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NaNiwa not invited to Code S - Page 148

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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.

Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum.
Ncutable
Profile Joined October 2010
Romania99 Posts
December 14 2011 13:34 GMT
#2941
On December 14 2011 22:30 shadymmj wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 22:21 Starcraftmazter wrote:
What is most troubling to me, is that most people are completely missing the key issues here.

My email to GOM:

Hello

A few days ago, I purchased the GSL Premium Yearly Ticket (My account email address is the same as this and the same one as my PayPal account for verification).

I am very unhappy with your completely unprofessional decision to punish Naniwa for doing nothing wrong against the rules, quite arbitrarily - while not punishing any Korean player, ever for any sort of "misbehavior". In particular the rule you are using as justification in regards to disrespect and offence of players can be used in many instances. For instance, in some GSTL, oGsMC went over and banged the both of his enemy player before the game. This is easily both offensive and disrespectful - yet no action was taken. This is but one prominent example, and I am not suggesting any action should have been taken; rather I am pointing out the unprofessional arbitrary enforcement of that rule, which seems to be applied against foreigners only.

Furthermore, I find the insulting slur of "Mr Chae" on Naniwa very unprofessional and ill conceived, this along with other previous events clearly shows your bias against non-Korean players and casters.

Overall, I am rather angered by the precedent that this sets, allowing GoMTV to disqualify, remove and otherwise take action against players based entirely on what you believe to be some form of bad play. Looking back at Blizzard Cup, LiquidHero also played very poorly (but unlike Naniwai who showed very impressive games, I would say all of Hero's games were very bad), and his last two games especially were very amateur in nature, as he stopped trying. This is not an objective matter either, and in particular in Hero's game against DRG, he have DRG a win - in a game which *actually mattered* to the outcome of the tournament, whereas the game between Naniwa and Nestea did not. I do not see any action taken again Hero for this? And I am a fan of Hero, but I am merely pointing out the double standards which exists in the GSL with Korean and non-Korean players. I cannot understand why you think the foreign audience doesn't see this - do you take us all for fools?

My question is, where do you draw the line? What gives you the right to draw it arbitrarily so? And at what stage can a player be kicked out for cheesing? Why are certain types of cheese ok (like 6pool) whereas others not? Naniwai could have just as easily 4gated or cannon rushed and lost - all that would have achieved is wasting more of everyone's time. I would argue that in not wasting said time that Naniwai actually has far more respect for viewers and fans than you do, so I find your decision very arbitrary and reckless.
Why for instance was BitbybitPrime not punished using this very same rule? Naniwa works extremely hard, practising more than the vast majority of players (Korean and non-Korean alike) to play the best games for his fans. This is more than I can say about what BitbyBit did - and the same goes for many other players over time. To then be punished and be insulted like so, is extremely unjustifiable. You clearly do not understand that people are all different, and some get quite emotional in some situations.

Next is the issue of MLG seeds into GSL code S. You have now broken your partnership with MLG, as you have failed to keep your end of the bargain. This is a further slap in the face to foreigners and foreign tournaments. Even if Naniwa's seed eventually gets replaced by another foreigner, that doesn't change the fact that you are illegitimising a foreign tournament by taking away it's right to seed a player into GSL Code S, and instead stealing that decision for yourselves. It has also come to my attention that you have deleted comments you have made about revoking Naniwai's code S seed claiming he never had it. This does not exactly add to your credibility, as it is not exactly a secret that he did.
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-program
The rules are stated very clearly, he earned his code S spot in Providence. I am unsure why you would try to claim he did not - again, do you take foreigners for complete idiots?


You must understand, at this stage this is far beyond the Naniwa vs Nestea game. Now the bias of GomTV against foreigners as well as the behaviour of the tournament organisers to do whatever they want regardless of the rules is put in question. Furthermore on that note, you have taken a complete lack of responsibility for designing a tournament system which allows for meaningless games that don't have any result on any outcome.


In conclusion, I am very displeased with this. I have supported the GSL and payed for virtually every season and event single since I first learned about it in 2010. Even these days, I end up defending GomTV from all the bad comments about the stream quality being far worse than MLG and Dreamhack - even on "HD". I really love Tastosis and always tune in to watch them cast regardless of who's playing. But this is really the last straw for me, I cannot possibly support you any longer as it seems to me that you have lost your integrity.

Unless you plan to fully reverse your decision to take Naniwai's code S spot, or hand out any meaningful punishment in general (perhaps you can make it as meaningless as the game for which he was punished?), I request a full refund. If this refund is not given, or this email disregarded, I will take it up with PayPal. As the year 2012 has not even started yet, I am sure there is zero argument against getting a full refund. Lastly, being a long-term supporter, I appreciate this email be passed to some form of management so that my feelings be conveyed to them - as I believe I have made a lot of good arguments, which really deserve to be thought about by the management of the GSL.


Thank You
---


"In particular the rule you are using as justification in regards to disrespect and offence of players can be used in many instances. For instance, in some GSTL, oGsMC went over and banged the both of his enemy player before the game. This is easily both offensive and disrespectful - yet no action was taken."

oGsMC went over and banged the both of his enemy player before the game

LOLOLOLOLO

what an email to send

Thx for the tl;dr version of that "wall" of text. I lol´ed (quietly).
道常無名
baoluvboa
Profile Joined December 2010
743 Posts
December 14 2011 13:34 GMT
#2942
I guess no point in really arguing over this until MLG-GSL clear up the actual seeding behind Providence.

If there was no seed, then GOM's action is completely justifiable
If there was a seed, then it might have been too harsh (from a westerner perspective)
mutantmagnet
Profile Joined June 2009
United States3789 Posts
December 14 2011 13:34 GMT
#2943
On December 14 2011 20:36 Ysellian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 20:30 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
On December 14 2011 20:28 Ysellian wrote:
On December 14 2011 20:20 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
On December 14 2011 20:19 iamke55 wrote:
On December 14 2011 20:17 Klogbert wrote:
On December 14 2011 20:16 Packawana wrote:
On December 14 2011 20:13 Klogbert wrote:
On December 14 2011 20:12 Eviscerador wrote:
On December 14 2011 20:04 NovaTheFeared wrote:
Forfeiting the match would be terrible sportsmanship. Probe rushing is even below that. It's a straight FU to the fans, opponent, and GOM. I'm glad GOM took the issue of professionalism seriously. Someone has to, and it's definitely not Naniwa.

Droping mules or building CC on your defeated enemy base is not? For me that is the middle finger equivalent in videogames.

Double standards everywhere...


Holy crap didn't even think about this...wow does this makes GOM look like hypocrites. I'm officially done with GSL...still.


But were those games actually played out?

This is the main thing, this wasn't a form of BM that was meant to insult the opponent in the way dropping mules is. This is BM in the way that insults the tournament and insults the viewers.

If you play for any team or any sport, you are expected to give your all no matter what your standing is, no matter how far down or far up you are. When it becomes blatantly obvious that you're not playing to win (and reaffirm that post-match), then you are not living to the professionalism that is supposed to be integral in any competition.


You must not really watch sports then...the Indianapolis Colts certainly aren't giving their all. The Chicago Cubs at the end of every year don't even play their stars.

Not sending your best players in a team sport is the equivalent in SC2 of trying out a new build that isn't as refined as your old one.

No it isn't.


That analogy is quite good actually.

No it isn't.

If you are not playing your best players, you are admitting defeat
. You want it to be different because you want to hate on Nani for offending you bullshit sensibilities.

get over yourself.


Except that is where you are wrong. Not playing your best players puts you at a disadvantage similar to a unrefined strategy, but your players on the field are still playing for the win. If players actually roll over and let the opponent just kick their ass the immediate reaction would be that the match was fixed. Look up Dinamo Zagreb for such an example.

and let it be known that Naniwa did NOT micro his probes.


Pretty much an important point.

This is how you probe rush. Nal_Ra vs Grrr


By not microing his probes he was basically saying I'm not going to put any effort into this.

But there is a big misunderstanding here. While Naniwa admitted to throwing the match in the interview after the game he also said he can't play his best if there isn't anything at stake.

On one hand this means he lacked the insight to realize that the stakes isn't just in how well he ranks in a tournament but how much support he gains from fans. He was disrespectful to his fans an fans of Nestea looking forward to a match.

On the other hand his point in relation to GOM is true. GOM hosts tournaments and they need to make those tournaments structured so there are as few games that could reduce the incentive to play.

The only justification GOM has for punishing Naniwa is due to the fact they are building reputation with fans of the players and only GOM has enough leverage to credibly punish Naniwa on behalf of his fans disappointed with his actions.
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
December 14 2011 13:35 GMT
#2944
On December 14 2011 22:30 Shalaiyn wrote:
So a rage-6 pool is fine but a 7 probe rush which can destroy a 6 pool isn't?

Can you stop this kind of nonsense? Probe rush loses to anything, including 6-pool, good bye, thank you.
Zanno
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1484 Posts
December 14 2011 13:35 GMT
#2945
On December 14 2011 22:34 Silidons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 22:29 Brendonious wrote:
Everyone remember to Email and Tweet @GOMTV and @WoWnStarcraft so they know what an unprofitable decision they made

I like how these people have <10 posts. I'm sure you've all bought GSL in the past year and contributed much to the starcraft community. Lol.

i'm starting to wonder if there's some serious sock puppeting going on in this thread
aaaaa
Zlaktarn
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden1 Post
December 14 2011 13:35 GMT
#2946
Felt lucky first when i tuned in to the game to see a great game between NesTea and NaNiwa but turned to a huge disappointment when NaNiwa did what he did. it was like NesTeas chance to get back at him but turned to a laughing matter instead. This just shows that Gsl sets a standard for theire tournament even though its pretty harsh
Moxi
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
708 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 13:35:40
December 14 2011 13:35 GMT
#2947
On December 14 2011 22:30 zanga wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 22:29 NeoSlicerZ wrote:
Wait, i thought the gsl was being held in South korea, not North.

Lol.


User was warned for this post


Oh, you know it is in South.
Xalorian
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada433 Posts
December 14 2011 13:35 GMT
#2948
On December 14 2011 22:32 Xax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 22:27 0800 wrote:
On December 14 2011 22:23 Xax wrote:
On December 14 2011 22:21 Starcraftmazter wrote:
What is most troubling to me, is that most people are completely missing the key issues here.

My email to GOM:

Hello

A few days ago, I purchased the GSL Premium Yearly Ticket (My account email address is the same as this and the same one as my PayPal account for verification).

I am very unhappy with your completely unprofessional decision to punish Naniwa for doing nothing wrong against the rules, quite arbitrarily - while not punishing any Korean player, ever for any sort of "misbehavior". In particular the rule you are using as justification in regards to disrespect and offence of players can be used in many instances. For instance, in some GSTL, oGsMC went over and banged the both of his enemy player before the game. This is easily both offensive and disrespectful - yet no action was taken. This is but one prominent example, and I am not suggesting any action should have been taken; rather I am pointing out the unprofessional arbitrary enforcement of that rule, which seems to be applied against foreigners only.

Furthermore, I find the insulting slur of "Mr Chae" on Naniwa very unprofessional and ill conceived, this along with other previous events clearly shows your bias against non-Korean players and casters.

Overall, I am rather angered by the precedent that this sets, allowing GoMTV to disqualify, remove and otherwise take action against players based entirely on what you believe to be some form of bad play. Looking back at Blizzard Cup, LiquidHero also played very poorly (but unlike Naniwai who showed very impressive games, I would say all of Hero's games were very bad), and his last two games especially were very amateur in nature, as he stopped trying. This is not an objective matter either, and in particular in Hero's game against DRG, he have DRG a win - in a game which *actually mattered* to the outcome of the tournament, whereas the game between Naniwa and Nestea did not. I do not see any action taken again Hero for this? And I am a fan of Hero, but I am merely pointing out the double standards which exists in the GSL with Korean and non-Korean players. I cannot understand why you think the foreign audience doesn't see this - do you take us all for fools?

My question is, where do you draw the line? What gives you the right to draw it arbitrarily so? And at what stage can a player be kicked out for cheesing? Why are certain types of cheese ok (like 6pool) whereas others not? Naniwai could have just as easily 4gated or cannon rushed and lost - all that would have achieved is wasting more of everyone's time. I would argue that in not wasting said time that Naniwai actually has far more respect for viewers and fans than you do, so I find your decision very arbitrary and reckless.
Why for instance was BitbybitPrime not punished using this very same rule? Naniwa works extremely hard, practising more than the vast majority of players (Korean and non-Korean alike) to play the best games for his fans. This is more than I can say about what BitbyBit did - and the same goes for many other players over time. To then be punished and be insulted like so, is extremely unjustifiable. You clearly do not understand that people are all different, and some get quite emotional in some situations.

Next is the issue of MLG seeds into GSL code S. You have now broken your partnership with MLG, as you have failed to keep your end of the bargain. This is a further slap in the face to foreigners and foreign tournaments. Even if Naniwa's seed eventually gets replaced by another foreigner, that doesn't change the fact that you are illegitimising a foreign tournament by taking away it's right to seed a player into GSL Code S, and instead stealing that decision for yourselves. It has also come to my attention that you have deleted comments you have made about revoking Naniwai's code S seed claiming he never had it. This does not exactly add to your credibility, as it is not exactly a secret that he did.
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-program
The rules are stated very clearly, he earned his code S spot in Providence. I am unsure why you would try to claim he did not - again, do you take foreigners for complete idiots?


You must understand, at this stage this is far beyond the Naniwa vs Nestea game. Now the bias of GomTV against foreigners as well as the behaviour of the tournament organisers to do whatever they want regardless of the rules is put in question. Furthermore on that note, you have taken a complete lack of responsibility for designing a tournament system which allows for meaningless games that don't have any result on any outcome.


In conclusion, I am very displeased with this. I have supported the GSL and payed for virtually every season and event single since I first learned about it in 2010. Even these days, I end up defending GomTV from all the bad comments about the stream quality being far worse than MLG and Dreamhack - even on "HD". I really love Tastosis and always tune in to watch them cast regardless of who's playing. But this is really the last straw for me, I cannot possibly support you any longer as it seems to me that you have lost your integrity.

Unless you plan to fully reverse your decision to take Naniwai's code S spot, or hand out any meaningful punishment in general (perhaps you can make it as meaningless as the game for which he was punished?), I request a full refund. If this refund is not given, or this email disregarded, I will take it up with PayPal. As the year 2012 has not even started yet, I am sure there is zero argument against getting a full refund. Lastly, being a long-term supporter, I appreciate this email be passed to some form of management so that my feelings be conveyed to them - as I believe I have made a lot of good arguments, which really deserve to be thought about by the management of the GSL.


Thank You
---


I hope you got your facts straight before sending that email


Naniwa got his seed from MLG and the factual information presented on the Email seems accurate to me.
If you post sentences like that, including a smiley face at the end, you should also spend the time to say why you think what he stated is incorrect, rather than suggesting something and then lacking to provide proof for what you are saying.


Check out the latest information making rounds. Apparently there was a misunderstanding regarding the GSL/MLG exchange. Proof? No Code A seeds and no Korean invites to MLG Providence.

Basically what happened is that they would've given one of the two Code S seeds of January to Naniwa based on his performance all year long, not because of the exchange program. He then disqualified himself from it by showing bad sportsmanship. They did not take anything away from him, Mr Chae just said something publicly in response to the reactions of the Korean community. It seems to have been translated wrongly and started this shitstorm.


What is the difference? He would have got a seed, then got disqualified because of what happened. It's the exact same thing... he is losing a code S spot because of what hapenened.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10811 Posts
December 14 2011 13:35 GMT
#2949
On December 14 2011 22:33 Xalorian wrote:
WE ALL GET THAT WHAT NANIWA DID WAS WRONG!

But seriously, revoking a seed (stop saying that he was not seeded... why on fucking earth would they have done such an annoncement if he was not seeded in the first place? It's ludicrous.) is bullshit. Yes, they should have warned him, and should add a new rules for future tournaments...

But revoking or whatever you call this, over a rule that don't have anything to do whit what happened... this is bullshit.

Seriously, it's true that what he did was wrong... but he don't deserve that punishement for a first offense without warning. Poor Naniwa... working is ass off, in another contry, for nothing. This is heartbreaking.

We should all mail GOMTV, Blizzard and sponsors.


Yeah, we should congratulate them for not supporting naniwas behaviour.
Futarchy
Profile Joined June 2011
Singapore59 Posts
December 14 2011 13:35 GMT
#2950
GOM is likely in breach of a contract with Naniwa by unilaterally terminating the agreement they had for Naniwa to be seeded a Code S spot.

The sole grounds they have to terminate this agreement is the rule that states:

“Warning or disqualification
During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behavior”

However, there are two problems with this rule.

1. This is a tournament rule, which means it applies to the tournament itself. Just because there exists identical rules in separate tournaments does not mean that the breach of a rule in one tournament would entitle the tournament organizer to disqualify the player from a separate tournament in which they have already agreed to accept the player. If Naniwa had been abusive in Code S, then this rule would entitle GOM to disqualify Naniwa from Code S. Since Naniwa's alleged breach of the rule was a breach of Blizzard Cup's rule, then GOM only has the right to disqualify Naniwa from Blizzard Cup.

2. More importantly, there was no breach of this rule at all. Guys, please search "contra proferentem rule" on google. The Contra proferentem rule is a legal doctrine that provides that any ambiguous term in a contract will be construed against the person who introduced it. Hence, any court of law will likely not allow GOM to take such a wide interpretation of this term that would effectively give them the power to unilaterally terminate any contract it has with players.

If we are truly concerned about player's rights, we should support and recognise the legal rights that Naniwa has.
Legace
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden342 Posts
December 14 2011 13:35 GMT
#2951
On December 14 2011 22:30 Mycl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 22:26 Legace wrote:
I am genuinly curious. Lets say, for the sake of the hypothesis, that Naniwa was allowed to forfeit the game -- what is the difference in forfeiting the game before it's played and "forfeiting it ingame"?


If a forfeit happens before you get into the booth it most likely means that the tournament organizers gave the ok and allowed you to forfeit.



Well yeah, thats why I wondered if there had been any difference between forfeiting the game before hand or in game if he where allowed to forfeit the game before it was played.
Elefanto
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland3584 Posts
December 14 2011 13:35 GMT
#2952
On December 14 2011 22:32 Mashmed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 22:30 Elefanto wrote:
On December 14 2011 22:29 Brendonious wrote:
Everyone remember to Email and Tweet @GOMTV and @WoWnStarcraft so they know what an unprofitable decision they made



Yes, they should value profit over the integrity of their tournament.
So that's how you do business today.


They should fire who ever came up with the bracket system.. Games that doesn't matter will never matter. No matter how disquised a dumb strategy is. The sad thing is 80% of the community can't distinguish a walkover build when they see it so if naniwa had gone one base carrier rush people would be like omg he tried and it failed.


You didn't quite get the meaning of this tournament.
It's supposed to be a spectacle were the best show off against each other.
Money isn't the only thing on the line in a tournament. The system was made to create stories, exposure and chances to show of your skill against the very best in as many matches as possible. So many players would sacrifice so much to get the chance to play against Nestea / MMA / Leenock on the same day. Just for the opportunity.

wat
Hubris
Profile Joined November 2010
United States113 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 13:36:15
December 14 2011 13:35 GMT
#2953
Am I the only one reading some the racist, ignorant, and BM posts by people "boycotting" GOM's events feeling happy that these sort of people aren't going to be in the audience? I think I'm more inclined to buy tickets knowing that the fan base should be more mature than usual. I find it ironic many people here acting a fool are just as BM as Naniwa's actions at that, and previous tournies.
Wut?
drinkpepsi
Profile Joined December 2011
United States16 Posts
December 14 2011 13:35 GMT
#2954
On December 14 2011 22:34 Silidons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 22:29 Brendonious wrote:
Everyone remember to Email and Tweet @GOMTV and @WoWnStarcraft so they know what an unprofitable decision they made

I like how these people have <10 posts. I'm sure you've all bought GSL in the past year and contributed much to the starcraft community. Lol.

Giving money to GOM doesn't contribute to the SC2 community. Giving money to GOM doesn't contribute to the SC2 community.Giving money to GOM doesn't contribute to the SC2 community.

I really wish people would realize this.
Vardant
Profile Joined November 2010
Czech Republic620 Posts
December 14 2011 13:36 GMT
#2955
On December 14 2011 22:33 peeeky wrote:
Could someone clear this up for me? Naniwa originally had a code A seed (many times from MLG), but never got the code S by winning a tournament when this seeding system happened. Did his code A seed just get bumped up to code S randomly? I so, I guess things could be worse. As long as he has his code A seed still, I think he'll do fine.

He placed second at Providence. Any guy in the top 3, that isn't Code S is given the spot. Leenock already had his, so Naniwa got his.

Don't believe anyone saying something different. They just popped up out of nowhere quoting a random tweet.
Mirror0423
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States175 Posts
December 14 2011 13:36 GMT
#2956
On December 14 2011 22:31 buldermar wrote:
Putting aside the debate of the punishment of Naniwa, does anyone disagree that GOM should not be hosting a tournament with what they perceive to be the best players in a world and have the structure be so that certain matches has no value in terms of seating/money?

To me, it seems absurdly easy to guaranee that all matches has some kind of value. Can anyone explain the logic behind not having all matches have some value? The decision of letting this situation be possible in the first place appears unprofessional to me - regardless of whether or not the punishment is justifiable.

Showcase of skills? A lot of the times the last couple games of a long "regular season" doesn't matter. World cup's last few games in the group stages don't matter in soccer, nor in the World Baseball Classics. There are "magic numbers" in the regular seasons and once they reach that, the remaining ones don't matter. There are numerous cases where a professional will play it out as a showcase of what a "premier player" can do. At least play a flashy/showy game, just don't throw it is all GOM is asking.
Algol
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden9 Posts
December 14 2011 13:36 GMT
#2957
This is such a bad decision by GOM. Had he just cannon-rushed or used any other super quick cheese no one would have have cared but the end result of the game would have been the same.

In many foreigner tournaments players forfeit games all the time (Stefano 6pools cloud twice in a row at dreamhack, Idra forfeited all his group stage games at IPL). To me this seems like a culture difference between the Korean and foreigner starcraft community. GOM needs to specify rules against this kind of things beforehand, not punishing players who may not even be that familiar with the unspoken "Korean way of a progamer".

To revoke Naniwa's code S spot is more of a spit in the face of the foreigner community by GOM. Naniwa is forced to play a meaningless match, which he at any foreigner tournament would have just forfeited.

Anyone know a good way to reach out to GOM and let them know my/our discontent with this decision?
Pwnographics
Profile Joined January 2011
New Zealand1097 Posts
December 14 2011 13:36 GMT
#2958
On December 14 2011 22:34 SoapSC wrote:
Lol thats such a childish move by GSL and GomTv.

He just did this because THEY let him play an meaningless match wich he refused to play.

So in my opinion MLG > GSL


How is it childish?

You're considering inviting a kid to your party but before hand he bashes the shit out of your brother then you proceed not to invite him to your party.

Sounds pretty legit to me.
ShotgunMike
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden241 Posts
December 14 2011 13:36 GMT
#2959
From now on I demand that GOM force the players to play out all x games in a BOx. Even if a player is at 4-0 in a BO7 I want all 7 games! That's the respectful thing to do!

Joking aside, if GOM decides that this is the most disrespectful thing that has happened and that it cause to remove Nani from competition I get a bit worried. It seems like they are just reading too much into discussions on the different public forums and forget about professionalism themselves. Not a huge Naniwa fan but I still think, based on the small amount of information available to me, that this is wrong.

Hot_Bid: "B10" - ThorZain: "BINGO" - Naniwa: "Apologize! ¤%#¤#&¤% Terran IMBA"
Biane
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia645 Posts
December 14 2011 13:36 GMT
#2960
On December 14 2011 22:33 Zanno wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 22:32 Xax wrote:
On December 14 2011 22:27 0800 wrote:
On December 14 2011 22:23 Xax wrote:
On December 14 2011 22:21 Starcraftmazter wrote:
What is most troubling to me, is that most people are completely missing the key issues here.

My email to GOM:

Hello

A few days ago, I purchased the GSL Premium Yearly Ticket (My account email address is the same as this and the same one as my PayPal account for verification).

I am very unhappy with your completely unprofessional decision to punish Naniwa for doing nothing wrong against the rules, quite arbitrarily - while not punishing any Korean player, ever for any sort of "misbehavior". In particular the rule you are using as justification in regards to disrespect and offence of players can be used in many instances. For instance, in some GSTL, oGsMC went over and banged the both of his enemy player before the game. This is easily both offensive and disrespectful - yet no action was taken. This is but one prominent example, and I am not suggesting any action should have been taken; rather I am pointing out the unprofessional arbitrary enforcement of that rule, which seems to be applied against foreigners only.

Furthermore, I find the insulting slur of "Mr Chae" on Naniwa very unprofessional and ill conceived, this along with other previous events clearly shows your bias against non-Korean players and casters.

Overall, I am rather angered by the precedent that this sets, allowing GoMTV to disqualify, remove and otherwise take action against players based entirely on what you believe to be some form of bad play. Looking back at Blizzard Cup, LiquidHero also played very poorly (but unlike Naniwai who showed very impressive games, I would say all of Hero's games were very bad), and his last two games especially were very amateur in nature, as he stopped trying. This is not an objective matter either, and in particular in Hero's game against DRG, he have DRG a win - in a game which *actually mattered* to the outcome of the tournament, whereas the game between Naniwa and Nestea did not. I do not see any action taken again Hero for this? And I am a fan of Hero, but I am merely pointing out the double standards which exists in the GSL with Korean and non-Korean players. I cannot understand why you think the foreign audience doesn't see this - do you take us all for fools?

My question is, where do you draw the line? What gives you the right to draw it arbitrarily so? And at what stage can a player be kicked out for cheesing? Why are certain types of cheese ok (like 6pool) whereas others not? Naniwai could have just as easily 4gated or cannon rushed and lost - all that would have achieved is wasting more of everyone's time. I would argue that in not wasting said time that Naniwai actually has far more respect for viewers and fans than you do, so I find your decision very arbitrary and reckless.
Why for instance was BitbybitPrime not punished using this very same rule? Naniwa works extremely hard, practising more than the vast majority of players (Korean and non-Korean alike) to play the best games for his fans. This is more than I can say about what BitbyBit did - and the same goes for many other players over time. To then be punished and be insulted like so, is extremely unjustifiable. You clearly do not understand that people are all different, and some get quite emotional in some situations.

Next is the issue of MLG seeds into GSL code S. You have now broken your partnership with MLG, as you have failed to keep your end of the bargain. This is a further slap in the face to foreigners and foreign tournaments. Even if Naniwa's seed eventually gets replaced by another foreigner, that doesn't change the fact that you are illegitimising a foreign tournament by taking away it's right to seed a player into GSL Code S, and instead stealing that decision for yourselves. It has also come to my attention that you have deleted comments you have made about revoking Naniwai's code S seed claiming he never had it. This does not exactly add to your credibility, as it is not exactly a secret that he did.
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-program
The rules are stated very clearly, he earned his code S spot in Providence. I am unsure why you would try to claim he did not - again, do you take foreigners for complete idiots?


You must understand, at this stage this is far beyond the Naniwa vs Nestea game. Now the bias of GomTV against foreigners as well as the behaviour of the tournament organisers to do whatever they want regardless of the rules is put in question. Furthermore on that note, you have taken a complete lack of responsibility for designing a tournament system which allows for meaningless games that don't have any result on any outcome.


In conclusion, I am very displeased with this. I have supported the GSL and payed for virtually every season and event single since I first learned about it in 2010. Even these days, I end up defending GomTV from all the bad comments about the stream quality being far worse than MLG and Dreamhack - even on "HD". I really love Tastosis and always tune in to watch them cast regardless of who's playing. But this is really the last straw for me, I cannot possibly support you any longer as it seems to me that you have lost your integrity.

Unless you plan to fully reverse your decision to take Naniwai's code S spot, or hand out any meaningful punishment in general (perhaps you can make it as meaningless as the game for which he was punished?), I request a full refund. If this refund is not given, or this email disregarded, I will take it up with PayPal. As the year 2012 has not even started yet, I am sure there is zero argument against getting a full refund. Lastly, being a long-term supporter, I appreciate this email be passed to some form of management so that my feelings be conveyed to them - as I believe I have made a lot of good arguments, which really deserve to be thought about by the management of the GSL.


Thank You
---


I hope you got your facts straight before sending that email


Naniwa got his seed from MLG and the factual information presented on the Email seems accurate to me.
If you post sentences like that, including a smiley face at the end, you should also spend the time to say why you think what he stated is incorrect, rather than suggesting something and then lacking to provide proof for what you are saying.


Check out the latest information making rounds. Apparently there was a misunderstanding regarding the GSL/MLG exchange. Proof? No Code A seeds and no Korean invites to MLG Providence.

Basically what happened is that they would've given one of the two Code S seeds of January to Naniwa based on his performance all year long, not because of the exchange program. He then disqualified himself from it by showing bad sportsmanship. They did not take anything away from him, Mr Chae just said something publicly in response to the reactions of the Korean community. It seems to have been translated wrongly and started this shitstorm.
nah

the shitstorm started well before mr. chae said anything at all

i knew immediately when i first heard about this that naniwa would be losing his code s spot so i don't see why anyone is surprised or outraged about this


Cause people are now scrutinizing the finer details the situation to further their argument (both sides including).
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