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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 14 2011 21:49 kcbgoku wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:34 Phobbers wrote:
He took his hands OFF the keyboard, ZERO EFFORT. For someone who payed to watch that game, I was pretty offended. I know 100% there was situation when a player made his army, pressed a-move on opponent's base and left his booth. How did his opponent feel? I'm not sure if he was disqualified or punished but I doubt it. Would you be offended by this? Cuz I'd love it. 6 probe is unwinnable? As far as I know they regenerate shield "a bit faster" than drones regenerate health so it is theoreticly possible to win that with godlike micro i think.
yes its possible to win. but is it possible to win when u right click a drone and not micro? ok i dont think so.
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On December 14 2011 21:42 NGrNecris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:38 Biane wrote:On December 14 2011 21:35 Hopelessnoob wrote:
next time all ceremonies will be banned too. This is disrespectful to all of the teammates of the person being BM and his family. This is abusive and should be banned. If the ceremony involves stripping to their boxers, dancing half naked, running into the sea, throwing ice cream sticks into the audience, maybe, eventually But where do we draw the line? How do we even decide if someone is doing something abusive and disrespectful? Its really subjective
The slippery slope argument is such a cop-out of an debate. Rules can't cover everything, and compiling all the evidence here it all points towards naniwa throwing the match which is unsportsmanlike conduct.
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On December 14 2011 21:55 jojo311 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:54 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 14 2011 21:53 jojo311 wrote:
GUYS, you missed a point.
Naniwa was not confirmed for Code S spot. (as MLG Providence had nothing with the Code S spot. )
how is that called revoked??
The truth is just that Nani did not get the spot and he can still qualify GSL for the next season.
HE IS NOT BANNED.
Its the same gosh damn thing getting un-invited for his 'Earned' Code S Spot is essentially the same thing as revoked. HE did not earn it.
He would have gotten the invite based on his performance in the MLG if this hadn't have happend. That to me would mean he "earned it"
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On December 14 2011 21:58 tombola wrote:
I really had hopes that after Artosis said: "Don't get behind the players, get behind the tournament", people would take this piece of advice. Naniwa showed unprofessional behaviour and got punished for it, it's as simple as that.
I'm shocked that a caster who gets paid by the tournaments and not the players would say that.
And I bet it's all because of his "love for Esports" too...
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On December 14 2011 21:56 Nadarath wrote:
Well i just thought that:
- If Naniwa did most stupid thing in situation he found himself vs Nestea match
- GOMTv just made most stupid decision they could to punish Naniwa. If they really need to punish him there was at least dozens of better and more respectfull decisions.
Also to add Mr.Chae is a money loving monkey who just invited Idra based on his popularity to Code S. Not on his performance results (No offense to Idra - but lets be honest he did not perform well in past month)
Actually calling Mr Chae a money loving monkey is a bit harsh. He/Gom did open the GOM house for foreigners, hire more casters to mention a few
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its good to always have standard, nice job GOM. just ignore this "i won't buy next gsl ticket " or "i will never watch gsl again" haters gonna hate.
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On December 14 2011 21:51 Kontys wrote:
Okay, let's look at the whole thing from the perspective of fairness.
1: NaNiWa almost-wins MLG providence, earning CODE S spot, goes back to training for a few weeks and gets an invite to a one-off tournament also hosted by the Gretech.
2: At said tournament he has a bad day losing to two cheeses and another due to the balance issues surrounding terran infantry vs protoss gateway units. He is demoralized, flips and throws the last game, which has no effect on his fate in the tournament.
3: Koreans flip for reasons of etiquette breach.
4: NaNiWa is penalized, under a completely arbitrary decision by the gretech corp boss, by having his earlier EARNED achievement revoked.
Honestly, if you aren't going WHAT THE F* Over this, then you can not call yourself a person of decent values.
An ATHLETE was just robbed of money, face and his greatest career opportunity yet, by a completely arbitrary business decision by a corporate business manager.
I mean, it is completely in line with the forced conformity of Korean culture, where everyone has to conform to strict arbitrary molds thought up by old men in fancy suits.. But this is supposed to be a SPORT and NaNiWa is an ATHLETE. You can make the case that he is an entertainer first and an athlete second, and this is definitely how the Gretech Corporation sees it. But that is not something NaNiWa signed up to. As someone said earlier in this thread: Do you really think he would have done that if he knew it could possibly cost him his code S spot?
How can you people possibly support the case that corporate business interest should be allowed to arbitrarily penalize athletes who don't maximize the entertainment value of their performance?
Naniwa was not given the code S seed through PROVIDENCE. There is NO code S seed for MLG PROVIDENCE. He was originally going to be invited to fill one of the sponsorship seeds GOM sets out for the 2012 season. After his behavior, GOM has EVERY right to deny him his spot, because he did not EARN it.
Sc2 is a spectator sport. GOM basically PAYS you to come to their events, which is especially the case with the blizzard cup as everyone invited gets paid. They pay you so that spectators can watch you play. By probe rushing without putting your hands on the keyboard, you are essentially robbing GOM of the full services they are paying you for. Once again, GOM pays you to come play so that spectators can have an enjoyable experience. Its implied that you should not only give your best effort, but at the very least PLAY every game. A similar example would be if you were contracted to build a home and you don't include a roof. You are not upholding your end of the bargain. A service industry functions upon a mutual agreement by BOTH parties. Naniwa didn not uphold his end. As a result he deserves to be punished.
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I wonder what would happen if Naniwa got really fucking pissed and just smashed everyone in both code A, and then S, only to probe rush 4 times in the finals. XD
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Just sad. I like Naniwa. I see the passion in him. I like his honesty.
He needs a good coach, not this.
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On December 14 2011 21:56 xBillehx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:44 NHY wrote:
People need to stop saying "Naniwa earned Code S spot."
No he did not.
MLG Providence had no Code S seed. In case you didn't notice, there weren't GSL invites or Code A seeds either.
I know some casters were saying thing like that, which is why many people are confused.
He was, however, going be one of 2 foreigners invited for Code S.
Now, GOM has 'uninvited' him.
As it stands, Naniwa can still qualify for Code A like everyone else (*cough* Jinro *cough*) You know I totally overlooked this. Looked it up on Liquipedia and you're right, there were no GSL invites for Providence and no one was awarded Code A seeds, so it seems like everyone missed this and just assumed Naniwa won a Code S seed.
there were a code s-seed. atleast the commentators said it
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GSL-MLG_Exchange_Program
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On December 14 2011 21:54 Vari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:52 pezit wrote:On December 14 2011 21:47 pookadin wrote:On December 14 2011 21:44 Psychobabas wrote:On December 14 2011 21:40 pookadin wrote:On December 14 2011 21:38 Psychobabas wrote:
So, can I ask for a refund from GOM or what. So you buy GSL ticket for a player like naniwa? What do you do when he gets kicked out after round 32 every tourney? You just dont watch for 4 weeks? Sounds like a stupid move anyway... Not really, it's just my way of retaliating against GOM by asking for my money back, which I will fully pursue. Of course I would watch all players but in this case, I'll just stick to the free-stream. GOM was wrong and I will ask for a full refund, which should be done due to consumer rights etc etc We shall see. So...you are boycotting GOMTV but you are still going to use the free stream? Whuuuuu? And you people call GOM Hypocrites? Consumer Rights? LOL I think you will promptly find that you are not entitled to anything because GOMTV makes no assurances that assholes wont be kicked out of their league when they act like brats. I'll find other sites that uploads HQ VOD's and share them amongst my friends instead of paying for HQ pass, just because I'm disgusted by GOMTV doesn't mean I can't enjoy the games. so they are providing something you want and now you have an excuse to not spend money so disgusted that you are gonna spend time to find other sites so you can watch gom's content I'm sure you were planning to pay all along though. yup.
I do pay for things I like, you can find almost all media for free nowadays but most people still chose to pay for some of it because they want to support it, GOMTV lost that support from many people today.
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On December 14 2011 21:58 vthree wrote:
Let's look at this from another perspective... What if Naniwa and Nestea played their normal game and Khaldor just refused to cast because the game was 'meaningless'? Don't you think he would have been fired?
Khaldors sole job is to be an entertainer and as such he is paid an actual fee of sorts to come and entertain at an hourly rate, not doing so could get him into legal trouble. Naniwas sole job is to be a competitor, and his actual fee is entirely based upon his results in the competition which he can relatively control by his performance. Those are two entirely different things.
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On December 14 2011 21:58 vthree wrote:
Let's look at this from another perspective... What if Naniwa and Nestea played their normal game and Khaldor just refused to cast because the game was 'meaningless'? Don't you think he would have been fired?
Naniwa doesn't work for GomTV
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I feel bad for Naniwa because I'm sure if he knew that this would happen he would have played a straight up game and done a less silly rush to finish it quickly. An in base 2 gate would have done the trick. But at the same time I think it's not completely unreasonable what Gom did. Naniwa clearly had no motivation to play that game and decided to essential fix the result by probe rushing and sitting there watching his units die. It's too bad Protoss can't six pool because then people would have called it a legitimate game.
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On December 14 2011 21:14 ReboundEU wrote:
Good thing i didn't buy the GSL season ticket....i will never support competitions that take childish and racist decisions based on personal grudges and to please certain players (like nestea). No fairness..no honor...no respect...just insults.
If i want to watch the best of the best i will wait for MLG...not GSL. I evaded the bigest waste of money i could have possibly made. They won...they wanted a "korean wonderland" and they got it. Good luck with your viewer database.
1. It's not a racist decision.
2. What personal grudge, what pleasing nestea? Read the korean players twitter messages, they are all confused how naniwa could do something so stupid. Korean players think it's dumb and disrespectful, and I think most people here on TL agree.
2. To be perfectly honest, if GOM could get the viewership BW had, they wouldn't give a crap about pleasing foreigners like you regardless. In SC, Korea is what matters. Foreigners are interesting and some can compete, but overall, it has been korean wonderland for ages.
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On December 14 2011 21:57 Vari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:55 Confuzzled wrote:
Well that's completely retarded, and another reason for me to not watch GSL. When IdrA ragequit vs Jinros bunker-wallin and
6pooled in GSL he didn't get shit or anything, but in a game where nothing mattered and Naniwa acted like a child (it was a
dick move but not a huge dick move) it all of a sudden becomes a shitstorm? Don't really know how I feel about GOMs decisionmaking behind this, It'll just impact the scene negatively, a warning would have been better. idra gave up fast in a game he actually had been trying to win nani never even tried to give the illusion that he cared about a game these people paid him to play and were televising.
Idra 6 pooled on a 2 player map vs MC, who always scouts early, it's basically a guaranteed loss.
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"He would have gotten the invite based on his performance in the MLG if this hadn't have happend. That to me would mean he "earned it"
the seed goes to a performing player. that attitude tells me he does not earn it
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I personally think the removal of naniwa is fully justified. However, my main problem is the nature of the other Code S invites; where they are just inviting popular players with no concrete reasons behind them. Everyone knew Nani earned his spot from MLG, but the other invites are just for popular players who GOM favour.
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EPT
