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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
This made my day, great news. Hopefully he understands that acting like 12 may work here, but not in Korea.
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On December 14 2011 22:30 Elefanto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:29 Brendonious wrote:
Everyone remember to Email and Tweet @GOMTV and @WoWnStarcraft so they know what an unprofitable decision they made Yes, they should value profit over the integrity of their tournament. So that's how you do business today.
They should fire who ever came up with the bracket system.. Games that doesn't matter will never matter. No matter how disquised a dumb strategy is. The sad thing is 80% of the community can't distinguish a walkover build when they see it so if naniwa had gone one base carrier rush people would be like omg he tried and it failed.
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On December 14 2011 22:30 Shalaiyn wrote:
So a rage-6 pool is fine but a 7 probe rush which can destroy a 6 pool isn't?
I imagine the strategy that you utilize to intentionally drop a game is of small importance.
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On December 14 2011 22:27 0800 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:23 Xax wrote:On December 14 2011 22:21 Starcraftmazter wrote:What is most troubling to me, is that most people are completely missing the key issues here. My email to GOM: Hello A few days ago, I purchased the GSL Premium Yearly Ticket (My account email address is the same as this and the same one as my PayPal account for verification). I am very unhappy with your completely unprofessional decision to punish Naniwa for doing nothing wrong against the rules, quite arbitrarily - while not punishing any Korean player, ever for any sort of "misbehavior". In particular the rule you are using as justification in regards to disrespect and offence of players can be used in many instances. For instance, in some GSTL, oGsMC went over and banged the both of his enemy player before the game. This is easily both offensive and disrespectful - yet no action was taken. This is but one prominent example, and I am not suggesting any action should have been taken; rather I am pointing out the unprofessional arbitrary enforcement of that rule, which seems to be applied against foreigners only. Furthermore, I find the insulting slur of "Mr Chae" on Naniwa very unprofessional and ill conceived, this along with other previous events clearly shows your bias against non-Korean players and casters. Overall, I am rather angered by the precedent that this sets, allowing GoMTV to disqualify, remove and otherwise take action against players based entirely on what you believe to be some form of bad play. Looking back at Blizzard Cup, LiquidHero also played very poorly (but unlike Naniwai who showed very impressive games, I would say all of Hero's games were very bad), and his last two games especially were very amateur in nature, as he stopped trying. This is not an objective matter either, and in particular in Hero's game against DRG, he have DRG a win - in a game which *actually mattered* to the outcome of the tournament, whereas the game between Naniwa and Nestea did not. I do not see any action taken again Hero for this? And I am a fan of Hero, but I am merely pointing out the double standards which exists in the GSL with Korean and non-Korean players. I cannot understand why you think the foreign audience doesn't see this - do you take us all for fools? My question is, where do you draw the line? What gives you the right to draw it arbitrarily so? And at what stage can a player be kicked out for cheesing? Why are certain types of cheese ok (like 6pool) whereas others not? Naniwai could have just as easily 4gated or cannon rushed and lost - all that would have achieved is wasting more of everyone's time. I would argue that in not wasting said time that Naniwai actually has far more respect for viewers and fans than you do, so I find your decision very arbitrary and reckless. Why for instance was BitbybitPrime not punished using this very same rule? Naniwa works extremely hard, practising more than the vast majority of players (Korean and non-Korean alike) to play the best games for his fans. This is more than I can say about what BitbyBit did - and the same goes for many other players over time. To then be punished and be insulted like so, is extremely unjustifiable. You clearly do not understand that people are all different, and some get quite emotional in some situations. Next is the issue of MLG seeds into GSL code S. You have now broken your partnership with MLG, as you have failed to keep your end of the bargain. This is a further slap in the face to foreigners and foreign tournaments. Even if Naniwa's seed eventually gets replaced by another foreigner, that doesn't change the fact that you are illegitimising a foreign tournament by taking away it's right to seed a player into GSL Code S, and instead stealing that decision for yourselves. It has also come to my attention that you have deleted comments you have made about revoking Naniwai's code S seed claiming he never had it. This does not exactly add to your credibility, as it is not exactly a secret that he did. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-programThe rules are stated very clearly, he earned his code S spot in Providence. I am unsure why you would try to claim he did not - again, do you take foreigners for complete idiots? You must understand, at this stage this is far beyond the Naniwa vs Nestea game. Now the bias of GomTV against foreigners as well as the behaviour of the tournament organisers to do whatever they want regardless of the rules is put in question. Furthermore on that note, you have taken a complete lack of responsibility for designing a tournament system which allows for meaningless games that don't have any result on any outcome. In conclusion, I am very displeased with this. I have supported the GSL and payed for virtually every season and event single since I first learned about it in 2010. Even these days, I end up defending GomTV from all the bad comments about the stream quality being far worse than MLG and Dreamhack - even on "HD". I really love Tastosis and always tune in to watch them cast regardless of who's playing. But this is really the last straw for me, I cannot possibly support you any longer as it seems to me that you have lost your integrity. Unless you plan to fully reverse your decision to take Naniwai's code S spot, or hand out any meaningful punishment in general (perhaps you can make it as meaningless as the game for which he was punished?), I request a full refund. If this refund is not given, or this email disregarded, I will take it up with PayPal. As the year 2012 has not even started yet, I am sure there is zero argument against getting a full refund. Lastly, being a long-term supporter, I appreciate this email be passed to some form of management so that my feelings be conveyed to them - as I believe I have made a lot of good arguments, which really deserve to be thought about by the management of the GSL. Thank You --- I hope you got your facts straight before sending that email  Naniwa got his seed from MLG and the factual information presented on the Email seems accurate to me. If you post sentences like that, including a smiley face at the end, you should also spend the time to say why you think what he stated is incorrect, rather than suggesting something and then lacking to provide proof for what you are saying.
Check out the latest information making rounds. Apparently there was a misunderstanding regarding the GSL/MLG exchange. Proof? No Code A seeds and no Korean invites to MLG Providence.
Basically what happened is that they would've given one of the two Code S seeds of January to Naniwa based on his performance all year long, not because of the exchange program. He then disqualified himself from it by showing bad sportsmanship. They did not take anything away from him, Mr Chae just said something publicly in response to the reactions of the Korean community. It seems to have been translated wrongly and started this shitstorm.
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i for one think that the system was at fault here.
its like a game of a best of 5. if one player finishes 3 games first then the other matches wouldn't be played and the player wins.
In this case, they were both 0-3 and had no chance of getting back or winning.
That game shouldn't have been played.
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WE ALL GET THAT WHAT NANIWA DID WAS WRONG!
But seriously, revoking a seed (stop saying that he was not seeded... why on fucking earth would they have done such an annoncement if he was not seeded in the first place? It's ludicrous.) is bullshit. Yes, they should have warned him, and should add a new rules for future tournaments...
But revoking or whatever you call this, over a rule that don't have anything to do whit what happened... this is bullshit.
Seriously, it's true that what he did was wrong... but he don't deserve that punishement for a first offense without warning. Poor Naniwa... working is ass off, in another contry, for nothing. This is heartbreaking.
We should all mail GOMTV, Blizzard and sponsors.
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breaching contractual obligations can lead to termination of contractual relationships everywhere in this world
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On December 14 2011 22:30 Vardant wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:29 Biane wrote:On December 14 2011 22:25 baoluvboa wrote:Ya because no Koreans were seeded into the championship bracket. This seemed to be the clearest way to tell/show people (who are TLDR) that the exchange program didnt stand for providence. Yes and somehow, they forgot to tell it to the guys HOSTING the actual tournament. How does that make any sense is just beyond me.
Might be the people doing the write ups/casters weren't fully informed of the details of the contract for the exchange program. We probably wont get to see it so this is as much evidence as can be provided/supported for their statement.
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On December 14 2011 22:32 Xax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:27 0800 wrote:On December 14 2011 22:23 Xax wrote:On December 14 2011 22:21 Starcraftmazter wrote:What is most troubling to me, is that most people are completely missing the key issues here. My email to GOM: Hello A few days ago, I purchased the GSL Premium Yearly Ticket (My account email address is the same as this and the same one as my PayPal account for verification). I am very unhappy with your completely unprofessional decision to punish Naniwa for doing nothing wrong against the rules, quite arbitrarily - while not punishing any Korean player, ever for any sort of "misbehavior". In particular the rule you are using as justification in regards to disrespect and offence of players can be used in many instances. For instance, in some GSTL, oGsMC went over and banged the both of his enemy player before the game. This is easily both offensive and disrespectful - yet no action was taken. This is but one prominent example, and I am not suggesting any action should have been taken; rather I am pointing out the unprofessional arbitrary enforcement of that rule, which seems to be applied against foreigners only. Furthermore, I find the insulting slur of "Mr Chae" on Naniwa very unprofessional and ill conceived, this along with other previous events clearly shows your bias against non-Korean players and casters. Overall, I am rather angered by the precedent that this sets, allowing GoMTV to disqualify, remove and otherwise take action against players based entirely on what you believe to be some form of bad play. Looking back at Blizzard Cup, LiquidHero also played very poorly (but unlike Naniwai who showed very impressive games, I would say all of Hero's games were very bad), and his last two games especially were very amateur in nature, as he stopped trying. This is not an objective matter either, and in particular in Hero's game against DRG, he have DRG a win - in a game which *actually mattered* to the outcome of the tournament, whereas the game between Naniwa and Nestea did not. I do not see any action taken again Hero for this? And I am a fan of Hero, but I am merely pointing out the double standards which exists in the GSL with Korean and non-Korean players. I cannot understand why you think the foreign audience doesn't see this - do you take us all for fools? My question is, where do you draw the line? What gives you the right to draw it arbitrarily so? And at what stage can a player be kicked out for cheesing? Why are certain types of cheese ok (like 6pool) whereas others not? Naniwai could have just as easily 4gated or cannon rushed and lost - all that would have achieved is wasting more of everyone's time. I would argue that in not wasting said time that Naniwai actually has far more respect for viewers and fans than you do, so I find your decision very arbitrary and reckless. Why for instance was BitbybitPrime not punished using this very same rule? Naniwa works extremely hard, practising more than the vast majority of players (Korean and non-Korean alike) to play the best games for his fans. This is more than I can say about what BitbyBit did - and the same goes for many other players over time. To then be punished and be insulted like so, is extremely unjustifiable. You clearly do not understand that people are all different, and some get quite emotional in some situations. Next is the issue of MLG seeds into GSL code S. You have now broken your partnership with MLG, as you have failed to keep your end of the bargain. This is a further slap in the face to foreigners and foreign tournaments. Even if Naniwa's seed eventually gets replaced by another foreigner, that doesn't change the fact that you are illegitimising a foreign tournament by taking away it's right to seed a player into GSL Code S, and instead stealing that decision for yourselves. It has also come to my attention that you have deleted comments you have made about revoking Naniwai's code S seed claiming he never had it. This does not exactly add to your credibility, as it is not exactly a secret that he did. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-programThe rules are stated very clearly, he earned his code S spot in Providence. I am unsure why you would try to claim he did not - again, do you take foreigners for complete idiots? You must understand, at this stage this is far beyond the Naniwa vs Nestea game. Now the bias of GomTV against foreigners as well as the behaviour of the tournament organisers to do whatever they want regardless of the rules is put in question. Furthermore on that note, you have taken a complete lack of responsibility for designing a tournament system which allows for meaningless games that don't have any result on any outcome. In conclusion, I am very displeased with this. I have supported the GSL and payed for virtually every season and event single since I first learned about it in 2010. Even these days, I end up defending GomTV from all the bad comments about the stream quality being far worse than MLG and Dreamhack - even on "HD". I really love Tastosis and always tune in to watch them cast regardless of who's playing. But this is really the last straw for me, I cannot possibly support you any longer as it seems to me that you have lost your integrity. Unless you plan to fully reverse your decision to take Naniwai's code S spot, or hand out any meaningful punishment in general (perhaps you can make it as meaningless as the game for which he was punished?), I request a full refund. If this refund is not given, or this email disregarded, I will take it up with PayPal. As the year 2012 has not even started yet, I am sure there is zero argument against getting a full refund. Lastly, being a long-term supporter, I appreciate this email be passed to some form of management so that my feelings be conveyed to them - as I believe I have made a lot of good arguments, which really deserve to be thought about by the management of the GSL. Thank You --- I hope you got your facts straight before sending that email Naniwa got his seed from MLG and the factual information presented on the Email seems accurate to me. If you post sentences like that, including a smiley face at the end, you should also spend the time to say why you think what he stated is incorrect, rather than suggesting something and then lacking to provide proof for what you are saying. Check out the latest information making rounds. Apparently there was a misunderstanding regarding the GSL/MLG exchange. Proof? No Code A seeds and no Korean invites to MLG Providence. Basically what happened is that they would've given one of the two Code S seeds of January to Naniwa based on his performance all year long, not because of the exchange program. He then disqualified himself from it by showing bad sportsmanship. They did not take anything away from him, Mr Chae just said something publicly in response to the reactions of the Korean community. It seems to have been translated wrongly and started this shitstorm. nah
the shitstorm started well before mr. chae said anything at all
i knew immediately when i first heard about this that naniwa would be losing his code s spot so i don't see why anyone is surprised or outraged about this
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Could someone clear this up for me? Naniwa originally had a code A seed (many times from MLG), but never got the code S by winning a tournament when this seeding system happened. Did his code A seed just get bumped up to code S randomly? I so, I guess things could be worse. As long as he has his code A seed still, I think he'll do fine.
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On December 14 2011 22:33 Xalorian wrote:
WE ALL GET THAT WHAT NANIWA DID WAS WRONG!
But seriously, revoking a seed (stop saying that he was not seeded... why on fucking earth would they have done such an annoncement if he was not seeded in the first place? It's ludicrous.) is bullshit. Yes, they should have warned him, and should add a new rules for future tournaments...
But revoking or whatever you call this, over a rule that don't have anything to do whit what happened... this is bullshit.
Seriously, it's true that what he did was wrong... but he don't deserve that punishement for a first offense without warning. Poor Naniwa... working is ass off, in another contry, for nothing. This is heartbreaking.
We should all mail GOMTV, Blizzard and sponsors.
He never had a fucking seed to begin with.
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On December 14 2011 22:30 Vardant wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:29 Biane wrote:On December 14 2011 22:25 baoluvboa wrote:Ya because no Koreans were seeded into the championship bracket. This seemed to be the clearest way to tell/show people (who are TLDR) that the exchange program didnt stand for providence. Yes and somehow, they forgot to tell it to the guys HOSTING the actual tournament. How does that make any sense is just beyond me.
So GOM is responsible for what MLG says?
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Ugh this was such a terrible decision.
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On December 14 2011 22:32 Xax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:27 0800 wrote:On December 14 2011 22:23 Xax wrote:On December 14 2011 22:21 Starcraftmazter wrote:What is most troubling to me, is that most people are completely missing the key issues here. My email to GOM: Hello A few days ago, I purchased the GSL Premium Yearly Ticket (My account email address is the same as this and the same one as my PayPal account for verification). I am very unhappy with your completely unprofessional decision to punish Naniwa for doing nothing wrong against the rules, quite arbitrarily - while not punishing any Korean player, ever for any sort of "misbehavior". In particular the rule you are using as justification in regards to disrespect and offence of players can be used in many instances. For instance, in some GSTL, oGsMC went over and banged the both of his enemy player before the game. This is easily both offensive and disrespectful - yet no action was taken. This is but one prominent example, and I am not suggesting any action should have been taken; rather I am pointing out the unprofessional arbitrary enforcement of that rule, which seems to be applied against foreigners only. Furthermore, I find the insulting slur of "Mr Chae" on Naniwa very unprofessional and ill conceived, this along with other previous events clearly shows your bias against non-Korean players and casters. Overall, I am rather angered by the precedent that this sets, allowing GoMTV to disqualify, remove and otherwise take action against players based entirely on what you believe to be some form of bad play. Looking back at Blizzard Cup, LiquidHero also played very poorly (but unlike Naniwai who showed very impressive games, I would say all of Hero's games were very bad), and his last two games especially were very amateur in nature, as he stopped trying. This is not an objective matter either, and in particular in Hero's game against DRG, he have DRG a win - in a game which *actually mattered* to the outcome of the tournament, whereas the game between Naniwa and Nestea did not. I do not see any action taken again Hero for this? And I am a fan of Hero, but I am merely pointing out the double standards which exists in the GSL with Korean and non-Korean players. I cannot understand why you think the foreign audience doesn't see this - do you take us all for fools? My question is, where do you draw the line? What gives you the right to draw it arbitrarily so? And at what stage can a player be kicked out for cheesing? Why are certain types of cheese ok (like 6pool) whereas others not? Naniwai could have just as easily 4gated or cannon rushed and lost - all that would have achieved is wasting more of everyone's time. I would argue that in not wasting said time that Naniwai actually has far more respect for viewers and fans than you do, so I find your decision very arbitrary and reckless. Why for instance was BitbybitPrime not punished using this very same rule? Naniwa works extremely hard, practising more than the vast majority of players (Korean and non-Korean alike) to play the best games for his fans. This is more than I can say about what BitbyBit did - and the same goes for many other players over time. To then be punished and be insulted like so, is extremely unjustifiable. You clearly do not understand that people are all different, and some get quite emotional in some situations. Next is the issue of MLG seeds into GSL code S. You have now broken your partnership with MLG, as you have failed to keep your end of the bargain. This is a further slap in the face to foreigners and foreign tournaments. Even if Naniwa's seed eventually gets replaced by another foreigner, that doesn't change the fact that you are illegitimising a foreign tournament by taking away it's right to seed a player into GSL Code S, and instead stealing that decision for yourselves. It has also come to my attention that you have deleted comments you have made about revoking Naniwai's code S seed claiming he never had it. This does not exactly add to your credibility, as it is not exactly a secret that he did. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-programThe rules are stated very clearly, he earned his code S spot in Providence. I am unsure why you would try to claim he did not - again, do you take foreigners for complete idiots? You must understand, at this stage this is far beyond the Naniwa vs Nestea game. Now the bias of GomTV against foreigners as well as the behaviour of the tournament organisers to do whatever they want regardless of the rules is put in question. Furthermore on that note, you have taken a complete lack of responsibility for designing a tournament system which allows for meaningless games that don't have any result on any outcome. In conclusion, I am very displeased with this. I have supported the GSL and payed for virtually every season and event single since I first learned about it in 2010. Even these days, I end up defending GomTV from all the bad comments about the stream quality being far worse than MLG and Dreamhack - even on "HD". I really love Tastosis and always tune in to watch them cast regardless of who's playing. But this is really the last straw for me, I cannot possibly support you any longer as it seems to me that you have lost your integrity. Unless you plan to fully reverse your decision to take Naniwai's code S spot, or hand out any meaningful punishment in general (perhaps you can make it as meaningless as the game for which he was punished?), I request a full refund. If this refund is not given, or this email disregarded, I will take it up with PayPal. As the year 2012 has not even started yet, I am sure there is zero argument against getting a full refund. Lastly, being a long-term supporter, I appreciate this email be passed to some form of management so that my feelings be conveyed to them - as I believe I have made a lot of good arguments, which really deserve to be thought about by the management of the GSL. Thank You --- I hope you got your facts straight before sending that email Naniwa got his seed from MLG and the factual information presented on the Email seems accurate to me. If you post sentences like that, including a smiley face at the end, you should also spend the time to say why you think what he stated is incorrect, rather than suggesting something and then lacking to provide proof for what you are saying. Check out the latest information making rounds. Apparently there was a misunderstanding regarding the GSL/MLG exchange. Proof? No Code A seeds and no Korean invites to MLG Providence. Basically what happened is that they would've given one of the two Code S seeds of January to Naniwa based on his performance all year long, not because of the exchange program. He then disqualified himself from it by showing bad sportsmanship. They did not take anything away from him, Mr Chae just said something publicly in response to the reactions of the Korean community. It seems to have been translated wrongly and started this shitstorm.
And why they waited until a good part of the community doesn't agree with them to say that? Fishy as fuck. Translated wrongly? Fishy as fuck as well. If what he said was translated wrongly they HAVE to clear it up in the next minute.
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On December 14 2011 22:29 Brendonious wrote:
Everyone remember to Email and Tweet @GOMTV and @WoWnStarcraft so they know what an unprofitable decision they made
I like how these people have <10 posts. I'm sure you've all bought GSL in the past year and contributed much to the starcraft community. Lol.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 14 2011 22:32 buldermar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:30 Shalaiyn wrote:
So a rage-6 pool is fine but a 7 probe rush which can destroy a 6 pool isn't? I imagine the strategy that you utilize to intentionally drop a game is of small importance.
Are you missing the point?
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On December 14 2011 22:33 Xalorian wrote:
WE ALL GET THAT WHAT NANIWA DID WAS WRONG!
But seriously, revoking a seed (stop saying that he was not seeded... why on fucking earth would they have done such an annoncement if he was not seeded in the first place? It's ludicrous.) is bullshit. Yes, they should have warned him, and should add a new rules for future tournaments...
But revoking or whatever you call this, over a rule that don't have anything to do whit what happened... this is bullshit.
Seriously, it's true that what he did was wrong... but he don't deserve that punishement for a first offense without warning. Poor Naniwa... working is ass off, in another contry, for nothing. This is heartbreaking.
We should all mail GOMTV, Blizzard and sponsors.
SO TRUE
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Lol thats such a childish move by GSL and GomTv.
He just did this because THEY let him play an meaningless match wich he refused to play.
So in my opinion MLG > GSL
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On December 14 2011 22:11 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:10 careohx wrote:On December 14 2011 22:05 zHarveLi wrote:
nani fully deserved his punishment. Rules are rules, no matter how good you are, if you can't abide to them, you should get booted right out of the competition. The problem is he didnt break any rules. Is there a rule against probe rushing? There's a rule against not trying.
No there isn't. He got punished because he was abusive. Make of that what you will. I fail to see the connection between probe rushing and abuse but to each his own.
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I guess acting like a 4 year old eventually gets you egg on your face. Cool beans.
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EPT
