EPTNaNiwa not invited to Code S - Page 142
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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people. Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned! - Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM - Comparing people to Hitler - Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. | ||
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Sluggy
United States128 Posts
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IMPrime
United States715 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:19 Sethronu wrote: Naniwa was paid to play in that tournament too, actually. He was paid based on what his standing was. Getting knocked out of pool play gave the same amount of money, whether you were 4th or 5th. IN that sense he was not paid to play his last game. | ||
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Pwnographics
New Zealand1097 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:20 mcc wrote: You assume that only people that want to watch Naniwa will stop watching ? Maybe, but I definitely will not watch or pay anymore and I could care less about Naniwa in code S. Hypocrisy, stupidity and valuing pretend above honesty are things that irk me. Hypocrisy right? TL Naniwa interview: "So if you suffer a bad loss in the groups early on, do you think you can bounce back? It doesn't matter to me in other games if I win or lose the previous match, I just treat each match like it's the same thing, and give it my best. | ||
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Starcraftmazter
Australia71 Posts
My email to GOM: Hello A few days ago, I purchased the GSL Premium Yearly Ticket (My account email address is the same as this and the same one as my PayPal account for verification). I am very unhappy with your completely unprofessional decision to punish Naniwa for doing nothing wrong against the rules, quite arbitrarily - while not punishing any Korean player, ever for any sort of "misbehavior". In particular the rule you are using as justification in regards to disrespect and offence of players can be used in many instances. For instance, in some GSTL, oGsMC went over and banged the both of his enemy player before the game. This is easily both offensive and disrespectful - yet no action was taken. This is but one prominent example, and I am not suggesting any action should have been taken; rather I am pointing out the unprofessional arbitrary enforcement of that rule, which seems to be applied against foreigners only. Furthermore, I find the insulting slur of "Mr Chae" on Naniwa very unprofessional and ill conceived, this along with other previous events clearly shows your bias against non-Korean players and casters. Overall, I am rather angered by the precedent that this sets, allowing GoMTV to disqualify, remove and otherwise take action against players based entirely on what you believe to be some form of bad play. Looking back at Blizzard Cup, LiquidHero also played very poorly (but unlike Naniwai who showed very impressive games, I would say all of Hero's games were very bad), and his last two games especially were very amateur in nature, as he stopped trying. This is not an objective matter either, and in particular in Hero's game against DRG, he have DRG a win - in a game which *actually mattered* to the outcome of the tournament, whereas the game between Naniwa and Nestea did not. I do not see any action taken again Hero for this? And I am a fan of Hero, but I am merely pointing out the double standards which exists in the GSL with Korean and non-Korean players. I cannot understand why you think the foreign audience doesn't see this - do you take us all for fools? My question is, where do you draw the line? What gives you the right to draw it arbitrarily so? And at what stage can a player be kicked out for cheesing? Why are certain types of cheese ok (like 6pool) whereas others not? Naniwai could have just as easily 4gated or cannon rushed and lost - all that would have achieved is wasting more of everyone's time. I would argue that in not wasting said time that Naniwai actually has far more respect for viewers and fans than you do, so I find your decision very arbitrary and reckless. Why for instance was BitbybitPrime not punished using this very same rule? Naniwa works extremely hard, practising more than the vast majority of players (Korean and non-Korean alike) to play the best games for his fans. This is more than I can say about what BitbyBit did - and the same goes for many other players over time. To then be punished and be insulted like so, is extremely unjustifiable. You clearly do not understand that people are all different, and some get quite emotional in some situations. Next is the issue of MLG seeds into GSL code S. You have now broken your partnership with MLG, as you have failed to keep your end of the bargain. This is a further slap in the face to foreigners and foreign tournaments. Even if Naniwa's seed eventually gets replaced by another foreigner, that doesn't change the fact that you are illegitimising a foreign tournament by taking away it's right to seed a player into GSL Code S, and instead stealing that decision for yourselves. It has also come to my attention that you have deleted comments you have made about revoking Naniwai's code S seed claiming he never had it. This does not exactly add to your credibility, as it is not exactly a secret that he did. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-program The rules are stated very clearly, he earned his code S spot in Providence. I am unsure why you would try to claim he did not - again, do you take foreigners for complete idiots? You must understand, at this stage this is far beyond the Naniwa vs Nestea game. Now the bias of GomTV against foreigners as well as the behaviour of the tournament organisers to do whatever they want regardless of the rules is put in question. Furthermore on that note, you have taken a complete lack of responsibility for designing a tournament system which allows for meaningless games that don't have any result on any outcome. In conclusion, I am very displeased with this. I have supported the GSL and payed for virtually every season and event single since I first learned about it in 2010. Even these days, I end up defending GomTV from all the bad comments about the stream quality being far worse than MLG and Dreamhack - even on "HD". I really love Tastosis and always tune in to watch them cast regardless of who's playing. But this is really the last straw for me, I cannot possibly support you any longer as it seems to me that you have lost your integrity. Unless you plan to fully reverse your decision to take Naniwai's code S spot, or hand out any meaningful punishment in general (perhaps you can make it as meaningless as the game for which he was punished?), I request a full refund. If this refund is not given, or this email disregarded, I will take it up with PayPal. As the year 2012 has not even started yet, I am sure there is zero argument against getting a full refund. Lastly, being a long-term supporter, I appreciate this email be passed to some form of management so that my feelings be conveyed to them - as I believe I have made a lot of good arguments, which really deserve to be thought about by the management of the GSL. Thank You --- | ||
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drinkpepsi
United States16 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:20 careohx wrote: Bow down to the almighty GOM they can ban anyone who is not Korean for no reason from the most "prestigious" SC2 tournament in the world Spruced that up for you. | ||
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NHY
1013 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:17 HappyChris wrote: Dude they dont got a fuckign exchange program with GSL do they? MLG got an exchange program. MMA and DRG won there code S spot true that so did Naniwa. You get it. No exchange program for Providence. | ||
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Biane
Australia645 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:20 careohx wrote: Bow down to the almighty GOM they can apparently do whatever they want. Well it is their tournament... | ||
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MasterBlasterCaster
United States568 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:20 Silidons wrote: you guys just have to realize what this means to the top pros that play hard and practice everyday and weren't invited because they were not good enough. i think you all should read MKP's twitter post and realize that yes Nani did act VERY VERY unprofessionally and did not show any respect to the player, casters, or anyone involved in the production I think all those top pros should get over themselves. | ||
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muNsu
Italy37 Posts
This is retarded to say the least, in other sports you don't get banned from competitions for doing something completely legal. I won't be buying tickets anymore (I bought them since season 1). If they really wanted to do something they could have not given him money from blizzcup, or maybe halved money from this gsl season code s for him. That's what happens in football, when you actually do something ILLEGAL (outside of the game obviously.) You don't get banned from PLAYING the game. This game is a joke and so are the people running the tournaments, it's not about a solid league or good games, it's just about pleasing you kids, inviting your heroes and doing whatever you want them to, is this what you call "PROFESSIONAL?" This is something I wrote yesterday also: It's just disgusting how you hypocrites hate on Naniwa for nothing. Let's sum this up so even you can understand what you are all crying about. Naniwa had just lost to a really bad executed cheese, if he had won vs MMA who played plat level he could have passed the group. He was disappointed in himself, he had 3 close games vs good player and he was out already. He had to play a game that everyone expected as "THE FINAL GRUDGE MATCH GET YOUR GLOVES ON BLOOD IS GONNA RAIN" or something like that. That was not gonna happen, neither from his side nor from nestea's. He could have 1)used a cheese build or 2)try to play a standard game at probably less than half of his real strenght. That was the same for nestea of course, he would have probably thrown in a cheesy build (I think he admitted this). Naniwa just wanted not to waste his time nor his fans, he wanted this grudge match to actually happen where it counts, so it could be what it was hyped to be. But you don't seem to understand this, since hating on naniwa is what cool teamliquid and reddit kids have been doing for quite some time now. Also, let me remind you what has happened in the past and this drama never happened. For example Idra being bad mannered to everyone, in official games, GG'ing when the fans were already hyped and in the middle of a game. ITS BETTER FOR HIS MENTALITY you said, and that was in the middle of games that actually meant something. Stephano throwing games when they actually mattered for the rest of the group he was in, nobody said shit, because you just see what you want to see. Nestea playing for fun in a showmatch (remember the gsl allstars something? I recall you had to pay for that too), then he lost to huk and everybody defended him because hey, doing dumb shit was fine because he's nestea and booo huk why would you tryhard when there's nothing on the line? I could go on but you probably don't have the brain to understand/don't want to understand what's happening, just stop talking about naniwa not being worth to be called a progamer because you just don't have any right from your nothingness to trash someone's hard work like that. And also, if something like this gets him penalized somehow then it just shows how much of a joke esports is. | ||
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Kfish
Chile282 Posts
First time something like this happens in GomTV at least for starcraft 2 and naniwa has been made an example for the others who one day would have done the same. It sucks that he got it rough but gom had to do it, it would have been worse for them if nothing was done since all the reactions in korea and alot of foreign reactions were negative about that game. | ||
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SasukeStreams
Netherlands174 Posts
Darn you GomTV and your crappy tournament formats. Best of 1, seriously? Sure the production and entertainment value is great, and GSL is still a very prestegious tournament, but if you want players to behave like true (e-)sportsmen you should make it a true (e-)sports tournament first. You screw the viewers over way more with your best of ones then Naniwa does with a probe rush. I can not and will not accept this decision and won't buy a GSL ticket for next season. I am by no means a Naniwa fanboy but this is just a rediculous move. | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:19 Zanno wrote: you guys realize that you're basing your information off some random dude on twitter who happens to speak korean and english and doesn't know what he was talking about nani was seeded into code s now he is not Who were the GSL invites that were placed into the championship bracket for MLG Providence as part of the exchange? (hint: there were none) | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:20 Silidons wrote: you guys just have to realize what this means to the top pros that play hard and practice everyday and weren't invited because they were not good enough. i think you all should read MKP's twitter post and realize that yes Nani did act VERY VERY unprofessionally and did not show any respect to the player, casters, or anyone involved in the production Did you notice his first 3 games that he played on extremely high level and gave it his best evidently. Nnaiwa also wanted to be there and played his best to advance. | ||
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Reasonable
Ukraine1432 Posts
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Haplo
Germany67 Posts
It feels dumb to ban some kind of play. What about 2 port banshee feels disrespectful to me aswell! | ||
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careohx
263 Posts
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Frankon
3054 Posts
oh and On December 14 2011 22:21 Starcraftmazter wrote: What is most troubling to me, is that most people are completely missing the key issues here. My email to GOM: + Show Spoiler [wall of text] + Hello A few days ago, I purchased the GSL Premium Yearly Ticket (My account email address is the same as this and the same one as my PayPal account for verification). I am very unhappy with your completely unprofessional decision to punish Naniwa for doing nothing wrong against the rules, quite arbitrarily - while not punishing any Korean player, ever for any sort of "misbehavior". In particular the rule you are using as justification in regards to disrespect and offence of players can be used in many instances. For instance, in some GSTL, oGsMC went over and banged the both of his enemy player before the game. This is easily both offensive and disrespectful - yet no action was taken. This is but one prominent example, and I am not suggesting any action should have been taken; rather I am pointing out the unprofessional arbitrary enforcement of that rule, which seems to be applied against foreigners only. Furthermore, I find the insulting slur of "Mr Chae" on Naniwa very unprofessional and ill conceived, this along with other previous events clearly shows your bias against non-Korean players and casters. Overall, I am rather angered by the precedent that this sets, allowing GoMTV to disqualify, remove and otherwise take action against players based entirely on what you believe to be some form of bad play. Looking back at Blizzard Cup, LiquidHero also played very poorly (but unlike Naniwai who showed very impressive games, I would say all of Hero's games were very bad), and his last two games especially were very amateur in nature, as he stopped trying. This is not an objective matter either, and in particular in Hero's game against DRG, he have DRG a win - in a game which *actually mattered* to the outcome of the tournament, whereas the game between Naniwa and Nestea did not. I do not see any action taken again Hero for this? And I am a fan of Hero, but I am merely pointing out the double standards which exists in the GSL with Korean and non-Korean players. I cannot understand why you think the foreign audience doesn't see this - do you take us all for fools? My question is, where do you draw the line? What gives you the right to draw it arbitrarily so? And at what stage can a player be kicked out for cheesing? Why are certain types of cheese ok (like 6pool) whereas others not? Naniwai could have just as easily 4gated or cannon rushed and lost - all that would have achieved is wasting more of everyone's time. I would argue that in not wasting said time that Naniwai actually has far more respect for viewers and fans than you do, so I find your decision very arbitrary and reckless. Why for instance was BitbybitPrime not punished using this very same rule? Naniwa works extremely hard, practising more than the vast majority of players (Korean and non-Korean alike) to play the best games for his fans. This is more than I can say about what BitbyBit did - and the same goes for many other players over time. To then be punished and be insulted like so, is extremely unjustifiable. You clearly do not understand that people are all different, and some get quite emotional in some situations. Next is the issue of MLG seeds into GSL code S. You have now broken your partnership with MLG, as you have failed to keep your end of the bargain. This is a further slap in the face to foreigners and foreign tournaments. Even if Naniwa's seed eventually gets replaced by another foreigner, that doesn't change the fact that you are illegitimising a foreign tournament by taking away it's right to seed a player into GSL Code S, and instead stealing that decision for yourselves. It has also come to my attention that you have deleted comments you have made about revoking Naniwai's code S seed claiming he never had it. This does not exactly add to your credibility, as it is not exactly a secret that he did. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-program The rules are stated very clearly, he earned his code S spot in Providence. I am unsure why you would try to claim he did not - again, do you take foreigners for complete idiots? You must understand, at this stage this is far beyond the Naniwa vs Nestea game. Now the bias of GomTV against foreigners as well as the behaviour of the tournament organisers to do whatever they want regardless of the rules is put in question. Furthermore on that note, you have taken a complete lack of responsibility for designing a tournament system which allows for meaningless games that don't have any result on any outcome. In conclusion, I am very displeased with this. I have supported the GSL and payed for virtually every season and event single since I first learned about it in 2010. Even these days, I end up defending GomTV from all the bad comments about the stream quality being far worse than MLG and Dreamhack - even on "HD". I really love Tastosis and always tune in to watch them cast regardless of who's playing. But this is really the last straw for me, I cannot possibly support you any longer as it seems to me that you have lost your integrity. Unless you plan to fully reverse your decision to take Naniwai's code S spot, or hand out any meaningful punishment in general (perhaps you can make it as meaningless as the game for which he was punished?), I request a full refund. If this refund is not given, or this email disregarded, I will take it up with PayPal. As the year 2012 has not even started yet, I am sure there is zero argument against getting a full refund. Lastly, being a long-term supporter, I appreciate this email be passed to some form of management so that my feelings be conveyed to them - as I believe I have made a lot of good arguments, which really deserve to be thought about by the management of the GSL. Thank You --- Tehcnically you already started using the package. You got HQ and vods for Blizzard Cup as part of it. | ||
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PANiC.
Australia3 Posts
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Kiyo.
United States2284 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:21 Starcraftmazter wrote: What is most troubling to me, is that most people are completely missing the key issues here. My email to GOM: Nice email, mine was somewhat similar but a bit shorter. Same situation though, bought a year pass, requested refund. We'll see what happens. | ||
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dakalro
Romania525 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:06 ethos wrote: What is so difficult about this. Naniwa was disrespectful. Naniwa was sent to the corner. You shouldn't be sad for Naniwa, you should be sad that it seems that esports has to raise other people's children. You don't get on their stage and then in the middle of it decide not to play by their rules because your feelings are hurt, and then get away with it scot-free (this isn't even that big of a punishment, its only a month, unless I'm mistaken). Gom has to be sure that the decisions that they make for the sake of the fans (format) are adhered to by the players that take their stage, even when you get the shitty end of the stick. We all have to sacrifice sometimes. Such is (adult) life. Naniwa gets a free pass why? Because you like him? Yes he was disrespectful but they cheated and lied to send him to the corner. That rule/reason for punishing him is nowhere near fitting for what he did. They simply had no official reason to punish him and they just used something that they thought was close but not actually anywhere near fitting. Last I knew abusive != offensive. It just showed they can stoop pretty low when it suits them and that's what I don't like. It's about losing respect and abusing the respect you have. Nothing to do with Naniwa, he's a child and needs to grow up still, just like Idra. | ||
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