of GomTV against foreigners as well as the behaviour of the tournament organisers to do whatever they want regardless of the rules is put in question. Furthermore on that note, you have taken a complete lack of responsibility for designing a tournament system which allows for meaningless games that don't have any result on any outcome. In conclusion, I am very displeased with this. I have supported the GSL and payed for virtually every season and event single since I first learned about it in 2010. Even these days, I end up defending GomTV from all the bad comments about the stream quality being far worse than MLG and Dreamhack - even on "HD". I really love Tastosis and always tune in to watch them cast regardless of who's playing. But this is really the last straw for me, I cannot possibly support you any longer as it seems to me that you have lost your integrity. Unless you plan to fully reverse your decision to take Naniwai's code S spot, or hand out any meaningful punishment in general (perhaps you can make it as meaningless as the game for which he was punished?), I request a full refund. If this refund is not given, or this email disregarded, I will take it up with PayPal. As the year 2012 has not even started yet, I am sure there is zero argument against getting a full refund. Lastly, being a long-term supporter, I appreciate this email be passed to some form of management so that my feelings be conveyed to them - as I believe I have made a lot of good arguments, which really deserve to be thought about by the management of the GSL. Thank You --- That email made me facepalm. It is that full of stupid. Particularly on those parts about bias against foreigners and PayPal refund. Good luck with the latter (it actually made me chuckle a little). | ||
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buzzkill568
Canada56 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:21 Starcraftmazter wrote: What is most troubling to me, is that most people are completely missing the key issues here. My email to GOM: Show nested quote + Hello A few days ago, I purchased the GSL Premium Yearly Ticket (My account email address is the same as this and the same one as my PayPal account for verification). I am very unhappy with your completely unprofessional decision to punish Naniwa for doing nothing wrong against the rules, quite arbitrarily - while not punishing any Korean player, ever for any sort of "misbehavior". In particular the rule you are using as justification in regards to disrespect and offence of players can be used in many instances. For instance, in some GSTL, oGsMC went over and banged the both of his enemy player before the game. This is easily both offensive and disrespectful - yet no action was taken. This is but one prominent example, and I am not suggesting any action should have been taken; rather I am pointing out the unprofessional arbitrary enforcement of that rule, which seems to be applied against foreigners only. Furthermore, I find the insulting slur of "Mr Chae" on Naniwa very unprofessional and ill conceived, this along with other previous events clearly shows your bias against non-Korean players and casters. Overall, I am rather angered by the precedent that this sets, allowing GoMTV to disqualify, remove and otherwise take action against players based entirely on what you believe to be some form of bad play. Looking back at Blizzard Cup, LiquidHero also played very poorly (but unlike Naniwai who showed very impressive games, I would say all of Hero's games were very bad), and his last two games especially were very amateur in nature, as he stopped trying. This is not an objective matter either, and in particular in Hero's game against DRG, he have DRG a win - in a game which *actually mattered* to the outcome of the tournament, whereas the game between Naniwa and Nestea did not. I do not see any action taken again Hero for this? And I am a fan of Hero, but I am merely pointing out the double standards which exists in the GSL with Korean and non-Korean players. I cannot understand why you think the foreign audience doesn't see this - do you take us all for fools? My question is, where do you draw the line? What gives you the right to draw it arbitrarily so? And at what stage can a player be kicked out for cheesing? Why are certain types of cheese ok (like 6pool) whereas others not? Naniwai could have just as easily 4gated or cannon rushed and lost - all that would have achieved is wasting more of everyone's time. I would argue that in not wasting said time that Naniwai actually has far more respect for viewers and fans than you do, so I find your decision very arbitrary and reckless. Why for instance was BitbybitPrime not punished using this very same rule? Naniwa works extremely hard, practising more than the vast majority of players (Korean and non-Korean alike) to play the best games for his fans. This is more than I can say about what BitbyBit did - and the same goes for many other players over time. To then be punished and be insulted like so, is extremely unjustifiable. You clearly do not understand that people are all different, and some get quite emotional in some situations. Next is the issue of MLG seeds into GSL code S. You have now broken your partnership with MLG, as you have failed to keep your end of the bargain. This is a further slap in the face to foreigners and foreign tournaments. Even if Naniwa's seed eventually gets replaced by another foreigner, that doesn't change the fact that you are illegitimising a foreign tournament by taking away it's right to seed a player into GSL Code S, and instead stealing that decision for yourselves. It has also come to my attention that you have deleted comments you have made about revoking Naniwai's code S seed claiming he never had it. This does not exactly add to your credibility, as it is not exactly a secret that he did. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-program The rules are stated very clearly, he earned his code S spot in Providence. I am unsure why you would try to claim he did not - again, do you take foreigners for complete idiots? You must understand, at this stage this is far beyond the Naniwa vs Nestea game. Now the bias of GomTV against foreigners as well as the behaviour of the tournament organisers to do whatever they want regardless of the rules is put in question. Furthermore on that note, you have taken a complete lack of responsibility for designing a tournament system which allows for meaningless games that don't have any result on any outcome. In conclusion, I am very displeased with this. I have supported the GSL and payed for virtually every season and event single since I first learned about it in 2010. Even these days, I end up defending GomTV from all the bad comments about the stream quality being far worse than MLG and Dreamhack - even on "HD". I really love Tastosis and always tune in to watch them cast regardless of who's playing. But this is really the last straw for me, I cannot possibly support you any longer as it seems to me that you have lost your integrity. Unless you plan to fully reverse your decision to take Naniwai's code S spot, or hand out any meaningful punishment in general (perhaps you can make it as meaningless as the game for which he was punished?), I request a full refund. If this refund is not given, or this email disregarded, I will take it up with PayPal. As the year 2012 has not even started yet, I am sure there is zero argument against getting a full refund. Lastly, being a long-term supporter, I appreciate this email be passed to some form of management so that my feelings be conveyed to them - as I believe I have made a lot of good arguments, which really deserve to be thought about by the management of the GSL. Thank You --- The sad part is. I read all of that. The even sadder part is that you didn't. Because you are a complete idiot if you did. Gomtv HAD to do something. Please just stfu and read your own shitty wall of text next time. | ||
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trucane
United States553 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:24 archonOOid wrote: why wasn't his team-mate SaSe offered the code S spot or his fellow countryman Morrow? Feels like GOM might hold a grudge vs swedes... I might contact the local embassy to see whether that's the case. It also feels like GOM tried to set naniwa up because they know that he has a temper. I could go on and on about GOM/GSL and I have to say that they are conducting their business very fishy. Haven't even thought about that but that is a good point now that you mention it. They take the spot from a swede and give it ao an american? Sase or Morrow would be a better choice and prove that they aren't favoring certain countries. I certainly can smell a faint scent of racism coming from GOM right now | ||
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kazie
258 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:24 drepnir wrote: So this is wrong? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Providence NaNiwa는 애초에 코드S 시드가 아니었습니다. '만약 어제 그런 행동이 없었다면 시드를 줄 수 있었을지도 모른다'가 맞습니다. 많은 분들이 MLG프로비던스에서 코드S 시드가 나온 것으로 알고 계시지만 없었습니다. #GSL #SC2 says "naniwa wasn't a code s seed. "if he didnt probe rush then he might have gotten seed" is right. a lot of people think mlg providence produced code s seed but it wasnt so (unclear if he is talking about naniwa or just in general)" | ||
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