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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 14 2011 22:21 Starcraftmazter wrote:What is most troubling to me, is that most people are completely missing the key issues here. My email to GOM: Show nested quote +Hello A few days ago, I purchased the GSL Premium Yearly Ticket (My account email address is the same as this and the same one as my PayPal account for verification). I am very unhappy with your completely unprofessional decision to punish Naniwa for doing nothing wrong against the rules, quite arbitrarily - while not punishing any Korean player, ever for any sort of "misbehavior". In particular the rule you are using as justification in regards to disrespect and offence of players can be used in many instances. For instance, in some GSTL, oGsMC went over and banged the both of his enemy player before the game. This is easily both offensive and disrespectful - yet no action was taken. This is but one prominent example, and I am not suggesting any action should have been taken; rather I am pointing out the unprofessional arbitrary enforcement of that rule, which seems to be applied against foreigners only. Furthermore, I find the insulting slur of "Mr Chae" on Naniwa very unprofessional and ill conceived, this along with other previous events clearly shows your bias against non-Korean players and casters. Overall, I am rather angered by the precedent that this sets, allowing GoMTV to disqualify, remove and otherwise take action against players based entirely on what you believe to be some form of bad play. Looking back at Blizzard Cup, LiquidHero also played very poorly (but unlike Naniwai who showed very impressive games, I would say all of Hero's games were very bad), and his last two games especially were very amateur in nature, as he stopped trying. This is not an objective matter either, and in particular in Hero's game against DRG, he have DRG a win - in a game which *actually mattered* to the outcome of the tournament, whereas the game between Naniwa and Nestea did not. I do not see any action taken again Hero for this? And I am a fan of Hero, but I am merely pointing out the double standards which exists in the GSL with Korean and non-Korean players. I cannot understand why you think the foreign audience doesn't see this - do you take us all for fools? My question is, where do you draw the line? What gives you the right to draw it arbitrarily so? And at what stage can a player be kicked out for cheesing? Why are certain types of cheese ok (like 6pool) whereas others not? Naniwai could have just as easily 4gated or cannon rushed and lost - all that would have achieved is wasting more of everyone's time. I would argue that in not wasting said time that Naniwai actually has far more respect for viewers and fans than you do, so I find your decision very arbitrary and reckless. Why for instance was BitbybitPrime not punished using this very same rule? Naniwa works extremely hard, practising more than the vast majority of players (Korean and non-Korean alike) to play the best games for his fans. This is more than I can say about what BitbyBit did - and the same goes for many other players over time. To then be punished and be insulted like so, is extremely unjustifiable. You clearly do not understand that people are all different, and some get quite emotional in some situations. Next is the issue of MLG seeds into GSL code S. You have now broken your partnership with MLG, as you have failed to keep your end of the bargain. This is a further slap in the face to foreigners and foreign tournaments. Even if Naniwa's seed eventually gets replaced by another foreigner, that doesn't change the fact that you are illegitimising a foreign tournament by taking away it's right to seed a player into GSL Code S, and instead stealing that decision for yourselves. It has also come to my attention that you have deleted comments you have made about revoking Naniwai's code S seed claiming he never had it. This does not exactly add to your credibility, as it is not exactly a secret that he did. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-programThe rules are stated very clearly, he earned his code S spot in Providence. I am unsure why you would try to claim he did not - again, do you take foreigners for complete idiots? You must understand, at this stage this is far beyond the Naniwa vs Nestea game. Now the bias of GomTV against foreigners as well as the behaviour of the tournament organisers to do whatever they want regardless of the rules is put in question. Furthermore on that note, you have taken a complete lack of responsibility for designing a tournament system which allows for meaningless games that don't have any result on any outcome. In conclusion, I am very displeased with this. I have supported the GSL and payed for virtually every season and event single since I first learned about it in 2010. Even these days, I end up defending GomTV from all the bad comments about the stream quality being far worse than MLG and Dreamhack - even on "HD". I really love Tastosis and always tune in to watch them cast regardless of who's playing. But this is really the last straw for me, I cannot possibly support you any longer as it seems to me that you have lost your integrity. Unless you plan to fully reverse your decision to take Naniwai's code S spot, or hand out any meaningful punishment in general (perhaps you can make it as meaningless as the game for which he was punished?), I request a full refund. If this refund is not given, or this email disregarded, I will take it up with PayPal. As the year 2012 has not even started yet, I am sure there is zero argument against getting a full refund. Lastly, being a long-term supporter, I appreciate this email be passed to some form of management so that my feelings be conveyed to them - as I believe I have made a lot of good arguments, which really deserve to be thought about by the management of the GSL. Thank You ---
I hope you got your facts straight before sending that email 
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On December 14 2011 22:21 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:20 mcc wrote:On December 14 2011 22:07 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 22:05 bikefrog wrote:On December 14 2011 21:59 harobi wrote:
its good to always have standard, nice job GOM. just ignore this "i won't buy next gsl ticket " or "i will never watch gsl again" haters gonna hate. Yes, ignore a significant economic loss, Einstein. Significant? How many people watch the GSL purely for Naniwa alone? Korea which has the largest viewership of the GSL strongly support this decision. All in all it might increase the money GOM earns. You assume that only people that want to watch Naniwa will stop watching ? Maybe, but I definitely will not watch or pay anymore and I could care less about Naniwa in code S. Hypocrisy, stupidity and valuing pretend above honesty are things that irk me. Hypocrisy right? TL Naniwa interview: "So if you suffer a bad loss in the groups early on, do you think you can bounce back? It doesn't matter to me in other games if I win or lose the previous match, I just treat each match like it's the same thing, and give it my best.
He clearly rarely encountered a tournament that made a player play another player with absolutely nothing at stake. Way to attempt to redefine what the word hypocrisy means.
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On December 14 2011 22:19 yFot wrote:
So if the monkey doesnt want to dance, does it deserve to die?
no but it doesnt deserve to be on a stage with an audience expecting it to dance
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On December 14 2011 22:21 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:20 mcc wrote:On December 14 2011 22:07 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 22:05 bikefrog wrote:On December 14 2011 21:59 harobi wrote:
its good to always have standard, nice job GOM. just ignore this "i won't buy next gsl ticket " or "i will never watch gsl again" haters gonna hate. Yes, ignore a significant economic loss, Einstein. Significant? How many people watch the GSL purely for Naniwa alone? Korea which has the largest viewership of the GSL strongly support this decision. All in all it might increase the money GOM earns. You assume that only people that want to watch Naniwa will stop watching ? Maybe, but I definitely will not watch or pay anymore and I could care less about Naniwa in code S. Hypocrisy, stupidity and valuing pretend above honesty are things that irk me. Hypocrisy right? TL Naniwa interview: "So if you suffer a bad loss in the groups early on, do you think you can bounce back? It doesn't matter to me in other games if I win or lose the previous match, I just treat each match like it's the same thing, and give it my best.
That question is meant either like this "If you get a bad placement in poolplay due to your bad results in group play will you still be able to win?" or "If you get taken out in group play will that make you play worse in other tournaments/games that might actually mean something?" He did not say that he would play his best during matches that have no meaning or could give him any money. Learn to read and comprehend shit..
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On December 14 2011 22:20 Silidons wrote:you guys just have to realize what this means to the top pros that play hard and practice everyday and weren't invited because they were not good enough. i think you all should read MKP's twitter post and realize that yes Nani did act VERY VERY unprofessionally and did not show any respect to the player, casters, or anyone involved in the production Show nested quote +
@MKPS2: I wonder what all the gamers who wanted to be in that position thought... I really wanted it too...
For the tenth time. It wasn't an invitational he EARNED his spot in Blizzcup. o,o MKP should have done better in his tournaments to get his spot instead of QQing on twitter.
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On December 14 2011 22:21 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:17 HappyChris wrote:On December 14 2011 22:09 Zzoram wrote:On December 14 2011 22:08 HappyChris wrote:On December 14 2011 22:06 ethos wrote:
What is so difficult about this.
Naniwa was disrespectful. Naniwa was sent to the corner.
You shouldn't be sad for Naniwa, you should be sad that it seems that esports has to raise other people's children.
You don't get on their stage and then in the middle of it decide not to play by their rules because your feelings are hurt, and then get away with it scot-free (this isn't even that big of a punishment, its only a month, unless I'm mistaken).
Gom has to be sure that the decisions that they make for the sake of the fans (format) are adhered to by the players that take their stage, even when you get the shitty end of the stick.
We all have to sacrifice sometimes.
Such is (adult) life.
Naniwa gets a free pass why? Because you like him? Naniwa won his spot like DRG and MMA did before him. What did Idra and Sen win to win claim that Code S spot? Idra won IEM. Sen beat Naniwa to take 3rd place at Blizzcon behind MVP and Nestea. Dude they dont got a fuckign exchange program with GSL do they? MLG got an exchange program. MMA and DRG won there code S spot true that so did Naniwa. You get it. No exchange program for Providence.
Stop spreading rumors, MLG clearly says he was given the spot, but some random guy on twitter says differently and you believe him?
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I am very disappointed with this decision to be honest ... If a player wants to worker rush he should be allowed to do so xx
anyway, in my opinion Naniwa himself tweeted a very valid point: "i can understand if fans got upset but neither of us had anything on stake and wouldnt play our best."
It's more the fault of this tournament system, allowing such a meaningless match between to player that have already to deal with the knowledge that they are already out of this important tournament.
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On December 14 2011 22:13 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:07 oban wrote:On December 14 2011 21:53 shadymmj wrote:On December 14 2011 21:50 oban wrote:
Way too harsh of a punishment. GOM really are amateurs in every way possible and not worthy of hosting internatoinal tournaments. They fucked over Stephano last time when MC seemed to play to have DRG move to the next round. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the issue is racism. yes swedish genius disqualify a misbehaving white dude and invite another white dude to play totally racist I've seen people misbehaving plenty of times in the GSL. Not to mention Idra forfeiting games, but apparently it's fine when Americans and Koreans do it, probably due to their partnership with MLG. Idra even put Zenio in the same group as MC and laughed about it afterwards. And he gets invited back into code S? Do you call that sportsmanship? Gom is a joke organization. I'm sure racism is a big part of their decisions in the last few days. You gotta be kidding me, you can't seriously be this stupid. You're allowed to forfeit games. Doesn't matter if you're korean or American or Swedish. Can you even say, with a straight face, that you believe GOM are racist towards swedes, but not Americans? Because that's seriously the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
You are allowed to forfeit games now? Or did you mean aren't?
I can't explain why they let Idra get away with everything he does, probably because he is the only decent player from the US and has a big fan base. Fact is they are using different standards when it comes to Nani. If not racism then tell me what it's about.
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On December 14 2011 22:21 NHY wrote:
No exchange program for Providence.
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/naniwas-ascension
"Ultimately he dropped the following four games, and despite not being crowned champion, Naniwa has presented one of the most captivating weeks imaginable, both in and out of the game. In the last week, Naniwa has rage quit of of a GSL match, flown half-way around the world, defeated the two most successful Korean Starcraft 2 players back-to-back, sparked a rivalry with Nestea, been the center of controversy in a rematch against Nestea, let a National Championship slip through his fingers and earned a seat in Code S. "
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Yeah, Time to subscribe GOM premium now
Thanks GOM for taking fans seriously <3
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why wasn't his team-mate SaSe offered the code S spot or his fellow countryman Morrow? Feels like GOM might hold a grudge vs swedes... I might contact the local embassy to see whether that's the case. It also feels like GOM tried to set naniwa up because they know that he has a temper. I could go on and on about GOM/GSL and I have to say that they are conducting their business very fishy.
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On December 14 2011 22:23 justinpal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:21 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 22:20 mcc wrote:On December 14 2011 22:07 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 22:05 bikefrog wrote:On December 14 2011 21:59 harobi wrote:
its good to always have standard, nice job GOM. just ignore this "i won't buy next gsl ticket " or "i will never watch gsl again" haters gonna hate. Yes, ignore a significant economic loss, Einstein. Significant? How many people watch the GSL purely for Naniwa alone? Korea which has the largest viewership of the GSL strongly support this decision. All in all it might increase the money GOM earns. You assume that only people that want to watch Naniwa will stop watching ? Maybe, but I definitely will not watch or pay anymore and I could care less about Naniwa in code S. Hypocrisy, stupidity and valuing pretend above honesty are things that irk me. Hypocrisy right? TL Naniwa interview: "So if you suffer a bad loss in the groups early on, do you think you can bounce back? It doesn't matter to me in other games if I win or lose the previous match, I just treat each match like it's the same thing, and give it my best. He clearly rarely encountered a tournament that made a player play another player with absolutely nothing at stake. Way to attempt to redefine what the word hypocrisy means.
What does that have anything to do with it? He said he'd suffer a bad loss at the groups early on he'd still give it his best. Is 7 probe rushing without using a keyboard his best?
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Oh this is not the answer. This hurts the fans as well as Naniwa. The correct response would be one that only hurts naniwa, such as a fine. But now he has to back through code A. Bad decision GOM, punish the player not the fans.
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That is harsh, but that's what you get I guess :/ Im not the biggest fan of naniwa but still this doesnt feel right to me
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On December 14 2011 22:21 Starcraftmazter wrote:What is most troubling to me, is that most people are completely missing the key issues here. My email to GOM: Show nested quote +Hello A few days ago, I purchased the GSL Premium Yearly Ticket (My account email address is the same as this and the same one as my PayPal account for verification). I am very unhappy with your completely unprofessional decision to punish Naniwa for doing nothing wrong against the rules, quite arbitrarily - while not punishing any Korean player, ever for any sort of "misbehavior". In particular the rule you are using as justification in regards to disrespect and offence of players can be used in many instances. For instance, in some GSTL, oGsMC went over and banged the both of his enemy player before the game. This is easily both offensive and disrespectful - yet no action was taken. This is but one prominent example, and I am not suggesting any action should have been taken; rather I am pointing out the unprofessional arbitrary enforcement of that rule, which seems to be applied against foreigners only. Furthermore, I find the insulting slur of "Mr Chae" on Naniwa very unprofessional and ill conceived, this along with other previous events clearly shows your bias against non-Korean players and casters. Overall, I am rather angered by the precedent that this sets, allowing GoMTV to disqualify, remove and otherwise take action against players based entirely on what you believe to be some form of bad play. Looking back at Blizzard Cup, LiquidHero also played very poorly (but unlike Naniwai who showed very impressive games, I would say all of Hero's games were very bad), and his last two games especially were very amateur in nature, as he stopped trying. This is not an objective matter either, and in particular in Hero's game against DRG, he have DRG a win - in a game which *actually mattered* to the outcome of the tournament, whereas the game between Naniwa and Nestea did not. I do not see any action taken again Hero for this? And I am a fan of Hero, but I am merely pointing out the double standards which exists in the GSL with Korean and non-Korean players. I cannot understand why you think the foreign audience doesn't see this - do you take us all for fools? My question is, where do you draw the line? What gives you the right to draw it arbitrarily so? And at what stage can a player be kicked out for cheesing? Why are certain types of cheese ok (like 6pool) whereas others not? Naniwai could have just as easily 4gated or cannon rushed and lost - all that would have achieved is wasting more of everyone's time. I would argue that in not wasting said time that Naniwai actually has far more respect for viewers and fans than you do, so I find your decision very arbitrary and reckless. Why for instance was BitbybitPrime not punished using this very same rule? Naniwa works extremely hard, practising more than the vast majority of players (Korean and non-Korean alike) to play the best games for his fans. This is more than I can say about what BitbyBit did - and the same goes for many other players over time. To then be punished and be insulted like so, is extremely unjustifiable. You clearly do not understand that people are all different, and some get quite emotional in some situations. Next is the issue of MLG seeds into GSL code S. You have now broken your partnership with MLG, as you have failed to keep your end of the bargain. This is a further slap in the face to foreigners and foreign tournaments. Even if Naniwa's seed eventually gets replaced by another foreigner, that doesn't change the fact that you are illegitimising a foreign tournament by taking away it's right to seed a player into GSL Code S, and instead stealing that decision for yourselves. It has also come to my attention that you have deleted comments you have made about revoking Naniwai's code S seed claiming he never had it. This does not exactly add to your credibility, as it is not exactly a secret that he did. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-programThe rules are stated very clearly, he earned his code S spot in Providence. I am unsure why you would try to claim he did not - again, do you take foreigners for complete idiots? You must understand, at this stage this is far beyond the Naniwa vs Nestea game. Now the bias of GomTV against foreigners as well as the behaviour of the tournament organisers to do whatever they want regardless of the rules is put in question. Furthermore on that note, you have taken a complete lack of responsibility for designing a tournament system which allows for meaningless games that don't have any result on any outcome. In conclusion, I am very displeased with this. I have supported the GSL and payed for virtually every season and event single since I first learned about it in 2010. Even these days, I end up defending GomTV from all the bad comments about the stream quality being far worse than MLG and Dreamhack - even on "HD". I really love Tastosis and always tune in to watch them cast regardless of who's playing. But this is really the last straw for me, I cannot possibly support you any longer as it seems to me that you have lost your integrity. Unless you plan to fully reverse your decision to take Naniwai's code S spot, or hand out any meaningful punishment in general (perhaps you can make it as meaningless as the game for which he was punished?), I request a full refund. If this refund is not given, or this email disregarded, I will take it up with PayPal. As the year 2012 has not even started yet, I am sure there is zero argument against getting a full refund. Lastly, being a long-term supporter, I appreciate this email be passed to some form of management so that my feelings be conveyed to them - as I believe I have made a lot of good arguments, which really deserve to be thought about by the management of the GSL. Thank You ---
Lol man, you have no clue. There is no valid arguments in this letter. Your text is obviously biased and your examples bad.
You can either expect no answer or a very polite "you got no clue" answer.
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So what koreans want it unified antlike behaviour to me that is not entertaiment its just sad.. korean pros are so robotlike they only have their skills.. and bm behind twitter ofc.
Not happy about this but life goes on happy for idra thou.
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Worst part is if Nestea did a 6 drone rush, everyone would have found it funny....
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Where did Idra forfeit a GSL game or wrose willingly lose one in an obvious way?
Oh yeah, nowhere... Clearly doublestandards!
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Ya because no Koreans were seeded into the championship bracket.
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I cant believe ppl are actually upset that Naniwa got suspended. The guy had it coming. It's a RULE, that you cannot throw matches. You think just cuz he's a foreigner he should be an exception? Who cares if Naniwa is out, hes not even as good as people make him out to be, he couldnt make it passed the first round of Code A, then he beats some jetlagged players at mlg global and then people have this illusion that hes one of the best players in the world, but reality kicks in and he gets dumpstered by Leenock at providence, gets put in the bin at Dreamhack, and trashed 0-4 at Blizzcup. People are crying that hes suspended? Who gives a fuck.
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EPT
