While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned! - Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM - Comparing people to Hitler - Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum.
On December 14 2011 21:44 NHY wrote: People need to stop saying "Naniwa earned Code S spot."
No he did not.
MLG Providence had no Code S seed. In case you didn't notice, there weren't GSL invites or Code A seeds either. I know some casters were saying thing like that, which is why many people are confused.
He was, however, going be one of 2 foreigners invited for Code S.
Now, GOM has 'uninvited' him.
As it stands, Naniwa can still qualify for Code A like everyone else (*cough* Jinro *cough*)
You know I totally overlooked this. Looked it up on Liquipedia and you're right, there were no GSL invites for Providence and no one was awarded Code A seeds, so it seems like everyone missed this and just assumed Naniwa won a Code S seed.
there were a code s-seed. atleast the commentators said it
Let's say that this is in fact true (which is a notion I firmly believe), shouldn't MLG have sth. to say about this? It kinda defeats the purpose of an exchange-program-agreement if one said doesn't fullfill their end of the deal, which was in fact a way better deal for the Koreans to begin with....
to be honest im astounded that the gsl rules have no provision about intentional losses
seems a pretty unfitting rule they are basing their decision on
nevertheless i believe it is a contractual obligation of any player to compete in a tournament as much as it is the obligation of gom to pay prize money as gom is interested in broadcasting content produced by the players.
due to this breach of naniwas obligations gom had a right to terminate the current contractual relationship pursuant to § 543 and § 546 of the korean civil code even if
On December 14 2011 21:51 Kontys wrote: Okay, let's look at the whole thing from the perspective of fairness.
1: NaNiWa almost-wins MLG providence, earning CODE S spot, goes back to training for a few weeks and gets an invite to a one-off tournament also hosted by the Gretech.
2: At said tournament he has a bad day losing to two cheeses and another due to the balance issues surrounding terran infantry vs protoss gateway units. He is demoralized, flips and throws the last game, which has no effect on his fate in the tournament.
3: Koreans flip for reasons of etiquette breach.
4: NaNiWa is penalized, under a completely arbitrary decision by the gretech corp boss, by having his earlier EARNED achievement revoked.
Honestly, if you aren't going WHAT THE F* Over this, then you can not call yourself a person of decent values.
An ATHLETE was just robbed of money, face and his greatest career opportunity yet, by a completely arbitrary business decision by a corporate business manager.
I mean, it is completely in line with the forced conformity of Korean culture, where everyone has to conform to strict arbitrary molds thought up by old men in fancy suits.. But this is supposed to be a SPORT and NaNiWa is an ATHLETE. You can make the case that he is an entertainer first and an athlete second, and this is definitely how the Gretech Corporation sees it. But that is not something NaNiWa signed up to. As someone said earlier in this thread: Do you really think he would have done that if he knew it could possibly cost him his code S spot?
How can you people possibly support the case that corporate business interest should be allowed to arbitrarily penalize athletes who don't maximize the entertainment value of their performance?
Naniwa was not given the code S seed through PROVIDENCE. There is NO code S seed for MLG PROVIDENCE.
So what is this then?
Just because its on liquipedia doesn't mean its always correct. The GSL-MLG contract doesn't extend into 2012.
On December 14 2011 21:36 boxturtle wrote: Completely justified. If he can't show respect for the money fans paid to see these matches, in the format they were set out, he doesn't deserve his invited spot. I always stayed up late to watch GSL, but that will now change. The anti-GOM reactions have prompted me to show my support by buying a ticket.
This was a player's blatant disregard and complete flouting for the rules coming back to bite him in the butt. Nothing more, nothing less. It's also absurd that the format should be "bad" now, and no one pointed this out before. If someone had pointed this out, people probably would have found a justification for this format such as "hey these are the best players in the world and GOM's going to give us more matches, including the Naniwa v Nestea centerpiece."
The people using sports comparisons to support Nani are way off base. If you paid money for a season ticket and watched a game where a team sat down on the field because the match "didn't matter" would you think it was "funny?"
If anyone thinks that refusing to buy a GSL ticket because of this action alone will help them prove a point, they can try thinking about what would happen if they did nothing and showed that any match, any anticipated event, could be flouted by an angry player in a bad condition. Athletes don't do this, and if E-sports is going to be anything but a fetish-y footnote in the internet age section of a history book, actions like this are necessary.
I have a feeling that no one that's supporting Nani right now actually bought a ticket.
I hope Mr. Chae reads this (I know he has posted on these forums before) and understands that some people support him, with our wallets as well as our words.
Great first post! I agree with the sentiment, in fact, there are very few forum veterans that seem to be posting in favour of Nani, and that's probably because people that actually compete in tournaments know they themselves wouldn't act like Naniwa did.
I completely agree with this post, as well as those saying that it's completely unprofessional. Footballers who sit down and don't play actually have something to complain about, Naniwa didn't.
Also agreeing. Too much nonsense in this thread as is. Need to highlight the better argument.
agree with the post, the agreement, the next agreement and the one after that
On December 14 2011 21:20 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:18 Lysanias wrote: A rule is a rule, if it says so in there rulebook then it's simple. I see no reason for 5000 posts.
It doesn't say so in the rule book. They basically made some shit up and used that because they knew half of the people would blindly accept it because their favorite little whiny pros did.
GomTV is a private company, without knowing if there was a contract between Naniwa and GomTV and the details of that contract, GomTV can do whatever the fuck they want. Ignoring rules and technicalities, I think what GomTV did was ethically right and I support their decision.
If you look at it from a business perspective, you have to understand Korea is still their biggest audience and easiest way to monetise. Without Korean support GomTV would die very quickly. Again I don't have the facts and numbers but I trust GomTV to know their bottom line.
I support their decision 100%.
The lack of integrity from GOMTV is astounding, if they are doing this because of pressure from the Korean fan and player base. Like it or not, Starcraft 2 is an international esport. If anything this shows how racist Koreans are.
You're an idiot if you think this is a race issue. A korean would have been punished just as much, if not more.
I don't think that is true at all. They are so bloodthirsty for revenge on the foreigner who beat Nestea not only once but TWICE.
Naniwa and Nestea shouldn't have even played that game in the first place, it was completely insignificant and had no ramifications on the tournament.
I didn't really find it a big deal, and I'm a little bit disgusting that Gom took his Code S seed away for that. I'm definitely not buying a premium ticket for the first season, most of the reason I would have bought one was to see Naniwa, HuK and any other foreigners. But if Gom can't handle international culture and behaviors, they shouldn't even allow foreigners to play. Not everybody was born and raised in an asian culture that is more introverted compared to others, and many foreign players were made famous from their BM and antics. It's part of the entertainment factor.
It's NOT fun to watch Koreans just say "I will try to play my best games," and after they lose say "I did not play up to my standards, I will do better next time." There is zero emotion and I don't find that engaging at all. If anything, Gom should embrace Naniwa's antics. More BM, more antics, more viewers.
On December 14 2011 21:51 Kontys wrote: Okay, let's look at the whole thing from the perspective of fairness.
1: NaNiWa almost-wins MLG providence, earning CODE S spot, goes back to training for a few weeks and gets an invite to a one-off tournament also hosted by the Gretech.
2: At said tournament he has a bad day losing to two cheeses and another due to the balance issues surrounding terran infantry vs protoss gateway units. He is demoralized, flips and throws the last game, which has no effect on his fate in the tournament.
3: Koreans flip for reasons of etiquette breach.
4: NaNiWa is penalized, under a completely arbitrary decision by the gretech corp boss, by having his earlier EARNED achievement revoked.
Honestly, if you aren't going WHAT THE F* Over this, then you can not call yourself a person of decent values.
An ATHLETE was just robbed of money, face and his greatest career opportunity yet, by a completely arbitrary business decision by a corporate business manager.
I mean, it is completely in line with the forced conformity of Korean culture, where everyone has to conform to strict arbitrary molds thought up by old men in fancy suits.. But this is supposed to be a SPORT and NaNiWa is an ATHLETE. You can make the case that he is an entertainer first and an athlete second, and this is definitely how the Gretech Corporation sees it. But that is not something NaNiWa signed up to. As someone said earlier in this thread: Do you really think he would have done that if he knew it could possibly cost him his code S spot?
How can you people possibly support the case that corporate business interest should be allowed to arbitrarily penalize athletes who don't maximize the entertainment value of their performance?
Naniwa was not given the code S seed through PROVIDENCE. There is NO code S seed for MLG PROVIDENCE.
So what is this then?
liquipedia editors fucking up.
its a huge ass confusion for the ones not involved too you know.
I think this is pretty crystal clear, highest placing player without Code S status, will be awarded Code S status.
Or, wait, don't tell me, they only award it to people they LIKE (or mr Chae thinks is going to bring in many viewers), again on arbitrary business interest standards.
Care to address the other points? Arbitrarily judging athletes who are depending on this stuff for their income is A-OK?
Feel sorry for Naniwa but at the same time i can understand it altho I absolutley dont agree with it. Was gonna buy a season ticket but now i wont. This cause I wanted to follow naniwa, not to spite GOM. But as people previously posted;
On December 14 2011 18:52 purpose wrote: Tbh fuck korea. In bw korea could dominate due to no foreign scen really. But in SC2 the biggest tourneys and money are outside korea even though the best players still are koreans.
But I am getting tired off how touchy they are, everything need to be so polite, mannerd etc, its just ridicilous. MLG, NASL, DH, IPL etc is enough. Korea can play by themself or start accepting that everybody does not agree on everything they do.
Naniwa probe rushed, buhu get over it, it was not the end of the world and it is not killing esport. If it was, Idra would have killed it long time ago!!
Yeah I hate other cultures too. They all must be the same.
They have their own values and when a foreigner comes over to that country, sometimes they have to learn the hard way.
If a football team walked onto a pitch in front of thousands of their fans and kicked 5 own goals and didn't come out for the second half, I don't they would take it as well as some people are taking Naniwa's antics.
Stop acting childish. Play the game you love. I'm sure he doesn't probe rush when he's lost 10 game on ladder in a row.
Teams in almost all sports will play second string if their season is already over which is basically saying you don't care about winning or putting up the best game.
yea except the second stringers are put in there to gain experience. Naniwa threw the game. It's like the equivalent of broadcasting a fullhouse Bulls vs Lakers game only to have Kobe throw a tantrum and the Lakers having to forfeit after 5mins.
..Actually a better comparision would be the Lakers passing the ball to Kobe every play so he can shoot from half-court
"No baned. it's Misunderstanding! NaNi is Missed the opportunity to Code S."
That's not a misunderstanding. The effect of it is he's not playing Code S anymore. Ban/Missed opportunity/removal... Whatever. Call it what you like. The semantics argument isn't working any better than their twisted, strained attempt to bring his conduct within the ambit of their existing ruleset.
"Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter. It is official that Naniwa is given a punishment"
Sorry but doesn't anyone else find this ironic considering Mr Chae invited IdrA and Sen Free Code S Spots for More Viewers?(Obviously)?
Flagrant racism from GOM, nothing more to it really. It's kind of disgusting that things like this can happen, but Eastern countries don't have the breadth of our modern equal rights institution. In a few years, when people finally get experienced enough with SC2 so that being an SC1 veteran doesn't count as much, I suspect the balance of power will shift to the US/EU, where nobody will be banned from tournaments for their skin color.
On December 14 2011 21:56 xBillehx wrote: People need to stop saying "Naniwa earned Code S spot."
No he did not.
MLG Providence had no Code S seed. In case you didn't notice, there weren't GSL invites or Code A seeds either. I know some casters were saying thing like that, which is why many people are confused.
He was, however, going be one of 2 foreigners invited for Code S.
Now, GOM has 'uninvited' him.
As it stands, Naniwa can still qualify for Code A like everyone else (*cough* Jinro *cough*)
I feel as though this needs to be repeated multiple times because a lot of the people that are so upset about this think that Nani is being revoked of a spot he got from MLG.
If Nani really didn't have a Code S spot then why did Chae feel the need to say that it was being revoked. Seems a little sketchy. Maybe he should have tried harder in his game but really, there was according to Mr. Chae, nothing in it for him anyway. If there is nothing to be gained, why try your hardest or even try at all? It is a complete waste of time. Since there was no code S spot being revoked I don't see why they had to say anything other than to be a giant ass and insult someone since it didn't matter anyway. That's like saying well "Well, I was going to give you this cookie if you do such and such but since you didn't you don't get it. Well, actually, I was never going to give you the cookie anyway." WTF.
On December 14 2011 21:51 Kontys wrote: Okay, let's look at the whole thing from the perspective of fairness.
1: NaNiWa almost-wins MLG providence, earning CODE S spot, goes back to training for a few weeks and gets an invite to a one-off tournament also hosted by the Gretech.
2: At said tournament he has a bad day losing to two cheeses and another due to the balance issues surrounding terran infantry vs protoss gateway units. He is demoralized, flips and throws the last game, which has no effect on his fate in the tournament.
3: Koreans flip for reasons of etiquette breach.
4: NaNiWa is penalized, under a completely arbitrary decision by the gretech corp boss, by having his earlier EARNED achievement revoked.
Honestly, if you aren't going WHAT THE F* Over this, then you can not call yourself a person of decent values.
An ATHLETE was just robbed of money, face and his greatest career opportunity yet, by a completely arbitrary business decision by a corporate business manager.
I mean, it is completely in line with the forced conformity of Korean culture, where everyone has to conform to strict arbitrary molds thought up by old men in fancy suits.. But this is supposed to be a SPORT and NaNiWa is an ATHLETE. You can make the case that he is an entertainer first and an athlete second, and this is definitely how the Gretech Corporation sees it. But that is not something NaNiWa signed up to. As someone said earlier in this thread: Do you really think he would have done that if he knew it could possibly cost him his code S spot?
How can you people possibly support the case that corporate business interest should be allowed to arbitrarily penalize athletes who don't maximize the entertainment value of their performance?
Naniwa was not given the code S seed through PROVIDENCE. There is NO code S seed for MLG PROVIDENCE.
So what is this then?
liquipedia editors fucking up.
its a huge ass confusion for the ones not involved too you know.
What about MLG and their casters? I'm pretty sure they announced it too.
EPT
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