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NaNiwa not invited to Code S - Page 146

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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.

Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum.
Haiku-Fr
Profile Joined December 2011
France7 Posts
December 14 2011 13:30 GMT
#2901
How this match was different from the 4th match of a bo5 where there is already 3-0 for one player ?

Gom is not consistent here...
Elefanto
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland3584 Posts
December 14 2011 13:30 GMT
#2902
On December 14 2011 22:29 Brendonious wrote:
Everyone remember to Email and Tweet @GOMTV and @WoWnStarcraft so they know what an unprofitable decision they made



Yes, they should value profit over the integrity of their tournament.
So that's how you do business today.
wat
Mycl
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia1370 Posts
December 14 2011 13:30 GMT
#2903
On December 14 2011 22:26 Legace wrote:
I am genuinly curious. Lets say, for the sake of the hypothesis, that Naniwa was allowed to forfeit the game -- what is the difference in forfeiting the game before it's played and "forfeiting it ingame"?


If a forfeit happens before you get into the booth it most likely means that the tournament organizers gave the ok and allowed you to forfeit.
Vardant
Profile Joined November 2010
Czech Republic620 Posts
December 14 2011 13:30 GMT
#2904
On December 14 2011 22:29 Biane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 22:25 baoluvboa wrote:
On December 14 2011 22:24 drepnir wrote:
On December 14 2011 22:21 NHY wrote:
No exchange program for Providence.


So this is wrong? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Providence


Ya because no Koreans were seeded into the championship bracket.


This seemed to be the clearest way to tell/show people (who are TLDR) that the exchange program didnt stand for providence.

Yes and somehow, they forgot to tell it to the guys HOSTING the actual tournament. How does that make any sense is just beyond me.
Pwnographics
Profile Joined January 2011
New Zealand1097 Posts
December 14 2011 13:30 GMT
#2905
On December 14 2011 22:29 Brendonious wrote:
Everyone remember to Email and Tweet @GOMTV and @WoWnStarcraft so they know what an unprofitable decision they made


The whole reason they made this decision was because people tweeted and emailed them saying to bar naniwa.
CakeSauc3
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1437 Posts
December 14 2011 13:30 GMT
#2906
@Starcraftmazter Nice email, I definitely agree that GOM is going too far on this one. Naniwa gained me as a true fan the moment he probe rushed - and that was before all the controversy. And now I find that so many people had a problem with it... it just drives me crazy. I still think what he did was more classy than forfeiting the game or doing some stupid cheese or rage quit later on. I just wish people wouldn't make such a big deal out of what he did just because it was different.
zanga
Profile Joined September 2011
659 Posts
December 14 2011 13:30 GMT
#2907
On December 14 2011 22:29 NeoSlicerZ wrote:
Wait, i thought the gsl was being held in South korea, not North.

Lol.


User was warned for this post
(:
Rupyness
Profile Joined January 2011
52 Posts
December 14 2011 13:30 GMT
#2908
On December 14 2011 22:20 zHarveLi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 22:17 LunaSea wrote:
On December 14 2011 22:15 Rupyness wrote:
Couldnt naniwa sue mlg since its basically breach of contract since he lost a code s seed that was as a result of an agreementbetween mlg and the players.

Then mlg would have to tell the gsl they cant do that


Interesting. He probably could yes.
Althought I don't think this would be a good thing to do... :S


Ehm, no, basicly he caused this to happen by himself, so it's not mlg's fault for him getting booted by his own doing.


You cant get booted for something that happens in anpther tournament. Contracts are legally binding cant be some arbitrary rule thay you can use to revoke a contract
shadymmj
Profile Joined June 2010
1906 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 13:31:34
December 14 2011 13:30 GMT
#2909
On December 14 2011 22:21 Starcraftmazter wrote:
What is most troubling to me, is that most people are completely missing the key issues here.

My email to GOM:

Show nested quote +
Hello

A few days ago, I purchased the GSL Premium Yearly Ticket (My account email address is the same as this and the same one as my PayPal account for verification).

I am very unhappy with your completely unprofessional decision to punish Naniwa for doing nothing wrong against the rules, quite arbitrarily - while not punishing any Korean player, ever for any sort of "misbehavior". In particular the rule you are using as justification in regards to disrespect and offence of players can be used in many instances. For instance, in some GSTL, oGsMC went over and banged the both of his enemy player before the game. This is easily both offensive and disrespectful - yet no action was taken. This is but one prominent example, and I am not suggesting any action should have been taken; rather I am pointing out the unprofessional arbitrary enforcement of that rule, which seems to be applied against foreigners only.

Furthermore, I find the insulting slur of "Mr Chae" on Naniwa very unprofessional and ill conceived, this along with other previous events clearly shows your bias against non-Korean players and casters.

Overall, I am rather angered by the precedent that this sets, allowing GoMTV to disqualify, remove and otherwise take action against players based entirely on what you believe to be some form of bad play. Looking back at Blizzard Cup, LiquidHero also played very poorly (but unlike Naniwai who showed very impressive games, I would say all of Hero's games were very bad), and his last two games especially were very amateur in nature, as he stopped trying. This is not an objective matter either, and in particular in Hero's game against DRG, he have DRG a win - in a game which *actually mattered* to the outcome of the tournament, whereas the game between Naniwa and Nestea did not. I do not see any action taken again Hero for this? And I am a fan of Hero, but I am merely pointing out the double standards which exists in the GSL with Korean and non-Korean players. I cannot understand why you think the foreign audience doesn't see this - do you take us all for fools?

My question is, where do you draw the line? What gives you the right to draw it arbitrarily so? And at what stage can a player be kicked out for cheesing? Why are certain types of cheese ok (like 6pool) whereas others not? Naniwai could have just as easily 4gated or cannon rushed and lost - all that would have achieved is wasting more of everyone's time. I would argue that in not wasting said time that Naniwai actually has far more respect for viewers and fans than you do, so I find your decision very arbitrary and reckless.
Why for instance was BitbybitPrime not punished using this very same rule? Naniwa works extremely hard, practising more than the vast majority of players (Korean and non-Korean alike) to play the best games for his fans. This is more than I can say about what BitbyBit did - and the same goes for many other players over time. To then be punished and be insulted like so, is extremely unjustifiable. You clearly do not understand that people are all different, and some get quite emotional in some situations.

Next is the issue of MLG seeds into GSL code S. You have now broken your partnership with MLG, as you have failed to keep your end of the bargain. This is a further slap in the face to foreigners and foreign tournaments. Even if Naniwa's seed eventually gets replaced by another foreigner, that doesn't change the fact that you are illegitimising a foreign tournament by taking away it's right to seed a player into GSL Code S, and instead stealing that decision for yourselves. It has also come to my attention that you have deleted comments you have made about revoking Naniwai's code S seed claiming he never had it. This does not exactly add to your credibility, as it is not exactly a secret that he did.
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-program
The rules are stated very clearly, he earned his code S spot in Providence. I am unsure why you would try to claim he did not - again, do you take foreigners for complete idiots?


You must understand, at this stage this is far beyond the Naniwa vs Nestea game. Now the bias of GomTV against foreigners as well as the behaviour of the tournament organisers to do whatever they want regardless of the rules is put in question. Furthermore on that note, you have taken a complete lack of responsibility for designing a tournament system which allows for meaningless games that don't have any result on any outcome.


In conclusion, I am very displeased with this. I have supported the GSL and payed for virtually every season and event single since I first learned about it in 2010. Even these days, I end up defending GomTV from all the bad comments about the stream quality being far worse than MLG and Dreamhack - even on "HD". I really love Tastosis and always tune in to watch them cast regardless of who's playing. But this is really the last straw for me, I cannot possibly support you any longer as it seems to me that you have lost your integrity.

Unless you plan to fully reverse your decision to take Naniwai's code S spot, or hand out any meaningful punishment in general (perhaps you can make it as meaningless as the game for which he was punished?), I request a full refund. If this refund is not given, or this email disregarded, I will take it up with PayPal. As the year 2012 has not even started yet, I am sure there is zero argument against getting a full refund. Lastly, being a long-term supporter, I appreciate this email be passed to some form of management so that my feelings be conveyed to them - as I believe I have made a lot of good arguments, which really deserve to be thought about by the management of the GSL.


Thank You
---


"In particular the rule you are using as justification in regards to disrespect and offence of players can be used in many instances. For instance, in some GSTL, oGsMC went over and banged the both of his enemy player before the game. This is easily both offensive and disrespectful - yet no action was taken."

oGsMC went over and banged the both of his enemy player before the game

LOLOLOLOLO

what an email to send
There is no such thing is "e-sports". There is Brood War, and then there is crap for nerds.
Shalaiyn
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands2735 Posts
December 14 2011 13:30 GMT
#2910
So a rage-6 pool is fine but a 7 probe rush which can destroy a 6 pool isn't?
buldermar
Profile Joined March 2008
Denmark102 Posts
December 14 2011 13:31 GMT
#2911
Putting aside the debate of the punishment of Naniwa, does anyone disagree that GOM should not be hosting a tournament with what they perceive to be the best players in a world and have the structure be so that certain matches has no value in terms of seating/money?

To me, it seems absurdly easy to guaranee that all matches has some kind of value. Can anyone explain the logic behind not having all matches have some value? The decision of letting this situation be possible in the first place appears unprofessional to me - regardless of whether or not the punishment is justifiable.
bonedriven
Profile Joined August 2010
258 Posts
December 14 2011 13:31 GMT
#2912
On December 14 2011 22:19 yFot wrote:
So if the monkey doesnt want to dance, does it deserve to die?


What monkey? Is there a story or something? But the monkey needs to get off the stage!
Hence,"Like a Virgin."
Psychout
Profile Joined March 2011
Finland16 Posts
December 14 2011 13:31 GMT
#2913
Outrageous. I'm not gonna watch gsl anymore. W/e
"Fear is an illusion."
Zzoram
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada7115 Posts
December 14 2011 13:31 GMT
#2914
I wonder what other pro players, Quantic, and Korean netizens have to say about this.
Emnjay808
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States10665 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 13:32:46
December 14 2011 13:31 GMT
#2915
On December 14 2011 22:20 careohx wrote:
Bow down to the almighty GOM they can apparently do whatever they want. They can even insult players on TV classy.


Bow down to the almighty Naniwa who can apparently do whatever he wants. He can even insult players on TV classy.
Skol
nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
December 14 2011 13:31 GMT
#2916
On December 14 2011 22:29 Biane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 22:25 baoluvboa wrote:
On December 14 2011 22:24 drepnir wrote:
On December 14 2011 22:21 NHY wrote:
No exchange program for Providence.


So this is wrong? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Providence


Ya because no Koreans were seeded into the championship bracket.


This seemed to be the clearest way to tell/show people (who are TLDR) that the exchange program didnt stand for providence.


That's not stated in the rules on either the gom or mlg site (it's actually implied the opposite that all mlg are a part of it). If they are that half-assed about it they deserve all the flack they get regardless.
Banelings are too cute to blow up
kazie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
258 Posts
December 14 2011 13:32 GMT
#2917
i think a lot of people are missing the point. gomtv didnt REVOKE or UNINVITE anyone. naniwa was just a very likely candidate to receive a code s seed but because of the incident they just arent considering it anymore for this season. it's not like they told naniwa that he'd be seeded then went back on their word. mr chae makes this clear in several tweets
youngminii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia7514 Posts
December 14 2011 13:32 GMT
#2918
Gotta vote with my wallet and I'm sorry Gom, I'm not gonna pay when you're pulling these kind of shenanigans. It's just not professional. I'll still watch and everything but you don't have my monetary support anymore.
lalala
Pwnographics
Profile Joined January 2011
New Zealand1097 Posts
December 14 2011 13:32 GMT
#2919
On December 14 2011 22:30 Shalaiyn wrote:
So a rage-6 pool is fine but a 7 probe rush which can destroy a 6 pool isn't?


At least 6 pool raged with his hands on his keyboard and not using them to support his slumped over face.
mstrkrft
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria10 Posts
December 14 2011 13:32 GMT
#2920
Wow,.,,
stupid GomTV shitheads.... making a mountain out of a molehill! Very clever!

User was temp banned for this post.
we are borg
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